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Goodbye to autoracks?

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:42 AM

Oh, and hello everyone, stuck using satellite for internet. Not on here much.

, if it thinks it might possibly rain maybe sometime sort-a, I have no internet. Positive side I can spend he time trackside in Elkhart or Granger or South Bend.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:45 AM

BOB WITHORN
stuck using satellite for internet.

Can't be much worse than AT&T U-verse on a criPhone or Chromebook.

At least on the Forums it only takes a couple of minutes dodging attack ads to edit a typo when you see one.

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:48 AM

Only if I can get Trains to except my login, boy is that a project.

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:53 AM

Maybe they can dredge the Welland canal so Detroit can direct load/unload the auto ships? Only need to maybe triple the size of the locks and dredge the Detroit River, raise the bridges, etc. then they won't need auto racks.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:58 AM

BOB WITHORN
Only if I can get Trains to except my login, boy is that a project.

Specifically what problem do you have?  Are you required to use some weirdly-kludged or proprietary browser that does cookie support weirdly?

 

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:04 AM

Overmod

 

 
BOB WITHORN
Only if I can get Trains to except my login, boy is that a project.

 

Specifically what problem do you have?  Are you required to use some weirdly-kludged or proprietary browser that does cookie support weirdly?

 

 

 

 

A couple/few weeks ago, trains.com changed the Web site in some way and a lot of us were having trouble logging in.

You can contact trains.com for support, but what they told me at the time was to delete browsing history.  You can figure out from doing a Web search on whatever kind of browser -- Edge, Chrome, Safari, Firefox -- you are using.  Unfortunately, you may lose the shortcut to type in a couple letters and bring up your other Web sites you usually visit.  That is, until you revisit those sites and it gets entered in the system.

I tried deleting browser history, and that didn't work for me either at the time, but if finally worked when the changes at trains.com finally settled down.  So deleting at least some if not your whole browser history should bring you back.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:41 AM

Hughes Net. Works ok but is a bit slow and if clouds arrive they block the signal. They are currently installing cable on our gravel road that only has 2 homes in a half mile. A bit rural. I changed my password but it rejects it yet today I tried my old one and got in to the NEWS but got booted when I clicked on the Forum. Re-entered the new one and double clicked and got in. So, I'll try again later after I get the 5 acres of green stuff mowed and see how it goes.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:57 AM

Kalmbach IT - enemy of the Trains forum.

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Posted by Gramp on Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:32 AM

There's a new auto transfer distribution site being built at New Richmond, WI, east of the Twin Cities, along the CN line there. Quite a commitment to the use of autoracks. 

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 2:50 PM

How do you teleport grain? Minerals? Propane?

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 6:23 PM

Gramp

There's a new auto transfer distribution site being built at New Richmond, WI, east of the Twin Cities, along the CN line there. Quite a commitment to the use of autoracks. 

 

 

CN is also expanding its autoramp in Flint, MI at GM’s Bus Truck plant. Yet according to OP autoracks will be gone because of Tesla....

Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Juniata Man on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 6:56 PM

azrail

How do you teleport grain? Minerals? Propane?

 

 

If the Musk fanboys are to be believed, Elon can do anything.  (Insert sarcasm emoticon here.)

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Posted by Bruce D Gillings on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 7:18 PM
And it seems there continues to be oversimplification of what the OP said: 
 
As Tesla sets the trend and others follow, it is likely that the mighty auto rack could fall into obscurity, just as the 86' boxcar already has.

What do you think? Will railroads still participate in fulfilling the transport needs of the auto industry in the future?
 
 Trends are what are being discussed.  And as noted earlier, railroading has gone from being the transportation method of choice to losing out entirely or partially to OTR. Those EMP and JB Hunt containers at DCs and manufacturing plants are relatively small compared to OTR truck trailers. 
 
No one is suggesting, or implying, it is all great now but it will fall off the cliff and disappear next year or two years from now.  Regardless of Elon Musk’s quirkiness, he is setting some standards and trends that are being repeated across multiple industries. The long-term erosion of rail traffic continues. What will happen, unless the industry makes major changes in service, transparency, information integration, and ease of doing business will be the steady decline in users. Along the way of decline, of course there will be wins here and there. Hell, some railroads might even get an award for excellence in Rail Logistics, beating out the mediocrity of the 6 other primary rail carriers. That’s how things generally work.
 
 
Moving vehicles will become more service sensitive than it already is: to ignore that is to ignore the history of supply chains for the past, oh, 100 years or so. Give or take a few years since paved roads became common. A history that has accelerated in the past decade, to an unimaginable level in the past 5 years.
 
I still love the post about: Toyota Logistics Services awarding CSX the President's Award for Rail Logistics Excellence. When we see a consistent series of awards to railroads – note that I said consistent – for Transportation Logistics Excellence, competing with truckers head-to-head, then we’ll know the industry is evolving into what it needs to survive into the future beyond bulk land barges.  Until then, market share and relevance will continue to shrink.
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Posted by wasd on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 8:55 PM

Check this out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/i1ojo8/tesla_train_fire_in_north_platte_ne/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

So much for Tesla not using rail. They destroyed an autorack though.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 9:06 PM

wasd

Toasty!

