Marginal cost of operating an autonomous car from factory to 'point of acceptance' is not only lower than the cost by electric truck net of infrastructure expenses ... it is likely lower than the pro rata cost to finance and maintain it.
And the cars are just as likely to gang-drive to a railhead and park themselves if going somewhere in sufficient masse to warrant crrier: precisely the same logic applies to shorter-run or distributed destination as you're using for truck vs. legacy rail. It's like the Rotterdam example but without the need for trucks at all; the cars can even run in full cocoon except for sensors.
Pre-discounted for the extra miles run, if that is a concern. The Carvana approach is probably best for last-mile, because the truck is one-on-one (and should nicely adjust to an Amazon-style BEV or hybrid-electric chassis) if keeping odometers low is important. But that's different from 'commodity' long-distance car carriers, or specialty providers like Horseless Carriage for which rail couldn't be a practical option in the first place.
Yeah, I can just see customers complaining when their self delivered "new" car shows up with 2000 miles on the odometer.
Backshop Yeah, I can just see customers complaining when their self delivered "new" car shows up with 2000 miles on the odometer.
Tell them it's pre-broken-in at no extra charge.
But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles?
Maybe if Amazon sells them they could be delivered by drone.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
What I don't understand is all the people who supposedly don't have the time to go and buy a new car. If you can't take a few hours to make your second biggest purchase, you either have screwed up priorities or are working way too many hours.
Broke in at 2000 miles.. no big deal.
Backshop What I don't understand is all the people who supposedly don't have the time to go and buy a new car. If you can't take a few hours to make your second biggest purchase, you either have screwed up priorities or are working way too many hours.
They have the time but would prefer to do other things with it. I don't want to hang out at a car dealership... would much rather sleep in or pursue a hobby.
Paul of Covington Backshop Yeah, I can just see customers complaining when their self delivered "new" car shows up with 2000 miles on the odometer. Tell them it's pre-broken-in at no extra charge. But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles? Maybe if Amazon sells them they could be delivered by drone.
If they can drive themselves then surely they can refuel themselves too..
BackshopWhat I don't understand is all the people who supposedly don't have the time to go and buy a new car. If you can't take a few hours to make your second biggest purchase, you either have screwed up priorities or are working way too many hours.
Or the car buying process sucks. And if you know what you want - why bother with the hassle?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Paul of Covington But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles?
Lots of places don't fill the tanks when you buy a car anymore.
zugmann Paul of Covington But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles? Lots of places don't fill the tanks when you buy a car anymore.
Don't think I ever got a full tank in any of the cars I have bought for over 50 years.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Ulrich Paul of Covington Backshop Yeah, I can just see customers complaining when their self delivered "new" car shows up with 2000 miles on the odometer. Tell them it's pre-broken-in at no extra charge. But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles? Maybe if Amazon sells them they could be delivered by drone. If they can drive themselves then surely they can refuel themselves too..
Amazon drones will deliver them! And if you are Prime member the shipping is free.
BaltACDDon't think I ever got a full tank in any of the cars I have bought for over 50 years.
I did once in a used truck - but that was an old-school dealer.
zugmann Backshop What I don't understand is all the people who supposedly don't have the time to go and buy a new car. If you can't take a few hours to make your second biggest purchase, you either have screwed up priorities or are working way too many hours. Or the car buying process sucks. And if you know what you want - why bother with the hassle?
BackshopIt takes me less than an hour to buy a car.
Nowadays you can do a lot of research before you get to the dealer.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Backshop It takes me less than an hour to buy a car. Nowadays you can do a lot of research before you get to the dealer.
Backshop It takes me less than an hour to buy a car.
I have 'thought' I knew what I wanted - however, once I put my ass in the seat and put the vehicle through its paces my mind was changed, it was time to move on and devise another selection.
BaltACD zugmann Paul of Covington But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles? Lots of places don't fill the tanks when you buy a car anymore. Don't think I ever got a full tank in any of the cars I have bought for over 50 years.
I bought a new Toyota two years ago and was very surprised to find that it had a full tank. (First time ever!)
Paul of Covington BaltACD zugmann Paul of Covington But who refuels them when the trip is over about 300 miles? Lots of places don't fill the tanks when you buy a car anymore. Don't think I ever got a full tank in any of the cars I have bought for over 50 years. I bought a new Toyota two years ago and was very surprised to find that it had a full tank. (First time ever!)
Interesting. Have bought six new and one used vehicles over the years and every one had a full tank of gas when I picked it up. Maybe its a regional thing.
I've purchased nine new cars of several marques over the years in several states, and all had full fuel tanks.
Always full on mine in the Detroit area.
I read that a lot of salespeople will fill the new cars up on their dime - esp for older buyers, just because they'll never hear the end of it if they don't.
My used truck had brand new tires - so I was happy with that.
zugmann I read that a lot of salespeople will fill the new cars up on their dime - esp for older buyers, just because they'll never hear the end of it if they don't. My used truck had brand new tires - so I was happy with that.
BaltACDI have 'thought' I knew what I wanted - however, once I put my ass in the seat and put the vehicle through its paces my mind was changed, it was time to move on and devise another selection.
Always true - trial and error. But it looked good on paper!
