Ahoy Cap'n Tom ‘n fellow travelers at the bar!
I MUST make "public" comment about my "bookend" - BK. That email he sent to a limited number of us really "got to me." Surely am doing the best I can in passing positive thoughts their way. Lydia is as close to being "one of us" as any. Such a sad and hopefully not tragic turn of events. ‘nuf said.
Ruth my deAH, would you care to join me "upstairs" for a bit o' <light> breakfast I'm sure Boris can watch things for a bit . . . . oooooh, yeah, I forgot, Tom doesn't permit him behind the bar. <drat it>
I think a mugga coffee with a "jolt" should get me started along with a couple of goodies from the bakery case. Keep the change my deAH! <grin>
Excellent "point" brought up by Da Boss. That "copyright" stuff isn't anything to fool with and take it from me - who has been admonished by Kalmbach - doesn't matter whether you agree with the "rules" or not, best to be SURE of your material B4 posting it. (We probably should mention this more often ‘round here . . . .)
Noted that a French TGV has just set a new rail speed record of 357.2 mph.
So, ‘tis PENNSY Day here at the bar by the ballast and a return to the Tuesday "theme." May I suggest the New York Central for next week???? Huh, huh, PU-LEEEEEZE!
Nice work from Da Boss for the PRR Fallen Flag submission!
Not to repeat what's already been said, just want to make note of the posts from the guys since I was last "in." What in the world is going on with Wolfman??? Can't seem to figure out mid to late afternoon, huh?? And to think the Prime Meridian passes through Merry Olde! <grin>
Not the busiest of Mondays, and there was a bit of a drought, however, always pleasing to see the guys (Doug - Shane - James - Pete - Eric) in support of what our Proprietor has put forth for us all. Nice work, gents!
No guys, the "present" from Ruth is "personal" and after all, we ARE in the place where the "world can see," as Doug reminded us! <grin>
Didja "catch" that near-professional "job" put out by Shane this morning on the Pennsy??? Man oh man does he know how to put it together. The descriptions were about as "real" as could be and truly brought to mind some stirring thoughts of those times ‘n places. A fantastic and most appreciated piece of work from the man they call "coalminer"! A gold-5 Salute to Shane!
Ok - so, now it's my turn for some Pennsy "stuff" - watch out world, here she comes! <grin>
Until the next time!
Lars
Hello all
Just a quick beer while I post this link (picks up on Lars message)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6521295.stm
and
From today's paper:
France's famous TGV, the Train à Grande Vitesse, is about to get even faster. The high-speed train will try to break its own world record today by rocketing along at least 335 mph.
French rail officials confirmed the attempt would go ahead after checking weather forecasts. With the right meteorological conditions, the TGV may even reach speeds of up to 354...mph, breaking the 320.2mph record it set 17 years ago.
The modified black V150 train consisting of three double-decker cars sandwiched between two engines, will make the attempt on the new high-speed line between Paris and Strasbourg on France's border with Germany.
The French state rail operator SNCF says it has already broken the record on several test runs since January, reaching speeds of 342 mph. These speeds have not, however, been officially verified.
"This is the official day," said an SNCF spokesman. "There will be monitors in place and we'll see what speed we can hit."
The attempt, which is planned to start at 13.01, is expected to be broadcast live on French lunchtime television news. Travelling from Strasbourg, the V150 is expected to go from 0 to 62 mph in 60 seconds. It is scheduled to reach its maximum speed after around 15 minutes.
The V150 - named for the target number of metres it should do per second - has larger wheels than a normal TGV to cover more ground with each rotation. The electricity in the overhead cable has been boosted from 25,000 volts to 31,000v.
Two of its cars have been turned into rolling laboratories monitoring every second of the record-breaking attempt, which will also be filmed by plane.
Driving the train, and fulfilling every young boy's dream, is Eric Pieczak, 46, who has been operating TGVs since last year.
"He'll have his eyes riveted to the control board because at more than [342mph] the countryside will be passing too fast to see anything at all," said an SNCF spokesman. "He's in charge of acceleration and braking which must be done in a finely honed and progressive manner."
A traction engineer will direct the driver at what point to increase the speed and a third engineer will oversee the operation. One hundred police officers and gendarmes will be stationed along the route to guarantee security and bridges over the high-speed line will be closed to traffic.
The train, manufactured by Alstom, took 300 engineers more than 14 months to make. It measures 106 metres (348ft), weighs 268 tonnes and has 25,000hp engines.
The record attempt is the culmination of several months of tests and trials estimated to have cost at least £20m.
Engineers have been building the state-of-the-art Paris-to-Strasbourg TGV line for five years. It is one of the biggest rail projects in Europe employing some 10,000 workers and 78,000 tonnes of steel - the equivalent of eight Eiffel towers. It will open in June.
In Britain the country's fastest train is the Eurostar which can reach speeds of up to 186mph. However, travelling at 354mph the TGV would cover the distance between London to Edinburgh in 64 minutes.
Engineers say data from tomorrow's test will also improve the security and comfort of passengers in the future.
"Beyond the technical exploit, this is part of an attempt to record data on the behaviour of the infrastructure and of the rolling stock in extreme conditions, which are impossible to reproduce in the laboratory," said a joint statement from SNCF, Alstom and the network operator, RFF.
It added that everything, including the infrastructure, rails and weather, had been meticulously checked.
"Such a project does not leave anything to chance."
Named Passenger Trains
from the Classic Era - Number One
Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)
Caveat: This list is not intended to be all inclusive but rather a compilation reflective of perhaps the more noted trains of the day.
The Pennsylvania Railroad operated several dozen named passenger trains. They include:
Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!
A trio of GG-1's take a train near Chase, Maryland.
(Courtesy of artist: Gilbert Bennett - www.xmission.com)
A pennsy "Truck Train" pulled by E-44s near Lancaster, PA.
A brace of Pennsy F-units bring a train downhill into Altoona, PA.
The Broadway Limited
Some of the finest RR art around, wouldn't you agree
Enjoy!
Tom
Hi Tom and all.
A round for the house please RUTH.
Hopefully to save myself a'Tweeting'.We have had a round of heavy Thunder-storms round here and the siren went off twice, so I have only just got on the puter, then the batteries in the mouse gave out.. Anyway I have a quick glance at the posts and want to have a good read before I post so hopefully I will be in later provided the storms have finished.
The storms are heading east I hope they abate before they get to where you are TOM.
Pete.
Good evening Tom and gang. I'll have a bottomless draught and buy a round for the house. Nice PRR routes, train names, pictures and posters from you today. Absolutely incredible first-hand accountings from CM3 today, who combines a talent for noticing detail during his many rail excursions. Very well done, and very interesting. Wonderful book covers from manager Lars today too. All look very interesting. Lars posted the new French rail record speed, and DL provided the link with all the info. Thanks for sharing go to both of you. Looks like Peter is first to catch the storms rolling east. We're about 67 degrees here right now, but soon to drop to 29. Unbelievable. Here is another Pennsy piece:
Pennsy Steam and Semaphores by Fred Westing
On the Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1890's, the brunt of passenger train operations was borne by locomotives of the American 4-4-0 type. The wheel arrangement had long been established on most American railroads, and as trains grew heavier and schedules speedier the American type was merely made larger and more powerful to meet those newer conditions.
During most of the 19th century's last decade, class P was the Pennsy's most advanced design of this type. Contemporary with class P, was class O, another 4-4-0 type locomotive. Both classes worked passenger trains on the Philadelphia Division. On the Middle Division between Harrisburg and Altoona, class O was a fixture of high-speed passenger service. West of Pittsburgh class O was used on the best trains as some were ten-wheelers of the 4-6-0 type. Originally class X, and later class G3, with 68" drivers, they also worked the top-name trains, and frequently headed the Pennsylvania Limited. This class made its appearance in road service in 1893, when they were built.
Class P did exceptionally fine work on the two-hour trains between New York and Philadelphia. Here they duplicated speed made by trains fifty years later. This does not mean that progress was not made, for train loads of the nineties were comparatively light with 300 tons considered very heavy, while 130 tons was about the average train weight. It should be pointed out that while locomotives were much larger in later years, trains were correspondingly heavier. Average train loads ran from 600 to 800 tons, and trains exceeding 1,000 tons frequently made the schedules with power in reserve, while the old locomotives of the nineties with their much lighter loads were pushed to the limit of their power.
Among the name trains in the decade of the 1890's and early twentieth century, was one of the oldest named trains in the United States. It was known as the "Fast Line" and ran between New York and Pittsburgh. This name was derived from the Pioneer Fast Line which operated in the 1830's, and by means of railroad and canal boat transportation conveyed passengers and freight between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in 3 ½ days. Another fine train in the 1890's was the Pennsylvania Limited, originated in 1881 as the New York & Chicago Limited.
In 1893 a large addition was made to the original Broad Street Station building. This new building was designed by Furness, Evans & CO. architects of Philadelphia. The first Broad Street Station building was designed and built by Wilson Brothers of Philadelphia. This was the section that included the distinctive clock tower at the northern end of the station. Opened in December 1881, it made connection with the main line in West Philadelphia by means of an elevated multitracked structure known for many years to Philadelphia as the Chinese Wall. A four-tracked steel bridge, also the work of Wilson Brothers & Co. carried trains across the Schulylkill River.
Preceding classes O and P, but doing much work in the 1890's was a locomotive introduced on the road in 1881. Known as class K, it represented high efficiency for that day. Of a group of eighteen the first one was No. 10, and engineer John A. Covert, who later became Road Foreman of Engines, of the New York Division, brought engine 10 from Altoona to that division in June 1881. Engine No. 10 was quickly named "long legged Ten" due to its high-wheeled 78 inch drivers, accentuated in great part by the seemingly small boiler. This engine with its general cleanlined appearance and omission of the former gingerbread mouldings seen on most locomotives in those days possessed unusual symmetry for an American locomotive.
On class K the firebox was placed on top of the main frames which made it shallow at the throat sheet. Subsequently all Pennsy standard 4-4-0's provided for a deeper firebox throat by inclining the top main frame rails downwardly at the front.
A novel feature on class K was the use of a power reverse gear. This was a desirable detail on a locomotive using 140 lb. steam pressure with unbalanced slide valves. The combined use of steam and oil which locked the gear in any desired position was operated by a small lever in the cab. While reliable in service, it was abandoned when balanced slide valves came into use.
An interesting comparison was made between engine No. 10 and No. 724, one of the older engines of class A (later class D1) is listed below:
During the week ending June 18, 1881, the car mileage of engine No. 10 was 7,209 miles and , therefore, the total consumption of coal was 7,209 X 8.32 equals 59,978.8 lbs. If we take the same car mileage for engine No. 724, we would have a coal consumption of 7,209 X 12.76 equals 91,986.8 lbs., or a savings in one week of 91,986.8 minus 59,978.8 equals 32,008 lbs. by engine No. 10.
Both engines were of the 4-4-0 type, but class K was, as shown, indicative of progressive development as compared with Pennsy 4-4-0 American type engines that preceded it.
Class K was the work of Theodore N. Ely, then Superintendent of Motive Power at Altoona, and from 1893 to 1911, Chief of Motive Power of the Pennsylvania Railroad east and west of Pittsburgh. Mr. Ely's artistic ability was responsible for much of class K's uncluttered lines, and Axel Vogt, his ever capable Mechanical Engineer at Altoona, ably assisted him in this approach to locomotive construction by his meticulous attention to the design of many of the engine's details.
To show the speed capabilities of these class K locomotives, two instances can be cited. On March 10, 1890, Albert M. Palmer's Madison Square Theatre Company, traveled on a three-car special train from New York to Washington, D.C. The occasion was to provide a performance of the play "Aunt Jack" which many Washingtonians were anxious to see.
Over the New York Division the original K class engine No. 10, rushed the train to Philadelphia (Grays Ferry) in considerably less than two hours, averaging about 57 mph for the entire distance. From that point class P engine No. 35, similar in many respects to class K, but with 68" drivers, made the run to Washington in 2 hours and 35 minutes, averaging nearly 60 mph, start-to-stop. Considering the fact that this latter part of the trip was double-tracked only, for a considerable distance, and traffic so heavy that several slow downs had to be made, commendable credit is due the train dispatchers and engine crew on this more difficult and lengthier part of the run.
Mr. Palmer had stipulated with the railroad that at the conclusion of the Washington performance, his theatrical group would have to immediately return to New York as they were committed to present an eight o'clock performance that evening in New York City. Again classes P and K gave their "performance" and the show that same evening made its scheduled appearance.
"Long legged ten" as it came from Altoona. Put into road service on March 25, 1881, this was the pioneer of the famous "K" class. With their 78 inch drivers they were real high-wheelers, and could make good speed. Later, these locomotives had extended smokeboxes with the headlight supported on top of it.
Evening again Tom and friends. I'm ready for another bottomless draught. Is anyone ready for another round? The following is from a 1989 Electroliner magazine:
PENN STATION TODAY
General Electric E60 locomotives handle both Amtrak and New Jersey Transit trains, although most Amtrak service is handled by the high performance AEM-7, a locomotive also under consideration by New Jersey Transit. Various classes of stainless steel commuter equipment replaced the old MP54 cars by the late 1970s. Metroline service, very well patronized, is handled by locomotives rather than the fast multiple-unit cars of 1969. On the Long Island side, since the early 1970s, standard M-1 (and newer M-3) commuter cars have replaced numerous varieties of older equipment. Locomotive-hauled trains disappeared prior to the retirement of the DD-1 locomotives in 1952, but may return behind rebuilt dual-service FL9 units which last visited Penn Station with New Haven equipment in the 1960s.
PRR L-6 No. 4790 was one of the last class to toil around the Penn Station complex. March 25, 1967. Allan Roberts
A repainted B-1 "Rat" No. 3913 switching the varnish at Sunnyside Yard New York for the flagship trains of the great Tuscan Red Mainline
Totally gone are the boxcab switchers as all yard work is handled by diesels, or by an electric unit in the enclosed station yard. The aging Long Island Rail Road substations were transferred to utility power. Like the old station service building on West 31st Street, it remains a hulking remnant of the PT&T project, although it has been sold for other uses.
DD-1s 4780 and 4781, the last of their kind are safe in the hands of the Pennsylvania State Transportation Museum in Strasburg, Pa. DD-1s extended their useful lives by hauling wire trains to repair overhead in the tunnels in and out of Penn Station
L6A No. 5940 rests at Penn Station. 5940 was the only Lima-built L6A to be electrically completed and operated. The others rusted at Altoona, Pennsylvania, never turning a revenue wheel
Modernization of the current station plus a new Long Island entry west of 8th Avenue will ease crowding. Long Island service has been improved by a new storage yard near 11th Avenue. An anticipated connection will allow Amtrak service from upstate New York to enter over the former New York Central West Side Freight Line. Technical modernization in the areas of signaling, dispatching and other systems will improve operation. Although the magnificent building designed by McKim, Mead and White and built by George Fuller in 79 months was destroyed in less than 36, the great engineering effort remains. Performing as it was intended, the efficient complex is both the busiest Amtrak and the busiest commuter facility in the nation. Made possible by electrification, Alexander Cassatt's achievement is now the only U.S. rail facility with every long-distance run operated either totally or in major part by electric power.
Other candidates for switching duty at Penn Station were the class O-1 locomotives. No. 7583 sits at Penn Station in 1960 along with GG-1s and New Haven EP-3s.
It's March 8, 1960 and GG-1 No. 4884 has just emerged from the Hudson River tunnel connecting Manhattan Island and New Jersey. The large left gate doors built to seal off the tunnels in case of emergency. A large office building now covers this sections of the approach to Penn Station.
[I:]Sitting in the bar George asked his 40-year-old buddy Johnny, "How come you
aren't married?"
Johnny: "I haven't found the right woman yet."
George: "So what are you looking for?"
Johnny: "Oh she's got to be real pretty, - a good cook and house-keeper, and
she's got to know how to handle money, a really nice and pleasant personality is
a must -and money, she's got to have money...and a home, a nice big house, is
what she has to have."
George: "A woman like that would be crazy to marry YOU."
Johnny: "Oh, its okay if she is crazy." [I:]
A pint of Bathams and another round, for a great Pennsy Theme day, please LEON.
I think you all have done justice to what; no doubt was one of the greatest railroads in North America. Started by ERIC with the photo of the GG1 in the freight livery, that is another of those wonderful liveries that seem to change color with the lighting conditions, like the D&H blue. DOUG with those great steam photos and very full descriptions. It was good to see a photo of the Altoona test plant. There was one in my hometown it was one of two in Britain.
I can only echo LARS thoughts on the marvelously evocative piece by CM3. It really would be great to travel that route with CM3 as a guide but I would imagine it is a far different scene today. Then those wonderful Pennsy book covers by LARS, it would interesting to know how the Pennsy got on with those Fairbanks Morse diesel locomotives. Well TOM a great PRR day, I can see why it is one of your favorite roads. The list of named trains is impressive as we have said before a name to a train gives that extra feeling of occasion when traveling by rail. I wonder how many of those 3,546 passenger cars in1963 were passed on to Amtrak. Many thanks for those great posters and yes that is some very fine railroad art indeed, you can almost here those locomotives in the paintings.
Certainly a to you all,Gentlemen
I see that no less than 16 GG1s have been preserved with PRR # 4918 in the Museum of Transportation at St Louis
GG1 4890 at the NRM Green Bay WIS
ERIC I have got interested on those Grampian cars and I will find out more. When I looked for references on the net a couple of links referred me to Our Place. I think Tom should get a fee for every view.
QPR had a very good side at one time although they are struggling a bit lately.
DOUG I too looked at the IRM web site for those 900s. I do hope one was saved.
Don't know what to say about the Panda joke.
CM3 Can you pass on my CONGRATULATIONS to the young man on such a great result in the Geography Tournament.
Glad you enjoyed the steam photos and thanks for the kind words on my ‘promotion', not many have thought me a management material..
Well you see LARS, if it was 10.15 PM in England it would be 3.15 pm here so I would be on time. I blame it all on changing the clocks.
I see you noted as well the new French Speed record; well they can have it with these new fangled machines as long as we have the one that really matters, with steam.
DL Thanks for the links and the details on the French record breaking run. They certainly went to great lengths and spent a lot of money to make it a success, even raising the supply voltage. I don't know about you, but I don't think the Maglev can be counted as a rail speed record, as when it achieves those speeds it is not in contact with the rails, but that is just my humble opinion.
TOM Glad the link to the KC Star worked OK. Perhaps we should have a competition what will go wrong with my puter next.No prize for saying it is the operator
It is great that ROB may be back at the bar soon. I sure could do with some more advice on the chandeling I was hoping to perhaps get a new puter with the wages but my bar bill is much larger than the pay Lars gives me.
I hope you did not get the storm which as passed through. I think Juneau will appreciate the cooler temperature, which as followed the storm..
I see Doug has posted some more on the PRR. So I will post this have a beer and have a read so set them up please LEON
.
