Hi Tom and all.
TO OUR PLACE FOR THE 2ND YEAR.
I just wanted to call in and get a coffee before I have to do some things, really great to see so many in.I will do what I have to do now, have a read and will be back later.
So Ruth a round for all please
Pete.
Howdy again Tom and friends! I wondered if I might ruffle the feathers (which is so unlike me) of manager Lars for posting Pennsy stuff on NYC week, but the boss loves Pennsy, RDCs, CP and CN. It only makes sense to please the boss on this particular day. For example, here's a picture of the 4877 I didn't know I had!
Not to worry though. My next posts will be all about NYC. You shall see. I surely enjoyed your several locomotive pix, by the way.
Howabout that Rob dropping by today with some mighty fine submissions? Now I am finally ready for the 6th ... or was it my 7th toast?
Here's to "Our Place", Tom, the barmaids, the patrons, the critters, the free drinks and parking, and did I mention the barmaids? May your glasses be always full and the coal scuttle never empty.
A construction worker walks into a bar. He's a rather large, menacing guy. He orders a beer, chugs it back, and bellows, "All you guys on this side of the bar are a bunch of idiots!" A sudden silence descends.After a moment he asks "Anyone got a problem with that?" The silence lengthens.He then chugs back another beer and growls, "And all you guys on the other side of the bar are all scum!" Once again, the bar is silent.He looks around belligerently and roars, "Anyone got a problem with that?" A lone man gets up from his stool unsteadily and starts to walk towards the man."You got a problem, buddy?" "Oh no; I'm just on the wrong side of the bar."
Hello Tom and all in.
I'll have a pint of Mild and some food please.
Incidentally Pete - I had a pint of the ‘new' fake Kimberley Mild the other day - tastes like a totally different drink - if Greene King brewers have tried to match the taste now they have closed the local brewery all I can say is they have not done a very good job of it! So the flavour of the real thing is just a memory!
Great GCR entry by the way - loved the windcutter story - and I have friends here with fond memories of the Grimsby Express Fish service just as you describe! I imagine they left quite a smell in their wake!
Here's an Insul Fish Van :
http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/wagon/87720.html
And here are some great posters too
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10172611&wwwflag=2&imagepos=5
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10174227&wwwflag=2&imagepos=7
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10176123&wwwflag=2&imagepos=15
Well, plenty of contributions since my last visit, and good to see the return of some regulars (Rob, you'll have to scroll back a few pages for the story of a local tram rescued from being part of a house for 70 years and being scheduled for restoration).
I've not time to comment on all the good stuff but noticed a couple of points.
Eric - like Pete said, the UK Diesel Hydraulic design was based on the German V200 diesel you pictured, but I also think this was one of a number of derivative designs from what must have been a successful German product. I'm sure that Norwegian State Railways had their version too.
Here is a web link to what I assume is a Hungarian version of the type.
http://www.nohab-gm.com/en/en05_2.html
James - you asked about ‘bhp' the bhp stands for Brake Horse Power. Quite why we use this I'm not sure!
Pete - I spotted you had flagged up a train ferry question for me too. I think the cross channel train ferry was withdrawn immediately the channel tunnel opened (although hazardous cargoes can not go in the tunnel for safety reasons so presumably they got lost to road and are trucked on Roll On / Off vehicle ferries).
What I'm not sure of is if there are any operating on the north sea. I don't think there are, but I did read talk of re-introducing one not so long ago - I presume this was to compete with the channel Tunnel who are sadly taking relatively negligible quantities of freight across the channel - mainly it would seem as the operating company seems to set expensive tariffs and market forces don't seem to be working to get them to reduce these costs.
Couple of thought provoking articles here
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/articles/rail/559.shtml
http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/articles/standard/june14,05.shtml
Anyway - time for another trip report - this time to East Anglia.
Eat Anglia is a largely rural area to the north east of London facing Europe across the southern part of the North Sea. It is known for its picturesque villages and coastal towns, some connected for many years with the fishing industry.
I was able to travel south from the Midlands on one of GNER's 125 mph diesel high speed trains (these are 30 year old machines still working in top link service - see
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/art/2007/03/classics_of_everyday_design_no_10.html
)
however, this was one of the first ones to emerge from the works with a new power unit and fully fitted out with a new interior - which was quite high quality (and a better refurbishment than has previously happened on the passenger cars of this design).
See:
http://www.gner.co.uk/GNER/PressCentre/PressReleases06/âMALLARD+STYLEâ+IMPROVEMENTS+FOR+GNER+HSTs.htm
However, due to some technical difficulties the train was running 30 minutes late when I caught it, and I'd planned to take breakfast in the dining car but when I boarded the staff said they were fully stocked with food but the cooking equipment was not working so the dining car was closed. I took a seat in the last car (which is supposed to be mobile phone free) to find a handful of engineers from the company that had handled the refurbishment on board to assess the journey. Most annoyingly they seemed to have no intention of respecting the ‘mobile free' nature of the car and persisted in talking on their phones for the duration of the journey. All in all a poor show - and quite frankly I was surprised that it had been considered acceptable to put the cars into passenger service with technical problems that meant the dining car could not operate and the train could not keep to time!
A complaint to the management elicited a modest compensation voucher.
Anyway - headed out to East Anglia the next day (the Saturday) on a modern diesel distributed power unit (which was heading for the Suffolk Coast of England - an area to the north east of London, and incidentally - a big area where USAAF bases would have been back in the last war). We headed to Sudbury where we transferred on to a single car diesel unit for the truncated line towards Marks Tey.
These single car units are like a modern equivalent of an RDC (but with much less style) - some pictures of the design are here.
http://www.coxster.co.uk/railphotography/dieselunits/class153/index.htm
Before getting to our alighting point we crossed over this massive brick built viaduct (one of the largest brick structures in England I learn) :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/articles/2006/02/07/chappel_viaduct_feature.shtml
and some good pics here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/image_galleries/chappel_viaduct_gallery.shtml?2
hard to believe this tiny branch line warranted such a massive building, but back in the day this was an important cross country route serving east Anglia - but this is predominantly an agricultural area so when the cartage of farm goods moved to the roads from the 1950s onwards the line was in trouble and much of it was closed. I suspect it played an important role in the last war however, given the important network of air bases throughout eastern England.
At the station is the relatively small, but well done East Anglian Railway Museum, They have restored the station buildings, and the goods shed, and have a number of items on display, as well as a restoration shed where they were working on some very old passenger cars plus other bits and pieces. We had a good look round and more info is here:
http://www.earm.co.uk/index.php
Following this we set out on a 9 mile hike, which was over fairly undemanding terrain, with a couple of good pub stops en route.
The return journey to London was made on one of the new Siemens German Built class 360s 25 kv Electric MU
http://www.thejetsetter.co.uk/hpbimg/rails4/360113ipswich.jpg
This was quite comfortable (although it is designed for commuter traffic with 5 seats across the car body width so could be cramped at busy time), although it did occur to me how filthy the British public can be, since this train was strewn with the days litter inside it, and the toilet area was bedecked in graffiti, yet the train can't have been more than a year or so old. Very disappointing. The design has good large windows though to help enjoy the view (although it was dark by the time we made this journey).
Anyway - all good wishes
DL
G'day Gents!
Surely cannot recall a morning as active as this since our 1st Year Anniversary! Great to see the outpouring from our staunch supporters. I suspect we'll see a couple of others as the day passes on, but for now, a huge THANX to all who have come aboard for our 2nd Year Anniversary Celebration!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 Shane at 8:29 AM today: A most appreciated Part Deux to the Boston & Albany (NYC) narrative. An equal, fer sure, fer sure, to what we saw yesterday. The comments along the way surely echo my own, for as I read through the piece, it was almost as if I were there too!
Many thanx for the quarters, round and greeting!
BK at 9:32 AM today: What a rare treat! Two for the price of one as Bud ‘n Lydia graced our establishment to help usher in the festivities for the 3rd year of "Our" Place.
You have a way with "woids" my friend and I think we all know they are from the heart, for you're not the sort to mince "woids" and I'm happy to call you FRIEND!
By the by, you are absolutely "right on" with the "credit" to barn weevil Doug for those animations and Pix. He has been quite the innovator from the time he walked through those doors to present times. Nice of you to pick up on it!
Good to see Lydia over there at the table overlooking the mainlines. An equal in radiance to Ruth. A most fortunate guy to have her, BK. Ahhhhh, then there's MY Cindy . . . <grin>
Many thanx for the kind words and TOAST!
Doug at 10:11 AM today: A 2nd visit and some excellent "doctored" photos too! <grin> Oh IF only I could really be THAT tall!! Not really - for there's a saying that I live by, "Tis better to have loved a short, than never to have loved aTALL!"
Loved the GG1 piece and you absolutely DO have a "way" ‘round the "theme" and so forth, eh <grin> Don't sweat the small stuff, for I - and only I - have the key to the <tweeter box> safely tucked away . . . . now where in the world????? Oh well . . . <grin>
Lars at 10:26 AM today: The Manager speaks and has done so with great gusto!
Most pleased to see you aboard and in spite of the cold ‘n rainy day in Gotham, very glad you've maintained your high spirits too. Think the Mets game will be rained out?? Noted the Braves are 7-1 whereas the bad boys from Queens are now 5-3. Awwww, what the heck, it's far too early for apoplexy, eh <grin>
My Cards are 5-4 and tied for 1st . . . whowudduathunk it after your bad boys thumped us last week <grin>
Go easy on our barn weevil, okay He's got "your number" and you're playing right into his paws hands claws feelers (whatever!!).
A super fine TOAST from you and some "neat" NYC steam loco's to add to the "theme" for the WEEK. (When did we begin THAT????) <grin>
Rob at 10:27 AM ‘n 10:47 AM ‘n 10:53 AM today: The trolleyMAN returneth with some "good stuff"! Appreciate the THREE TOASTS and I may have to think just a tad about that last part of the 3rd one . . . hmmmmm. But I know where you're coming from - nice guy that you are!
All three contributions most appreciated but the best of ‘em all is having you back amongst us.
Now, let's get THIS straight: I NEVER will use THAT "RobISM" - mind's nose, indeed! <yikes> <grin>
Always good to see the Port Maitland, Ontario service "stuff"! Came thru just a bit on the "light side" - kinda faded, but was able to make it out. Fits well with NYC, fer sure, fer sure!
Did you catch any of that Vancouver game last night?? Four over times - now that's something else indeed. Yeah, I know, the "record" is six back in 1936 when Detroit beat the Montreal Maroons in 6 overtimes. But still . . . . Also, Ottawa put it to the Penquins. Love to see at least one north of the border team make it to the finals. Just doesn't seem right if they don't.
Also noted that the gals
Hi again Tom and friends! Seems like I can't find my way off the barstool today, and who would want to? All my friends are here! I see that Peter made it in. Quite the post from friend DL in the UK. Lots of commentary, stories and links in that post. Loved the Chappel bridge. I read an article in our local rag today concerning the construction of temporary tracks over one of our city highways, at the incredible bargain of $18 million. This doesn't include the design fee of an additional $4 million! Has the world gone nuts?