Lithium Ion battery technology has yet to be FULLY MASTERED to be fully safe - even when the appropriate precautions have been taken.  Therein it is somewhat like the railroads using welded rail - its about 99.998% safe, however, for welded rail - extreme weather happens, both hot and cold.  I don't have the answers or even the questions about what make Litium Ion batterie fail with disaterous consequences.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:53 PM

BaltACD
I don't have the answers or even the questions about what make Lithium Ion batterie fail with disaterous consequences.

If you have LI batteries and you're flying, they have to be in your carry-on.  And they aren't real fond of spares...

All high voltage batteries in cars are marked, so we don't cut the wrong ones...

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 11:12 PM

tree68
 
BaltACD
I don't have the answers or even the questions about what make Lithium Ion batterie fail with disaterous consequences. 

If you have LI batteries and you're flying, they have to be in your carry-on.  And they aren't real fond of spares...

All high voltage batteries in cars are marked, so we don't cut the wrong ones...

And all the phones that are carried on planes all have Lithium Ion batteries.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:57 AM

BaltACD
Lithium Ion battery technology has yet to be FULLY MASTERED to be fully safe - even when the appropriate precautions have been taken.

Think about this for about 2 seconds.  We're striving for power density comparable to gasoline.  Using chemistry that reacts dramatically and pyrophorically with water, with thinner and thinner packaging and internal insulation, with runaway heating the result of even small internal overvoltage or mechanical damage... including excessive current draw into shorts.

I don't have the answers or even the questions about what make Lithium Ion batteries fail with disastrous consequences.

It is not hard to find them.  There are even YouTube videos for the explosion-porn devotees... some of them masquerading as 'science experiments' of course, just like gratuitous carnivorous death or vicious internal parasites are presented as 'scientific'...Surprise

The wonder to me is that batteries built to a price and assembled by depressed Foxconn wage slaves have so little track record in halting and catching fire. 

I am tempted to be snarky and say that if Tesla built cars like Fisker Karmas, they could ship them with the traction battery isolated and run them on and off the transporters with the sustained engine -- and charge them close to the actual 'point of purchase'.  Still wouldn't preclude a chemical fire if someone shoots it, of course, but you don't get that accelerated thermal runaway from the charged aspect of the chemistry...

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:52 AM

tree68

 

 
BaltACD
I don't have the answers or even the questions about what make Lithium Ion batterie fail with disaterous consequences.

 

If you have LI batteries and you're flying, they have to be in your carry-on.  And they aren't real fond of spares...

All high voltage batteries in cars are marked, so we don't cut the wrong ones...

 

 

As long as said battery is in your device,  it's fine.  A spare must be in your carry-on. 

https://petapixel.com/2018/05/16/tsa-battery-restrictions-clearing-up-confusion-on-flying-with-lithium-ion/

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 12:02 PM

charlie hebdo
As long as said battery is in your device,  it's fine.  A spare must be in your carry-on. 

Yep.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:50 PM

Bruce D Gillings
 
 
I still love the post about: Toyota Logistics Services awarding CSX the President's Award for Rail Logistics Excellence. 

 

 

You shouldn't.  If Toyota was truly unhappy with the railroad's services, they could have simply skipped giving out an award that year.  Its seems that they are not unhappy.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by JPS1 on Saturday, August 8, 2020 7:07 PM

I was at my favorite train watching spot today when a southbound BNSF auto rack train went by.  The auto racks were empty.  I believe the trains was headed to Mexico.  It appeared to be the same train that I saw about five days ago headed north.

When an auto rack train is loaded or unloaded, do they need to uncouple all the cars?  Or can they drive the autos through the cars from one end to another to get from or to the last car in the string? 

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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, August 8, 2020 7:25 PM

They just open up the end doors, lower the ramps and drive straight through multiple cars.

Another thing ignored here is the injury rate among carhauler drivers.  I know at least 2 that retired due to on-job injuries.  The next time that you see a car hauler at a dealership, watch how hazardous it is to enter cars and drive them off the upper level.  If they do all the transporation of new vehicles, just think of the increase in injuries due to the greater number of trucks.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 8, 2020 7:28 PM

JPS1
I was at my favorite train watching spot today when a southbound BNSF auto rack train went by.  The auto racks were empty.  I believe the trains was headed to Mexico.  It appeared to be the same train that I saw about five days ago headed north.

When an auto rack train is loaded or unloaded, do they need to uncouple all the cars?  Or can they drive the autos through the cars from one end to another to get from or to the last car in the string? 

The end doors get opened and bridge plates are put in place to allow the gap between railcars to be negotiated by vehicles which can drive through the railcars.

At loading and unloading locations the track lengths are normally 10 cars or less in length.  Vehicles are driven on in the forward direction and also driven off in the forward direction.  