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Pennsylvania Railroad
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05039r.jpg
Philadelphia Broad Street Station
http://www.prrths.com/Phila_Images/broad_1841.JPG
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1046/photos/138282pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1000/pa1046/photos/138287pv.jpg
West Philadelphia
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05041r.jpg
Harrisburgh
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b00000/3b05000/3b05000/3b05043r.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa0900/pa0995/photos/133454pv.jpg
Hackensack substation & Hudson River tunnel portal
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112366pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112367pv.jpg
Newark
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112350pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112361pv.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rn1-242.jpg.50203.jpg
Elizabeth, NJ
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112349pv.jpg
Trenton, NJ
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/nj/nj0900/nj0939/photos/112333pv.jpg
Philadelphia 30th Street Station
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140427pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140425pv.jpg
Wilmington
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/de/de0200/de0240/photos/032244pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/de/de0200/de0240/photos/032248pv.jpg
Baltimore
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/md/md0600/md0603/photos/086297pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/md/md0600/md0603/photos/086304pv.jpg
Washington
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/dc/dc0500/dc0507/photos/030163pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/dc/dc0500/dc0507/photos/030166pv.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/p/PC6812181034w.jpg.27435.jpg
Jersey City
http://kc.pennsyrr.com/photos/images/pc_jerseycity.jpg
http://www.jerseycityonline.com/jc_photos/old/i-1rt54.jpg
New York
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/51743312.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=E8AD80131F4169CC73E967FFCB3467C5
http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2559/imagesxs7cd.jpg
http://images.nypl.org/?id=1558476&t=w
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/331934701_03ab049582_b.jpg
http://www.architectureweek.com/cgi-bin/awimage?dir=2003/0723&article=building_1-2.html&image=12210_image_3.jpg
Horseshoe Curve
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/015_15_3.jpg.45562.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/017_17_2.jpg.33483.jpg
Long Island Rail Road
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/44300266_08fb00c35f_b.jpg
Subway map
http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ebrennan/subway/SubwayMap.gif
Light reading, Origin of Railway Semaphore
http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/semaphor/semhist.htm
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- A coffee will do me for now, thanks!
I will drop off my Pennsy pics and have acknowlegements tomorrow.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=171315
This would be located in North Philadelphia at the station entrance on the Pennsy.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=172297
How about a GG1. They were some cool looking electrics besides the Little Joe and th Box Cab!
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=181585
What about the largest locomotives here in North America if not the world. The Pennsy's Baldwin made Cenntipedes. They have to be one of the largest that I know of. What monsters.
Sorry for the quick post but I have to go out and finish the snow blowing. We got over a foot in 12 hours... yikes.
James
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
No, thank you Leon, I must leave in a few minutes, so I'll just have a cup of coffee! I know, same as last night!
A lot to read about PRR today! I am impressed! This took much more time than expected!
Doug – A very interesting article about PRR and some of its locomotives (and signals). Never heard about engine #318 before! Also interesting to read about Class P and Class K! I wonder when the last locomotives of those classes were retired? I visited Sunnyside yard a couple of times. An interesting and different place! Nice pictures of the electrics including GG1!Tom – Good news from Rob. Hope to see him soon!I agree 100% about being careful with copyrighted stuff. That is why I only use my own pictures and some I got from friends that gave me permission to use their pictures. I don’t think I would start in Nova Scotia, Toronto is okay for me for a trip across most of Canada. Glad you liked the GG1. I actually got a model of GG1 from Amtrak when I left.Thanks for the PRR info and posters! At least I can say I have been riding on most of PRR’s old main lines! Never to Atlantic City though! PRR had a lot of named trains! Interesting list of their routes!The X2000 ran as Congressional Special 05/16/93.Very nice pictures of GG1s, E-44s and F-units! Thank you!CM3 – Congratulations to the youg man! I would say 6th is very good out of 100+. Geography was my favorite subject in school! That interest made me start collecting maps and I still do. Thanks for the trip from Penn Station to Baltimore! When I read your story I could see the places you mentioned in front of me! I guess the Penn Station you mentioned is the one that is no more. Today everything is down in the basement under Madison Square Garden! But I like it anyway.
Penn Station 1993.
The Hudson Tunnel.
Lars – Nice Pennsy book covers! Wish I had those books, but I don’t know when I would have time enough to read them all! DL – 357.2 mph by TGV 150 today! Below is a link to a video about today’s event!http://a456.g.akamai.net/7/456/34233/v2/sncf1.download.akamai.com/34233/jour_j/post_record/popup_post_record_en.htmlThanks for all info on the train and everything around it! 357.2 mph is kind of fast. Pete – I know QPR have been struggling for a number of years now. Too sad. Nice picture of GG1 4890! I can see that the rear pantograph is “reaching” for the sky! Mike – A lot of Url’s with pictures from the North East Corridor plus some other places! I especially like the one of Union Station, Washington D.C. where you can see K-Tower and that turntable. I did not know there used to be a turntable at that location! James – Let the snow melt away! Thanks for those pictures! Baldwin BP-60 was a different one to say the least!
Eric
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
Wednesday's Witticism
Politician: Someone who can borrow $20, pay you back $10 and declare you're even because you both lost $10.
G'day Gents!
Mid-week in mid-continent USA - time for a cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast to round it out.
Mets won! Mets won! Are they THAT good or are the Cards THAT slow in starting up??? Give credit where it's due, "they" say - but it's good for the River City fans that the bad guys didn't play this well last fall. <grin>
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 9:23 AM yesterday: Back to full form and with quite a Post on the Pennsy too! Dittos to the accolades previously given - all well deserved, fer sure, fer sure!
Fine effort on the part of your son at the competition. I'm sure you and your bride are very proud of his efforts.
The "thing" about those special trains, such as "The Canadian," is that for people like me, we prefer to see ‘em the way they were in the best of times, not when "things" were beginning to spell the beginning of the end. When "Classic Trains" ran their special commemoration for the 50th anniversary of that fine train, they "blew it" with the centerfold Pix using the "action red' livery rather than the "original" maroon ‘n grey. That's my take on "it."
Your point on Penn Station being a "through" station as opposed to Grand Central being the ‘terminal" is a key point and one that I hope wasn't "lost." There is and was a significant difference. Appreciate your bringing it out.
Row houses with marble steps - yes! I remember ‘em from my stays in Baltimore during the summers of the late 1940s . . . Last time I visited those "old haunts" one needed an armored vehicle to drive the streets; sad.
Thanx for the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Lars at 10:57 AM yesterday: A fine Pennsy contribution AND for that - your wish is granted. NEXT Tuesday's Theme will be the New York Central. HOWEVER, YOU must "kick it off." That's the price one pays for offering a suggestion . . . .
Really enjoyed your book covers (as always) and I can still "see" those diesels and GG1s in my mind's eye.
DL at 12:05 PM yesterday: Our Euro-connection provided quite an elaboration on the TGVs new rail speed record.
Always good to have you aboard . . .
Pete at 4:10 PM ‘n 8:25 PM yesterday: Okay, we've dispelled the notion that the Wolfman resides in the "nether world of time zones." Now we've got to get him to begin preparing his Posts on the WP earlier in the day - like BEFORE the storms arrive! <grin>
Batteries in the mouse????? Hmmmmm, that's a "new one" on me. Haven't you ‘n I gone down that "street" before - batteries in Chicago ring a bell???
Rather stormy afternoon in these parts too. Things began to clear up just about 5 PM or so and Juneau's evening walk was without interference from the weather. Temps have dropped quite a bit, as predicated. <brrrrr>
Second visit was a bit of "redemption" and I suppose we'll have to let you "off the hook"! <grin> You have a way with ensuring that the bases get covered (something the Cardinals haven't done very well in their 1st two games! <uh oh>) and making ‘em inclusive ‘n informative.
The websites http://www.trainweb.org/ and http://www.trainweb.com/ are good places to do some searching for things like origins of passenger cars ‘n locos. Probably would take a month of Sundays just to "track" those Pennsy passenger cars, but my guess is the best of ‘em did indeed wind up with Amtrak.
Appreciate the GG1 Pix and before too long, we'll be seeing one up front and "personal" during the Rendezvous in St. Louis!
Doug at 6:22 PM ‘n 7:59 PM yesterday: A 2nd ‘n 3rd visit and a 2nd ‘n 3rd offering of Pennsy "stuff" too! Not having much background with steam locos, I particularly enjoyed the discussion of those locos of the late 1800s. Makes one think a bit about what was and where we have arrived. Nice selection!
Really enjoyed the Penn Station submission along with the "electric" loco info - well done! And many THANX for helping to make the "Theme Day" a success.
Appreciate the dependability once again!
Mike at 9:30 PM yesterday: The URLMeisterMonster dropped off quite the "list" and I'll have to go thru ‘em later on - THANX!
James at 10:16 PM yesterday: Thanx for taking the time and making the effort to swing on by with those Pennsy URLs!
Now arriving on track #1 ..... Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Three
Initially Posted: 03 Feb 2006, page 237 of the original ThreadPennsylvania Railroad
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. Locale: Chicago and St. Louis to New York City and Washington, DC Reporting marks: PRR Dates of operation: 1846 - 1968 Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge) Headquarters: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania The Pennsylvania Railroad (AAR reporting mark PRR) was an American railroad existing 1846-1968, after which it merged into Penn Central Transportation. Commonly referred to as the Pennsy, the company was headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The company's symbol was a keystone (Pennsylvania's symbol) with the letters PRR intertwined inside it. When colored, it was bright red with silver-grey edges and lettering (although it also appears in metal leaf outline on a wooden background on station benches). The PRR was the largest railroad by traffic and revenue in the US throughout its 20th century existence and for a long while was the largest publicly traded corporation in the world. The corporation still holds the record for the longest continual dividend history, over 100 years of never missing an annual shareholder payment. Like the Reading Railroad, the PRR served Atlantic City, New Jersey; one of the four railroad squares in the board game Monopoly is called Pennsylvania Railroad. Standard Railroad of the World The Pennsylvania Railroad, as the "standard railroad of the world", also strove for an air of permanence, decorating its railroad stations with symbols of itself. For a long time the PRR called itself the Standard Railroad of the World, meaning that it was the standard to which all other railroads aspired, the "gold standard". For a long time that was literally true; the railroad had an impressive lists of firsts, greatests, biggests and longests. The PRR was the first railroad to rid itself of wooden-bodied passenger cars in favor of the much safer steel-bodied cars. It led the way in many safety and efficiency improvements over the years. This advantage lessened as the years progressed, and the PRR eventually abandoned the use of the phrase. The Pennsylvania Railroad was standard in another way, too - it was an early proponent of standardization. While other railroads used whatever was to hand or available, the Pennsylvania tested and experimented with solutions until they could decide on one, and then made it standard across the whole company. Other railroads bought locomotives and railroad cars in small lots, taking whatever was available from manufacturers at the time. The PRR produced huge numbers of standardised designs. This gave the railroad a feel of uniformity and greatly reduced costs. The PRR was also an early adopter of standard liveries and color schemes. History The eastern part of the PRR's main line was built by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as part of the Main Line of Public Works, a railroad and canal corridor across the state. The system opened in 1834, consisting of the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad from Philadelphia west to Columbia on the Susquehanna River, a canal from Columbia to Hollidaysburg, the Allegheny Portage Railroad from Hollidaysburg to Johnstown, and another canal from Johnstown to the terminus in Pittsburgh. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad had one inclined plane at each end; the Allegheny Portage Railroad had ten. The Pennsylvania Railroad Company was chartered by the Pennsylvania legislature on April 13, 1846. Construction began in 1847 and the first section opened from Harrisburg west to Lewistown on September 1, 1849 (including the original Rockville Bridge across the Susquehanna River). Further extensions opened to McVeytown on December 24, Mount Union on April 1, 1850, Huntingdon on June 10, and Duncansville (west of Hollidaysburg) on September 16, 1850, taking it to a connection with the Allegheny Portage Railroad on the east side of the Allegheny Ridge. On the other side of the ridge, the main line opened from Conemaugh (on the Portage Railroad east of Johnstown) west to Lockport on August 25, 1851. On December 10, 1851, sections opened from Lockport west to Beatty (west of Latrobe) and from Pittsburgh east to Brinton, with a temporary stagecoach transfer between via the Southern Turnpike and a short turnpike branch built to Beatty. Part of that gap was filled on July 15, 1852, from Brinton east to Radebaugh, and on November 29 the full line was completed, forming the first all-rail route between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Plane Number 1 of the Portage Railroad was bypassed on April 1, 1852. Other planes began to be bypassed by the New Portage Railroad, completed in 1856, but on February 15, 1854 the PRR's new line opened, leaving the old one on the east side of the ridge in Altoona and running west via the Horseshoe Curve and Gallitzin Tunnel, only using a short portion of the old Portage Railroad near South Fork and a longer adjacent section of New Portage Railroad. A reciprocal trackage rights agreement made March 18, 1854allowed the PRR to use that section for free. On March 21, 1849 the PRR contracted with Eagle Line, primarily a steamboat company, for through service over the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad. The PRR obtained trackage rights over the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad, opened in 1838, on April 21, providing a route from Harrisburg to the Philadelphia and Columbia at Dillerville, just west of Lancaster. On September 1 the first section of the PRR opened, with all arrangements in place for service from Philadelphia to Lewistown. On December 20, 1860 the PRR formally leased the line west of Dillerville, renamed the Harrisburg, Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad in 1855. In 1853 the PRR surveyed the Lancaster, Lebanon and Pine Grove Railroad from Philadelphia west via Phoenixville to Salunga on the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad. This was done in order to show the state that the PRR was willing to build its own alignment around the Philadelphia and Columbia. On July 31, 1857, the PRR bought the whole Main Line of Public Works. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad was integrated into its system. Most of the New Portage Railroad, just completed the previous year at a cost of $2.14 million, was abandoned, while short sections became local branches. The canals were abandoned, and short sections were fill
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH, didn't we have a great time watching the game last night on the large screen TV???? <ooooops> Time for a mugga Joe with a "jolt" and I'll check out the bakery case in a minute or three.
By the way, I LOVE that photo of the Via Rail obs dome with the majestic mountain in the background! Terrific. Also, some fine Pennsy stuff to continue the "tribute."
Yes, Mets Won! Indeed they did as El Duque put it to 'em in fine fashion. Now he's a throwback to the pitchers of old. Can only imagine how he would've fared had his career begun in the majors. Those two games in the win column always have meaning, especially in September.
I'm gonna be somewhat scarce for the remainder of this day and perhaps tomorrow as well, so here's a bit more in tribute to a mighty fine road - The Pennsylvania Railroad - and a THANK YOU to Cap'n Tom for agreeing to next Tuesday's Theme as the New York Central!