Glad the boss is enjoying the posts and activity so far today. Let's enjoy the moment and see what the future brings when it gets here.
And now ... especially manager Lars, here is part I of a NYC article from "Rails Northwest" :
Concepts of Water Level Steam by Bert Pennypacker
Boston & Albany H-5j 2-8-2, #1200 backs a ballast train along the westbound main, on the east side of town, Worchester, Mass. On 8/23/49. Photo by Philip R. Hastings
NYC's superb level-graded main lines from the Atlantic Seaboard to the Midwest afforded a racetrack where the name of the game was horse-power and speed, yet the paradox of conservatism and small engines prevented the realization of a truly super railroad.
Nearly five decades ago up in the broad and scenic Hudson River valley, the late afternoon sun of a humid Summer day hung suspended in the far Western sky like a ball of blazing fire, its diminishing rays glinting weakly upon the handsome, esthetically perfect features of a mighty, thundering J1 Hudson charging along the East riverbank, her madly whirling 79-inch drivers violently prancing siderods affording the long-legged, long striding pace of a sleek and supple thoroughbred dashing down the home-stretch. She was 20 miles out of Harmon and headed north for she had a long way to go and an exacting schedule to maintain with the 13 heavyweight Pullmans of the New York Central's flagship, the celebrated Twentieth Century Limited. From the electric-to-steam engine change point at Harmon, located 32.7 miles north of Grand Central Terminal, the indefatigable 4-6-4's were dispatched on long distance through runs covering five divisions and 581.3 miles in 10 hours and 20 minutes at an average speed of 56.3 m.p.h. to reach Collinwood (near Cleveland) Ohio where a Cleveland Union Terminal 2-C-C-2 P1 electric took over for the next 13 miles to Linndale. From here, a second Hudson ran the remaining 347.2 miles to Chicago's LaSalle Street Station.
The Central's (and America's) first Hudson type, No. 5200, which was created largely through the design expertise of the late Paul W. Kiefer, Chief Engineer of Motive Power, rolled from Alco's Schenectady, N.Y. plant upon a propitious February 14, 1927 and by 1931 there were 205 J1's storming along the main lines plus an additional 20 J2's with smaller 75-inch drivers on the Boston and Albany. These were the days when all roads led to New York and 70 to 80 Hudson-powered limiteds roared up and down the multiple-tracked Hudson Division each day. By 1932, the Century's running time to Chicago was cut from 20 to 18 hours and the long through engine runs to Collinwood tested the endurance of the J-1's high capacity boiler as 14-inch piston valves fed huge gulps of steam to 25X28-inch cylinders and the exhausts blended into a steady roar at 80 m.p.h. or better.
A pair of NYC K-11e Pacifics, #4552 and #4549, highball Adirondack Division Train #15 up the Lake Placid Branch toward Lake Placid. Photo taken at Saranac Lake, NY on 9/3/49 by Philip R. Hastings
But there was much more involved in getting her over the road than pulling the throttle and feeding her firebox and boiler, for the operations planners had in place a unique system to keep a J1 moving with a bare minimum of servicing stops. Her 12,500-gallon tender was replenished on the fly at 13 track pan locations along the way while her 24 tons of coal was devoured by the greedy firebox at the rate of one ton for each 15 miles covered, necessitation a brief stop to load fuel at the Wayneport, N.Y. online coaling station. Located 322 miles west of Harmon and 66.3 miles west of Syracuse, the refueling oasis at Wayneport was a busy place all night long as Hudson after Hudson, like hungry charging beasts, slowed their headlong pace and came dociley up to the feeding trough as each famous named train of the Great Steel Fleet took its turn.
So enraptured had the Central become about the ability of the Hudsons to haul heavy consists over level track at high speeds that the years 1937-38 brought forth 50 J3 super Hudsons, thereby making a grand total of 275 such engines representing nearly 57 per cent of the 485 4-6-4's built for the 18 U.S., Canadian and Mexican roads and dwarfing the next largest user, the Canadian Pacific which had 65.
Paired K-11e 4-6-2's #4552 and #4549 bring in Train #15, overnight sleeper train from New York City loaded with tourists for Lake Placid. Photo taken at Saranac Lake, NY on 9/3/49 by Philip Hastings
While Hudsons were the glamour girls and the legendary image of NYC's Golden Age of Steam, much else was contributed to water level railroading during the Kiefer years. The freight business was in charge of an unparalleled fleet of 600 Mohawk type 4-8-2's that filled out the roundhouses and held sway along the main lines. These ranged from 185 long and lanky L1's of World War I vintage to 300 brawny and muscularly built L2 engines that came in concert with the Hudsons to the World War intrusion of 115 L3/4 classes which presented a sleek and finely tailored look together with the greatest horsepower yet achieved in any Central locomotive. Once again, Mohawk ownership topped all comers with 28 per cent of all such engines built, the next contender being the Pennsylvania's 301 famous M-1's, however, on a World-wide basis, the Union of South Africa once operated more than 1200 4-8-2's.
Needless to say, the vast fleets of Hudsons and Mohawks were acquired as the natural successors to smaller Pacifics and Mikados, but the situation was quite different over on the 200-mile Boston and Albany subsidiary. Herein stood the only significant main line grades on the entire system where, in a 43-mile stretch between Westfield and Pittsfield, the line snaked up and over the rugged Berkshire Hills with east and westbound grades of 1.5 per cent leading up to Washington Summit. Ancient 2-6-6-2 Mallets and Central's only ten 2-10-2's once worked its tonnage up and over this barrier, however, the Mallets were scrapped and Santa Fes sold to Grand Trunk Western when 55 high capacity A1 Berkshires of Lima design proved their merit. Having heavy-visaged and pipe-entwined boilers, these 2-8-4's often doubleheading, wrestled the tonnage up and over the grades like it had never been done before.
The 930 Hudsons, Mohawks and Berkshires (among a total ownership of about 2500 engines of all types) formed the backbone of the Central's modern day steam operations along all principal main lines. The philosophy of the motive power designing here was to achieve high steaming capacities to feed modest-sized cylinders, since the normal starting tractive force was not great in many cases, boosters were employed perhaps more extensively than on any other American railroad to get trains started; once underway, little difficulty was encountered on the relatively level track. The road's builders had secured the onl
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, you are lookin' just a bit fatigued. Why not go up to the Penthouse Suite and rest a bit! I'll take care of things down here . . .
Ahhhh, a frosty mug of Keiths finest Ale should go well with the Larsman Special hero sandwich of ham 'n Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH and two large <crispy> pickles from the barrel. Of course, a saucer of brine for Tex, a seed try for Awk, a bucket of ice cubes for Frostbite and a LARGE jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris <he's been working very hard today!> And, a round on me!
One of the most active week days in recent memory and extremely happy to see so many familiar faces in here.
This year I did NOT solicit for business as with last - figured there was no point in it. The guys who want to be here ARE. 'nuf said, huh Youbetchaboots! <grin>
I'm quite suprised that our UK Connection didn't catch the festivities going on - it isn't as if we haven't been "talking" about this day for weeks 'n weeks. Don't suppose he has "that syndrome" do ya???? You know, the dreaded "only reading what I want to read" malady that has stricken so many, young and old alike. Nahhhhhh, DL isn't like THAT! Just an omission and my guess is that he'll make up for it PDQ!
A fine, fine informative post from the other side of the pond, but as with Cap'n Tom, I must save and savor it for a later time. Far too much to digest with all of this going on.
Ok Doug, you are spared the 'wratch' of the Manager <this time> as I'll put away the keel hauling equipment, super sized dunk tank, and "plank." Sorry Boris, I know how hard at it you've been. <groan> Strong back, weak mind . . .
Very nice NYC "stuff" and really enjoyed the steam loco and passenger car pix. Right out of Nostalgiaville - great, great times for railroading and the SYSTEM knew how to do "it."
Enjoyed the "run down" from Cap'n Tom, and when you see all of those posts along with the times, you realize that when we are busy, we are really busy, but when there's drought - as with most daytimes, there's really drought. "Feast or famine" is what this place has been known as - BUT not today!
Awright, where's that Bar Chandler when we need him???? Good Grief Charlie Brown, this is our busiest day of the year! Just when I thought we had him squared away . . . <groan>
Here's a bit more on the SYSTEM, then I'm off to do the bidding of the Mrs. (after checking the "upstairs" of course . . . ) Many are recent repeats, but still a "treat" for the eyes!
NYC 20th Century Ltd EMD E units southbound along the Hudson River (1947) (from: Bruce Wolfe collection)
NYC F7A #1684 (photo credit: J. Hunt)
NYC F7A #1757 (photo credit: J. Hunt)
NYC EMD E8A #4096 (Credit: Corel Corp.)
NYC PA3 #4210 (photo credit: Bill Waller)
Until the next time!
Lars
I think I will have the Bathams as shown on the beer mat TOM showed please RUTH.
Great posts for our 2nd anniversary, just back in so have not read all the posts yet which I shall do now.
I thought I would do Part 1 of a post I have prepared for the festivities.
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 1)
The many British railway companies were formed into was became known as the big four in 1923.
As we talked about a while back at the bar the British companies had a way of naming their passenger locomotives. Before the grouping some railways were quite prolific in naming locos whereas others did not name them at all, but the big four all had named locomotives.
GREAT WESTERN
The Great Western was the most unaffected by the grouping and they had always had a policy of naming their passenger locos.
Apart from a solitary pacific built in the 1900s the GWR had no passenger loco bigger than a
4-6-0, and they named even their mixed traffic locos.
The largest class of these was the 4900 Hall and 6959 Modified Hall, these engines totaled 329 locos and all were named after the stately homes although towards the end a lot of the Halls were nowhere near GW territory.
A larger express passenger class was the 4073 class Castles there were 167 of these. As the name suggests the majority were named after Castles mainly in GW territory. The Great Western in 1936 needed some light locos to work on the ex Cambrian lines in Wales so they mated a Duke class type boiler with a Bulldog outside frames, these were much older classes and they looked it. Anyway they named these locos after Earls but it is said that when the noble gentlemen found out that there names were on such old fashioned looking locomotives they objected and the GWR rapidly applied their names to brand new Castle class locomotives.
Also some Castles were named after aircraft used by the RAF in WWII, and a couple named Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Sir Daniel Gooch from the GWR's earliest days. The last Castle was a named Swindon after the works where the locos were built. The locos not named after Castles had as small plate below the main name that read ‘Castle Class'
The largest GWR Express passenger locomotives were the 6000 class, which had the largest tractive effort of a loco in Britain at the time of their building. I have read that the strong rumour was that the 30 locos were the named after Cathedrals as a logical step from Castles, but from what I have read at the bar it seems the King name was chosen when the first loco of the class was asked to appear at the B&O Centennial celebration in the U.S.A.
The locos were named from the King of the time, King George V in a descending order. The last two engines of the class were renamed as two new Kings of England ascended to the throne as the 6000s were in service.