I'm kind of late to this and I'm throwing stuff out there. So:
Some years back Swift was using 53' RoadRailers to deliver BMW's, 3 to a trailer. The revenue was high enough to only deliver 3 per. BMW as
Self driving cars could potentially drive themselves around vehicle distribution centres. Right onto the car carrier. And as an added bonus could also drive themselves to the dealer from the factory.
Carhaulers with sleeper cabs. There are many out there. Peterbilt IIRC sells them right out of the factory.
So when we have self driving cars there will be a car pulling out of SIA onto Indiana 38 every 30 seconds or so and taking itself somewhere? That doesn't sound too great. And what about plants with much higher output? I can't really see self driving cars changing delivery that much. Maybe in urban areas cars might be able to be dispatched from dealers to customers but even that seems unlikely, and I don't think I will live to see the day that a self driving vehicle will be able to get to my home far back off a gravel road.
There will be evolution in how cars and parts are moved, but rail will be a part of that for a long time.
PR
narig01 I'm kind of late to this and I'm throwing stuff out there. So: Some years back Swift was using 53' RoadRailers to deliver BMW's, 3 to a trailer. The revenue was high enough to only deliver 3 per. BMW as Self driving cars could potentially drive themselves around vehicle distribution centres. Right onto the car carrier. And as an added bonus could also drive themselves to the dealer from the factory. Carhaulers with sleeper cabs. There are many out there. Peterbilt IIRC sells them right out of the factory.
A few points---Swift is the laughingstock of the trucking industry. Do a Youtube search using "Swift accidents". They have barely trained drivers.
There are "some" sleeper cab trucks--not many. Peterbilt is a premium brand so aren't owned by a lot of trucking companies. The sleeper and long hood cut down on capacity.
Backshop1. I'm not "older" and 2. that just the way it's always been around here.
"older" is subjective.
Some new cars used to have "full tank of gas" listed on their window sticker. Don't know how many do anymore.
RKFarmsSo when we have self driving cars there will be a car pulling out of SIA onto Indiana 38 every 30 seconds or so and taking itself somewhere?
Remember that most of this is not only hypothetical, it is in the spirit (and making the assumptions) of the original troll.
These cars will do short-headway drafting (what 'platooning' is for trucks) and hence traffic will move in the traffic-light cycle or ramp exit of the plant or storage lot(s) concerned. I don't really expect mass moves will be necessary except at new-model or promotion time, and I sincerely doubt traffic on 38 is extreme in the wee hours of the morning when 'dispatch happens'. Loading to bulk carrier, whether truck or rail, can happen asynchronously, too, with the vehicles not necessarily going direct in large numbers to staging points from which they more conveniently JIT converge for quick loading and securement.
What about plants with much higher output?[/quote]Presumably by the time you get to that point the economics for shuttle, and probably block rail, are effective even if the plant is not designed with close or direct rail access. I don't see development of autonomous cars ramping up that quickly until the current 'crossover' and other alternative to sedan craze is over... does Musk's electric Hummer even fit in a regular autorack?
Maybe in urban areas cars might be able to be dispatched from dealers to customers but even that seems unlikely..
... and I don't think I will live to see the day that a self driving vehicle will be able to get to my home far back off a gravel road.
Remember, only the first half of the autorack-replacement scenario involved the familiar-by-now electric drive. Autonomous control is the "game-changer" and you don't need a sleeper... in fact, you don't need any projection in front of the trailer bays at all... for an autonomous tractor, whether electric or hybrid. Heck, even Kneiling put his little gas turbines under the floor...
Backshop narig01 I'm kind of late to this and I'm throwing stuff out there. So: Some years back Swift was using 53' RoadRailers to deliver BMW's, 3 to a trailer. The revenue was high enough to only deliver 3 per. BMW as Self driving cars could potentially drive themselves around vehicle distribution centres. Right onto the car carrier. And as an added bonus could also drive themselves to the dealer from the factory. Carhaulers with sleeper cabs. There are many out there. Peterbilt IIRC sells them right out of the factory. A few points---Swift is the laughingstock of the trucking industry. Do a Youtube search using "Swift accidents". They have barely trained drivers. There are "some" sleeper cab trucks--not many. Peterbilt is a premium brand so aren't owned by a lot of trucking companies. The sleeper and long hood cut down on capacity.
Swift has a better than average safety rating..check it out for yourself at the FMCSA website, safersys. They run 16000 trucks and 20000 drivers.. given those numbers they're bound to have some youtube hits. To a large extent, Swift, Werner, and a few others have become the de facto training schools of the industry..
A bit late on this, but the 86' box did not go away because of the truck. Trucks gain is due to 'JUST IN TIME' delivery. Auto makers require suppliers to locate 'Next Door' now. Even Flint, Mi plants but trucks didn't get that. Metal Fab. plant stamps the parts and puts them on overhead conveyer that moves them to the metal prep plant then moves them to the paint plant before moving to the final assy plant, (crew cab GM pickups). Before that, box cars moved the body panels with in the several hundred acre complex, they even moved the V8 engines to the assembly plant and the were next to each other. When GM dumped what is now the Tesla calif. plant, the daily auto parts train from Flint to Calif. stopped and so did the 86' box which was created primarily for that business. As long as we import autos there will be auto racks. Sorry if I'm repeating what some of what you have already posted.
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