From page 333 of the "old" thread on May 18, 2006 (Tom's B'day)
Tom - here's something that I know is near & dear to your railroading heart! Pennsylvania Railroad's GG1 The GG1 was designed by the Pennsylvania Railroad based on the need for a locomotive that could pull more than 12 to 14 passenger cars. The railroad thought it had designed the perfect electric passenger locomotive, the P-5a, but as the P-5a locomotives arrived, it became necessary to double head them on many trains in order to protect schedules. Two other factors were involved in the development of the GG1. The chassis and wheel arrangement were a result of experiments with a leased New Haven EP3a and the streamlined body and center crew cab were an outcome of concern for crew safety. A tragic grade crossing accident in which a box cab P-5a hit a truck killing the engineer, reinforced the need for better protection for the crew. After the accident, a hold was put on further manufacture of the box cab P-5a and the locomotive was redesigned to include a center crew cab. The GG1 was given a sculptured carbody with contoured hoods that were tapered to provide visibility for the enginemen. As a result, a very aesthetically pleasing design evolved. Raymond Loewy, the renowned industrial designer, reviewed the prototype and recommended welding the shell rather than using rivets. He then suggested adding the famous pin stripes, making the design an award winner. The railroad built 139 units (#4800 through #4938) between the years 1934 and 1943. Many of them were built at the Juniata Locomotive Shop in Altoona, PA. This streamlined locomotive, designed for bidirectional operation was mainly used for passenger trains, but a few were regeared for freight service. The GG1 survived longer than any other American locomotive design, lasting from 1934 to well into the 1980s. The 79.5 foot long 230+ ton GG1 was built on an articulated frame which permitted its 2-C+C-2 wheel arrangement to negotiate tight curves even in congested areas. Power was picked up from an overhead 11,000 Volt AC catenary wire by a pantograph and the voltage stepped-down through an on board transformer to feed the 12 single phase 25 cycle traction motors. Each of these motors developed 385 HP giving the GG1 a total of 4620 HP in continuous operation and allowed speeds up to 100 mph. The body of the locomotive also housed large blowers for motor and transformer cooling, a steam boiler for passenger car heat, electric controllers and sanding boxes. Of the 139 units built, only 16 survive today. Some have been restored superficially and can be visited as shown below. It is not likely that any of these survivors will ever run again because of the prohibitive cost to rebuild or replace the electrical components. Will a GG1 ever run again? A GG1 will probably never run again. Steam locomotives can be restored through extraordinary efforts, if needed, to repair or remanufacture mechanical parts. Once a steam locomotive has been restored, all one needs is coal (or oil) and water, to have the ability to run if track is available. The GG1 survivors have had their transformers removed, many of the traction motors have shorted out and all of the other current carrying parts have deteriorated to the point of uselessness. The one exception may be 4935 in Strasburg, PA which may be capable of actually running if a transformer and a proper catenary were available. The GG1 was a 25 cycle (HZ) machine for which the PRR maintained their own substation to provide the 25 cycle current. Locomotives today are capable of operating on 25 HZ or 60 HZ and most railroads are using 60 HZ so they can buy power directly from the power companies and avoid the expense of maintaining their own substations. There is also a possible problem with contamination from PCB's, which to this point no one talks about. The GG1 transformer was cooled with a fluid known generically as Askarel (a non-flammable synthetic liquid dielectric). This liquid contains PCB's, and any evidence of PCB's would be a show stopper. Many of the GG1s had developed cracks in their frames which means major repair or replacement would be needed. In addition the drivers, the trucks, and the carbody would have to refurbished. After that, all new electrical components and controls would have to be furnished. This could possibly cost around $1.5 to $2.0 million. I seriously doubt that anyone would spend the money to get a GG1 to run. Some have spent large sums to refurbish steam locomotive but only where there has been available track to allow excursion to provide payback. With all new electrical equipment and modern controls, this new GG1 could run on the Northeast Corridor or any other electrified railroad but, it would not be an authentic GG1, it would simply be a modern electric locomotive with the carbody of a GG1. Unfortunately changes in technology have finally, after 60 years, forced the retirement of the most durable locomotive of all time. The Pennsylvania Railroad GG1: The "Congressionals" and "The Senator" In 1885, the PRR introduced a passenger train that ran between New York City and Washington, DC with limited stops along the route. This train, known as the " Congressional Limited Express", became the favorite train for businessmen and politicians. As traffic increased, more "limiteds" were added to the railroad's schedule and by the 1940's there were, among many "limiteds" two "Congressionals", one leaving Washington for New York and one leaving New York for Washington each afternoon , except Sunday. These two very popula coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 9:22 AM Good Morning Barkeep and all present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Let's play "Up and Down the Monon" for the mascots - they seem to enjoy that one. Interesting night last night as the whole world lit up at about 1:00 a.m. with rain, hail, thunder, etc. It didn't last too long, and there is snow in the forecast for later. Local news is that CSX (C&O actually) put several coal cars on the ground last night along Coal River and managed to partially submerge at least one locomotive. Of course, there was a fuel spill. No injuries, but it is a mess. There was a slide along the tracks and they hit a large rock and away things went from there. Let's try and sort things out in the way of comments. Before I forget, thanks to all for the kind words re the Geography Bee. I don't know who has the tougher job; the contestants or the folks in the audience. I sat in the back and had fun trying to answer the questions - my problem is that I see old maps in my head. IOW, the sun "Nevah sets on the Empiah." I'll bet the mariners in the group remember charts that said "Here Be Dragons." Back off Boris, I'm stopping now. DL - The TGV was all over the news here last night and this a.m. Pete - Thanks for the kind words.We sure had a lot of PRR-related postings Lars brought the bookmobile around for a visit. The PRR consist book is well worth the money. It has a lot of pictures of different cars in addition to data. The Broadway Limited book, IIRC, is one I mentioned awhile back - it's worth the $ as well. Last, Paul Withers has produced a multivolume series relating to Pennsylvania diesels. I have all of them. Not much in the way of war, but lots of technical data and pictures - again of interest to the Captains of Industry in the group. The Morning Sun books depicted all have good material, but I like to page through them before I buy. They have done a multivolume set called Pennsy Disel Years which is better than average. Also, b4 I forget, thanks for the repost of material from the old thread.Barndad sent us some more Westing writing. I almost forgot one of his best works is an old timer about PRR E6 and other classes titled Apex of the Atlantics.I had some fun enlarging the pictures. The 4790 was photographed at Sunnyside as was the switcher. Look carefully to the left of the picture and you can see some New Haven cars. The shot of the PRR engines just outside Penn Station is the "hole" I mentioned in my post - look hard and you'll see a New Haven EP4 in the background.Mike sent us some shots as well which are revealing of things Pennsy.Take a look at the pictures of Broad Street Station in Philadelphia. The first picture, which is probably a lithograph, shows the station as built with the train shed. The train shed burned and was replaced with the platforms as shown in the last picture of Broad Street. Somewhere in my stack of stuff, I have shots of the fire fighting activities and the reconstruction work done by the railroad to get things up and going quickly. The pictures of Elizabeth, NJ, showed a lot of shall we say, industrial archaeology. The station at Elizabeth sits on an S curve - great for photography as trains had to slow down some going through there. Take a look at the PRR tracks. There is a bridge in the middle of the picture. The tracks under the P Company belong to the Central Railroad Company of New Jersey. The CNJ's Elizabeth Station is beside the CBNJ tracks just to the right of the PRR bridge. We will not even discuss the demolition of Penn Station as Boris would have to sedate me. It's truly an awful place now. The best thing you can say about it is that there's one !@#$ of a train set in the basement!The pictures of Horseshoe were good - I can smell the brake shoe smoke. I have not been up there in a long time. Anyway, checkout the coal train picture. Second unit in the consist (just for James) is a GP30 with train phone antenna. Don't hardly see those anymore, Ethel. Metroliner in Washington - rode them more than few times. Reserving Metroliner tickets from an offline city was an interesting process which we maybe can talk about sometime later. Look hard at the picture and you'll see an Atlantic Coast Line baggage car in the background. That's what I always liked about Washington back in the day was that there was so !@#$ much to see, especially if you went up the road a little bit to the engine terminal at Ivy City. Two main lines (PRR and B&O) plus all kinds of power in the engine facility. James sent some pictures as well. Centipedes were truly bestial to maintain. The P Company used them in passenger service originally where their reliability was less than stellar, so they were reassigend to helper service on what the P Company called "mineral" trains. Just as you might think, coal and ore. They did a little better there because speed was not an issue. They could pull about anything as you might expect. Mechanically, another story altogether - traction motors on each axle - I'd hate to ahve to work on one. The Seaboard also had them.OSP sent a lot of material including historical summaries, name train list (man did I check off a few on that one), and some nice pieces of art work. Two different schemes on G motors, E44s (remember those real well - they were what a buddy of mine called, "Apartment houses with wheels," especially when they mued them. Multiple Gs of freights were not that uncommon. Last the picture of the Broadway in I would guess New Jersey somewhere, was interesting because of the two stainless cars in the middle of the train - again not all that uncommon, especially in the latter years.Well, I've gone on enough. New York Central next week? I'm ready if you are.Work safe pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 4:34 PM Hi Tom and all.Another busy day at the house. Got a phone call this morning that the guys who are going to do the basement sealing can come today so a busy morning moving the rocks in front of what was a small flower patch in front of the house but is now rapidly becoming a deep trench. So RUTH a nice Batham's to ease my aching back..Really great reading on the PRR since I last posted. DOUG Really great post on the K class and locomotive No 10 .Then some great photos from the 1989 magazine of some of the,to me, leeser known Pennsy electric locomotives. It would be interesting to know the story about those L6A locos, with only No 5940 of the class to be in service while some others were uncompleted at Altoona.MIKE Many thanks for the usual excellent links.I noticed what I think is a rarity in the U.S.a traffic roundabout in the pic of Newark. great postcard of Jersey City..JAMES Thanks for the link to the 3 great photos.I hope the snow clearing when OK, I think I would prefer the snow to moving rocks.ERIC That is a great video link to the French Record breaking run, even going over points at that speed. The views from the overbridges really give a idea how fast the train is moving. Many thanks for sharing the link..Like you I am wary of the copyright laws so I only use my own photos or the ones Alan sends and lets me use.LARS You certainly know how to get on the Bosses good side with those great posts on the GG1s and the Broadway Limited. Mr Loewy was a talented designer as he designed the equipment for the Limited as well as the GG1s. Great photos as well. Looking at the pics, to see the GG1s at there best the locos had to be clean, to show off that, to me, wonderful very dark green color. It is a bit of a coincedence that the principle steam loco class of the ex LMS, the Duchesses, in BR days had some locos in Brunswick Green and others in Maroon.although the green was a lighter shade than that used on the GG1s.CM3 Glad you are OK after last nights storm.I wonder if it waspart of the front that went through here and Tom,s area.Many thanks for the decriptions on the links and photos. I too liked the pic of the brakeblocks smoking on the horseshoe curve. I wonder if the steam loco that is on display in one of the pics of the curve is still there.TOM Really enjoyed reading that great and detailed post on the PRR the railroad certainly was 'Gold Standard'.There must have been a lot of sad fans of the road when it merged with the NYC to form Penn Central.It will be good to see the GG1 at St Louis at the rendezvous.You will have to come over to see the 'wireless optical mouse' on the puter. You are right, I do not have a lot of luck with batteries or films for that matter.I though I would post a piece I found in word on the last main line to be built in England as the Channel Tunnel high speed link is do to open later this year A British Fallen Flag. The Great Central (The London Extension). Part 1 As a boy there were two stations serving my hometown of Rugby. They were both island stations although the LMS station Rugby Midland was much larger with two very long platforms with bays at both ends, with the through lines and the goods lines passing on both sides. The Rugby Central was much smaller with the main line passing the platform faces and a goods loop on the up (towards London) and just a siding on the down. The line passed through Rugby in a 1 ¾ mile cutting that was 48 feet at its deepest. The present Midland station is the 3rd one opening in 1885; the line first arrived in Rugby in 1838. This is planned to be completely remodeled soon as part of the West Coast Modernization.The Great Central was born from the Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway serving the area in its title. It had a branch that served the Nottinghamshire coalfield in the Colwick area near to Nottingham. It was from this that the chairman of the MS&LR Sir Edward Watkin planned his new railway south. Watkin was also chairman of the Metropolitan Railway, serving the northern suburbs of London. and of the South Eastern Railway, serving as the name suggested, the south east of England. It was Sir Edwards dream to connect these lines and run them to a tunnel under the English Channel to France. He was about 100 years ahead of his time!The Act of Parliament to build the London Extension was obtained in 1893. The line was built as a double track main line, with deep cuttings and ruling grade of 0.8%, built to the Berne Gauge which was larger than most of the other UK lines. It was an expensive line to build with the railway going through the large cities of Nottingham and Leicester on brick viaducts.On the approach to London the GC shared tracks with the Metropolitan The line open in 1899.The GC established a large locomotive shed in a small village called Woodford Halse about 20 miles south of Rugby south of Woodford a branch line was built to connect the GC with The Great Western Railway at Banbury on the GWR main line from London to Birmingham. This connection gave the GC a great deal of traffic opening up a route to the South coast and South Wales. The GC enjoyed a good relationship with the GWR, unlike the fierce rivalry with the Lond Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 5:03 PM Good afternoon Tom and friends! Time for a bottomless draught and a round for the house! I have yet another heating/air conditioning guy coming to see me in a few minutes to quote installation of an air conditioning system. Hardly seems practical if we never see warm weather. We'll be running to the stable tonight to re-blanket the horse. Quite the outpouring of quality stuff since my last visit. The GG1 definitely wins the "most posted" picture form our PRR theme day. The one we have at IRM ran the New York Central before its sentencing to Amtrak. Glad you liked the plagarized recycled PRR stuff Peter. I see Mike graced us with a plethopra of URLs. I viewed many, and they're worth the look ... made all the more interesting by the commentary from our own experts, Eric, Cm3 and Peter. Very impressive gentlemen! Lars wins the GG1 pix posting prize, with a healthy portion of information too. Captain Tom reposted a fine Wikepedia article, and James shook the snow off his boots long enough to drop in, post some pix and make me wonder if I had any information on Centipedes. As for myself, I've got a little something going to entice Rob to make comment, but of course everyone here is welcome to do the same. In the meantime, here's a little sneak-peak at some pix from the Sanfilippo Estate. Wish I knew something about these models, but there were no signs or people available to explain them.You gotta love this. A steam operated fan!More pix coming this Saturday. Here's the builders plate on the locomotive This Kentucky horse breeder had a filly that won every race in which she was entered. But as she got older she became very temperamental. He soon found that when he raced her in the evening, she would win handily, but when she raced during the day she would come in dead last. He consulted the top veterinarians and horse psychologists to no avail. He finally had to give up because it had become a real night mare. Edit CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 7:54 PM G-day Tom and all present!Leon- A coffee and turkey sandwich for me, and a round for the house. ThanksThe snow is over and we now have blue skies. I think it should stop now and go on to spring like it's suppose to do. Time will tell.On to acknowledgements.Pete- Ya at first I thought it was a steam engine too. But I was looking up C30-7s and knew that it couldn't be a steamer. That's what happens when you a get a bit o' oil in the cylinder chamber. My guess is that some of the oil rings around the cylinder head are leaking a bit o' oil in to the chamber and in return you get a lot of smoke. Then again it is an old GE!Nice picture of the Pennsy GG1. That is a beautifully restored locomotive. But I did notice that the pantograph is stretched out to the max. I suppose to show how high it's able to stretch but it usually would only go about 6 to 8 feet before hitting the wire. Just a little pointer outer.Moving rocks? Ya I would have to agree with that. Are you building a wall? Glad you liked the pics. I thought the night of the Pennsy station was the best. I always love seeing old signals. They make a good back ground for most pictures. Also a good article on the fallen flag, The Great Central. It was interesting to learn that sir Edward had already thought about building a tunnel under the English channel. Probably never thought of calling it the Chunnel if it were ever built. Cool stuff.Eric- Well, Duluth does have its up and downs and this would be one of the downs. Interesting that you found a couple of SD60Ms with the numbers. They are newer than the C30-7 so I'm sure the new numbering system came into affect. I know there are a couple of the C30-7 still around but they have been numbered something like 2400 or 3000 series now. Ah the X2000. It's hard to tell from a cab shot. I would certainly like to ride the Acela someday and actually see what 150 mph is like. Of course 357.2 mph on the TGV is also a fast speed too........ Nice picture of the X2000 and the GG1.Doug- Really liked the article on the Pennsy steam and semaphores. The Semaphores are really cool. Really liked the fact that Fred had pointed out the air compressor pipe. That was a while ago before they went over the switch machine mechanism. Very cool Thanks for sharing. Also thanks for the second article of Pennsy steam and semaphores. All of those different types of steamers. Very cool. When you mentioned the American 4-4-0 I instantly thought of the William Crooks and all the pictures of it parked at the Depot here in Duluth back in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Thanks for the most interesting articles.Ah yes the electric E60. Very similar to the Milwaukee road's Westinghouse electrics. Even though they weren't as short as that. To bad to read that all of the electric switchers are gone. They were certainly a wonderful piece of railroad history. Thanks for the pictures and articles.I'm sorry I had to make you wonder if you had information on the centipedes. But if you do it would certainly be read by me. I have always been interested in the history behind these exceptionally large locomotives. Interesting looking model pics you have there. Wish you knew something about them. I saw that steam powered fan and that caught my eye. I have never seen anything like it. I have seen belt driven, electric and even air power, but not steam. Very cool thanks for sharing.Tom- I will definitely keep the Copyright in mind. But no need to worry. I did send in permission for it. But I have learned that you can use the urls to the pictures to show any pictures off. So that's helpful. But I will be careful. Thanks for the fallen flags info on the Pennsy along with some nice posters. The named passenger train info was really nice. I never knew how many passenger trains one railroad could have. Also some interesting names they had for some of those trains, like the Susquehannock. Interesting name.Great paintings of the Pennsy electrics and diesels. I was really impressed with the E-44 painting. That was a really neat painting. Now I just need to go ahead and paint it and I will be set for life. Also nice article on the trains of yesteryear: The Pennsy. I have a head full of train knowledge, so I crammed all that info in there to. Great explanations on it's steam locomotives and the history behind the railroad. Overall I learned a lot from the merger of the Penn central to the history. Great addition to the theme of the day. Thanks for sharing.CM3- Ya, I've heard a lot about the slug units. They were an interesting contrast of the GP30. I think they need a cab before I could call them a GP30. I've run the Soo GP30 and they are a wonderful piece of machinery. I hope to get back and run it again this summer. Very good article on the passenger trains at the Pennsy station. It was fascinating to read about all the sights that he would pass as the train went through the country side. When I got down to the Zoo interlocking and started to wonder about it. Do you have any pictures of the Zoo interlocking? I would really enjoy seeing that interlocking terminal. Thanks for the article, it was fascinating.Thanks for the info on the centipede. I really couldn't imagine working on one of those things. Infact I don't think I could. That would be a nightmare.Lars- Thanks for the book covers. Some pretty n The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 8:04 PM G-day Tom and all present!Leon- Thanks but I am still working on my first cup of coffee.Pete- Alright, I have the DL109 info for you and for anyone who wants to learn about these unique locomotives!The ALCO DL-109 is one of six models of A1A-A1A diesel locomotives built to haul passenger trains by the American Locomotive Company (ALCO) between December, 1939 and April, 1945 ("DL" stands for Diesel Locomotive). They were of a cab unit design, and both cab-equipped lead A units DL-103b, DL-105, DL-107, DL-109 and cabless booster B units DL-108, DL-110 models were built. The units were styled by the industrial designer Otto Kuhler, who incorporated the trademark 3-piece windshield design. A total of 74 cab units and 4 cabless booster units were built.The different models were sequentially offered and all developed 2,000 hp (1,500 kW). The differences between the cab units DL-105, DL-107, DL-109 and between the booster units DL-108 and DL-110 were minor. The first unit built to ALCO Specification DL-103b, the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad #624, was 4 ft 5 in (1.3 m) longer than the other cab units. The DL-103b had the two radiator sections positioned together at the end of the carbody, while all other units had a split radiator arrangement with one placed at the back of the unit and one situated in the middle. The DL-103b was built with twin straight-6-cylinder ALCO 538T diesel engines as prime movers; all other DLs in this series were built with the newer twin straight-6-cylinder ALCO 539T diesel engines. The DL-103b also had all-electric driven accessories, while the later models had belt-driven accessories.