The last named Great Western locomotive class was the ‘County' a total of 30 engines introduced in 1945, these locos had straight nameplates where the others were curved. As the name suggests the class of 30 was named after Counties of England and Wales. F.W. Hawksworth who had followed C.B Collett as Chief Mechanical Engineer designed these locos. The Great western only had 7 CMEs from 1837 until nationalisation in 1948
Other GWR Mixed traffic named locos was, the 1936 introduced Grange class of 80 locos and the 1938 Manor a class of 30
A photo of a preserved Hall showing how the nameplate fitted in well with the copper on the loco.
Back in a bit.
Hello again Tom and crew.. This time the round's on me! Manager Lars has forgiven me for deviating from his beloved NYC theme, and provided some real nice pictures for us to enjoy.
The boss (Tom) left the country, and is trying to teach us about the four British railway companies. Are we having fun or what?
Here's my part II of NYC stuff from "Rails Northeast":
Boston & Albany #1434, class A1b, Lima product of 1927, photographed at Selkirk, NY during July, 1945. Photo by Harlod K. Vollrath
The Central's easygoing routes, highspeed operations and modest-sized power, even through the Age of Super Power, all stand in stark contrast to the mountain-going profiles and massive engines that existed on all of its neighbors and competitors to the immediate south. On such roads as the Pennsy and Baltimore and Ohio there were long and tedious grades winding their way over the Poconos and Alleghenies and Blue Ridges. Double-headers and/or pushers were the accepted way of life here and everything from husky three-cylindered 4-8-2's on the Lackawanna to Santa Fes on the Erie, LV, PRR and B&O were a common sight. Also, the Pennsy's hundreds of monster Decapods and B*O's articulated out in West Virginia all created awesome spectacles battling up to Gallitzin or Terra Alta.
Doubleheaders long most of NYC's main lines were actually so rare as to be termed a phenomenon when they did occur. Two places where they were run regularly included the B&A, as previously mentioned and on the Pennsylvania Division to Avis or Newberry Jct., (near Williamsport), Pa., where the older L1 Mohawks ran. And looking a bit farther afield to find something on the Central that differed from the sameness and standardization and conservatism of the vast fleets, you could find a modest 16-unit herd of doddering old 2-6-6-2 Mallets tucked away in the southeastern Ohio coal fields where they ran out of a small enginehouse located at Minerva.
Over the long haul from 1904 to the end of steam development in the middle 1940's, the simplified planning strategy for NYC's road power was aimed toward an intensive concentration upon just four basic wheel types which were acquired in vast quantities and used ubiquitously throughout the system to haul the major part of main line traffic. First came a great proliferation of Pacifics and Mikados which did so well along level track that little else was used until the late 1920's, the only significant exception being the 185 L1 light Mohawks of World War I vintage for fast freight service. With more than 800 light Pacifics and about 1000 Mikados in light to heavy sizes roaring over the road by 1925, Central had not only amassed the greatest assemblage of these types ever to be seen upon any American road, but had come close to standardization its main lines with two principal wheel arrangements.
The dawning of the Super Power Age in the late 1920's once again favored water level rails with a superiority of numbers as a long needed modernization program brought seemingly endless legions of new Hudsons and Mohawks to the road. This time there occurred a notable exception in the form of 55 A1 Berkshires which the B&A needed to solve its special problems in getting over the Berkshire Hills. Completing the steam picture were the 27 spectacularly successful Niagras which, unfortunately, were a product of the Diesel Age and had scant opportunity for any longevity despite the fact that they could out perform a two-unit 4000-horsepower E7 diesel locomotive.
Through all these years of steam history, the water level concept embraced conservatism and the dogged determination to employ as few wheels as possible to get the job done, an air of independence from whatever was going on elsewhere in design and mechanical circles and an exceptionally high degree of standardization among its vast armadas of engines. Such practices were natural inborn traits of bigness and in this respect it was probably was not too surprising that the same concepts were true of Central's arch rival, the Pennsy, but after this, the schism between the two big Eastern carriers widened like a Grand Canyon as each proselytized its own special brand of technology which were opposites.
In deference to the easy-going terrain and some clearance limitations on its lines east of Buffalo, Central engines were characterized by their modest size and modest horsepower output while making extensive use of all the modern appliances to maintain the highest possible efficiency. This was a road where a high tractive force was achieved only with the aid of a trailing truck booster and where the stoker and feedwater heater were used with abandon to produce steam and more steam for those hungry cylinders at racehorse speeds. Then too, the physical plant was finely honed to sharpen up the operating performance by dotting many divisions with track pans for scooping water on the fly and online coaling stations. Thus in the Central scheme of things, nearly all tenders possessed water scoops while the water carrying capacities were small in relation to large coal bunkers.
New York Central #1405 (ex-1221-3661-2463), class H5e, built originally by Brooks Locomotive Works in 1905 as a 2-8-0, photographed at Toledo, Ohio in September of 1949 by Harlod K. Vollrath
A man had been drinking at the bar for hours when he mentioned something about his girlfriend being out in the car. The bartender, concerned because it was so cold, went to check on her. When he looked inside the car, he saw the man's friend, Dave, and his girlfriend kissing one another. The bartender shook his head and walked back inside.He told the drunk that he thought it might be a good idea to check on his girlfriend. The fellow staggered outside to the car, saw his buddy and his girlfriend kissing, then walked back into the bar laughing."What's so funny?" the bartender asked."That stupid Dave!" the fellow chortled, "He's so drunk, he thinks he's me!"
Okay, where's RUTH??? Where Lars??? Where's the key to the Penthouse Suite??? Hmmmm, where's Inspector Clueless???
Fine, so it's Boris 'n I against the world this afternoon - we can handle it, eh sidekick?? Youbetch!
So, a few more ACKNOWLEDGMENTS on this Anniversary Day at the Saloon by the Siding!
Doug at 1:17 PM today: And the quality material continues . . . enuf reading material to get us through the longest of droughts, fer sure, fer sure! Nice work barn weevil and especially great to have your support throughout this 2nd Anniversary Day at the bar!
Still "enjoying" that GG1 in Tuscan livery with those gold stripes - Da Best, fer sure, fer sure! When you visit the Cam-Am Trainroom, there's one in a display case with a tuscan passenger consist that I think you and the guys will enjoy seeing.
That final Pix on the Water Level Steam story is Da Best as well. Can you just imagine those "lucky ducks" who used to commute by train or simply go from city to city for business trips?? Man oh man, I was definitely born far too late. In those times I was alive, but hardly in a position to take advantage of those super fine trains! Ahhhhhhhhhhh.
Joke? <barf> <grin> Have another one on ME - perhaps your humor will IMPROVE!
Lars at 2:29 PM today: Back for more pain 'n suffering, eh??? Was wonderin' just what was going on. Hmmmmmm. But of course, everything's "above board" in this fine establishment of ours! Really???? <grin>
Great diesels of the NYC era and those lightning stripes really do bring back the nostalgia. It was a mighty fine road and always seemed to give "my" Pennsy a run for the money. According to the "stats" that Shane gave us awhile back, they pretty much beat 'em on some fronts. Those truly had to be the best of times for passenger railroads!
HEY! Give the Wolfman some SLACK, Mate. He's trying his best. The guy gets his fingers caught between the keys most times AND then there's the language deficiency. Just can't find enough of us Yanks to comprehend that Rugby accent. <grin> As Pete would tell us, "They didn't understand a word I said!" And I'm gonna spend nearly a week with this guy aboard moving trains in Canada! <yikes>
Pete at 2:49 PM today: You said you'd return and you DID. Fine Post, as always, and just WHO is that guy in front of the TrainWreck Saloon?? Is he holding up the overhang or is it supporting him??? Hmmmmm - good time that day, eh Mate
I'll have to add your well put together piece on the British Big Four RR Companies into the "pile to be read later," or as a "talk show host" would say, "in the stack of stuff."
A beauty of a beast that Pitchford Hall loco - do you have a full length one available?? Nice looking, fer sure, fer sure.
By the by, I sent you an Email this morning . . .
Doug at 3:22 PM today: <phew> I can hardly keep up with youse guyz today! What a fine, fine day and to think it's only a handful keeping things going like this. Imagine what it would be like if ALL of the guys listed on Eric's "2" had shown up??? I think we'd need at least 4 barkeeps!
Nice one on the Concepts of Water Level Steam, however it too will be added to the "stack" - <phew>
Okay, Gents, I'm gonna take a short break - I see Ruth is back. She looks just a tad unsteady. Hmmmmmm. Hope she's not ill. <grin>
Later!
Tom
Happy B' Day to "Our Place" A special howdy to all from the sandbox. Set um' on me for the remainder of the week..Looks like i'm moving in the next few weeks, being reassigned to a Coast Guard squadron in the south, weekends in Kuwait here I come!!!
Ok what have we been up too?
Tom, gotta tell you this O scale great! I could get into this, then what would become of West Coast S? Suggestions from all welcomed...., great read on all your contributions,a wee bit too NYC (just kidding) have to introduce some SP material for variety..Would you believe I completely forgot about Easter, I thought the Chaplain was hinting at my lack of mass attendence , Duh! didn't get the sublime message I guess..Nor that spot of Boris in a Bunny suit.
Eric..What are the plans for Buffalo Terminal? But for demolition cost, NYC would have razed it by the early seventies, I imagine it to be pretty poor condition overall, gutted and chopped to permit a freight bypass and such...
Barndad, good read, I see you retain your usual sense of humor and distinct story telling.
Pwolf, our resident expert on all subject foreign, speaking of which one can find locomotives that have been derailed due to IED's, the object is to loot the contents of the trailing train, yet passenger trains are never attacked (such as they exist)...
A howdy to James, oh and master Lovedomes and Mr. interurban himself ,Rob
Ok, how do I intend to tie our NYC theme with the SP one may ask, check this out..
Upon the completion of demostrator trials of the EMD E7, EMD was confident that SP was impressed with the product. SP had the final word that stunned EMD, "The E7 was a great locomotive, the NYC will love them" Despite EMD's sales efforts the order was given to Alco for PA's. In time SP would roster E units, but they would always be second string players to the Alco's. To add further humilation to EMD, SP cancelled what would have been a massive GP-7's and rewrote the order for Baldwin. Indeed, 1949 was a tough year for EMD sales personal who garnered no new SP orders despite best efforts..
Dave
Hello again Tom and folks. Another bottomless draught if you please, and another round for the house! Here's a little something for the coal scuttle, and yes .. they are from Michigan!
I knew that Dave would not let this day go by without checking in, and since there's been some activity here, it's time for part III of my series!