Unloading locations have multiple moveable ramp appratus that can be moved where necessary to permit the unloading of vehicles from any deck of a bi or tri level rack.

Crews spotting up the unloading locations switch railcars so that groups of railcars have their vehicles facing in the same direction and also to have tri-levels together in a cut and bi-levels together in a cut.  Depending upon how many different loading locations output end up at a particular unloading location - there can be a whole lot of switching involved in setting the ramp up for unloading.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, August 8, 2020 11:22 PM

 

BaltACD

Crews spotting up the unloading locations switch railcars so that groups of railcars have their vehicles facing in the same direction and also to have tri-levels together in a cut and bi-levels together in a cut.  Depending upon how many different loading locations output end up at a particular unloading location - there can be a whole lot of switching involved in setting the ramp up for unloading.

You can also split cuts of cars that are in the same track and put the ramp in between them if needed. 

Extra handbrakes are required on autoracks when they are spotted in the loading or unloading facilities, to eliminate slack-related movement, which could happen either from the air brakes leaking off or due to vibration from the vehicles driving through the railcars.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, August 9, 2020 10:08 AM

The drivers of the autos have to watch their speed, too.  I can remember when the first loading ramp was built behind the South Shore embankment in Hegewisch, we could periodically hear reminders over the PA to slow down to about 5 MPH.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, August 9, 2020 1:04 PM

JPS1
I was at my favorite train watching spot today when a southbound BNSF auto rack train went by.  The auto racks were empty.  I believe the trains was headed to Mexico.  It appeared to be the same train that I saw about five days ago headed north. When an auto rack train is loaded or unloaded, do they need to uncouple all the cars?  Or can they drive the autos through the cars from one end to another to get from or to the last car in the string? 

There is a huge auto transload facility here in Dallas on the Texas Eagle route just East of Dallas.    Combo auto transload and intermodal container facility for UP.   Have to hand it to UP they are not shy about consumming large tracts of land that facility has to be a few square miles minimum.     In Wisconsin there is one near the former 7-mile Fair location and I think it belongs to UP as well (former C&NW)    Massive lot of cars and a few feeder tracks for the autoracks.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 9, 2020 3:12 PM

CMStPnP
 
JPS1
I was at my favorite train watching spot today when a southbound BNSF auto rack train went by.  The auto racks were empty.  I believe the trains was headed to Mexico.  It appeared to be the same train that I saw about five days ago headed north. When an auto rack train is loaded or unloaded, do they need to uncouple all the cars?  Or can they drive the autos through the cars from one end to another to get from or to the last car in the string?  

There is a huge auto transload facility here in Dallas on the Texas Eagle route just East of Dallas.    Combo auto transload and intermodal container facility for UP.   Have to hand it to UP they are not shy about consumming large tracts of land that facility has to be a few square miles minimum.     In Wisconsin there is one near the former 7-mile Fair location and I think it belongs to UP as well (former C&NW)    Massive lot of cars and a few feeder tracks for the autoracks.

I have no real idea of how much land area the CSX auto facilities at Twin Oaks, PA and Jessup, MD occupy - what I do know is that the trains that serice those facilities give them 90 loaded rail cars a day and needless to say release the same number of rail cars empty on a daily basis.  With 10 to 18 vehicles per rail car, that is a whole lot of vehicles.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, August 9, 2020 6:31 PM

BaltACD
I have no real idea of how much land area the CSX auto facilities at Twin Oaks, PA and Jessup, MD occupy - what I do know is that the trains that serice those facilities give them 90 loaded rail cars a day and needless to say release the same number of rail cars empty on a daily basis.  With 10 to 18 vehicles per rail car, that is a whole lot of vehicles. 

You know I am surprised after transporting them in enclosed autocarriers they then store them in lots open to the weather outdoors at the transload facility subject to hail and all sorts of weather.    You would think it would be more land use efficient to build a large sheltered parking garage but probably also very much more expensive.

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Posted by Bruce D Gillings on Sunday, August 9, 2020 6:35 PM

CMStPnP

 

 
JPS1
I was at my favorite train watching spot today when a southbound BNSF auto rack train went by.  The auto racks were empty.  I believe the trains was headed to Mexico.  It appeared to be the same train that I saw about five days ago headed north. When an auto rack train is loaded or unloaded, do they need to uncouple all the cars?  Or can they drive the autos through the cars from one end to another to get from or to the last car in the string? 

 

There is a huge auto transload facility here in Dallas on the Texas Eagle route just East of Dallas.    Combo auto transload and intermodal container facility for UP.   Have to hand it to UP they are not shy about consumming large tracts of land that facility has to be a few square miles minimum.     In Wisconsin there is one near the former 7-mile Fair location and I think it belongs to UP as well (former C&NW)    Massive lot of cars and a few feeder tracks for the autoracks.

 

 

Mesquite is approximately 0.45 square miles total for IM and Vehicles (+/- 288 acres).  The IM is almost all domestic (most international goes through Dallas Intermodal Terminal in Wilmer). 

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