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OP-15291.jpghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Santa_Fe_DL109.jpgHistoryThe New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad received special permission from the War Production Board to purchase #0710-#0759 as dual-use (passenger/freight) locomotives; they were built between 1942-1945. The first 10, #0700-#0709, were delivered right after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December of 1941 from ALCO's Schenectady factory. The New Haven owned the most DL-109s, rostering 60 units in 1945.There were three classes among the New Haven units noting some differences between the manufacture of each batch. The DER-1a (Diesel-Electric Road) units #0700-#0709 had the original design with a mass of vents on the roof, while the DER-1b (#0710-#0749) and DER-1c (#0750-#0759) had the simplified winterization hatches instead. The New Haven DL-109s could be found hauling passenger trains during the day and freight trains at night. The class was rebuilt once, replacing the plywood sides, removing the decorative side windows in favor of a steel screen, and several other changes.Two DL-109s received a special rebuild to make them able to "MU" (multiple unit) with more than one other unit; originally they only had the MU cables on the rear meaning that only a back-to-back pair could be made. The two special units had cables put on the front so they could be used to make a 3-unit set for longer trains. One of the units had the nose rebuilt with an access door, raising the headlight and changing the contour of the nose.The DL-109s eventually ran their last miles in the late 1950s in local commuter service around Boston. One special unit was retained through the 1960s in Boston as a power plant; PP-716 was converted to produce power for a test third rail in Boston. Eventually PP-716 became the last DL-109 on the face of the Earth and fell to the scrappers torch under the Penn Central.The other railroad's DL-109s were primarily scrapped during the 1950s. One notable pair on the Milwaukee Road lived charmed lives. Units #14A, B were delivered in October 1941, and paired up to run the Chicago-Minneapolis Afternoon Hiawatha and overnight Fast Mail back to Chicago. The units, along with EMD E6 #15A, B performed wonderfully during World War II with consists of Hiawathas expanding up to 20 cars and standing room only. The paint scheme was designed by Otto Kuhler, who had designed most of the 1938 Hiawatha and The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 11:58 PM Good evening Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!Hello Leon, tonight I'll have my Sugar Cured Ham Sandwich! On rye of course! Coffee!A lot of interesting reading about PRR today! I am impressed! Learned a lot of new facts. 44 days to the Rendezvous! Time flies!Tom – Don’t worry, the GG1 Amtrak gave me is PRR green and does not have any Amtrak logo on it! Thanks for a very informative article on PRR! Very interesting!! It is too bad they are no longer around! Amazing to read that PRR abandoned most of the newly built New Portage Railroad in 1857. Brand new railroad! Part of it was reopened in 1904. A low-grade line, in what way was it “low”? Axle load due to not so heavy rails, or what? I am happy to say I have been to all PRR major passenger stations by train! Lars – Thank you for the history of GG1!! 139 units! 50 years of service! Not bad at all! I am afraid that you are correct about the chances to see a GG1 operational again. It could be done but it would have a lot of new equipment inside. Very nice pictures of those electric locomotives!I didn’t know that Amtrak is no longer running Broadway Limited! I must have been asleep! CM3 – You are right, Ivy City is a very interesting place! Pete – Thanks for the Great Central story (part 1). Berne Gauge, I have never heard that name before. Whwt exactly did it mean? Doug – Nice pictures of some interesting items! First the tractor-trailer, it looks like the tractor is a model of a British Bedford. Correct? The steam operated fan, is it really steam operated? Where is the water tank? Looking at the angles of the fan blades I think it is the heated air from the kerosene (?) burner that is powering that fan. Very interesting device indeed! I have never seen anything like it before. James – I am sure Duluth has many ups! But in my eyes snow is very much down! I have never been to Duluth but would like to go there one day! Maybe when I have retired. I have the Zoo Interlocking on video but not on any pictures! When I get some more time I am going to transfer all my videos to DVDs and then I should be able to get some pictures out of them. But I don’t know when that will happen. Thanks for the info on the DL-109! So they had two 6-cylinder engines! Interesting! The first time I have seen a Santa Fe DL-109! Glad you got your Milwaukee moment! Below is a PRR moment!Sweeping the PRR rails! Penn Station 1993. Eric Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 5, 2007 5:50 AM Good morning Tom and gang. I'll have a light breakfast please. James has been extra busy since my last visit. First with some very inclusive acknowledgements, and then information on the ALCO DL-109. Speaking of which, I was remiss in acknowledging Peter's part I of the Great Central yesterday. Sorry about that. To answer Eric's question, yes, that fan is steam operated, though I can't imagine the fan blades turning very fast. I lost track of the number of steam engines in and around the Estate, but you'll be seeing some pictures of them this Saturday, amazingly in better than new condition!Here's a little something to read with you morning coffees from Elctroliner Great Northern Railway W-1 by Joseph CunninghamAmerican railway electrification has produced some notable locomotives. The largest of all were constructed for the Great Northern in 1947. The GN's installation was neither long in mileage nor did it serve major population centers. Its purpose was simple: moving heavy freight and through passenger trains across the Cascade mountain range by way of the Cascade Tunnel. Electric power was first installed in 1909 to eliminate tunnel smoke problems and increase total capacity on the route. This initial electrification, which employed a two wire, three phase power supply (running rails formed a third circuit), was replaced in 1927 by the standard single-phase system. A major route improvement that offered better grades, faster running and a new 7 ¾ mile long tunnel coincided with the conversion of the simpler 11,000 volt 25 Hz electrification. At the same time two new fleets of motive power, one Westinghouse, the other General Electric, were acquired to handle trains through the new tunnel - the nation's longest - which opened in 1929.After World War II longer and heavier freight trains became common, and additional traffic resulted from rapid development of Pacific coastal areas. To expedite handling of the increased business, two new locomotives were ordered from General Electric. Classified W-1, they had streamlined, welded steel bodies with operating cabs at each end in the manner of most electrics of that era. Wheel arrangement followed the previous practice of locating large multi-axle trucks (in this case paired four-axle units) under the main body, with two-axle guiding trucks at either end. In fact, the W-1s would be the last to use this design. They were, however, the first to apply traction motors to all axles, a practice followed on all later electrics. With twelve motors - two on each end guiding truck, four on each main truck - generating 5000 hp and the locomotive's 360 tons resting entirely on powered axles, a W-1 could exert an enormous starting tractive effort of 180,000 pounds. This was thirty percent greater than the biggest steam power, Union Pacific's 4-8-8-4 "Big Boys" could produce. By comparison, the Milwaukee Road's EF-4 "Little Joe" electrics put out 5110 continuous p but could only exert 110,000 pounds of tractive effort. Although total weight of the EF-4 was about 67 tons less, and maximum speed 20 miles per hour faster, a major cause of the difference was the use of unpowered axles in the guiding trucks of the EF-4 units.Electrically the W-1s were a later version of the 1927-1929 units. Line voltage was stepped down and fed to motor-generator sets which drove the twelve GE-746 DC traction motors. Control and motor cooling equipment was included with the primary equipment in the main body portion, while baking some auxiliary electric equipment was placed in the nose of the cab, a standard practice on electrics and many diesels of that era. Operating on fast freight and passenger schedules in rugged country, the giants performed well, reaching service speeds up to 65 mph. Regenerative braking could develop up to 6000 hp and simplified the handling of heavy trains on grades.Operating crews appreciated the comforts of the new units but did remark on the noticeable height of the cab, a point particularly notable as one approached the Cascade Tunnel's portal at speed. Multiple-unit wiring permitted both locomotives to work together if needed.No. 5019 hauling a freight out of Skykomish Washington April 5, 1953. Collection of J.R. QuinnElectric service continued for nine years during which time extensions were considered and two General Electric demonstrator locomotives were tried. But terminal and tunnel electrifications were being dismantled on roads all over the United States, with through diesel operation being substituted. Great Northern's 74-mile mountain electrification was an obvious target for such economy moves. With high-pressure blowers at one portal and automatic doors at the other, a successful tunnel exhaust system was available. Electric operation ended in July 1956. Older electrics were sold or scrapped. The two W-1 units were put up for sale but with no buyers were forthcoming. One, No. 5019, was scrapped. The other, 5018, was purchased by Union Pacific but not for use as an electric. At that time, UP was operating a considerable fleet of oil-fired gas-turbine locomotives. Seeking to explore the possibilities and problems involved in coal turbine locomotives, No. 508 was stripped and refitted as No. 81, a coal turbine, in 1962. After a six-year test in which turbine damage from fly ash led to termination of the experiment, No. 81 was scrapped in 1968. Assembly was then just beginning on the custom built DD40AX "Centennial" diesels for the Union Pacific. Thus it happened that the largest electric (built for the Great Northern) ended up on the Union Pacific which had operated the largest steam - The Big Boy - and would soon operate the largest diesel - The Centennials. A man is at work one day when he notices that his male co- worker is wearing an earring. This man knows his co-worker to be a normally conservative fellow, and is curious about his sudden change in "fashion sense." "Yo, Bob, I didn't know you were into earrings." "Oh, yeah, sure," says Bob sheepishly. "Really? How long have you been wearing one?" "Ever since my wife found it in our bed!" Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, April 5, 2007 7:26 AM Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/G'day Gents! Well whadyano, it's Thursday once again at the Bar by the Ballast and time for a hot mug of coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and perhaps a <light> or <traditional> breakfast. Mets won! Mets swept the Cards! Mets are awesome (doooooods)! <grin>Many THANX to all who contributed so well to the Tuesday Theme for the Day - Pennsylvania RR and the "spill over" into Wednesday. Next week it's the NEW YORK CENTRAL with Manager Lars expected to "kick it off." ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative): Lars at 8:57 AM yesterday: As things turned out, you "saved the morning" with that wonderful combined Encore! from last May. Some fine Pennsy "stuff," featuring those great looking GG1s and so on. Many thanx! Yeah, those nasty boys from New Yawk did it to my Red Birds twice again. <groan> That's a sweep! Its gonna be a looooooooooong grind ‘til the end. Gotta hand it to the Mets, as they've really looked sharp and up to the task. Too bad with this inter-league stuff going on that we won't be playing the New York guys any more than the 4 in your place this June. So we face perhaps the best team in the NL only 7 times out of 162. Hmmmmmm.Come to think of it, the last time I was at Shea Stadium was in 1988 for a game against the Cards . . . time flies. <grin>We'll surely miss your presence tomorrow, but such is life. Thanx again for the GG1 ‘n Broadway Ltd ‘stuff'!! CM3 at 9:22 AM yesterday: Love the "Here by dragons" reference - brings back some memories at the "chart table." <grin>Yes, we had quite a bit of Pennsy material not only on Tuesday, but yesterday too. Really takes a couple of days to do justice to "The standard railroad of the world," eh ‘tween you ‘n Wolfman, the "eagle eye" really shows! I enjoy finding those added details you always seem to find in the Pix that are Posted. Adds to the flavor of it all, fer sure, fer sure! Back in the 1940s, we used to travel to Baltimore ‘n WashDC quite often by train. Most times it was aboard the PRR, but the B&O was also used as well. Caught the train in Elizabeth ‘n Newark, NJ a few times, but mainly embarked from Penn Station in "the city." I always enjoyed the tunnel over to "Joisey" and coming up "high" on the landscape into a curve that if sitting on the left side of the train, one could see the Manhattan skyscrapers quite well. So much more locked in memory - but much has already been shared over on the original Thread. Nice to think about those times . . . .Thanx as always for the round, quarters ‘n visit! Pete at 4:34 PM yesterday: Good to see the Bar Chandler make a late afternoon appearance, as we surely can use the "help" at this time of day. A quality offering from the Wolfman as always, capped off with a terrific "original" in the form of a Brit Fallen Flag - part I. Great job, looking forward to part II! I know how much those RR memories of yours in Rugby mean to you. CHANGE really isn't always for the better, eh I think "they" call it PROGRESS when rails, ties and roadbed disappear into the pages of history. But oh, there's a PRICE to pay later on down the line, eh Youbetcha. Ya know with this crazy Amtrak sked, I could come to see you and spend pretty much the day, returning on the late afternoon train. Hmmmmmmm.Thanx for the Post ‘n visit! Doug at 5:03 PM yesterday: Kinda surprise visit from the barn weevil, but appreciated! I'd say your Post "qualifies" for Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! - an OPTIONAL Wednesday "thing" here at the Saloon by the Siding! We're experiencing some strange weather events here in east central MO as the temps are going to be below freezing for the next few mornings. To think that just the day before yesterday we were at 83 (F) is a bit difficult to comprehend. Fortunately, other than some torrential downpours, we were spared any of the severe stuff usually accompanying the arrival of those kinds of fronts.A/C ‘n furnace replacement is high on the "list" of things to take care of ‘round here too. Figger it best to get at it BEFORE they become problems. One good thing though, is this should be the very LAST time I'll have to spring for the replacement funding. I'll be "gone" for the next one . . . <grin>Appreciate the Post, round ‘n visit! James at 7:54 PM ‘n 8:04 PM yesterday: All that hard work clearing snow must've put you in the "mood" for some "keyboarding." A fine, fine inclusive ‘n informative Post - something we all appreciate ‘round this joint. Great observation regarding the GG1 pantograph, by the by . . . One of the reasons this bar is on the "Classic Trains" Forum as opposed to "Trains" is that there's soooooooo much more to talk about. Just think about the "stuff" Happy Railroading! Siberianmo coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, April 5, 2007 8:54 AM Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, hot bricks, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We have had a close to 50 degree drop in temperature since Tuesday and, guess what - it's snowing here this morning with a temp of about 25 degrees and a good NE wind.Pete - The K4 was removed from Horseshoe awhile back and replaced with a geep. Many thanks for the post on the Great Central.Barndad - Grant Locomotive Works? Excellent! Also liked the steam fan. The GN electrification piece was interesting; The construction shot gives an idea of how large those beasts were. The comment regarding smoke abatement in tunnels was similar to what the B&M did with their electrification through Hoosac. Herewith some more on GN electrics.GN 5018 was a class W-1 locomotive on the GN's roster. She was built in 1947 and retired in 1956. Four years later 5018 was sold to the UP and r/b as the center unit (UP 80B) of the coal turbine unit UP 80. It was r/n UP 8080B in 1964, retired four years later, and scrapped the same year.Now for some GN/Pennsy-related material. Great Northern 5012-5017 were class Y-1 electrics built by Alco-GE. 5012-5012 were built in 1928 and 5014-5017 in 1930. They were all sold to the P Company in August 1956 and r/n PRR 2-7. Pennsy got a few more years out of them before they were scrapped. PRR 4 was the first to go (1960), followed by PRR 2 in 1962; the remainder were cut up in 1966. These locomotives were a bit peculiar as they ran with both pans "up." James - Thanks for the information on the DL109s; I remember them on the New Haven when I was a pup. Some of them were pretty ratty looking by then, but they did have the distinctive Alco sound and the nose design made them look taller than they were.Eric stopped by with comments OSP - Do we have to talk about the Cards? Today we get to see if the Red Sox' massive investment will be helpful. ESPN is showing Sox vs. Texas on Sunday. I'll be in front of the TV for that. I can relate to what you said about disappearing logos. TWA was a player in Boston and New York, of course. We had a family friend who flew for them, Constellations, yet, between New York and Rome; a long haul. I remember when my maternal grandmother made a visit back to the old country in the early 50's; she had planned to visit before then, but The Great War, raising a family, and another war intervened. Anyway, she took the Mauretania from New York to Southampton' and flew back (TWA on a Connie) as follows: London, Shannon, Gander (I believe), and Boston. Her remark, upon landing, was "Never go boating with anyone but the British, and never aviate with anyone but the Americans." She truly was a piece of work.Have a good one - I'll try and stop by tomorrow, but the day looks to be pretty full already.Work safe siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, April 5, 2007 8:55 AM Now arriving on track #1 ..... Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Twelve Initially Posted on Page 287 of the original ThreadUsed with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. Great Northern Railway (GN) Locale: Chicago, Illinois, to Seattle, Washington Reporting marks: GN Dates of operation: - 1970 Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge) Headquarters: St. Paul, Minnesota A Great Northern EMD F7 Locomotive. (copied per terms of GNU Free Documentation License) The Great Northern Railway (AAR reporting mark GN), running from St. Paul, Minnesota to Seattle, Washington - more than 1,700 miles (2,736 km) - was the privately-financed creation of the 19th century railroad tycoon James J. Hill. It crossed the Mississippi River on the Stone Arch Bridge in Minneapolis, near the Saint Anthony Falls, the only waterfall on the Mississippi. The bridge ceased to be used as a railroad bridge in 1978 and is now used as a pedestrian river crossing with excellent views of the falls and of the lock system used to grant barges access up the river past the falls. The GN developed from the St. Paul and Pacific Railroad. In 1970 the GN became part of the Burlington Northern Railroad in a merger; today, Amtrak's Empire Builder uses the line. A Great Northern train pauses for the photographer four miles west of Minot, North Dakota in 1914. (copied from public domain) Empire Builder This train inspired the popular Empire Builder board game and computer version. Second No. 2, the Empire Builder glides through Summit, Montana on August 5, 1938. (copied per fair use clause of copyright laws) "Drumhead" logos such as these often adorned the ends of observation cars on the Empire Builder. (copied per fair use clause of copyright laws) The Empire Builder is a passenger train route operated by Amtrak in the Midwestern and Northwestern United States. Before Amtrak, the Empire Builder was operated by the Great Northern Railway. The route runs from Chicago, Illinois toward the Pacific Ocean. The line splits in Spokane, Washington, terminating at Seattle, Washington's King Street Station (2,206 miles, or 3,550 km from Chicago) in the north and Portland, Oregon's Union Station (2,257 miles, or 3,632 km from Chicago) in the south. The train passes through the states of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. Layovers are made in St. Paul, Minot, and Spokane. Other major stops on the route are Milwaukee, Fargo, Whitefish, Montana, and Vancouver, Washington. One train passes in each direction on a daily basis. The schedule is timed so that the train will pass through the Rocky Mountains at a time of day that has prime viewing conditions. When trains run on schedule, it takes 45 to 46 hours to travel the entire route. The Chicago-Seattle route is 2,206 miles (3,550 km), and the Chicago-Portland route is 2,257 miles (3,632 km). History Great Northern's Empire Builder passes through Winona Junction, Wisconsin in June, 1958. The cars bear the eye-popping Omaha Orange, Pullman Green, and gold stripe livery (known as the "Empire Builder scheme") that was the standard for GN passenger trains for 20 years. (courtesy: www.trainweb.com) The original Empire Builder was inaugurated by the Great Northern on June 11, 1929. The service was altered to carry additional passengers during World War II. After the war, new diesel trains were placed into service. This postwar service began on February 23, 1947. The route was publicized for allowing riders to view the passing Rocky Mountain landscapes through domed windows on top of the passenger cars. Ultimately, the name comes from the nickname given to railroad tycoon James J. Hill, who built track passing through Minneapolis-St. Paul in the late 19th century and founded the Great Northern Railway. Since inauguration, the service has run from Chicago to Spokane, then split from Spokane, continuing to Seattle and Portland. Historical equipment used The train's 1947 consist was as follows: Baggage-Mail car Great Northern's Empire Builder stops in Havre, Montana in 1967, shortly after the road modernized its color scheme and logo, introducing the "Big Sky Blue" era (passenger equipment begins to receive the blue, gray and white paint scheme, replacing the traditional EB livery). (courtesy: www.trainweb.com) "Chair" car / Coach (60 sea Happy Railroading! Siberianmo DL - UK Member sinceAugust 2006 280 posts Posted by DL - UK on Thursday, April 5, 2007 11:09 AM Hello allPint of bitter please (Harvey's if possible)Just a note to say how much good stuff there was on the PRR day - a lot to learn, a l;to to enjoy.Thought people migth want some picture links to the locomotives pete and I were discussing - classic diesels UK style:http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/d800m_in.htmhttp://www.greatwestern.org.uk/d600m_in.htmInteresting, because this mentions that one of them escaped cutting until 1980 and was nearly preserved, a shame that did not happen.Class 14http://www.nvr.org.uk/istg/d9520.phpAnd some more diesel hydraulic pictures herehttp://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/diesels/photoofthemonth/frame.htmAnyway - enjoy the Easter break folksRegardsDL pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, April 5, 2007 1:10 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Bathams please Ruth .I will post the final part on the GCR while I have a read of the posts since yesterday.A British Fallen Flag. The Great Central( London Extension) Part 2At the BIG 4 grouping in 1923 the GC became part of the London & North Eastern Railway, the Midland and the L&NWR were part of the LMS.With Nationalization of British Railways in 1948 not a lot changed,with the GC being part of what now was the Eastern Region of BR. One great innovation was the introduction of what became known as the Windcutters, which were fast freights, hauled by the 9F 2-10-0 freight locos. These locos were on fast schedules between Nottingham and Woodford.It was in 1958 that the GC was transferred to the London Midland region and I'm afraid it was downhill from there. First the express passenger trains were withdrawn then many of the cross-country trains disappeared until all that was left was a semi-fast London Nottingham service and one cross-country train the York to Poole. The end of the London Extension came on September 6th 1966 with a small service between Rugby and Nottingham lasting a couple of more years.In the early days the GC was served by some handsome and good engines designed by J.G. Robinson. In LNER days there was even Gresleys A1(later A3) pacifics on the line, Flying Scotsman was allocated to Leicester Central Shed for a time. In BR days the ex LNER V2 2-6-2s and B1 4-6-0s gave way to LMS types. Some Royal Scot class locos, which had been displaced by diesels elsewhere, were allocated to Leicester. These locos were very run down but Leicester shed got them back into good condition and they did fine work. From what I read, as soon as the LM authorities heard of this they had the good Scots transferred away and sent another batch of rough engines to Leicester, which broke the moral. Old rivalries die hard indeed.One train in my youth that was well worth seeing on the GC, was the Grimbsy Fish train this was hauled by one of Immingham's Britannia Pacifics with names like Boadicea, Robin Hood or Hereward The Wake. Probably the best place to see the trains in Rugby was at the Girder Bridge where the GC crossed over the LMS, but I shall never forget being on Rugby Central station's island platform as a Windcutter came through with a 9F hauling a rake of 16 ton unbraked mineral wagons at unbelievable speed. How do you describe this when someone asks, "What do you see in steam trains?"PRESERVATIONFortunately a part of the GC main line as been saved. It is the stretch from Loughborough and the site of Belgrave & Birstal station to a new terminus station named Leicester North. About 2/3rds of the line is now back to double track. There are 3 of the original stations two being of the type that served smaller towns and a larger version that served Loughborough, all are of the island type. The station at Rothley is lit by gas lamps and it is a great Edwardian atmosphere to be there on a cold winter night with the steam loco wreathed in steam. There is also a fairly large museum at the preserved Quainton Road station,a few miles north of Aylesbury.The site is in two halves with the old GC/MET line passing through the station still seeing some use as a freight only lineThe locos of the GC were not as lucky with only 2 of the railway being saved. Although there are some of the GC locos that served in the war that found their way to Australia. One loco was a Robinson Director 4-4-0 # 506 BUTLER HENDERSON it ran for at time at Loughborough and is now in the National Railway Museum at York.The other is a 2-8-0 freight loco also part of the national collection. This loco was part of the Steam Railway magazine appeal to restore her and now she can be seen at work at Loughbourgh. Another appeal from the same mag, which caught the imagination, was some of the 16-ton mineral wagons were found at a motor manufacturer works after they were long gone on BR. The money raised bought a good rake of these and paid towards there upkeep. Having donated some money I was invited the first outing with these wagons and was there again when a 9F loco was returned to steam at Loughborough and hauled the wagons, apart from the loco being in immaculate condition it was like going back years.In the 70s a wonderful photographic book titled Main Line Lament by Colin Walker was published which featured the London extension. The cover photo was of a bare trackbed looking towards Catesby Tunnel taken on a moonlit midnight.I will be back later.Pete. pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, April 5, 2007 4:51 PM Hi Tom and all.Another Batham's and some Fish 'N' Chips for please RUTHDOUG Many thanks for those wonderful photos from the Sanfilippo Estate. I am sure you will get some answers on some of those really great models from the regulars.In the 3rd pic it is a Bedford lorry hauling, as we call them, a low-loader, with a traction engine in the bed I am not too up on traction engines. I have a friend in England who if I told him the NH 550 registration number visible on the traction engine he could tell me the make and whereabouts of the could the traction engine, usually from memory. I have a feeling the traction engine was made by John Fowler, but I cold be well wrong. I was looking for a photo of a Bedford Lorry (Truck) similar to the model but I found this preserved example of an earlier Bedford when it was in use for British Railways. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1356710744044442179IzbYRoMany thanks for the Great Northern W1 electric post. I am intrigued the two-wire three-phase system first used. I notice that more of the electric locomotives in the US had two cabs; where as most of the diesels are of the single cab design.Interesting that had one time UP had the largest steam diesel and electric locomotives although the electric loco was no longer working as an electric.Really looking forward to the next set of photos from your visit.Thanks for the joke and the kind words on the GC.JAMES Glad the snow as stopped up there.It is interesting to see how high the pantographs of those electrics could reach. On part of the Great Central line that was electrified on the 1,500 volt D.C. system between Manchester and Sheffield, over the Pennine hills, there is an area around a town called Pennistone where for some reason the electric wires were very high and the height of the pantographs was very unusual.Glad you enjoyed the Great Central, there is Part 2 today. In some ways I think it was a bit like the Milwaukee Road as it was the last main to reach London and had considerate opposition, like when the Milwaukee was trying last to reach the West Coast. Both lines had an electrified part of the lines.Many thanks for the very interesting post and links on the DL9s. The third window in the cab front was a distinctive feature. Units # 14 A and B must have been good locomotives clocking 3 million miles in 12 years. I guess that there were no DL9s saved for a museum.ERIC. I have found this link on the ‘Berne Gauge'. I did not know before I read this that the Swedish and Norwegian cars cannot run on other European lines. http://www.crowsnest.co.uk/gauge.htmIt seems strange that the link says that the name Berne Gauge was introduced in 1913 yet the GCR was open in 1899.perhaps it referred to the 1891 French gauge.There are some good photos of old Bedford trucks in the link I put in the reply to Doug.Liked the photo of you and the X2000 at Penn Station.CM3 Glad you liked the GC post. Many thanks for the details on the GN electrics and with a PRR connection and you saw the DL 9s working. What a wonderful story with your Grandmother. The Mauritania's hooter finished up on top of the power house roof of the factory I worked at in Rugby, along with a smaller hooter. They were used to signal start times in the morning and at lunch time, in the morning the hooter was sounded 15 minutes before the start time. The Mauritania hooter was usually sounded on special occasions as it used a fair bit of steam, when it was sounded it was said it could be heard, if the wind was right, in Coventry 12 miles away.The hooters were sounded at the exact time and at one point it was one of my fathers duties to sound the hooter. Te power house has gone now and I do not know what happened the ships hooter.DL Yes the PRR day was a great theme day, and for us not so familiar with North American railways a great amount of knowledge.Many thanks for the links to the Warships. I had not realized D601 had lasted until 1980 before being cut up, it surely deserved saving if only as am example of a North British diesel design. The Western were, I think, the most handsome design of BR diesels. I read recently where they were credited in reviving interest in BR by railfans after steam finished.Great info on the class14s and some great photos of the diesel hydraulics. Loved the pic of the name plates at the NRM.I hope you like my posts on the GCR; there is a book I mention at the end worth a look at if you come across it A pint of Harvey's does sound good especially in the bar at the Bluebell Railway.Have an Enjoyable Easter break.TOM Many thanks for the Great Northern and Empire Builder railroad from Yesteryear wanswheel Member sinceNovember 2005 4,190 posts Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, April 5, 2007 6:43 PM Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house"Orangutans are skeptical of changes in their cages." (Simon & Garfunkel)Zoo Interlockhttp://www.prrths.com/PRR_Images/zoo1961.jpghttp://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140433pv.jpgPRR 1361 formerly displayed at Horseshoe Curve, one of the 2 survivoring K-4s http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr1361.jpgMilwaukee Road DL-109 #14 Deerfield, Ill., June 22, 1946http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005224.jpgNew Haven DL-109 http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=200406050712584021.jpgGondolenhttp://www.maruschka.net/fotky/2005-12-stockholm/gondolen.jpghttp://www.smudo.org/blog/archives/images/lomo-b06-500.jpgKing Street Station Seattle http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/g/GNempbldginternkingst950.jpg.20435.jpgCatesby Tunnel http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/table.php?searchitem=%25catesby%25&mtv=L1&pnum=1http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lner/catesbytunnel.htmTunnel unknown, seems to resemble Catesbyhttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/3/37324.0355.JPG.36893.jpgHoosac Tunnel B&M Massachusettshttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/b/BM_1748.jpg.66830.jpgHermosa Tunnel UP Wyominghttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/026_26_2.jpg.20222.jpghttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/003.jpg.70352.jpgTunnel #3 Altamont Pass, WP Californiahttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/w/WP_804D_at_Tunnel_3_March_70.jpg.60571.jpgTacoma Public Library photo captions:On February 3, 1927, T.F. McGettigan, left, test engineer, and his helper E.R. "Red" Randolph, in doorway, pose with the great electric locomotive #5007 that they accompanied from Pittsburgh to Tacoma. The locomotive was constructed for the Great Northern Railroad by Baldwin Locomotive Works and Westinghouse Electric Co. working together. On completion, it was hitched to a through freight train, destination Everett, Wa. Although the engine was not working, it still needed care during the trip and McGettigan and Randolph were assigned that task. Freight trains make few stops and do not usually carry passengers, so the pair packed a ham and 13 dozen eggs and set up a small stove on the engine. They slept on planks suspended over the machinery and endured temperatures of 40 degrees below zero when crossing the Rockies. The behemoth locomotive was on display in Tacoma on February 2 and then proceeded on to Portland, then Everett, where it was placed into service.http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.org/images2/1/t4/31285.jpgChicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railroad locomotive class EP3, advertised as the largest and most powerful electric powered locomotive. The banner on the side of the train promotes the partnership of C.M. & St. P. railroad and Westinghouse Electric in the "World's mightiest, high-speed passenger locomotive, in service on new roller bearing 'Olympians' on the World's longest electrified railroad." The women leaning out of the windows wearing corsages are beauties from the Broadway Theater review on loan to the railroad which was shooting photographs for a brochure. The car was a new Chrysler Imperial 80 sedan loaned by the American Automobile Association to transport the girls. The new Olympian was the most modern and luxurious transcontinental transportation around. It ran on roller bearings, eliminating lurching jerks on stopping and starting. The Milwaukee Road electrified transcontinental railroad ran from Tacoma & Seattle to Chicago, over 660 miles and across four mountain ranges.http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.org/images2/31/t4/30721.jpgTacoma Union Stationhttp://www.tacomascene.com/railroading/1942_c_union_station_tacoma_pic.jpgMike EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Friday, April 6, 2007 1:11 AM Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!Leon, I'll have an early breakfast, coffee and a Cheese Danish!Back to normal time! I saw that a good portion of the country is back to coooold weather. Brrrr! We had 93°F today! Doug – I am looking forward to see your pictures on Saturday!!Ahh, W-1, one of my favorites!! Very interesting locomotives and powerful. What I find most interesting is that they had a motor-generator that drove the traction motors instead of a main transformer with necessary equipment. Considering the 12 traction motors generated only 5,000 hp the traction effort, 180,000 lbs, was very impressive. All thanks to the weight. Sweden had and still has two classes, Dm3 and IORE, with a starting tractive effort of 211,320 and 303,750 pounds respectively. Class Dm3, 211,320 pounds of T.E.Tom – Yeah, I was in a hurry to go to bed last night, that’s why I stopped by before midnight.In 1992 my wife and I flew from the old country to Chicago. She flew TWA and I was just behind flying AA. I think it was American who bought TWA, right? My GG1 model is pure PRR, nothing else. I understand your reaction completely! I miss Southern Pacific down here in Phoenix, but my wife is happy. She grow up close to UP in Nebraska. Thanks for the GN article! The Empire Builder started running in 1929 and is still running, 78 years later! I actually traveled exactly the same rout woith the X2000 from Chicago to Portland. CM3 – Too bad PRR didn’t buy any W-1! Thanks for the GN info! DL – I checked the info on Class 42 and 43 and found some strange numbers. Did the fuel tank really hold only 270 gallons? That does not sound right to me. D600 held 800 gallons. Thanks for the links!Pete – “What do you see in steam-trains?” I guess first and foremost the steam locomotive that I (as a kid) was extremely fascinated of. A huge machine with a number of wheels bigger than myself and hissing steam everywhere. A lot of noise and steam when it started. It was in my eyes unimaginable that someone (the engineer) could control such a beast with moving parts everywhere and still look relaxed haning out through the window. No wonder I decided to become an engineer! Thank you for part 2! In a way life was better in the old times! But today is not bad!So I was right! It was a Bedford tractor (sorry, lorry)! Bedord trucks were kind of common in Sweden in the 50’s. That is why I recognized it!That is correct, passenger cars in Sweden and Norway are wider than in the rest of Europe. Direct cars from Stockholm to e.g. Berlin have always been German made cars of the same type as in Germany. The Swedish State Railways actually had quite a few freight cars that ran between Sweden and Great Britain in the 60’s and 70’s. They were not as wide as the regular freight cars. X2000 was too wide for a number of tracks at Penn Station and was not allowed to run on those tracks (track 14 was one of them). The platforms were too close to the track. Mike – Wow, some very good links! To my surprise I even found two pictures of Gondolen, a restaurant in Stockholm, to which you take an elevator. I have been there a number of times.Also two nice pictures of the Zoo Interlocking in Philadelphia! Thank you!Eric Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 6, 2007 4:57 AM Good morning Tom and friends. A light breakfast please on this cold and windy morning. Can't wait to get my air conditioning installed now! Glad ya'll liked the GN piece. Thanks to CM3 for supplementing the info and Tom for supported the theme with Wikepedia stuff. No need to save stuff like that over here, I have a plethora of material on just about anything. Trouble is knowing where to find it! I just hope ya'll find these random posts of some interest. Great to see DL and the second part of Peters GC article. We're fortunate to have someone who has seen the line operated do the storytelling for us. Appreciate the reference to supporting reading material as well. Didn't reallt expect anyone to research the toy pix from the Sanfilippo Estate, but glad to see it happen anyway. Thanks! More great URLs from Mike, as usual, and Eric provided more W-1 information too.Here's the first part of a traction piece, which may or may not smoke out Rob for some comments:Boston's Narrow Gauge Electrics by Charles A. BrownTo those who knew it best, it was just "The Narrow Gauge", although its full corporate name was the Boston Revere Brach & Lynn RR (BRB&L). Note that there was no expressed ambition to go beyond those bounds, no "and Western" or "and Pacific". Until the little line quit in January, 1940, it served well the intended communities of Boston's near North Shore, providing convenient connections with downtown Boston by ferry from the East Boston railhead. Built in 1875 as a narrow-gauge steam road, the line prospered for many years under conservative New England management. As a steam road, the BRB&L rostered a fleet of Mason-bogie locomotives from such distinguished New England locomotive builders as mason, Taunton, Manchester and Hickley, with an outlander Porter thrown in for good measure. As was the case of many railroads built in the latter part of the nineteenth century, the Narrow Gauge was part and parcel of a real estate promotion. This combination worked well, and the line was responsible for the settling of much seashore land in its territory: Orient Heights, Beachmont, Winthrop, Revere Beach, and Point of Pines.Patronage backbone was commuter traffic into Boston. The road's ferry terminal at Rowes Wharf was convenient to the financial district and to the Rowes Wharf station of the Atlantic Avenue rapid transit elevated line. Surface cars, and later buses, of the Boston Elevated Railway coming from City Point (South Boston) terminate at the Narrow Gauge station. These connections with the greater Boston transit network brought bonus traffic to the Narrow Gauge in the form of throngs of pleasure seekers in summer, looking for relief from the heat and oppression of city life in the days before air conditioning. Revere Beach boasted as many as five roller coaster rides at one time, plus the other attractions of a major amusement park. For less adventurous souls, there was (and still is) sandy Crescent Beach.Rowes Wharf station of the Narrow Gauge was handy to the covered stairs serving the elevated station of the same name. In this 1940 photo, the Atlantic Avenue elevated line is closed, a factor that worked to dry up much of the Narrow Gauge traffic.An early proposal to electrify the Narrow Gauge was made in 1911 by the New Haven Railroad, to follow the pattern of the road's Nantucket Beach electrification completed in 1895. Nothing came of this proposal, however, and the Narrow Gauge continued to plod along with its ancient Mason-bogie steamers hauling 19th century Laconia open-platform coaches.Lower quadrant semaphore signals protect much of the Narrow Gauge, with some three color signals at strategic points. Revere, 10/15/39In 1927 the line changed hands, losing its conservative New England management and falling into the hands of New York investors headed by the engineering firm of Hemphill & Wells, who forthwith declared that the line would become an electrical railroad. By the end of 1928, the promised electrification was complete. Gone were all but one Mason-bogie locomotives. No. 14 was retained until 1940 to heat the road's shops at Orient Heights. The fleet of Laconia open-platform coaches was converted to electric propulsion, complete with trolley poles, multiple-unit equipment, and one motor truck supplied by Wason; the trailing truck was still the original MCB unit. The General Electric Co., of on-line Lynn, became the supplier of overhead catenary, power equipment, and the control and traction equipment on the ancient rolling stock.All dressed up with somewhere to go, coach 64 is ready to tour the main line with the carload of hobbyists. 10/15/39Unfortunately, changing times brought this efficient little railroad to a quick demise only eleven years after its electrification. During the late 19th century and well into the early 20th, the line had but little competition, from the nearly parallel line of standard-gauge Eastern RR (later the Boston & Maine). In 1904 a streetcar tunnel was built between Scollay Square Boston and Maverick Square East Boston, eliminating the ferry trip for those wishing to ride the trolleys of the Boston Elevated Railway under the harbor. This took a bite out of Narrow Gauge traffic, despite the second fare and change of cars necessary to reach Revere Beach from Boston. In 1936, the Boston Elevated acquired the Chelsea Division of the Eastern Mass. St. Railway. This move eliminated the second fare when riding the trolleys between Boston and Revere Beach, taking another bite out of Narrow Gauge traffic. In the meantime, the American love affair with the automobile had brought about the building of the Sumner Tunnel, enabling motorists to drive under Boston Harbor to Narrow Gauge communities. Another bite out of the hide of the Narrow Gauge. Economies of the 30's included the acquisition of four one-man cars for late night service. These cars were semi-convertible types of the 4300 series, from the Eastern Mass. St. Railway, and were rarely seen on the line in daylight. It took a special trip in October, 1939 to bring this class out for a spin on the Winthrop branch, much to the delight of railroad hobbyists.A rare 4-car train on the Winthrop branch passes the storage yard at Orient HeightsBy the end of the ‘30s. It was apparent that the railroad could no longer flourish in the modern world. The year 1937 had seen the line enter bankruptcy, from which it never recovered. The death blow came in 1938, when the Boston Elevated Railway discontinued its Atlantic Avenue elevated service, depriving the Narrow Gauge of its Rowes Wharf rapid transit connection. Despite community pressure, especially from Winthrop, the railroad gave up on January 27, 1940.On one of the many trestles on the Winthrop branch, ca 200 pauses for photos. The drawbridge in the background is so delicately balanced that it is raised and lowered by one man and a hand crankFerry service between Rowes Wharf and the East Boston rail terminal was provided by double-end side-wheel ferry boats with such New England names as "Brewster", "Ashburnham", "Newton", "Dartmo Edit « First«25262728293031»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter Submit More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Pennsylvania Railroad's GG1
The GG1 was designed by the Pennsylvania Railroad based on the need for a locomotive that could pull more than 12 to 14 passenger cars. The railroad thought it had designed the perfect electric passenger locomotive, the P-5a, but as the P-5a locomotives arrived, it became necessary to double head them on many trains in order to protect schedules. Two other factors were involved in the development of the GG1. The chassis and wheel arrangement were a result of experiments with a leased New Haven EP3a and the streamlined body and center crew cab were an outcome of concern for crew safety. A tragic grade crossing accident in which a box cab P-5a hit a truck killing the engineer, reinforced the need for better protection for the crew. After the accident, a hold was put on further manufacture of the box cab P-5a and the locomotive was redesigned to include a center crew cab. The GG1 was given a sculptured carbody with contoured hoods that were tapered to provide visibility for the enginemen. As a result, a very aesthetically pleasing design evolved. Raymond Loewy, the renowned industrial designer, reviewed the prototype and recommended welding the shell rather than using rivets. He then suggested adding the famous pin stripes, making the design an award winner. The railroad built 139 units (#4800 through #4938) between the years 1934 and 1943. Many of them were built at the Juniata Locomotive Shop in Altoona, PA. This streamlined locomotive, designed for bidirectional operation was mainly used for passenger trains, but a few were regeared for freight service. The GG1 survived longer than any other American locomotive design, lasting from 1934 to well into the 1980s. The 79.5 foot long 230+ ton GG1 was built on an articulated frame which permitted its 2-C+C-2 wheel arrangement to negotiate tight curves even in congested areas. Power was picked up from an overhead 11,000 Volt AC catenary wire by a pantograph and the voltage stepped-down through an on board transformer to feed the 12 single phase 25 cycle traction motors. Each of these motors developed 385 HP giving the GG1 a total of 4620 HP in continuous operation and allowed speeds up to 100 mph. The body of the locomotive also housed large blowers for motor and transformer cooling, a steam boiler for passenger car heat, electric controllers and sanding boxes. Of the 139 units built, only 16 survive today. Some have been restored superficially and can be visited as shown below. It is not likely that any of these survivors will ever run again because of the prohibitive cost to rebuild or replace the electrical components. Will a GG1 ever run again? A GG1 will probably never run again. Steam locomotives can be restored through extraordinary efforts, if needed, to repair or remanufacture mechanical parts. Once a steam locomotive has been restored, all one needs is coal (or oil) and water, to have the ability to run if track is available. The GG1 survivors have had their transformers removed, many of the traction motors have shorted out and all of the other current carrying parts have deteriorated to the point of uselessness. The one exception may be 4935 in Strasburg, PA which may be capable of actually running if a transformer and a proper catenary were available. The GG1 was a 25 cycle (HZ) machine for which the PRR maintained their own substation to provide the 25 cycle current. Locomotives today are capable of operating on 25 HZ or 60 HZ and most railroads are using 60 HZ so they can buy power directly from the power companies and avoid the expense of maintaining their own substations. There is also a possible problem with contamination from PCB's, which to this point no one talks about. The GG1 transformer was cooled with a fluid known generically as Askarel (a non-flammable synthetic liquid dielectric). This liquid contains PCB's, and any evidence of PCB's would be a show stopper. Many of the GG1s had developed cracks in their frames which means major repair or replacement would be needed. In addition the drivers, the trucks, and the carbody would have to refurbished. After that, all new electrical components and controls would have to be furnished. This could possibly cost around $1.5 to $2.0 million. I seriously doubt that anyone would spend the money to get a GG1 to run. Some have spent large sums to refurbish steam locomotive but only where there has been available track to allow excursion to provide payback. With all new electrical equipment and modern controls, this new GG1 could run on the Northeast Corridor or any other electrified railroad but, it would not be an authentic GG1, it would simply be a modern electric locomotive with the carbody of a GG1. Unfortunately changes in technology have finally, after 60 years, forced the retirement of the most durable locomotive of all time. The Pennsylvania Railroad GG1: The "Congressionals" and "The Senator" In 1885, the PRR introduced a passenger train that ran between New York City and Washington, DC with limited stops along the route. This train, known as the " Congressional Limited Express", became the favorite train for businessmen and politicians. As traffic increased, more "limiteds" were added to the railroad's schedule and by the 1940's there were, among many "limiteds" two "Congressionals", one leaving Washington for New York and one leaving New York for Washington each afternoon , except Sunday. These two very popula
Good Morning Barkeep and all present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Let's play "Up and Down the Monon" for the mascots - they seem to enjoy that one.