New York Central 2377 (ex-277), class H10b, built by Lima in 1924, photographed doubling an eastbound perishable at Chicago, Ill. In June 1947 by Harld K. Vollrath
High stepping little Atlantics, Ten-Wheelers and Praries were the glamour girls of the limiteds way back in 1904-05 when the need for larger power became apparent and the first Pacifics began making their appearances along the NYC's various component lines. The K80 classification clearly indicated a beginning design and after 70 of them were built by Alco and Montreal, the 22X26-inch cylinders and 75-inch drivers were re-engineered to 22X28 and 79 in order to create the K2 which was then built to a quantity of 192 engines between 1907-10. But Central man were still not entirely satisfied with the K2's output and in 1911, a further cylinder revision to 23 1/2X26 inches was made in the plans to create the capable K3 which was built to the amazing total of 281 engines over the years until 1925.
It seems almost unbelievable that the 473 small hand fired K2/K3 Pacifics were the principle passenger power for well over two decades until Hudsons began to arrive en masse. The two class had similar boilers of 70 5/8 inches diameter with 56.5 square feet of grate area. And 200 pounds steam pressure, thus the difference in cylinder dimensions amounted to playing with steam to achieve more drawbar horsepower. Therefore, the K2 posted 1655 DBHP at 40 m.p.h. while the slightly improved K3 produced 1750 DBHP at the same speed. Tractive forces in the 30,000 pounds range were no higher than those being achieved with the larger Atlantics of those days, but Central was more interested in adequate steaming capacities at speed and this meant as many as ten cars behind the drawbar of a K3 on a 20 or 22-hour schedule between New York and Chicago.
During these times of post-World War I era when many roads were installing heavy Pacifics and passenger Mountain types to pull their best limiteds, the longevity of NYC's light K3's as the backbone of its heaviest long distance service seemed like an astounding achievement, but Central had an ace up its sleeve. While it is true that the K3's were struggling, particularly when starting or moving out with long trains of all-steel Pullmans, the resourcefully conservative road wasn't about to invest in new and larger engines if it could find another way out and for its ingenuity, we credit the NYC with the invention of the booster engine.
It happened in 1919 when Howard L. Ingersoll, Assistant to the President Mechanical, designed a small, two-cylinder steam engine that could be installed in the trailing truck for extra power when starting trains. Trials on a K3 locomotive proved the success of the device and manufacturing rights were sold to Franklin Railway Supply Co., a division of Lima. On a K3, the C2 booster, as it was known, added 9700 pounds of TF to the main cylinder rating of 30,900 pounds, thereby giving the stout and sturdy K3 the latent reserve muscle to easily walk away with more of a train than one might expect. The booster success even got into the road's advertising as a part of the slogan "The Water Level Route - You Can Sleep" because smooth staring, without a janging lurch of taking up slack in the middle of the night, afforded a restful sleep (This reference was also slanted toward the Pennsy competition where it was alleged the heavy lunging of doubleheaders against drawbars in the Allegheny Mountains crossing caused uncomfortable riding qualities). At any rate, boosters quickly became technology and most road engines had them.
Through the first decade of this century, freight power on the old NYC lines displayed the uncluttered, bare bones simplicity of such Nineteenth Century concepts as diminutive Moguls, low-drivered fast freight Ten-Wheelers and most importantly, the widely used Consolidations. In fact, so efficient and so economical were the heavy-duty Consols that they were still being acquired during the first three years of passenger Pacific usage, moreover, the breakaway to enlarged Twentieth Century freight concepts lagged six to eight years behind new passenger power developments.
By 1901 the time had come to enlarge the boilers and add wheels to freight engines, but strangely enough, the result was not the expected Mikado. Instead, the choice turned out to be a fleet of 200 class K11 fast freight Pacifics having 69-inch drivers and a TF of only 38,970 pounds, a figure that could be successful nowhere but on the Water Level Route. Alco delivered these unusual engines between 1910-13 and their large drivers (for a freight hauler) and four-wheel front trucks for greater stability at speed attracted so much attention that three competing roads in the New York-Buffalo market soon were receiving similar fleets of approximately 50 engines apiece despite the fact all were compelled to navigate long and tortuous mountain grades. The fast freight Pacifics of the Erie, the Lackawanna and the Lehigh Valley possessed the expected 69 and 70-inch drivers, however, they had larger boilers and cylinders, thus were heavier and much more powerful. The four fleets enjoyed varied careers beyond the years of their primary fast tonnage chores as most of NYC's K11's became local varnish haulers along with their K3 cousins, those of the Erie and LV saw a combination of main line passenger service and extensive local freight jobs while most of the DL&W's were converted to heavy 0-8-0 switchers.
New York Central 2632 class L1c, Lima built 1918, sitting at the Cincinnati, Ohio engine service area during July, 1939. Photo by Harold K. Vollrath
According to the Knight-Ridder News Service, the inscription on the metal bands used by the U.S. Department of the Interior to tag migratory birds has been changed. The bands used to bear the address of the Washington Biological Survey, abbreviated, "Wash. Biol. Surv." until the agency received the following letter from an Arkansas camper: "Dear Sirs: While camping last week I shot one of your birds. I think it was a crow. I followed the cooking instructions on the leg tag and I want to tell you it was horrible."
I believe the next beer on the mats is a Holden's. I had better have the bitter this time please Ruth and of course a round for the house. Don't forget Gents the empty kegs are a lot easier to move when I do the chandelling later.
Before I get on to the Anniversary posts I must mention those links to Buffalo Central and those great ‘March of Time videos from MIKE, last evening.
A great start to the anniversary from ERIC. Great story of how you had to lose those 6 minutes to get the X2000 exactly on time.
Many thanks for sharing the photos of the inside story of the X2000. I noticed how LUNCH was in big letters on the board; it reminded me of some of the courses I have been on.
DOUG. Great posts. I see there was two on the Pennsy and RDCs for Tom and three on the NYC with great pics in them as well. What a sight the GG1 must have looked when she was brought out the paint shop. Wonderful photo of 4877 in her finery a lot different to the condition of the GG1s in the videos in Mike's links. Wonderful descriptions and photos of the NYC steam locomotives in the Rails northwest.
Thanks for the jokes and toasts. Great photo of you three outside Our Place.
CM3 Many thanks for that marvelously evocative post on the Boston & Albany. The description of the Mohawk passing Newtonville was indeed something a steam fan would never forget, Glorious indeed.
Wonderful description of the journey from New Haven to New York's Grand Central.
BK I have to say that your post was one of the finest I have read about Our Place. It is my feelings for the bar, exactly but I could not put into words
I have, for some reason, always loved railways but knew very little of them in North America, but mainly through Our Place I have come to appreciate and respect the great railroads, trains and locos there was over here.
ROB As you say H&H are working real hard in the kitchen today they have prepared a great spread but they have promised to let me have my traditional Thursdays Fish ‘N' Chips tomorrow.
Great story of Heather's Dad waiting so he could ride in the TR car sounds like the thing I would do.
Thanks for the Port Maitland Ad & Schedule.
DL Great to see you in. Real shame about the ‘new' Kimberley. Why they keep the name when it is not the same beer is beyond me, surely they know that the drinkers can tell the difference.
I would love to hear your friend's tales of the Grimsby fish trains. They did pong a bit but at least they were fast moving. The worst for me I think were the cattle trains.
Those Hungarian locos have a very North American look about them to me.
Many thanks for the links to those great posters, and the details of your trip to East Anglia, it is sad but from your description travel on the GNER is going down hill.
I will read those reports on the train ferry question a bit later if I may.
LARS I'm working real hard today with the amount of toasts and the beer sales the tub will be overflowing again.
Three days on the NYC surely a record. Many thanks for the NYC steam and diesel pics and the great toast you proposed.
Tom has seen the way I type, it makes even BORIS look skilled at typing.
DAVE Great you could make it in, it would not have been the same to have the 2nd anniversary without our West Coast friend.
It will be good to read of the SP again, and perhaps something on the Pacific Electric.
I had not realized that there still was some rail traffic where you are, although it is good news that they leave the passenger trains alone.
Keep Safe.
TOM What a wonderful anniversary it is the bar is really buzzing. Many thanks for the great graphics in your posts and really good to see the pic of our No1 mascot Juneau
Those penguins still make me laugh I can look at the clip over and over again
Very soon now will have had 10,0
Back again on our 2nd annivesary. so I will have the Holden's Special please LEON please
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 2)
SOUTHERN RAILWAY (SR).
The SR was a bit more imaginative with their naming policy. The N15 class were named after characters from the King Arthur legends, the SR served lines in Cornwall where much of King Arthur's deeds are said to have taken place.
Another class Lord Nelson was another great choice as the SR served Portsmouth and Plymouth to have famous British seafarers for this class of 16.
The Southern built a class of Britain's most powerful 4-4-0s as late as 1930 the locos were named after famous English Public Schools. There were 40 locos in the class.
Another link to the sea were O.V.S. Bullied's 1941 Merchant Navy class of 30 pacifics. These were named after shipping lines that served the ports connected to the SR, like Southampton. These were probably the most handsome nameplates, with the Shipping lines flag in the center of the nameplate. The nameplates were left and right handed so that the flag always appeared to be flying towards the rear of the locomotive. With a weight of 94 ¾ tons the MNs were too heavy for some routes and the West Country/ Battle of Britain class were introduced in 1945, with a weight of 86 tons. These 110 locos were basically the same with the West Countries named after towns in the West serving that area and the Battle of Britain serving the SR lines in Kent.
These locos were named after Squadrons, Air Fields, Aircraft and people involved in the battle of Britain. Often the West Countries had the crest of the town and the BBs the squadron badge above the nameplate to make another handsome plate.
A photo of a Battle of Britain nameplate with crest.
Back for another series of recognitions to those who have taken the time and made the effort to join in on our 2nd Year Anniversary Celebration!
It has been a grand occasion! To repeat myself, in spite of a relatively small nucleus comprising our "regular" customer base, the overwhelming majority joined in as requested with a toast to our success and contributions relevant to our anniversary. Many THANX!
Dave at 4:04 PM today: Being transferred to a Coast Guard squadron, eh Surely wish you'd ship me an Email if at all possible. As you know, I have a wee bit of background with that organization . . . Times and things change, and I'm in "wonderment" over it all.
Really pleased that you not only stopped by on this our "day of days," but have kept pace with our "shenanigans" as well! As if you have nothing else to DO! Yeah, right. Thanx very much Dave - an inspiration to all who COULD but DON'T.
Clever tie in with the SP ‘n NYC via the EMD E7 . . .
West Coast Oooooooooo - that will "work'!
Doug at 5:14 PM today: And it continues - another batch for the "stack o' stuff"! Not a problem, for it all will be read and undoubtedly enjoyed . . .
You've truly outdone yourself today and I can't recall the last time you've provided not only frequent appearances, but so many meaningful Posts!
Awful joke! <groan>
Pete at 6:34 PM ‘n 6:48 PM today: Back again, eh Glad to see you've not let the Manager get to you. <grin>
Just a clarification on "that" Pix provided by Doug of the "three of us" standing in front of "Our" Place. That shot was taken by a young lady at the Brantford, Ontario VIA Rail Station last May as our 1st Annual Rendezvous got underway. It's Moi - Ted ‘n Rob. Sorry, but the barn weevil wasn't there.
