Euclid Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I read the Canadian press reports because I was interested in the story.
Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
I read the Canadian press reports because I was interested in the story.
The French-Canadian papers in French? Feel certain they have a different point of view on all Canadian issues.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Little known fact that only us Canukleheads know: If you spot Wayne Gretzky in a Tim Hortons, walk up to him and say "Hey everyone it's Wayne Gretzy!" , you win a free 2 day all inclusive to the nations capital.
So get out your Google boys and find out!
SD70Dude Deggesty Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later. You mean across the Rideau Canal, on top of the hill above the Ottawa River? That's our Parliament buildings. The Chateau Laurier was built by the Grand Trunk Railway, and was the pride of CN Hotels for many years. It is across the street from the old Ottawa Union Station, and CP's line to the Alexandra Bridge and their north shore lines ran underneath the hotel.
Deggesty Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later.
Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later.
You mean across the Rideau Canal, on top of the hill above the Ottawa River? That's our Parliament buildings.
The Chateau Laurier was built by the Grand Trunk Railway, and was the pride of CN Hotels for many years.
It is across the street from the old Ottawa Union Station, and CP's line to the Alexandra Bridge and their north shore lines ran underneath the hotel.
I regret that I did not get to Ottawa in time to walk from the station to the hotel--as we did in Toronto. (Halifax is even better; just walk through the waiting room; in Montreal, you have to take an elevator to the hotel).
Johnny
I see that Italy reported almost 800 coronavirus-related deaths and 6,557 new cases occurring yesterday.
Flintlock76Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else
Aside from the question of what the Canadian government offered in the deal to end the protests, who in the government actually created the offer? Might this have been collaboration between say 250 government representatives? Or is it more likely to have been the work of say 4 people?
It seems to me that the rationale for keeping it secret is the same rationale as not wanting to enforce the law against blocking trains because that would be portrayed as violence against the Wet’suwet’en.
Since what Miningman and Euclid actually know only what is published in the English-language Canadian press (not the French), and the tentative agreement is secret, their knowledge is not anything more than any of us could acquire by reading the same public sources. The rest of the Euclidian material is only his personal speculation.
charlie hebdo Since what Miningman and Euclid actually know only what is published in the English-language Canadian press (not the French), and the tentative agreement is secret, their knowledge is not anything more than any of us could acquire by reading the same public sources. The rest of the Euclidian material is only his personal speculation.
You are talking utter nonsense. Do I or others have to go back to your analysis that made statements and later saying the important part was actually a secret?
charlie hebdo You are talking utter nonsense. Do I or others have to go back to your analysis that made statements and later saying the important part was actually a secret?
I clearly described the context of that important secret part. I have not changed my view to be inconsistant about the secret part, as you keep insisting. You keep saying that it is a falacy for me to mention the secret because knowing the secret would be impossible because it is secret.
There are two parts:
1) The knowledge that a secret agreement was offered.
2) The knowledge of contents of the secret agreement.
Item #1 was widely reported in Canadian news. I said it was.
Item #2 has not been reported in the news. I never said it was.
So where is this inconsistency that you keep referring to?
Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers.
They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes.
The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games!
In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
MiningmanIn the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
We get two Canadian stations on our cable feed. One (Kingston) can still be had over the air, I believe, but the other (Ottawa) used a translator to reach this area and it may not be running any more.
I can almost literally see the tower for the Kingston station from my house - it is located on one of the Thousand Islands...
I haven't used a signal off the air in years.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Convicted One Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else
LOL!! Julius Caesar said it 2000 years ago, "The people gladly believe what they wish to."
EuclidItem #1 was widely reported in Canadian news. I said it was. Item #2 has not been reported in the news. I never said it was. So where is this inconsistency that you keep referring to?
The part where you draw "conclusions" -- expressed in the language and semantics of firm,settled conclusions and not 'opinions' (which imho is the word you should use in all these cases) -- that either refer to the substance of what is 'secret' or speculate ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on th actual nature of what is secret.
Meanwhile, we have the weeks-long process of trustbuilding between the grand royal entourages of modern-day potentates and the Wet'suwet'en characterized as something that should be openly filmed, like some wedding from Hell, and then endlessly exposed and commented on and praised/disparaged by everyone who has an anus or an opinion. I'm certainly not going to dictate to Canadians even what they 'should' or 'shouldn't'. They elect the democracy they deserve, even when it is highly discriminatory to Vince and the people who are his students, and it's theirs to fix the systems or details that are (or have become, or are now recognized as) inferior or improper in a fair society. If there is a role for observing First Nations customs and preferences on First Nations land in connection with First Nations matters -- and that role involves 'exclusive relationships' outside the peering eye of a free press -- that's not the same thing as a conscious Yillian Way sort of exploiting and laughing at dead-white-man diplomacy and overpriced government political correctness.