Interesting night last night as the whole world lit up at about 1:00 a.m. with rain, hail, thunder, etc. It didn't last too long, and there is snow in the forecast for later.
Local news is that CSX (C&O actually) put several coal cars on the ground last night along Coal River and managed to partially submerge at least one locomotive. Of course, there was a fuel spill. No injuries, but it is a mess. There was a slide along the tracks and they hit a large rock and away things went from there.
Let's try and sort things out in the way of comments. Before I forget, thanks to all for the kind words re the Geography Bee. I don't know who has the tougher job; the contestants or the folks in the audience. I sat in the back and had fun trying to answer the questions - my problem is that I see old maps in my head. IOW, the sun "Nevah sets on the Empiah." I'll bet the mariners in the group remember charts that said "Here Be Dragons." Back off Boris, I'm stopping now.
DL - The TGV was all over the news here last night and this a.m.
Pete - Thanks for the kind words.
We sure had a lot of PRR-related postings
Lars brought the bookmobile around for a visit. The PRR consist book is well worth the money. It has a lot of pictures of different cars in addition to data. The Broadway Limited book, IIRC, is one I mentioned awhile back - it's worth the $ as well. Last, Paul Withers has produced a multivolume series relating to Pennsylvania diesels. I have all of them. Not much in the way of war, but lots of technical data and pictures - again of interest to the Captains of Industry in the group. The Morning Sun books depicted all have good material, but I like to page through them before I buy. They have done a multivolume set called Pennsy Disel Years which is better than average. Also, b4 I forget, thanks for the repost of material from the old thread.
Barndad sent us some more Westing writing. I almost forgot one of his best works is an old timer about PRR E6 and other classes titled Apex of the Atlantics.
I had some fun enlarging the pictures. The 4790 was photographed at Sunnyside as was the switcher. Look carefully to the left of the picture and you can see some New Haven cars. The shot of the PRR engines just outside Penn Station is the "hole" I mentioned in my post - look hard and you'll see a New Haven EP4 in the background.
Mike sent us some shots as well which are revealing of things Pennsy.
Take a look at the pictures of Broad Street Station in Philadelphia. The first picture, which is probably a lithograph, shows the station as built with the train shed. The train shed burned and was replaced with the platforms as shown in the last picture of Broad Street. Somewhere in my stack of stuff, I have shots of the fire fighting activities and the reconstruction work done by the railroad to get things up and going quickly.
The pictures of Elizabeth, NJ, showed a lot of shall we say, industrial archaeology. The station at Elizabeth sits on an S curve - great for photography as trains had to slow down some going through there. Take a look at the PRR tracks. There is a bridge in the middle of the picture. The tracks under the P Company belong to the Central Railroad Company of New Jersey. The CNJ's Elizabeth Station is beside the CBNJ tracks just to the right of the PRR bridge.
We will not even discuss the demolition of Penn Station as Boris would have to sedate me. It's truly an awful place now. The best thing you can say about it is that there's one !@#$ of a train set in the basement!
The pictures of Horseshoe were good - I can smell the brake shoe smoke. I have not been up there in a long time. Anyway, checkout the coal train picture. Second unit in the consist (just for James) is a GP30 with train phone antenna. Don't hardly see those anymore, Ethel.
Metroliner in Washington - rode them more than few times. Reserving Metroliner tickets from an offline city was an interesting process which we maybe can talk about sometime later. Look hard at the picture and you'll see an Atlantic Coast Line baggage car in the background. That's what I always liked about Washington back in the day was that there was so !@#$ much to see, especially if you went up the road a little bit to the engine terminal at Ivy City. Two main lines (PRR and B&O) plus all kinds of power in the engine facility.
James sent some pictures as well. Centipedes were truly bestial to maintain. The P Company used them in passenger service originally where their reliability was less than stellar, so they were reassigend to helper service on what the P Company called "mineral" trains. Just as you might think, coal and ore. They did a little better there because speed was not an issue. They could pull about anything as you might expect. Mechanically, another story altogether - traction motors on each axle - I'd hate to ahve to work on one. The Seaboard also had them.
OSP sent a lot of material including historical summaries, name train list (man did I check off a few on that one), and some nice pieces of art work. Two different schemes on G motors, E44s (remember those real well - they were what a buddy of mine called, "Apartment houses with wheels," especially when they mued them. Multiple Gs of freights were not that uncommon. Last the picture of the Broadway in I would guess New Jersey somewhere, was interesting because of the two stainless cars in the middle of the train - again not all that uncommon, especially in the latter years.
Well, I've gone on enough. New York Central next week? I'm ready if you are.
Work safe
Another busy day at the house. Got a phone call this morning that the guys who are going to do the basement sealing can come today so a busy morning moving the rocks in front of what was a small flower patch in front of the house but is now rapidly becoming a deep trench. So RUTH a nice Batham's to ease my aching back..
Really great reading on the PRR since I last posted.
DOUG Really great post on the K class and locomotive No 10 .Then some great photos from the 1989 magazine of some of the,to me, leeser known Pennsy electric locomotives. It would be interesting to know the story about those L6A locos, with only No 5940 of the class to be in service while some others were uncompleted at Altoona.
MIKE Many thanks for the usual excellent links.I noticed what I think is a rarity in the U.S.a traffic roundabout in the pic of Newark. great postcard of Jersey City..
JAMES Thanks for the link to the 3 great photos.I hope the snow clearing when OK, I think I would prefer the snow to moving rocks.
ERIC That is a great video link to the French Record breaking run, even going over points at that speed. The views from the overbridges really give a idea how fast the train is moving. Many thanks for sharing the link..
Like you I am wary of the copyright laws so I only use my own photos or the ones Alan sends and lets me use.
LARS You certainly know how to get on the Bosses good side with those great posts on the GG1s and the Broadway Limited. Mr Loewy was a talented designer as he designed the equipment for the Limited as well as the GG1s. Great photos as well. Looking at the pics, to see the GG1s at there best the locos had to be clean, to show off that, to me, wonderful very dark green color. It is a bit of a coincedence that the principle steam loco class of the ex LMS, the Duchesses, in BR days had some locos in Brunswick Green and others in Maroon.although the green was a lighter shade than that used on the GG1s.
CM3 Glad you are OK after last nights storm.I wonder if it waspart of the front that went through here and Tom,s area.
Many thanks for the decriptions on the links and photos. I too liked the pic of the brakeblocks smoking on the horseshoe curve. I wonder if the steam loco that is on display in one of the pics of the curve is still there.
TOM Really enjoyed reading that great and detailed post on the PRR the railroad certainly was 'Gold Standard'.There must have been a lot of sad fans of the road when it merged with the NYC to form Penn Central.
It will be good to see the GG1 at St Louis at the rendezvous.
You will have to come over to see the 'wireless optical mouse' on the puter. You are right, I do not have a lot of luck with batteries or films for that matter.
I though I would post a piece I found in word on the last main line to be built in England as the Channel Tunnel high speed link is do to open later this year
As a boy there were two stations serving my hometown of Rugby. They were both island stations although the LMS station Rugby Midland was much larger with two very long platforms with bays at both ends, with the through lines and the goods lines passing on both sides. The Rugby Central was much smaller with the main line passing the platform faces and a goods loop on the up (towards London) and just a siding on the down. The line passed through Rugby in a 1 ¾ mile cutting that was 48 feet at its deepest.
The present Midland station is the 3rd one opening in 1885; the line first arrived in Rugby in 1838. This is planned to be completely remodeled soon as part of the West Coast Modernization.
The Great Central was born from the Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway serving the area in its title. It had a branch that served the Nottinghamshire coalfield in the Colwick area near to Nottingham. It was from this that the chairman of the MS&LR Sir Edward Watkin planned his new railway south. Watkin was also chairman of the Metropolitan Railway, serving the northern suburbs of London. and of the South Eastern Railway, serving as the name suggested, the south east of England. It was Sir Edwards dream to connect these lines and run them to a tunnel under the English Channel to France. He was about 100 years ahead of his time!
The Act of Parliament to build the London Extension was obtained in 1893. The line was built as a double track main line, with deep cuttings and ruling grade of 0.8%, built to the Berne Gauge which was larger than most of the other UK lines. It was an expensive line to build with the railway going through the large cities of Nottingham and Leicester on brick viaducts.
On the approach to London the GC shared tracks with the Metropolitan The line open in 1899.The GC established a large locomotive shed in a small village called Woodford Halse about 20 miles south of Rugby south of Woodford a branch line was built to connect the GC with The Great Western Railway at Banbury on the GWR main line from London to Birmingham. This connection gave the GC a great deal of traffic opening up a route to the South coast and South Wales. The GC enjoyed a good relationship with the GWR, unlike the fierce rivalry with the Lond
Good afternoon Tom and friends! Time for a bottomless draught and a round for the house! I have yet another heating/air conditioning guy coming to see me in a few minutes to quote installation of an air conditioning system. Hardly seems practical if we never see warm weather. We'll be running to the stable tonight to re-blanket the horse.
Quite the outpouring of quality stuff since my last visit. The GG1 definitely wins the "most posted" picture form our PRR theme day. The one we have at IRM ran the New York Central before its sentencing to Amtrak. Glad you liked the plagarized recycled PRR stuff Peter. I see Mike graced us with a plethopra of URLs. I viewed many, and they're worth the look ... made all the more interesting by the commentary from our own experts, Eric, Cm3 and Peter. Very impressive gentlemen! Lars wins the GG1 pix posting prize, with a healthy portion of information too. Captain Tom reposted a fine Wikepedia article, and James shook the snow off his boots long enough to drop in, post some pix and make me wonder if I had any information on Centipedes. As for myself, I've got a little something going to entice Rob to make comment, but of course everyone here is welcome to do the same. In the meantime, here's a little sneak-peak at some pix from the Sanfilippo Estate. Wish I knew something about these models, but there were no signs or people available to explain them.
You gotta love this. A steam operated fan!
More pix coming this Saturday. Here's the builders plate on the locomotive
This Kentucky horse breeder had a filly that won every race in which she was entered. But as she got older she became very temperamental. He soon found that when he raced her in the evening, she would win handily, but when she raced during the day she would come in dead last. He consulted the top veterinarians and horse psychologists to no avail. He finally had to give up because it had become a real night mare.
Leon- A coffee and turkey sandwich for me, and a round for the house. Thanks
The snow is over and we now have blue skies. I think it should stop now and go on to spring like it's suppose to do. Time will tell.
On to acknowledgements.
Pete- Ya at first I thought it was a steam engine too. But I was looking up C30-7s and knew that it couldn't be a steamer. That's what happens when you a get a bit o' oil in the cylinder chamber. My guess is that some of the oil rings around the cylinder head are leaking a bit o' oil in to the chamber and in return you get a lot of smoke. Then again it is an old GE!
Nice picture of the Pennsy GG1. That is a beautifully restored locomotive. But I did notice that the pantograph is stretched out to the max. I suppose to show how high it's able to stretch but it usually would only go about 6 to 8 feet before hitting the wire. Just a little pointer outer.
Moving rocks? Ya I would have to agree with that. Are you building a wall? Glad you liked the pics. I thought the night of the Pennsy station was the best. I always love seeing old signals. They make a good back ground for most pictures. Also a good article on the fallen flag, The Great Central. It was interesting to learn that sir Edward had already thought about building a tunnel under the English channel. Probably never thought of calling it the Chunnel if it were ever built. Cool stuff.
Eric- Well, Duluth does have its up and downs and this would be one of the downs. Interesting that you found a couple of SD60Ms with the numbers. They are newer than the C30-7 so I'm sure the new numbering system came into affect. I know there are a couple of the C30-7 still around but they have been numbered something like 2400 or 3000 series now. Ah the X2000. It's hard to tell from a cab shot. I would certainly like to ride the Acela someday and actually see what 150 mph is like. Of course 357.2 mph on the TGV is also a fast speed too........ Nice picture of the X2000 and the GG1.
Doug- Really liked the article on the Pennsy steam and semaphores. The Semaphores are really cool. Really liked the fact that Fred had pointed out the air compressor pipe. That was a while ago before they went over the switch machine mechanism. Very cool Thanks for sharing. Also thanks for the second article of Pennsy steam and semaphores. All of those different types of steamers. Very cool. When you mentioned the American 4-4-0 I instantly thought of the William Crooks and all the pictures of it parked at the Depot here in Duluth back in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Thanks for the most interesting articles.
Ah yes the electric E60. Very similar to the Milwaukee road's Westinghouse electrics. Even though they weren't as short as that. To bad to read that all of the electric switchers are gone. They were certainly a wonderful piece of railroad history. Thanks for the pictures and articles.
I'm sorry I had to make you wonder if you had information on the centipedes. But if you do it would certainly be read by me. I have always been interested in the history behind these exceptionally large locomotives. Interesting looking model pics you have there. Wish you knew something about them. I saw that steam powered fan and that caught my eye. I have never seen anything like it. I have seen belt driven, electric and even air power, but not steam. Very cool thanks for sharing.
Tom- I will definitely keep the Copyright in mind. But no need to worry. I did send in permission for it. But I have learned that you can use the urls to the pictures to show any pictures off. So that's helpful. But I will be careful.
Thanks for the fallen flags info on the Pennsy along with some nice posters. The named passenger train info was really nice. I never knew how many passenger trains one railroad could have. Also some interesting names they had for some of those trains, like the Susquehannock. Interesting name.
Great paintings of the Pennsy electrics and diesels. I was really impressed with the E-44 painting. That was a really neat painting. Now I just need to go ahead and paint it and I will be set for life. Also nice article on the trains of yesteryear: The Pennsy. I have a head full of train knowledge, so I crammed all that info in there to. Great explanations on it's steam locomotives and the history behind the railroad. Overall I learned a lot from the merger of the Penn central to the history. Great addition to the theme of the day. Thanks for sharing.
CM3- Ya, I've heard a lot about the slug units. They were an interesting contrast of the GP30. I think they need a cab before I could call them a GP30. I've run the Soo GP30 and they are a wonderful piece of machinery. I hope to get back and run it again this summer. Very good article on the passenger trains at the Pennsy station. It was fascinating to read about all the sights that he would pass as the train went through the country side. When I got down to the Zoo interlocking and started to wonder about it. Do you have any pictures of the Zoo interlocking? I would really enjoy seeing that interlocking terminal. Thanks for the article, it was fascinating.
Thanks for the info on the centipede. I really couldn't imagine working on one of those things. Infact I don't think I could. That would be a nightmare.
Lars- Thanks for the book covers. Some pretty n
Leon- Thanks but I am still working on my first cup of coffee.
Pete- Alright, I have the DL109 info for you and for anyone who wants to learn about these unique locomotives!
The ALCO DL-109 is one of six models of A1A-A1A diesel locomotives built to haul passenger trains by the American Locomotive Company (ALCO) between December, 1939 and April, 1945 ("DL" stands for Diesel Locomotive). They were of a cab unit design, and both cab-equipped lead A units DL-103b, DL-105, DL-107, DL-109 and cabless booster B units DL-108, DL-110 models were built. The units were styled by the industrial designer Otto Kuhler, who incorporated the trademark 3-piece windshield design. A total of 74 cab units and 4 cabless booster units were built.
The different models were sequentially offered and all developed 2,000 hp (1,500 kW). The differences between the cab units DL-105, DL-107, DL-109 and between the booster units DL-108 and DL-110 were minor. The first unit built to ALCO Specification DL-103b, the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad #624, was 4 ft 5 in (1.3 m) longer than the other cab units. The DL-103b had the two radiator sections positioned together at the end of the carbody, while all other units had a split radiator arrangement with one placed at the back of the unit and one situated in the middle. The DL-103b was built with twin straight-6-cylinder ALCO 538T diesel engines as prime movers; all other DLs in this series were built with the newer twin straight-6-cylinder ALCO 539T diesel engines. The DL-103b also had all-electric driven accessories, while the later models had belt-driven accessories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OP-15291.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Santa_Fe_DL109.jpg
History
The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad received special permission from the War Production Board to purchase #0710-#0759 as dual-use (passenger/freight) locomotives; they were built between 1942-1945. The first 10, #0700-#0709, were delivered right after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December of 1941 from ALCO's Schenectady factory. The New Haven owned the most DL-109s, rostering 60 units in 1945.
There were three classes among the New Haven units noting some differences between the manufacture of each batch. The DER-1a (Diesel-Electric Road) units #0700-#0709 had the original design with a mass of vents on the roof, while the DER-1b (#0710-#0749) and DER-1c (#0750-#0759) had the simplified winterization hatches instead. The New Haven DL-109s could be found hauling passenger trains during the day and freight trains at night. The class was rebuilt once, replacing the plywood sides, removing the decorative side windows in favor of a steel screen, and several other changes.