Yes, we are approaching the 10,000th Post for "Our" Place - remember "last count" on the original Thread was 9,013 - just add the numbers. That's not necessarily for YOU, but for anyone else who is interested . . . I too am amazed at how many "observe" us, but do not wish to "talk." My bride thinks it may be due to the way we operate. We're structured and keep to it, whereas most of these cyber sites are as loose as a goose . . . Perhaps.
Thanx for the Hall class loco shot and the Part Deux of your British Big Four Railway Companies!
Okay Gents, I've spent about as much time here today as I have during any recent week! So, time to do other things. Truly appreciate those of you who remembered this Anniversary Day and said so!
This has been a GOOD day with lotsa GOOD stuff from quite a few GOOD folks. THANX!
Set ‘em, Leon 'n Boris ring the gong!
See y'all on Friday!
Hi again Tom! Another bottomless draught and another round please. I can't believe you thought my jokes would improve as the day went on. They never do that! Two great new posts from Pete, and I believe he has two more to go to finish the series. Mine is going to take quite a while. Here's part IV
New York Central #2780, class L2a, Schenectady built 1926, backs to his train after making a pick up at Geneva, New York. Photographed March, 1947 by Harold K. Vollrath
In the NYC's scheme of flatland operations, the fast freight K11 Pacific of 1910 design clearly pointed the way toward an early dissatisfaction with the inherently sluggish, low-horsepower characteristics of Consolidations. Therefore, this type was quickly relegated to play a minor role over the years as evidenced in the modern day roster which listed only about 160 Consols as compared to 1060 such engines on the Pennsy. The first significant inroads upon the existing Consolidation fleet occurred to class G5 of 1903-06 vintage which underwent conversions to H5 light Mikados during the years 1912-17, plus some all-new construction lasting until the early 1920's to produce a fleet of about 360 engines.
The conversion work, done principally by Alco, retained little more than fireboxes having 56.5 square feet of grate area, cabs, 63-inch driving wheels and running gear. Steam pressure was lowered from 200 to 180 pounds while the cylinders grew from 23X32 to 25X32 inches to produce a TF that increased slightly from 45,680 up to 48,570 pounds in the new H5. In later years, many got stokers, feedwater heaters and boosters, thereby considerably increasing engine weight and affording an additional 9900 pounds TF. Since the G5 boiler possessed only 2995.9 square feet of heating surface as compared to 4095 in the H%, the desired objective here was not one of merely increasing the TF, but on of providing a marked increase in steaming capacity which was the key to higher horsepower and speed. On the other hand, these were frugally-designed, economy-minded engines because of their tiny fireboxes, together with lowered steam pressure evidenced concessions to conservatism, steaming capacity, larger cylinders and better adhesion., these traits probably suiting Central's needs for a fleet of all around general utility engines.
Concurrently with the acquisition of the H5, the 1912-20 period saw NYC's lines becoming heavily populated with nearly 400 other Mikados. These included 130 heavy-duty drag freight H7's, 40 H8's built principally for the P&LE, 194 USRA light H6's and 30 USRA heavy H9's. Most of the Central's Mikes were notable for having straight boiler barrels and the standard 63-inch drivers, the only exception being the 56-inch drivers on class H8.
Aside from USRA power, the big locomotive news of World War I times was probably the widespread acceptance of huge, lumbering Santa Fe types which were in great demand to cope with the staggering tonnage volume, thus was born the so-called Drag Freight Era. Receiving only ten USRA light Santa Fes for use over the B&A's Berkshire Hills, NYC didn't really succumb to the ten-drivered syndrome as its motive power designers found their own unique way to suit the needs of flat railroading. The Mountain type had first been developed for the Chesapeake & Ohio in 1911 as a heavy passenger hauler and to date was not looked upon as either a freight hauler or a dual service machine. Since the Central had slight need for cumbersome drag machines and since its fast freight Pacifics had established a new technique back in 1910, the obvious next step was simply to enlarge them into America's first steam fleet of freight Mountains which were promptly renamed Mohawks out of sheer necessity. Between 1916-18, both Alco and Lima built a combined total of 185 L1 Mohawks which encompassed a direct enlargement of the K11 plans as witness the Pacific's 26X26-inch cylinders being enlarged to 28X28 inches in the Mohawks while 69-inch drivers remained constant. As built, the L1 represented a plain and simple design, its lone modern appliance being the superheater while the TF of 54,080 pounds put it in the class of a Mikados power, yet able to attain higher speeds.
With the ending of World War I and lifting of the hated USRA controls, America's railroads in the early 1920's set about a vast rebuilding and re-equipping of their lines despite a short, yet severe economic depression. New frontiers of larger, high-powered boiler development were reached as the drag freight mania saw Baldwin delivering 475 I1s Decapods to the PRR, the magnificent Big Six Santa Fes were acquired by the B&O and such Western roads as the Santa Fe and Espee got their share of large Santa Fe types. But on the NYC, where the desire for horsepower and where a wariness about using any more wheels probably exceeded that of the Pennsy, new ways were sought to increase the capacity of such existing wheel types as Mikados and Mohawks with the resulting innovations having much to do with the shortly forthcoming Super Power Era.
In 1922 and again in 1924, Alco took an NYC L1b Mohawk and rebuilt each with three, 25X28-inch cylinders replacing the existing two 28X28-inch size while steam pressure was raised from 190 to 200 pounds and TF from 54,080 to 64,670 pounds. Engines 2568 and 2569 were by no means the first three-cylindered single-expansion locomotives, but they did revive the long dormant concept in a high capacity machine. The experiment proved to be a deadend street for NYC because of high maintenance costs and the two were eventually converted back to their original form. However, this idea had far reaching effects for Alco where, in 1923, a practically identical Mountain type was built as a demonstrator and sold to the LV where its three-cylindered muscle performed wonders in hauling passenger trains over the Poconos between East Mauch Chunk and Wilkes-Barre, Pa. The Valley quickly bought five more and thereby began a long line of such power for numerous roads, the best-known being Espee's 4-10-2 Overland types which appeared in 1925 and UP's monstrous 4-12-2 Union Pacific type of 1926 design.
New York Central #4802 (ex-6502), class K3r, Schenectady built 1925, photographed at Chicago, Ill. July 1947 by Harold K. Vollrath
Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds?Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii? Why are there flotation devices under plane seats instead of parachutes? Why are cigarettes sold in gas stations when smoking is prohibited there? Why do fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing? If you can't drink and drive, why do you need a driver's license to buy liquor, and why do bars have parking lots? Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime? Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? How does the guy who drives the snowplow get to work in the mornings? If 7-11 is open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, why are there locks on the doors?
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Congratulations on 2nd anniversary and thank you for keeping it going.
GG1 re-set to Windows Media Player
http://static.thoughtequity.com/video/aux/warehouse/493/01051/49301051_025_lp.wmv
http://static.thoughtequity.com/video/aux/warehouse/493/01051/49301051_026_lp.wmv
New York Central streamlined steam train
http://static.thoughtequity.com/video/aux/warehouse/331/740/331740_014_lp.wmv
X2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EjkikFGDY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wkh9PZUshI&NR=1
Mike
Good evening Leon , still on your feet are you Good man ! I think I'll have another Keith's as I wind out the day.As promissed I have made it back in to help the girls clear up the debris of a well attended second aniversary. A 5x for all of us who give a rats patoot.Makes me proud
Doug-Wow the weevil strikes ust a simply amazing amount of info put out by you today I to you,great water level route info and pictures and you done good me lad ! Even found another shot of the GG1 for all to enjoy.
Pete-I'm glad that the girls worked so hard for you,nice to know that the kitchen is in good hands. Amazing info on the various classes of steam locomotives as always we have fun and learn at the same time. Good show all around. I don't imagine that you let Boris do the typing for you though
dave-great to see you take the time out to be with us this afternoon , or is that morning where you are Nice linkage of the E units as well to keep the NYC theme rolling well into it's third day.
Lars-Isn't it great the turn out we've had today, warms the cockles of me heart.I have to say that I never get tired of shots of early first gen diesels. The PA3 does it for me,I'm still a recovering alcophile
DL-great to see you make it in today. I haven't waded all the way through your post yet,but it's good stuff fer sure fer sure.I'll search out that story you mentioned. Funny thing the museum owns the body of a Guelph Radial Birny car. It was the upper story of a house by the speed river in Guelph. The owner didn't know it was there. unfortunatly when they were renovating this chunk of upper story fell into the speed river,once it was determined what it was they donated it to us,that was ten or so years ago,we felt it wasn't really restorable then but we haven't the heart to put it out of it's misery.
Tom-Now you know any and all Robism's are usable no matter how in poor taste they are.I only watched the first two overtimes of that game, remembering that they are 4 hours different from my time zone,what better do I have to do at three in the morning thoughI did see that our gals won again. Good for them, if it wasn't for the Can / USA rivalry in women's hockey I don't think there would be such a game.I figured that you would like the Port Mailtland info it is a cute little town still today.My copies of those are very old and faded themselves though I did notice that once you blow them up they are fairly readable, the hotel rates remind me of that one hotel rate add you've posted on many an occation.
Mike-Nice to see one more round of urls to wind out the day from you as well knid of rounded out the day quite nicley.
Well guys here's to year three and some continued success for this play and the continued friendships for those of us who enjoy our times here.
Rob
Howdy Tom and friends. I'll have a light breakfast, and reading glasses. I see that silent Mike and Rob made it back in before our party was done. Please forgive this hasty submission, but I need to be off to take care of horses, then work, then ride the train downtown for a meeting of the Locomotive and Railroad Historical Society! Here's part V of my little NYC series (and to think that Lars doubted me on material content this week ..... sheesh)
New York Central 4925 (ex-CCCSt.L #6525, ex NYC 5000, ex-MC 8349), class K5, Schenectady built 1926, has just taken on a full load of coal at Indianapolis, Ind., photographed October 1949 by Harlod K. Vollrath
Secondly in 1922, the task of creating an all-new heavy duty Mikado fell to Will Woodward who was Lima's noted design engineer. Using the final H7e's of 1920 as a basic starting point, Woodward increased the grate area (59.6 to 66.4 square feet) anjd cylinders (27X30 to 28X30 inches), then proceeded to add an array of components that were destined to be the nucleus of his shortly forthcoming Super Power. These features included stokers, boosters, feedwater heaters, over-sized 14-inch piston valves to handle a greater volume of steam and a heretofore unheard of superheating area of 2020 square feet which was nearly 2 ½ times greater than heretofor used on most other NYC power. The result of all this was the formidable and rugged looking H10 No. 8000 which could produce 63,470 pounds TF plus 11,000 pounds with a booster.