Two DL-109s received a special rebuild to make them able to "MU" (multiple unit) with more than one other unit; originally they only had the MU cables on the rear meaning that only a back-to-back pair could be made. The two special units had cables put on the front so they could be used to make a 3-unit set for longer trains. One of the units had the nose rebuilt with an access door, raising the headlight and changing the contour of the nose.
The DL-109s eventually ran their last miles in the late 1950s in local commuter service around Boston. One special unit was retained through the 1960s in Boston as a power plant; PP-716 was converted to produce power for a test third rail in Boston. Eventually PP-716 became the last DL-109 on the face of the Earth and fell to the scrappers torch under the Penn Central.
The other railroad's DL-109s were primarily scrapped during the 1950s. One notable pair on the Milwaukee Road lived charmed lives. Units #14A, B were delivered in October 1941, and paired up to run the Chicago-Minneapolis Afternoon Hiawatha and overnight Fast Mail back to Chicago. The units, along with EMD E6 #15A, B performed wonderfully during World War II with consists of Hiawathas expanding up to 20 cars and standing room only. The paint scheme was designed by Otto Kuhler, who had designed most of the 1938 Hiawatha and
Good evening Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Hello Leon, tonight I'll have my Sugar Cured Ham Sandwich! On rye of course! Coffee!
A lot of interesting reading about PRR today! I am impressed! Learned a lot of new facts. 44 days to the Rendezvous! Time flies!
Tom – Don’t worry, the GG1 Amtrak gave me is PRR green and does not have any Amtrak logo on it! Thanks for a very informative article on PRR! Very interesting!! It is too bad they are no longer around! Amazing to read that PRR abandoned most of the newly built New Portage Railroad in 1857. Brand new railroad! Part of it was reopened in 1904. A low-grade line, in what way was it “low”? Axle load due to not so heavy rails, or what? I am happy to say I have been to all PRR major passenger stations by train! Lars – Thank you for the history of GG1!! 139 units! 50 years of service! Not bad at all! I am afraid that you are correct about the chances to see a GG1 operational again. It could be done but it would have a lot of new equipment inside. Very nice pictures of those electric locomotives!I didn’t know that Amtrak is no longer running Broadway Limited! I must have been asleep! CM3 – You are right, Ivy City is a very interesting place! Pete – Thanks for the Great Central story (part 1). Berne Gauge, I have never heard that name before. Whwt exactly did it mean? Doug – Nice pictures of some interesting items! First the tractor-trailer, it looks like the tractor is a model of a British Bedford. Correct? The steam operated fan, is it really steam operated? Where is the water tank? Looking at the angles of the fan blades I think it is the heated air from the kerosene (?) burner that is powering that fan. Very interesting device indeed! I have never seen anything like it before. James – I am sure Duluth has many ups! But in my eyes snow is very much down! I have never been to Duluth but would like to go there one day! Maybe when I have retired. I have the Zoo Interlocking on video but not on any pictures! When I get some more time I am going to transfer all my videos to DVDs and then I should be able to get some pictures out of them. But I don’t know when that will happen. Thanks for the info on the DL-109! So they had two 6-cylinder engines! Interesting! The first time I have seen a Santa Fe DL-109! Glad you got your Milwaukee moment! Below is a PRR moment!
Sweeping the PRR rails! Penn Station 1993.
Good morning Tom and gang. I'll have a light breakfast please. James has been extra busy since my last visit. First with some very inclusive acknowledgements, and then information on the ALCO DL-109. Speaking of which, I was remiss in acknowledging Peter's part I of the Great Central yesterday. Sorry about that. To answer Eric's question, yes, that fan is steam operated, though I can't imagine the fan blades turning very fast. I lost track of the number of steam engines in and around the Estate, but you'll be seeing some pictures of them this Saturday, amazingly in better than new condition!
Here's a little something to read with you morning coffees from Elctroliner
Great Northern Railway W-1 by Joseph Cunningham
American railway electrification has produced some notable locomotives. The largest of all were constructed for the Great Northern in 1947. The GN's installation was neither long in mileage nor did it serve major population centers. Its purpose was simple: moving heavy freight and through passenger trains across the Cascade mountain range by way of the Cascade Tunnel. Electric power was first installed in 1909 to eliminate tunnel smoke problems and increase total capacity on the route. This initial electrification, which employed a two wire, three phase power supply (running rails formed a third circuit), was replaced in 1927 by the standard single-phase system. A major route improvement that offered better grades, faster running and a new 7 ¾ mile long tunnel coincided with the conversion of the simpler 11,000 volt 25 Hz electrification. At the same time two new fleets of motive power, one Westinghouse, the other General Electric, were acquired to handle trains through the new tunnel - the nation's longest - which opened in 1929.
After World War II longer and heavier freight trains became common, and additional traffic resulted from rapid development of Pacific coastal areas. To expedite handling of the increased business, two new locomotives were ordered from General Electric. Classified W-1, they had streamlined, welded steel bodies with operating cabs at each end in the manner of most electrics of that era. Wheel arrangement followed the previous practice of locating large multi-axle trucks (in this case paired four-axle units) under the main body, with two-axle guiding trucks at either end. In fact, the W-1s would be the last to use this design. They were, however, the first to apply traction motors to all axles, a practice followed on all later electrics. With twelve motors - two on each end guiding truck, four on each main truck - generating 5000 hp and the locomotive's 360 tons resting entirely on powered axles, a W-1 could exert an enormous starting tractive effort of 180,000 pounds. This was thirty percent greater than the biggest steam power, Union Pacific's 4-8-8-4 "Big Boys" could produce. By comparison, the Milwaukee Road's EF-4 "Little Joe" electrics put out 5110 continuous p but could only exert 110,000 pounds of tractive effort. Although total weight of the EF-4 was about 67 tons less, and maximum speed 20 miles per hour faster, a major cause of the difference was the use of unpowered axles in the guiding trucks of the EF-4 units.
Electrically the W-1s were a later version of the 1927-1929 units. Line voltage was stepped down and fed to motor-generator sets which drove the twelve GE-746 DC traction motors. Control and motor cooling equipment was included with the primary equipment in the main body portion, while baking some auxiliary electric equipment was placed in the nose of the cab, a standard practice on electrics and many diesels of that era. Operating on fast freight and passenger schedules in rugged country, the giants performed well, reaching service speeds up to 65 mph. Regenerative braking could develop up to 6000 hp and simplified the handling of heavy trains on grades.
Operating crews appreciated the comforts of the new units but did remark on the noticeable height of the cab, a point particularly notable as one approached the Cascade Tunnel's portal at speed. Multiple-unit wiring permitted both locomotives to work together if needed.
No. 5019 hauling a freight out of Skykomish Washington April 5, 1953. Collection of J.R. Quinn
Electric service continued for nine years during which time extensions were considered and two General Electric demonstrator locomotives were tried. But terminal and tunnel electrifications were being dismantled on roads all over the United States, with through diesel operation being substituted. Great Northern's 74-mile mountain electrification was an obvious target for such economy moves. With high-pressure blowers at one portal and automatic doors at the other, a successful tunnel exhaust system was available. Electric operation ended in July 1956. Older electrics were sold or scrapped. The two W-1 units were put up for sale but with no buyers were forthcoming. One, No. 5019, was scrapped. The other, 5018, was purchased by Union Pacific but not for use as an electric. At that time, UP was operating a considerable fleet of oil-fired gas-turbine locomotives. Seeking to explore the possibilities and problems involved in coal turbine locomotives, No. 508 was stripped and refitted as No. 81, a coal turbine, in 1962. After a six-year test in which turbine damage from fly ash led to termination of the experiment, No. 81 was scrapped in 1968. Assembly was then just beginning on the custom built DD40AX "Centennial" diesels for the Union Pacific. Thus it happened that the largest electric (built for the Great Northern) ended up on the Union Pacific which had operated the largest steam - The Big Boy - and would soon operate the largest diesel - The Centennials.
A man is at work one day when he notices that his male co- worker is wearing an earring. This man knows his co-worker to be a normally conservative fellow, and is curious about his sudden change in "fashion sense." "Yo, Bob, I didn't know you were into earrings." "Oh, yeah, sure," says Bob sheepishly. "Really? How long have you been wearing one?" "Ever since my wife found it in our bed!"
Well whadyano, it's Thursday once again at the Bar by the Ballast and time for a hot mug of coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and perhaps a <light> or <traditional> breakfast.
Mets won! Mets swept the Cards! Mets are awesome (doooooods)! <grin>
Many THANX to all who contributed so well to the Tuesday Theme for the Day - Pennsylvania RR and the "spill over" into Wednesday.
Next week it's the NEW YORK CENTRAL with Manager Lars expected to "kick it off."
Lars at 8:57 AM yesterday: As things turned out, you "saved the morning" with that wonderful combined Encore! from last May. Some fine Pennsy "stuff," featuring those great looking GG1s and so on. Many thanx!
Yeah, those nasty boys from New Yawk did it to my Red Birds twice again. <groan> That's a sweep! Its gonna be a looooooooooong grind ‘til the end. Gotta hand it to the Mets, as they've really looked sharp and up to the task. Too bad with this inter-league stuff going on that we won't be playing the New York guys any more than the 4 in your place this June. So we face perhaps the best team in the NL only 7 times out of 162. Hmmmmmm.
Come to think of it, the last time I was at Shea Stadium was in 1988 for a game against the Cards . . . time flies. <grin>
We'll surely miss your presence tomorrow, but such is life. Thanx again for the GG1 ‘n Broadway Ltd ‘stuff'!!
CM3 at 9:22 AM yesterday: Love the "Here by dragons" reference - brings back some memories at the "chart table." <grin>
Yes, we had quite a bit of Pennsy material not only on Tuesday, but yesterday too. Really takes a couple of days to do justice to "The standard railroad of the world," eh
‘tween you ‘n Wolfman, the "eagle eye" really shows! I enjoy finding those added details you always seem to find in the Pix that are Posted. Adds to the flavor of it all, fer sure, fer sure!
Back in the 1940s, we used to travel to Baltimore ‘n WashDC quite often by train. Most times it was aboard the PRR, but the B&O was also used as well. Caught the train in Elizabeth ‘n Newark, NJ a few times, but mainly embarked from Penn Station in "the city." I always enjoyed the tunnel over to "Joisey" and coming up "high" on the landscape into a curve that if sitting on the left side of the train, one could see the Manhattan skyscrapers quite well. So much more locked in memory - but much has already been shared over on the original Thread. Nice to think about those times . . . .
Thanx as always for the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Pete at 4:34 PM yesterday: Good to see the Bar Chandler make a late afternoon appearance, as we surely can use the "help" at this time of day. A quality offering from the Wolfman as always, capped off with a terrific "original" in the form of a Brit Fallen Flag - part I. Great job, looking forward to part II!
I know how much those RR memories of yours in Rugby mean to you. CHANGE really isn't always for the better, eh I think "they" call it PROGRESS when rails, ties and roadbed disappear into the pages of history. But oh, there's a PRICE to pay later on down the line, eh Youbetcha.
Ya know with this crazy Amtrak sked, I could come to see you and spend pretty much the day, returning on the late afternoon train. Hmmmmmmm.
Thanx for the Post ‘n visit!
Doug at 5:03 PM yesterday: Kinda surprise visit from the barn weevil, but appreciated!
I'd say your Post "qualifies" for Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! - an OPTIONAL Wednesday "thing" here at the Saloon by the Siding!
We're experiencing some strange weather events here in east central MO as the temps are going to be below freezing for the next few mornings. To think that just the day before yesterday we were at 83 (F) is a bit difficult to comprehend. Fortunately, other than some torrential downpours, we were spared any of the severe stuff usually accompanying the arrival of those kinds of fronts.
A/C ‘n furnace replacement is high on the "list" of things to take care of ‘round here too. Figger it best to get at it BEFORE they become problems. One good thing though, is this should be the very LAST time I'll have to spring for the replacement funding. I'll be "gone" for the next one . . . <grin>
Appreciate the Post, round ‘n visit!
James at 7:54 PM ‘n 8:04 PM yesterday: All that hard work clearing snow must've put you in the "mood" for some "keyboarding." A fine, fine inclusive ‘n informative Post - something we all appreciate ‘round this joint.
Great observation regarding the GG1 pantograph, by the by . . .
One of the reasons this bar is on the "Classic Trains" Forum as opposed to "Trains" is that there's soooooooo much more to talk about. Just think about the "stuff"
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, hot bricks, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We have had a close to 50 degree drop in temperature since Tuesday and, guess what - it's snowing here this morning with a temp of about 25 degrees and a good NE wind.
Pete - The K4 was removed from Horseshoe awhile back and replaced with a geep. Many thanks for the post on the Great Central.
Barndad - Grant Locomotive Works? Excellent! Also liked the steam fan.
The GN electrification piece was interesting; The construction shot gives an idea of how large those beasts were. The comment regarding smoke abatement in tunnels was similar to what the B&M did with their electrification through Hoosac.
Herewith some more on GN electrics.
GN 5018 was a class W-1 locomotive on the GN's roster. She was built in 1947 and retired in 1956. Four years later 5018 was sold to the UP and r/b as the center unit (UP 80B) of the coal turbine unit UP 80. It was r/n UP 8080B in 1964, retired four years later, and scrapped the same year.
Now for some GN/Pennsy-related material. Great Northern 5012-5017 were class Y-1 electrics built by Alco-GE. 5012-5012 were built in 1928 and 5014-5017 in 1930. They were all sold to the P Company in August 1956 and r/n PRR 2-7. Pennsy got a few more years out of them before they were scrapped. PRR 4 was the first to go (1960), followed by PRR 2 in 1962; the remainder were cut up in 1966. These locomotives were a bit peculiar as they ran with both pans "up."
James - Thanks for the information on the DL109s; I remember them on the New Haven when I was a pup. Some of them were pretty ratty looking by then, but they did have the distinctive Alco sound and the nose design made them look taller than they were.
Eric stopped by with comments
OSP - Do we have to talk about the Cards? Today we get to see if the Red Sox' massive investment will be helpful. ESPN is showing Sox vs. Texas on Sunday. I'll be in front of the TV for that. I can relate to what you said about disappearing logos.
TWA was a player in Boston and New York, of course. We had a family friend who flew for them, Constellations, yet, between New York and Rome; a long haul. I remember when my maternal grandmother made a visit back to the old country in the early 50's; she had planned to visit before then, but The Great War, raising a family, and another war intervened. Anyway, she took the Mauretania from New York to Southampton' and flew back (TWA on a Connie) as follows: London, Shannon, Gander (I believe), and Boston. Her remark, upon landing, was "Never go boating with anyone but the British, and never aviate with anyone but the Americans." She truly was a piece of work.
Have a good one - I'll try and stop by tomorrow, but the day looks to be pretty full already.
Now arriving on track #1 ..... Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Twelve
Initially Posted on Page 287 of the original Thread
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. Great Northern Railway (GN) Locale: Chicago, Illinois, to Seattle, Washington Reporting marks: GN Dates of operation: - 1970 Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge) Headquarters: St. Paul, Minnesota
A Great Northern EMD F7 Locomotive. (copied per terms of GNU Free Documentation License) The Great Northern Railway (AAR reporting mark GN), running from St. Paul, Minnesota to Seattle, Washington - more than 1,700 miles (2,736 km) - was the privately-financed creation of the 19th century railroad tycoon James J. Hill. It crossed the Mississippi River on the Stone Arch Bridge in Minneapolis, near the Saint Anthony Falls, the only waterfall on the Mississippi. The bridge ceased to be used as a railroad bridge in 1978 and is now used as a pedestrian river crossing with excellent views of the falls and of the lock system used to grant barges access up the river past the falls. The GN developed from the St. Paul and Pacific Railroad. In 1970 the GN became part of the Burlington Northern Railroad in a merger; today, Amtrak's Empire Builder uses the line.
A Great Northern train pauses for the photographer four miles west of Minot, North Dakota in 1914. (copied from public domain) Empire Builder
This train inspired the popular Empire Builder board game and computer version.
Second No. 2, the Empire Builder glides through Summit, Montana on August 5, 1938. (copied per fair use clause of copyright laws)
"Drumhead" logos such as these often adorned the ends of observation cars on the Empire Builder. (copied per fair use clause of copyright laws) The Empire Builder is a passenger train route operated by Amtrak in the Midwestern and Northwestern United States. Before Amtrak, the Empire Builder was operated by the Great Northern Railway. The route runs from Chicago, Illinois toward the Pacific Ocean. The line splits in Spokane, Washington, terminating at Seattle, Washington's King Street Station (2,206 miles, or 3,550 km from Chicago) in the north and Portland, Oregon's Union Station (2,257 miles, or 3,632 km from Chicago) in the south. The train passes through the states of Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. Layovers are made in St. Paul, Minot, and Spokane. Other major stops on the route are Milwaukee, Fargo, Whitefish, Montana, and Vancouver, Washington. One train passes in each direction on a daily basis. The schedule is timed so that the train will pass through the Rocky Mountains at a time of day that has prime viewing conditions. When trains run on schedule, it takes 45 to 46 hours to travel the entire route. The Chicago-Seattle route is 2,206 miles (3,550 km), and the Chicago-Portland route is 2,257 miles (3,632 km). History
Great Northern's Empire Builder passes through Winona Junction, Wisconsin in June, 1958. The cars bear the eye-popping Omaha Orange, Pullman Green, and gold stripe livery (known as the "Empire Builder scheme") that was the standard for GN passenger trains for 20 years. (courtesy: www.trainweb.com) The original Empire Builder was inaugurated by the Great Northern on June 11, 1929. The service was altered to carry additional passengers during World War II. After the war, new diesel trains were placed into service. This postwar service began on February 23, 1947. The route was publicized for allowing riders to view the passing Rocky Mountain landscapes through domed windows on top of the passenger cars. Ultimately, the name comes from the nickname given to railroad tycoon James J. Hill, who built track passing through Minneapolis-St. Paul in the late 19th century and founded the Great Northern Railway. Since inauguration, the service has run from Chicago to Spokane, then split from Spokane, continuing to Seattle and Portland. Historical equipment used The train's 1947 consist was as follows:
Great Northern's Empire Builder stops in Havre, Montana in 1967, shortly after the road modernized its color scheme and logo, introducing the "Big Sky Blue" era (passenger equipment begins to receive the blue, gray and white paint scheme, replacing the traditional EB livery). (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)
Pint of bitter please (Harvey's if possible)
Just a note to say how much good stuff there was on the PRR day - a lot to learn, a l;to to enjoy.
Thought people migth want some picture links to the locomotives pete and I were discussing - classic diesels UK style:
http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/d800m_in.htm
http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/d600m_in.htm
Interesting, because this mentions that one of them escaped cutting until 1980 and was nearly preserved, a shame that did not happen.
Class 14
http://www.nvr.org.uk/istg/d9520.php
And some more diesel hydraulic pictures here
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/diesels/photoofthemonth/frame.htm
Anyway - enjoy the Easter break folks
Regards
DL
A pint of Bathams please Ruth .
I will post the final part on the GCR while I have a read of the posts since yesterday.