So successful was the trial 8000 that Alco and Lima by 1924 had produced 302 near duplicates and yet, while these were Central's last Mikados, they signaled the beginning of the Super Power Age. In 1924, all that Will Woodward need do to design America's first Berkshire, the famous A1, was to slide rule the H10 specs into a slightly enlarged boiler with a mammouth, enlarged firebox boasting 100 square feet of grate area and boosting steam pressure from 200 to 240 pounds. Perhaps the most notable new feature of the A1 was the first fabricated outside bearing four-wheel radial trailing truck which was necessary to support the enlarged firebox. During test runs, the trial A1 took the B&A by storm as she thundered up and over the Berkshires with more horsepower, speed and tonnage than either the USRA light Santa Fes or 2-6-6-2 Mallets could manage. The A1 herself, a Lima-owned demonstrator, was eventually sold to the Illinois Central where she became the 7050 while, beginning in 1926, the B&A started acquiring a 55-unit fleet which, significantly, became class A1 built, of course, by Lima through 1930.
The M10 Mikado and closely related A1 Berkshire projects were only two facets of a wide-ranging, nine-year modernization program that began in 1922 and lasted until 1931, by which time the Central had totally retooled its mainline fleet with 1113 new or rebuilt Mikados, Berkshires, Mohawks, Hudsons and Pacifics. Much of the credit for bringing the road into the world of modern steam belonged to Paul W. Keifer who in 1926 was appointed Chief Engineer of Motive Power and Equipment, a position he held for 27 years. Like his predecessors, Kiefer was an exponent of conservatism while employing every known modern appliance to produce the highest possible capacity and efficiency in his locomotives.
Since we have already told the Mikado and Berkshire stories, let's now explore Mohawks, both old and new. The two-engine upgrading of L1's with three cylinders had produced unsatisfactory results and yet, here was a sizable fleet of 185 engines with good potential, but lacking modernity. The obvious remedy was to equip them with such appliances as stokers, feedwater heaters and boosters which added 11,000 pounds TF for a very healthy total of 65,080 pounds. The steam pressure was also raised from 190 to 200 pounds while the added weight of all the new devices raised an L1's total weight from 174 to more than 182 tons. Many received larger 12-wheel tenders and the ferocious countenance of H10 and A1 prevailed with the overhanging Elesco feedwater tank and pilot mounted air pumps behind protective shields.
Turning now to new Mohawk construction, once the final H10b Mikado orders were completed in 1924, the following year saw Alco delivering a single L2 prototype No. 2700 which, unlike the A1 Berkshire, was not a deviation of the H10. Rather, she ranked a bit larger than the L1 and was, in fact, based upon the USRA heavy mountain design. Her total boiler heating surfaces (including superheater) stayed within close proximity to those of the H10, but a larger firebox having 75.3 square feet of grate area presumably afforded a greater steaming capacity to feed an identical 200 pounds pressure to 27X30-inch cylinders whose bore was one inch smaller than an H10 had. With 690inch drivers, the TF stood at 60,620 pounds plus 12,400 pounds for the booster.
New York Central #3006, class L3a, Schenectady built 1940 on the ready track at Chicago, Ill., taken May, 1948 by Harold K. Vollrath
Remember, practice safety at work today
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
*Idiot of the Week #11 The stoplight on the corner buzzes when it's safe to cross the street. I was crossing with an intellectually challenged coworker of mine. She asked if I knew what the buzzer was for. I explained that it signlas blind people when the light is red. Appaled, she responded, What on earth are blind people doing driving?!" She was a probation offricer in Wichita, KS. STAY ALERT!They walk among us . . . and they REPRODUCE . . . !!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * G'day Gents!
*Idiot of the Week #11
The stoplight on the corner buzzes when it's safe to cross the street. I was crossing with an intellectually challenged coworker of mine. She asked if I knew what the buzzer was for. I explained that it signlas blind people when the light is red. Appaled, she responded, What on earth are blind people doing driving?!"
She was a probation offricer in Wichita, KS.
STAY ALERT!
They walk among us . . . and they REPRODUCE . . . !!!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
What's to say other than we had a "banner day" for our 2nd Year Anniversary! Repeated THANX to all who made our day such a success - well done, Gentlemen!
Coffee's ready - pastries are fresh - breakfasts all set for orderin' - so what's the problem???
Doug at 8:26 PM yesterday: And the Water Level Route Steam "stuff" marches on - and on . . . <grin> The more we drink ‘round this joint, the less likely it is that any serious readin' is being done! This must be a "plot' hatched to draw us into to something diabolical. So, what is it?????
Really like the Pix accompanying all of your submissions, which of course make the articles even more intriguing for future readin' - many THANX!
Mike at 11:08 PM yesterday: An anniversary greeting from our resident URLMeisterMonster along with URLs <what else!?!?!>
Rob at 12:11 AM today: The trolleyMAN returneth with a fine inclusive Post and finale for our Anniversary Celebration.
The return of Count Robulla to the late hours makes things seem "normal" again! <uh oh>
Doug at 4:55 AM today: You've been like a Timex watch, keeps on tickin' - fer sure, fer sure! And yet ANOTHER Water Level Route Post! We'll just have to turn the Rat's Patoot Room into our Readin' Room as there's soooooooooo much material piled up in the "stack o' stuff"!! Many THANX, barn weevil, for being the continuity throughout our Anniversary Day! Gold 5- Salute to you Sir!
Great "funny Pix" - Shane will love it! <grin>
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Ruth has the weekend OFF, Cindy will be working tomorrow! This is Pizza ‘n Beer Nite! - and - Steak ‘n Fries Nite! with servings beginning at 5 PM!
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Certainly an outpouring of NYC and other material. Let's see it is in the low 30s today and cloudy - weather says its supposed to be in the 50s and sunny. Gas went up to $3.00 yesterday (sheesh!)
I mentioned earlier I would deal with comments, etc. today. So here goes.
I enjoyed reading about Eric's class - the technology in the classroom was interesting. Check out the overhead projector - not a laptop or PPT in sight. However, you sure had a nice laboratory session (LOL).
Mike sent lots of links to look at. Going back a little, check out the pictures at Harmon. RDCs mu cars and lots of Alco switchers. The S motor at Mott Haven is a classic as well. Appreciated the picture of the geeps (running long hood first, of course) at Indianapolis.
The pictures of Buffalo are enough to make you weep. The second aerial picture will give you an idea if where Eric got his picture - where the platform trackage usta be. BTW, the railfan net site is well worth a visit.
Pete - Thanks for rerun of things past re 25/26 consist. Some NYC locomotives had smoke lifters; these included 4-8-2s and 4-8-4s. You can't generalize a whole lot about which locomotives had them because they were added and removed over the years. Another road in the area which used them was the D&H. Go back through some of the D&H postings and you'll see what I mean. I am saving your locomotive posts.
Rob provided comments and information; I saved the TH&B material - always useful to have more about an underappreciated railroad.
Barndad had some fascinating material from RNE; I have a lot of those mags in one of the file cabinets in the east wing. The material on PRR 4877 was nice to see again, especially the shot of her on the Port Road. Also the NYC steam material was excellent to see again. The articles give you a good idea of what was behind the Central's steam fleet. Kiefer is well-known, of course, but Starbuck was the "man behind the curtain." As near as I can tell, not much is out there about him. Also anything by Phil Hastings is worth studying - one of the best, IMHO. He did some wonderful photography on the Boston and Maine which was gathered into a book awhile back; o/p of course, and PRICY when you find one - it sleeps on the B&M shelf in the collection.
The second batch of NYC pictures features a fine picture of a B&A 1400; truly a beast and unlikely to be confused with anything else. Design considerations dictated why appliances were placed on the locomotive the way they were. The feedwater heater up top is an example as is the monstrous sand dome. The shot of the 4-8-2 at Cincinnati shows old style lettering for subsidiary lines on the tender. Last, the one at Geneva, NY was great - Fall Brook Line outstanding!
Lars sent lots of material. The shots on the Big 4 at Bellefontaine were nice to see as well as the pictures at Englewood. The second batch of pictures had some interesting items relating to the "evolution" of the NYC Hudson. 5437 has an almost as-built smokebox, but check out the drivers and the long haul tender. 5450 has been seriously modified - again look at the smokebox, drivers, and the tender. You can date some of these pictures just by looking at the locomotive. NYC 6003, if you enlarge it, shows a mix of HW and LW cars; very typical for the time period. Last, thanks for the rerun of the diesels.
Dave paid us a visit. The Buffalo Terminal was almost destroyed by the local population plus some !@#$ political infighting. The building has been secured and stabilized and folks are trying to do something with it. Local group does tours every so often, lights the clock tower, etc.
DL visited , too - I always enjoy reading trip reports - the Chappel viaduct site is a good one.
OSP - Thanks again for keeping us going - I'll bet the Mentor and Southern Narrow Gauge is running several bottle and can extras to handle all the empties. Incidentally, the picture of the Boston section of the Century is immediately west of the station at Springfield - you can see part of the complex at the immediate left of the picture.
This last is a good one; sent to me by a friend in deepest Mingo County, WV. True stuff, trust me. Sorry abt the caps, but I didn't feel like retyping the entire list. BTW, I think Boris looks great in his skeleton suit.
YOU MIGHT BE A COAL MINER IF:
YOUR WOOD PILE IS COVERED WITH BRATTICE CLOTH
YOUR TRUCK FENDER IS PATCHED WITH DU PONT RESIN
YOUR TOMATO PLANTS ARE STAKED WITH ROOF BOLTS
YOU HAVE EVER BEEN LATE BECAUSE YOU STOPPED TO BUY SNUFF.
YOU BUY YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY'S SHOES AT THE IRON AGE STORE.
YOU HAVE A "JOY RULES" TATTOO.
YOUR FAVORITE BALL CAP HAS A SKOAL EMBLEM ON IT.
YOU CALL YOUR WIFE "BUDDY."
ALONG WITH THE SANDWICH IN YOUR BUCKET IS MSHA TAPE, CHANNEL LOCKS, AND A SCREWDRIVER.
YOUR CHEEK LOOKS LIKE A TUMOR EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A CHEW IN.
YOU HAVE EVER HAD GREASE IN YOUR EAR.
YOU COON HUNT WITH A "WHEAT LAMP".
YOUR GARAGE LOOKS LIKE AN ACE HARDWARE STORE.
YOUR DROP CEILING IS SUSPENDED BY SPADS.
YOUR KITCHEN TABLE IS A CABLE SPOOL.
COMP IS ANOTHER WORD FOR VACATION.
IF "OVERCAST" MEANS SOMETHING OTHER THAN A CLOUDY DAY.
YOU CAN PUT UP DRYWALL WITH A PICK HAMMER.
YOU HAVE A FLAME SAFETY LAMP ON YOUR FIREPLACE MANTLE.
YOU GOT YOUR NICKNAME FROM A TIME YOU SCREWED UP.
YOU HAVE EVER GREASED SOMEONE'S GLOVES.
YOU HAVE EVER GREASED A STEERING WHEEL ON A GOLF CART.
YOU HAVE EVER SAT ON TWO CEMENT BLOCKS TO GO TO THE BATHROOM.
YOU EVER DOUBLED BACK TO GET MORE SLEEP.
YOU RECEIVED A FLAT TIRE FROM "JACK ROCKS".
YOU READ ALL THESE AND LAUGH BECAUSE AT LEAST THREE OR MORE APPLY TO YOU.
Work safe
Hello Tom
Yes, I'll stand a round to all in.
I certainly did note the 2nd anniversary - not sure why I didn't make specific mention of it - must have just felt that raising an eyebrow (just like Mr Bond, James Bond) would be a suitably reserved, British style of marking the occasion!
I guess in reality it was because I'd pre prepared much of the post on the WP and then forgot to slot the right info in!
Certainly been plenty of good stuff to mark the occasion - Doug in particular has posted some thoroughly interesting info of some detail.
Pete - interesting stuff on the naming policy. I always felt BR naming policy after about 1975 (when names were 're-introduced') was a bit sqew whiff - apart from the class 50s that is with their Warship names. Very few naming policies post privatisation have been up to much either.
I just read the other day that Nigel Gresley was keen birder and that is why he selected bird names for many of his loco classes, but I guess you will expand on that in the next instalment of your info.
The occasion when the fish freights was mentioned was when I was down in Beeston with a mate who grew up there. I don't know if you know the station well, but there is a top quality pub adjacent to the platform (called the Victoria Hotel) and you can sit in the garden more or less right by the track. A public footbridge crosses the line here too (towards the old Plessey Telecoms Plant) and my mate was telling me about how they used to walk down there in the evenings to watch these express freights from said bridge. I guess they were coming down from Grimsby via Lincoln and on to Midland metals and heading for Trent Junction and the world.
Rob - when you look at the stuff some of the guys restore it would seem nothing is not really restorable - but even for the streetcar I mentioned they reckoned they'd need £ 300,000 I think. Mind you the standard of restoration they achieve in Crich is quite phenomenal - I suspect the cars look better than the days when they were in regular service. They have all undercover storage too which helps a lot of course.
Eric - I think you launched the Buffalo Central topic - looks impressive from your pictures so I'm going to see what else I can read up about that. A mega structure.
Meanwhile I've just managed to book a clutch of tickets for a reasonable price on the London - Penzance (in Cornwall) sleeper service (there and back overnight both ways) for later in May for a long weekend. Last time I took this trip we were waiting for our return journey and went up to take our pictures in front of the locomotive. The driver was doing the pre journey checks and just invited us up to have a good look in the cab! Real nice guy - clearly he could make a realistic assessment of the ‘security situation'.
Tom - that report back you had on Scotland and the scenic journey was 100% correct. As you say, if you can get that printing press cranked up you're under way. In the meantime I for one am looking forward to a trip report from yours and Pete's Eastern Canada expedition. I guess that is not too far off now?
All the best
PS - I found this site yesterday - of particular interest to anyone interested in publications and ephemera - Pete - I fond this as the author was featured in a Railway Magazine article for a I saw from a while back - his collections sounds prety impressive!
http://www.forsythe.demon.co.uk/
Oh and yes, CM3 - as you say that Chappel viaduct was interesting stuff - in real life it is impressive, but it was interesting to share the website with people, which I had to dig out for the purpose. We don't tend to have trestles here (the wooden ones we had got replaced by brick or stone inthe early 20th C).
Can I see the food menu by the way, I think I'll put in an order.
Good morning Ruth. I think I'll have a coffee with a spalsh as an eye openner and a number three to wash it down.Nice to see how good of a day we had ourselves yesterday, 5x {gold plated) for all for the efforts of yesterday. I see that the teutonic titans of the kitchen and Boris and Leon have managed to return the place to normal ( whatever that is )
Tom-Yes the count is back mwa-ha-ha,actually you may see a few more day visits from me, I seem to be getting more of the early day type shifts,which is a pleasant change.I will put a warning out though, the next three days I may seem a bit off,I'm finally getting risd of a pesky wisdom tooth this afternoon so with two of the four gone I will be about half as smart The weekly idiot, is well just that lets leave it at that
Doug-Wow the NYC stuff is still not bottomless,way to go we have set a new theme record by running it into a fourth day, and I imagine with no particular end in sight. Lars will be happy when he crawls in from the penthouse latter todayGreat info really top notch stuff sir
CM3-I'm glad you liked the TH&B stuff. I'll see if I can't dig up a bit more for all to enjoy. It is a well loved railway still today. the people in Hamilton still refer to it as their railroad with pride even though it hasn't existed in an independant form since 1986.They do still have the Srt deco station on Hunter street in Hamilton. It was lovingly restored stone by stone less than a decade ago, and still hosts passengers. Go transit uses it for the bus and train hub for Hamilton, and the CPR still bypasses the city streets of Hamilton using the tunnelss and bridges the TH&B put in in the 1930's to keep trains and casr and people separate from each other.
DL-The folks at Critch do , do an amazing job.There does come a time though when it's not a restoration but a remanufacture. Our museum does not have that level of funding to remake unfortunatly. As long as the main structures are sound we can restore. We estimate that the Guelph birney ( which is just the basic wooden frame work no side pannels or interior ) is most likely beyond our scope. All's not lost though as we have a more complete sister from the Windsor Sandwich & Exeter, which had a roof and intact sides. We just need to find a single taylor truck to put under it.Our equipment is 90% under cover, hopefully the next barn will be up before the end of next year and we can improve upon that number.
Ruth, a bit o' lunch is in order and today I'd like to try that great looking seafood salad special - #7 on the board if you please! A tankard of lager - Piels should be fine - and treats for the critters, small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris - a round on me - and the change is yours!
So, you're taking off for the weekend, huh Can't say as I blame you, for you worked that pretty looking off yesterday, for sure! <grin> Guess Da Bossman will be hanging 'round the joint tomorrow with Cindy aboard!
A great day was had by all who frequented the bar by the ballast to partake in our Second Anniversary Bash! Nice work, gents!
Does appear that we have a substantial amount of reading material, so much that I thought 20 Fingers himself returned with a mega-data-dump! Heaven forbid!!! <arrrrgggghhhh> I don't know when I'll get 'round to reading everything posted, but I'll tell ya this: the pix are great! <grin>
Very good to see DL from across the pond with two days in succession of fine readin' matter! Some witticisms from Shane (but no "report" from Mount Mentor's Ace Reporter for the Anniversary!!). A nice Friday, all begun with another NYC Water Level from our barn weevil, Doug!
I hope Cap'n Tom has taken the day off, for he deserves a rest, having spent the majority of the time here. How many acknowledgments did he put together??? At any rate, I think we've all demonstrated our willingness to kick start the 3rd year sufficiently forward so that we'll be 'round for an April 12th, 2008 Bash!
I've got a few things to attend to, and the Mrs. is not at all pleased with my inattentiveness lately. Says I'm spending far too much time on the 'puter. She's right. Heck, she's ALWAYS right! <grin> She's sooooooooooo right that even the PORT side of the ship is RIGHT! 'nuf of that . . .
Comment to Dave in Iraq: How does a USAF civilian investigator wind up with the USCG??
Comment to Pete: I see you got here almost immediately after I mentioned that you were needed. Hmmmmmmmm. Just where do you HIDE???? Back in the shed with one of Boris' "friends" perhaps?? Anyway, you did a fine job in keeping the stock up, the kitchen crew moving, and in general handling all the duties of Chandller of the Bar quite well! A tankard of brew for you too, Wolfman Pete!
Comment to Rob: Haven't seen the "Count Robulla" in some time! Those were the days, huh?? Night or day appearances most welcome and hope that your work situation has calmed sufficiently to where you can resume the title of "regular" at the bar.
Comment to BK: Don't know if you're checking us out, but let me just say that in rereading what you had to say, well, it was really heart warming! Great to have you back and just know that those of us who are your friends wish you 'n Lydia the absolute BEST!
Ok, that's IT from me today. Nasty weather and all, I'm gonna do what the Mrs. wants, and hope to catch some baseball AND hockey on the tube tonight. Just want to chill, chill, chill.
Well RUTH I had just have a quick coffee.but I have got a Doc's appointment in a bit.( by the way I noticed you are wearing a wide smile this morning RUTH, can't help but wonder why..
What a fantastic day yesterday and a great start today.I will have to fully read the recent posts and will do the acknowledgements later if I may.
It was great to talk with you,today TOM ..
I thought I would drop off the next installment
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 3)
LONDON MIDLAND & SCOTTISH RAILWAY. (LMS)
The two big rivals who put together in the LMS were the London & North Western Railway and the Midland Railway. When formed the LMS went with the MR small engine policy, which was found to be inadequate for the West Coast Main Line of the L&NWR. In a trial between a LNWR Claughton and a GWR Castle the Castle out performed the Claughton. The LMS asked the GWR for a set of Castle blueprints which request was refused but the SR allowed the LMS to have asset of their Lord Nelson drawings this formed the basis of the Royal Scot class of 4-6-0s.
The Royal Scot was the LMS rival to the LNER Flying Scotsman train from London to Scotland. The Royal Scot engines were named after regiments of the British army, although when first built a few Scots were named after early steam locomotives, that ran on lines the LMS now owned. These engines had a neat brass plate below the nameplate with an etched picture of the original loco named. Two of the Scots were named ‘The Boy Scout' and ‘The Girl Guide.
An interesting byline was that one Royal Scot went from having the shortest name to one having the equal longest when No 6121 went from H.L.I. to Highland Light Infantry, City Of Glasgow Regiment.
A smaller version of the Royal Scots was built. The first two of this class of 52 locos were nominally re-builds of Claughton class locos thought very little of the Claughtons was used in the new locos. The first loco was the L&NWR war memorial engine ‘Patriot' which the class was known as, although they were also called ‘Baby Scots' in their early days. 42 of the locos were named, with a mixture of names including more army regiments, seaside resorts served by the LMS, railway officials and two LNWR employees who won Britain's highest military medal, they were Private W. Wood V.C. and Private E. Sykes V.C.
When Stanier came to the LMS from the GWR his first passenger engines were the 192 Jubilee class, these locos were all named. The first loco was named for King George's V Silver Jubilee and had stainless steel numbers on the cab side. The next 86 locos were named after countries and their provinces tied to the British Empire or Commonwealth. Next were famous Admirals and sea battles, a few Ancient Greek legend heroes then British warships, some early locomotives and finishing with the four provinces of Eire.
For the Stanier pacifics a Royal theme was chosen with the Princess Royal class of 12. Then Stanier's masterpiece the Princess Coronation class, which followed the Royal theme after the first loco Coronation, with 2 Queens 2 Princesses 10 Duchesses the last 23 locos took their names from Cities served by the LMS, with two exceptions. No6244 King George VI and 6256 Sir William A. Stanier, F.R.S. named after their designer.
A picture of a nameplate on a Stanier class 5. Although this loco was not named in BR days it shows the etyle of nameplates fitted to the Jubilees. Out of 842 LMS Class 5s only 3 were named.
A pic showing the nameplate as fitted to the Duchess class, this was theonly class to have the name fitted to the boiler side. The crest above the name plate was fitted after preservation.