A British Fallen Flag. The Great Central( London Extension) Part 2
At the BIG 4 grouping in 1923 the GC became part of the London & North Eastern Railway, the Midland and the L&NWR were part of the LMS.
With Nationalization of British Railways in 1948 not a lot changed,with the GC being part of what now was the Eastern Region of BR. One great innovation was the introduction of what became known as the Windcutters, which were fast freights, hauled by the 9F 2-10-0 freight locos. These locos were on fast schedules between Nottingham and Woodford.
It was in 1958 that the GC was transferred to the London Midland region and I'm afraid it was downhill from there. First the express passenger trains were withdrawn then many of the cross-country trains disappeared until all that was left was a semi-fast London Nottingham service and one cross-country train the York to Poole. The end of the London Extension came on September 6th 1966 with a small service between Rugby and Nottingham lasting a couple of more years.
In the early days the GC was served by some handsome and good engines designed by J.G. Robinson. In LNER days there was even Gresleys A1(later A3) pacifics on the line, Flying Scotsman was allocated to Leicester Central Shed for a time. In BR days the ex LNER V2 2-6-2s and B1 4-6-0s gave way to LMS types. Some Royal Scot class locos, which had been displaced by diesels elsewhere, were allocated to Leicester. These locos were very run down but Leicester shed got them back into good condition and they did fine work. From what I read, as soon as the LM authorities heard of this they had the good Scots transferred away and sent another batch of rough engines to Leicester, which broke the moral. Old rivalries die hard indeed.
One train in my youth that was well worth seeing on the GC, was the Grimbsy Fish train this was hauled by one of Immingham's Britannia Pacifics with names like Boadicea, Robin Hood or Hereward The Wake.
Probably the best place to see the trains in Rugby was at the Girder Bridge where the GC crossed over the LMS, but I shall never forget being on Rugby Central station's island platform as a Windcutter came through with a 9F hauling a rake of 16 ton unbraked mineral wagons at unbelievable speed. How do you describe this when someone asks, "What do you see in steam trains?"
PRESERVATION
Fortunately a part of the GC main line as been saved. It is the stretch from Loughborough and the site of Belgrave & Birstal station to a new terminus station named Leicester North. About 2/3rds of the line is now back to double track. There are 3 of the original stations two being of the type that served smaller towns and a larger version that served Loughborough, all are of the island type. The station at Rothley is lit by gas lamps and it is a great Edwardian atmosphere to be there on a cold winter night with the steam loco wreathed in steam. There is also a fairly large museum at the preserved Quainton Road station,a few miles north of Aylesbury.The site is in two halves with the old GC/MET line passing through the station still seeing some use as a freight only line
The locos of the GC were not as lucky with only 2 of the railway being saved. Although there are some of the GC locos that served in the war that found their way to Australia.
One loco was a Robinson Director 4-4-0 # 506 BUTLER HENDERSON it ran for at time at Loughborough and is now in the National Railway Museum at York.
The other is a 2-8-0 freight loco also part of the national collection. This loco was part of the Steam Railway magazine appeal to restore her and now she can be seen at work at Loughbourgh. Another appeal from the same mag, which caught the imagination, was some of the 16-ton mineral wagons were found at a motor manufacturer works after they were long gone on BR. The money raised bought a good rake of these and paid towards there upkeep. Having donated some money I was invited the first outing with these wagons and was there again when a 9F loco was returned to steam at Loughborough and hauled the wagons, apart from the loco being in immaculate condition it was like going back years.
In the 70s a wonderful photographic book titled Main Line Lament by Colin Walker was published which featured the London extension. The cover photo was of a bare trackbed looking towards Catesby Tunnel taken on a moonlit midnight.
I will be back later.
Another Batham's and some Fish 'N' Chips for please RUTH
DOUG Many thanks for those wonderful photos from the Sanfilippo Estate. I am sure you will get some answers on some of those really great models from the regulars.
In the 3rd pic it is a Bedford lorry hauling, as we call them, a low-loader, with a traction engine in the bed I am not too up on traction engines. I have a friend in England who if I told him the NH 550 registration number visible on the traction engine he could tell me the make and whereabouts of the could the traction engine, usually from memory. I have a feeling the traction engine was made by John Fowler, but I cold be well wrong. I was looking for a photo of a Bedford Lorry (Truck) similar to the model but I found this preserved example of an earlier Bedford when it was in use for British Railways.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1356710744044442179IzbYRo
Many thanks for the Great Northern W1 electric post. I am intrigued the two-wire three-phase system first used. I notice that more of the electric locomotives in the US had two cabs; where as most of the diesels are of the single cab design.
Interesting that had one time UP had the largest steam diesel and electric locomotives although the electric loco was no longer working as an electric.
Really looking forward to the next set of photos from your visit.
Thanks for the joke and the kind words on the GC.
JAMES Glad the snow as stopped up there.
It is interesting to see how high the pantographs of those electrics could reach. On part of the Great Central line that was electrified on the 1,500 volt D.C. system between Manchester and Sheffield, over the Pennine hills, there is an area around a town called Pennistone where for some reason the electric wires were very high and the height of the pantographs was very unusual.
Glad you enjoyed the Great Central, there is Part 2 today. In some ways I think it was a bit like the Milwaukee Road as it was the last main to reach London and had considerate opposition, like when the Milwaukee was trying last to reach the West Coast. Both lines had an electrified part of the lines.
Many thanks for the very interesting post and links on the DL9s. The third window in the cab front was a distinctive feature. Units # 14 A and B must have been good locomotives clocking 3 million miles in 12 years. I guess that there were no DL9s saved for a museum.
ERIC. I have found this link on the ‘Berne Gauge'. I did not know before I read this that the Swedish and Norwegian cars cannot run on other European lines. http://www.crowsnest.co.uk/gauge.htm
It seems strange that the link says that the name Berne Gauge was introduced in 1913 yet the GCR was open in 1899.perhaps it referred to the 1891 French gauge.
There are some good photos of old Bedford trucks in the link I put in the reply to Doug.
Liked the photo of you and the X2000 at Penn Station.
CM3 Glad you liked the GC post. Many thanks for the details on the GN electrics and with a PRR connection and you saw the DL 9s working.
What a wonderful story with your Grandmother. The Mauritania's hooter finished up on top of the power house roof of the factory I worked at in Rugby, along with a smaller hooter. They were used to signal start times in the morning and at lunch time, in the morning the hooter was sounded 15 minutes before the start time. The Mauritania hooter was usually sounded on special occasions as it used a fair bit of steam, when it was sounded it was said it could be heard, if the wind was right, in Coventry 12 miles away.
The hooters were sounded at the exact time and at one point it was one of my fathers duties to sound the hooter. Te power house has gone now and I do not know what happened the ships hooter.
DL Yes the PRR day was a great theme day, and for us not so familiar with North American railways a great amount of knowledge.
Many thanks for the links to the Warships. I had not realized D601 had lasted until 1980 before being cut up, it surely deserved saving if only as am example of a North British diesel design. The Western were, I think, the most handsome design of BR diesels. I read recently where they were credited in reviving interest in BR by railfans after steam finished.
Great info on the class14s and some great photos of the diesel hydraulics. Loved the pic of the name plates at the NRM.
I hope you like my posts on the GCR; there is a book I mention at the end worth a look at if you come across it
A pint of Harvey's does sound good especially in the bar at the Bluebell Railway.
Have an Enjoyable Easter break.
TOM Many thanks for the Great Northern and Empire Builder railroad from Yesteryear
"Orangutans are skeptical of changes in their cages." (Simon & Garfunkel)
Zoo Interlock
http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Images/zoo1961.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa1400/pa1447/photos/140433pv.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_prr1361.jpg
Milwaukee Road DL-109 #14 Deerfield, Ill., June 22, 1946
http://photoswest.org/photos/00005126/00005224.jpg
New Haven DL-109
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=200406050712584021.jpg
Gondolen
http://www.maruschka.net/fotky/2005-12-stockholm/gondolen.jpg
http://www.smudo.org/blog/archives/images/lomo-b06-500.jpg
King Street Station Seattle
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/g/GNempbldginternkingst950.jpg.20435.jpg
Catesby Tunnel
http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/table.php?searchitem=%25catesby%25&mtv=L1&pnum=1
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lner/catesbytunnel.htm
Tunnel unknown, seems to resemble Catesby
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/3/37324.0355.JPG.36893.jpg
Hoosac Tunnel B&M Massachusetts
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/b/BM_1748.jpg.66830.jpg
Hermosa Tunnel UP Wyoming
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/026_26_2.jpg.20222.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/003.jpg.70352.jpg
Tunnel #3 Altamont Pass, WP California
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/w/WP_804D_at_Tunnel_3_March_70.jpg.60571.jpg
Tacoma Public Library photo captions:
On February 3, 1927, T.F. McGettigan, left, test engineer, and his helper E.R. "Red" Randolph, in doorway, pose with the great electric locomotive #5007 that they accompanied from Pittsburgh to Tacoma. The locomotive was constructed for the Great Northern Railroad by Baldwin Locomotive Works and Westinghouse Electric Co. working together. On completion, it was hitched to a through freight train, destination Everett, Wa. Although the engine was not working, it still needed care during the trip and McGettigan and Randolph were assigned that task. Freight trains make few stops and do not usually carry passengers, so the pair packed a ham and 13 dozen eggs and set up a small stove on the engine. They slept on planks suspended over the machinery and endured temperatures of 40 degrees below zero when crossing the Rockies. The behemoth locomotive was on display in Tacoma on February 2 and then proceeded on to Portland, then Everett, where it was placed into service.
http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.org/images2/1/t4/31285.jpg
Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railroad locomotive class EP3, advertised as the largest and most powerful electric powered locomotive. The banner on the side of the train promotes the partnership of C.M. & St. P. railroad and Westinghouse Electric in the "World's mightiest, high-speed passenger locomotive, in service on new roller bearing 'Olympians' on the World's longest electrified railroad." The women leaning out of the windows wearing corsages are beauties from the Broadway Theater review on loan to the railroad which was shooting photographs for a brochure. The car was a new Chrysler Imperial 80 sedan loaned by the American Automobile Association to transport the girls. The new Olympian was the most modern and luxurious transcontinental transportation around. It ran on roller bearings, eliminating lurching jerks on stopping and starting. The Milwaukee Road electrified transcontinental railroad ran from Tacoma & Seattle to Chicago, over 660 miles and across four mountain ranges.
http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.org/images2/31/t4/30721.jpg
Tacoma Union Station
http://www.tacomascene.com/railroading/1942_c_union_station_tacoma_pic.jpg
Mike
Leon, I'll have an early breakfast, coffee and a Cheese Danish!
Back to normal time! I saw that a good portion of the country is back to coooold weather. Brrrr! We had 93°F today!
Doug – I am looking forward to see your pictures on Saturday!!Ahh, W-1, one of my favorites!! Very interesting locomotives and powerful. What I find most interesting is that they had a motor-generator that drove the traction motors instead of a main transformer with necessary equipment. Considering the 12 traction motors generated only 5,000 hp the traction effort, 180,000 lbs, was very impressive. All thanks to the weight. Sweden had and still has two classes, Dm3 and IORE, with a starting tractive effort of 211,320 and 303,750 pounds respectively.
Class Dm3, 211,320 pounds of T.E.Tom – Yeah, I was in a hurry to go to bed last night, that’s why I stopped by before midnight.In 1992 my wife and I flew from the old country to Chicago. She flew TWA and I was just behind flying AA. I think it was American who bought TWA, right? My GG1 model is pure PRR, nothing else. I understand your reaction completely! I miss Southern Pacific down here in Phoenix, but my wife is happy. She grow up close to UP in Nebraska. Thanks for the GN article! The Empire Builder started running in 1929 and is still running, 78 years later! I actually traveled exactly the same rout woith the X2000 from Chicago to Portland. CM3 – Too bad PRR didn’t buy any W-1! Thanks for the GN info! DL – I checked the info on Class 42 and 43 and found some strange numbers. Did the fuel tank really hold only 270 gallons? That does not sound right to me. D600 held 800 gallons. Thanks for the links!Pete – “What do you see in steam-trains?” I guess first and foremost the steam locomotive that I (as a kid) was extremely fascinated of. A huge machine with a number of wheels bigger than myself and hissing steam everywhere. A lot of noise and steam when it started. It was in my eyes unimaginable that someone (the engineer) could control such a beast with moving parts everywhere and still look relaxed haning out through the window. No wonder I decided to become an engineer! Thank you for part 2! In a way life was better in the old times! But today is not bad!So I was right! It was a Bedford tractor (sorry, lorry)! Bedord trucks were kind of common in Sweden in the 50’s. That is why I recognized it!That is correct, passenger cars in Sweden and Norway are wider than in the rest of Europe. Direct cars from Stockholm to e.g. Berlin have always been German made cars of the same type as in Germany. The Swedish State Railways actually had quite a few freight cars that ran between Sweden and Great Britain in the 60’s and 70’s. They were not as wide as the regular freight cars. X2000 was too wide for a number of tracks at Penn Station and was not allowed to run on those tracks (track 14 was one of them). The platforms were too close to the track. Mike – Wow, some very good links! To my surprise I even found two pictures of Gondolen, a restaurant in Stockholm, to which you take an elevator. I have been there a number of times.Also two nice pictures of the Zoo Interlocking in Philadelphia! Thank you!
Good morning Tom and friends. A light breakfast please on this cold and windy morning. Can't wait to get my air conditioning installed now! Glad ya'll liked the GN piece. Thanks to CM3 for supplementing the info and Tom for supported the theme with Wikepedia stuff. No need to save stuff like that over here, I have a plethora of material on just about anything. Trouble is knowing where to find it! I just hope ya'll find these random posts of some interest. Great to see DL and the second part of Peters GC article. We're fortunate to have someone who has seen the line operated do the storytelling for us. Appreciate the reference to supporting reading material as well. Didn't reallt expect anyone to research the toy pix from the Sanfilippo Estate, but glad to see it happen anyway. Thanks! More great URLs from Mike, as usual, and Eric provided more W-1 information too.
Here's the first part of a traction piece, which may or may not smoke out Rob for some comments:
Boston's Narrow Gauge Electrics by Charles A. Brown
To those who knew it best, it was just "The Narrow Gauge", although its full corporate name was the Boston Revere Brach & Lynn RR (BRB&L). Note that there was no expressed ambition to go beyond those bounds, no "and Western" or "and Pacific". Until the little line quit in January, 1940, it served well the intended communities of Boston's near North Shore, providing convenient connections with downtown Boston by ferry from the East Boston railhead. Built in 1875 as a narrow-gauge steam road, the line prospered for many years under conservative New England management. As a steam road, the BRB&L rostered a fleet of Mason-bogie locomotives from such distinguished New England locomotive builders as mason, Taunton, Manchester and Hickley, with an outlander Porter thrown in for good measure. As was the case of many railroads built in the latter part of the nineteenth century, the Narrow Gauge was part and parcel of a real estate promotion. This combination worked well, and the line was responsible for the settling of much seashore land in its territory: Orient Heights, Beachmont, Winthrop, Revere Beach, and Point of Pines.
Patronage backbone was commuter traffic into Boston. The road's ferry terminal at Rowes Wharf was convenient to the financial district and to the Rowes Wharf station of the Atlantic Avenue rapid transit elevated line. Surface cars, and later buses, of the Boston Elevated Railway coming from City Point (South Boston) terminate at the Narrow Gauge station. These connections with the greater Boston transit network brought bonus traffic to the Narrow Gauge in the form of throngs of pleasure seekers in summer, looking for relief from the heat and oppression of city life in the days before air conditioning. Revere Beach boasted as many as five roller coaster rides at one time, plus the other attractions of a major amusement park. For less adventurous souls, there was (and still is) sandy Crescent Beach.
Rowes Wharf station of the Narrow Gauge was handy to the covered stairs serving the elevated station of the same name. In this 1940 photo, the Atlantic Avenue elevated line is closed, a factor that worked to dry up much of the Narrow Gauge traffic.
An early proposal to electrify the Narrow Gauge was made in 1911 by the New Haven Railroad, to follow the pattern of the road's Nantucket Beach electrification completed in 1895. Nothing came of this proposal, however, and the Narrow Gauge continued to plod along with its ancient Mason-bogie steamers hauling 19th century Laconia open-platform coaches.
Lower quadrant semaphore signals protect much of the Narrow Gauge, with some three color signals at strategic points. Revere, 10/15/39
In 1927 the line changed hands, losing its conservative New England management and falling into the hands of New York investors headed by the engineering firm of Hemphill & Wells, who forthwith declared that the line would become an electrical railroad. By the end of 1928, the promised electrification was complete. Gone were all but one Mason-bogie locomotives. No. 14 was retained until 1940 to heat the road's shops at Orient Heights. The fleet of Laconia open-platform coaches was converted to electric propulsion, complete with trolley poles, multiple-unit equipment, and one motor truck supplied by Wason; the trailing truck was still the original MCB unit. The General Electric Co., of on-line Lynn, became the supplier of overhead catenary, power equipment, and the control and traction equipment on the ancient rolling stock.
All dressed up with somewhere to go, coach 64 is ready to tour the main line with the carload of hobbyists. 10/15/39
Unfortunately, changing times brought this efficient little railroad to a quick demise only eleven years after its electrification. During the late 19th century and well into the early 20th, the line had but little competition, from the nearly parallel line of standard-gauge Eastern RR (later the Boston & Maine). In 1904 a streetcar tunnel was built between Scollay Square Boston and Maverick Square East Boston, eliminating the ferry trip for those wishing to ride the trolleys of the Boston Elevated Railway under the harbor. This took a bite out of Narrow Gauge traffic, despite the second fare and change of cars necessary to reach Revere Beach from Boston. In 1936, the Boston Elevated acquired the Chelsea Division of the Eastern Mass. St. Railway. This move eliminated the second fare when riding the trolleys between Boston and Revere Beach, taking another bite out of Narrow Gauge traffic. In the meantime, the American love affair with the automobile had brought about the building of the Sumner Tunnel, enabling motorists to drive under Boston Harbor to Narrow Gauge communities. Another bite out of the hide of the Narrow Gauge. Economies of the 30's included the acquisition of four one-man cars for late night service. These cars were semi-convertible types of the 4300 series, from the Eastern Mass. St. Railway, and were rarely seen on the line in daylight. It took a special trip in October, 1939 to bring this class out for a spin on the Winthrop branch, much to the delight of railroad hobbyists.
A rare 4-car train on the Winthrop branch passes the storage yard at Orient Heights
By the end of the ‘30s. It was apparent that the railroad could no longer flourish in the modern world. The year 1937 had seen the line enter bankruptcy, from which it never recovered. The death blow came in 1938, when the Boston Elevated Railway discontinued its Atlantic Avenue elevated service, depriving the Narrow Gauge of its Rowes Wharf rapid transit connection. Despite community pressure, especially from Winthrop, the railroad gave up on January 27, 1940.
On one of the many trestles on the Winthrop branch, ca 200 pauses for photos. The drawbridge in the background is so delicately balanced that it is raised and lowered by one man and a hand crank
Ferry service between Rowes Wharf and the East Boston rail terminal was provided by double-end side-wheel ferry boats with such New England names as "Brewster", "Ashburnham", "Newton", "Dartmo
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