CM3 Shane at 9:15 AM today: Caint say anything ‘bout "You Might Be A Coalminer If . . ." other than to say it's a "cultural thang!" <grin>
Thanx for the quarters - round ‘n visit.
DL at 10:27 AM ‘n 10:30 AM today: Eavesdropping my way through your Post I find the commentary extremely interesting. One of the benefits of being a bartender . . .
From the description of the pub locale to the restoration comments to the forthcoming Penzance round trip overnighter, I'd say you've covered quit a bit of territory.
Of course Pete ‘n I will have much to "report" once our late May adventures in Canada are over. Speaking with the Wolfman today, I know he's excited about getting going - but of course FIRST we have our Rendezvous in St. Louis!
Thanx for the Posts on this day and yesterday AND of course the round!
Rob at 11:14 AM today: So Count Robulla, you are cruising about in daylight, eh Didn't think "your ilk" could handle the brightness. <grin>
Have a suggestion for YOU: We haven't had a Chief Chef since the days (daze) of Nick - so why don't you take that OPEN position??? With the H&H gals in constant need of supervision and your familiarity with the way things are done ‘round here, you'd be a natural for the job. Heck, you don't have to a be a culinary magician, as Nick was, this is a tavern after all!! Kitchen is only open on Thursday thru Saturday nights anyway and Boris has the breakfasts and sandwiches "covered" during the other times. C'mon, you've "earned" it! <grin>
Hope the dentist "thing" went as well as anything like that can. <ouch>
Many thanx for the visit!
Lars at 12:30 PM today: The Manager made it in on "the day after"!
Quite a turnout yesterday and the accolades are still coming in. I concur about the enormity of the material - perhaps a wee bit too much reading, but the "stuff" is really top shelf!
I pretty much did remain away from the keyboard for most of the day and managed to get some outside "things" accomplished ‘round the Haus. Rains are on the way and the grass was looking in need of cutting. Third time I've done so - really odd so early in the spring.
Interesting question you posed of Dave - I'm wonderin' the same thing, especially with my background.
Nice to see you commenting favorably in the direction of Wolfman the Bar Chandler!
Concur wholeheartedly with the words directed to BK ‘n Lydia!
Enjoy the weekend and chill, man, chill! Hope to see ya tomorrow . . .
Pete at 12:56 PM today: Really a treat speaking with you today. Especially interesting since I'm beginning to actually understand what you're saying! <grin>
Appreciate the Part Tres of your British Big Four Railway Companies. They're all stacked up in the Rat's Patoot Room Library Wing! <grin>
Amazing how much detail goes into things like name plates . . . but then again, these are the things Classic Railroading is made of!
Hope to see ya on Saturday, and of course, hope the weekend is relaxing for you ‘n your bride!
Leon, set 'em up - drinks on the house! Boris, ring the chimes!
Good morning Leon! Nice to see you again! I know, I missed last night, had to work late and get up early in the morning. I just had a quick look through the window last night. This place was really crowded, wasn't it? Yeah, I saw Manager Lars going up to the Penthouse suite with a bottle of wine in his hand. Yes, he was smiling all the way! How about a ham sandwich? It sounds good! Coffee, please!
A very busy day at Our Place yesterday! Oh, sorry, I mean the day before yesterday! A lot to read and learn! And a bunch of very nice pictures! Today it is only 34 days to the Rendezvous!
Doug – Thanks for the nice words! You have worked hard and posted a lot of interesting material these two days!! One of the first things I saw was those nice pictures of the RDCs catching up lost minutes! Interesting story about GG1 #4877! (And a nice picture of it!) For how many years did it run for NJ Transit after it was painted in Tuscan Red and where is it now? Thanks for the article, “Rails Northwest”! 79” drivers on the Hudsons! I would say that is pretty good size drivers! Interesting info on NYC’s more famous steam locomotives! The Niagaras could out perform a two-unit E7!? With speed/traveling time?Very interesting to read about the booster! I think that Class L2a was a very good looking locomotive, not too big just big and stromng enough!Tasting terrible after “Wash. Biol. Surv”? What did they expect? That was a good one!I love that picture of the two fork lifts working as a team!Tom – I am very familiar with Murphy’s Laws! I have tried them all and then some! Good to see our 1st mascot, Juneau! The money printing press? I think Boris has it in the shed.A young lady took the picture of the three of you? Why do I have a feeling that her name was Cindy? Quite a few idiots around! CM3 – I love that story about B&A and New Haven! I agree with Tom, put all these stories in a book! I’ll be more than happy to buy a number of them!
Maybe I was a coal miner in my previous life? No, probably not, but I laughed anyway! No, I would say laptops were barely invented in 1989. But we (the railroad) bought one for us in early 1990! BK – Glad to see you at the Bar again, Sir! Thanks for the drink! No chance that I would forget to add your initials to the 2. We are all novices in one way or other. If we are strictly talking about railroads I have a lot to learn! And a good place to learn a lot about railroads is here, at “Our” Place! Lars – I noticed all those 2’s hanging from the ceiling! Even in the restroom! I saw Boris took two of them back to the shed. Sending Ruth to the Penthouse suite? And then what? Very nice pictures of the NYC steam locomotives! It is amazing to see how almost identical the last two pictures (of the Niagara) are. The same angle and the engineer hanging out through the window!Nice color pictures of the diesels! The more I see of them the more I like Alco’s PAs even though the engineer’s view forward must have been obstructed by the hood at close distances.Rob – Thanks for the TH&B/NYC ad and schedules! From what year? Port Maitland is in Canada, right? I just noticed that Tom had the answer to my question, Ontario.DL – Railroad cars for fish? Even if I have Friday Fish a few times every year I think one have to be a cat to really like it! Or am I wrong? Interesting to see though that they had trains loaded with fish. Thanks for the info on the “cousins” of V200! I am not sure what kind of diesels Norwegian State Railways has. Diesel hydraulics that is. Interesting article by Christian Wolmar about “Freight pays the price of Europe’s rail paradox”! Seems like one of very few European railroads making money on freught is the Swedish Green Cargo! Buffalo Central Terninal is an impressive building! It is sad it isn’t used as a railroad station any more.
This is ENCORE! Saturday - and - Photo Posting Day!
"Our" Place is CLOSED on Sundays!
Saturday in chilly, rainy and blustery mid-continent USA where the petrol prices are at $2.79 (rounded). Appears to be a slow start, but a start nonetheless - so draw yourself a cuppa Joe, grab a pastry or two and order a <light> or <traditional> breakfast ‘n let's kick start the weekend!
With no suggestions for a Tuesday Theme for the Day, I'll either go with something from the archives, or skip it. Remember, whoever "suggests" must "kick it off"!
Eric at 2:20 AM today: Figured that something like work kept you from your previous night's Post. But not to worry, you began the festivities for our 2nd Year Anniversary in a most memorable fashion with your innovative ‘n inclusive "2"!!
Seems as if you've managed to salvage quite a bit of your X2000 experiences on film, which is always a treasure to possess. Being able to "go back" for review of the times, places ‘n faces means a lot. One of these days (daze) I'm going to have to sort through my scores of Pix (35mm slides and others) . . . . Yeah, right! <grin>
Anyway, THANX for sharing those memories with us; puts a lot into perspective, fer sure, fer sure!
Yes, we ARE indeed approaching a time when we can say, "In less than a month . . . " our Rendezvous will begin!
Wonder WHY Manager Lars would be carrying a bottle of wine up to the Penthouse Suite when I know "first hand" that the stock in the Manager's Bar was just replenished????? Hmmmmm - and in daylight hours at that! <uh oh>
I could only WISH that Cindy had made the adventure to Toronto. Nope, was just a waiting passenger who was gracious enough to take that shot of 2 "old guys" and a youngster. Now where did I put her phone number??? <grin>
Always happy to have you on board - enjoy the weekend!
Reminder: Cindy has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Ruth has the weekend OFF. This is Steak ‘n All The Trimmings Nite! with dinner beginning at 5 PM!
ENCORE! Saturday - 'n - Photo Posting Day!
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #12
New York Central Railroad
Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 122 of the original Thread
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
New York Central System (NYC) Headquarters: New York City Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 1,965 Electric: 65 Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars: 94,115 Passenger cars: 2,905 Principal routes in 1950: New York-Buffalo, NY-Cleveland, OH-Chicago, IL Buffalo-Detroit, MI-Porter, IN (Chicago) Boston, MA-Albany, NY Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati, OH Gallion, OH-St. Louis, MO Chicago-Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati Indianapolis-Peoria, IL Cleveland-Pittsburgh, PA Detroit-Toledo, OH-Springfield, OH Toledo-Columbus, OH-Charleston, WVA Utica, NY-Montreal, QC Passenger trains of note: Chicagoan (New York-Cleveland-Chicago) Chicago Mercury (Chicago-Detroit) Cincinnati Mercury (Cleveland-Cincinnati) Cleveland Mercury (Detroit-Cleveland) Cleveland Limited (New York-Cleveland) Commodore Vanderbilt (New York-Chicago) Detroiter (New York-Detroit) Detroit Mercury (Cleveland-Detroit) Empire State Express (New York-Buffalo) James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati) Knickerbocker (New York-St. Louis) Lake Shore Limited (New York-Cleveland-Chicago) The Michigan (Chicago-Detroit) Motor City Special (Chicago-Detroit) New England States (Chicago-Cleveland-Boston) Ohio State Limited (New York-Cleveland-Cincinnati) Pacemaker (New York-Cleveland-Chicago) Southwestern Limited (New York-St. Louis) 20th Century Limited (New York Chicago) Twilight Limited (Chicago-Detroit) Wolverine (Chicago-Detroit-New York) Enjoy! Tom
Good morning Tom and friends. I'll have a light breakfast, and whatever kind of cake that Eric was eating during his "coffee" break. Enjoyed the commentary from CM3 on the stuff we post, as usual, but the coalminer test at the end proved that I was definitely not a coalminer. Still , it was amusing. Manager Lars seems to be keeping to the secret areas and hidden passageways of the bar these days. It would be interesting to track his movements with a GPS one of these days. More great stuff from Eric as usual, and the part III British piece from Pete. Sure wish I could answer the questions that extend beyond the scope of the articles submitted, but I would need other articles to do it! I see Captain Tom also survived the recent festivities, and appreciate the kind words directed the way of this unworthy one. Nice continuation of the NYC theme too!
Yesterday turned out to be interesting for moi. The shelves were empty at work, so I did a little traveling, which started at the Metra train station in Crystal Lake. See the snow? By evening it was gone, as we had a nice sunny and warmish day
This is part of the Millenium Park in Chicago. Check out the silver "bean" on top.
Anyhow, here's the reason I was interested in getting to the Millenium Park ... it houses a the Metra South Shore Electric Line
The engineer of my train was nice enough to let me photograph the control console. He really didn't know much about the equipment though, other than it was built in the 70's, and was soon to be replaced.
These guys said I could take this picture too. The seats were the most comfortable I have been in.
I exited at the 55-56-57th street station. Later today, you will see why!
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