Would I prefer to see the text of any agreement made 'in Canada's name' as a rank-and-file Canadian? I sure would -- it's one of the tenets of Western representative non-star-chamber democracy. Do I think there are codicils made by the Wet'suwet'en that prevent revealing aspects of a sweetheart deal, or a sticking-it to 'white normal Canadians'? -- not really; how could there be? it'll come out sooner rather than later in the things the government subsequently does ... or when some new administration comes in after periodic elections. I wouldn't be surprised to see 'true reveal' being an election promise... perhaps a compelling one... in the next set of elections.
I would also state -- not quite tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely seriously either -- that the cavalier rubber state-security attitudes that led more or less directly to cancellation of the Arrow and scrapping of its tooling and technology is probably still chronic in Canada, and that leaking even large parts of this 'secret combination' will not take particularly long, or be met with particularly efficaceous savage reprisal or indignant rebuttal. Time usually heals secrecy.
Miningman Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers. They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes. The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games! In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
Thanks Miningman,
I like your characterization, "Uber woke anointed ones." My thought in asking about the number of people invovled in the deal was to wonder how any group larger than maybe 3-5 could possibly keep the deal secret.
selector Convicted One Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else LOL!! Julius Caesar said it 2000 years ago, "The people gladly believe what they wish to."
Overmod: Thank you for the explanation of the difficulties in Euclid's post. Unfortunately, he probably will not acknowledge the difference between conclusions and (speculative) opinions.
Overmod... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on th actual nature of what is secret.
Not if the people making the agreement are predictable.
Euclid Miningman Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers. They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes. The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games! In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border. Thanks Miningman, I like your characterization, "Uber woke anointed ones." My thought in asking about the number of people invovled in the deal was to wonder how any group larger than maybe 3-5 could possibly keep the deal secret.
They can't. Not for long. The bigger the pool of people privy to the secret the harder it is to keep a lid on it.
Remember what good ol' Ben Franklin said...
"Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead!"
Flintlock76They can't. Not for long. The bigger the pool of people privy to the secret the harder it is to keep a lid on it. Remember what good ol' Ben Franklin said... "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead!"
Ah! The thousands that 'staged' the Moon Landing on a sound stage.
Euclid Overmod ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on the actual nature of what is secret. Not if the people making the agreement are predictable.
Overmod ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on the actual nature of what is secret.
This is an interesting point, because if I understand you correctly you think that by 'predictably modeling' their thought and decision process you can approximate -- perhaps in some detail and with some precision -- what the 'secret' areas of discussion and agreement are.
The problem is that it's still conjecture until externally confirmed, or until independently affirmed in other ways. I have no doubts that the 'truth' will eventually be winkled out, but until then it is intellectually dangerous to proceed from your own model or perception of Canadian-political behavior to hard 'conclusions' in the usual sense of that word. Let alone defend such conclusions as if fully reasoned or self-evidently valid -- that is more the method of a crank than a scientist.
As usual, you write sound advice.
Overmod Euclid Overmod ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on the actual nature of what is secret. Not if the people making the agreement are predictable. This is an interesting point, because if I understand you correctly you think that by 'predictably modeling' their thought and decision process you can approximate -- perhaps in some detail and with some precision -- what the 'secret' areas of discussion and agreement are. The problem is that it's still conjecture until externally confirmed, or until independently affirmed in other ways. I have no doubts that the 'truth' will eventually be winkled out, but until then it is intellectually dangerous to proceed from your own model or perception of Canadian-political behavior to hard 'conclusions' in the usual sense of that word. Let alone defend such conclusions as if fully reasoned or self-evidently valid -- that is more the method of a crank than a scientist.
Be glad that there has been a settlement.
Overmod,
What you refer to as my hard conclusions are easily changed, so I don’t regard them as being “hard conclusions.” But if public officials make decisions in secret from their constituency, people will jump to conclusions. That is their right.
It is silly to think that such a technical protocol for conclusions, opinions, and settled science should prevail on this forum. I don’t hear anyone worry about that when it comes to the conspiracy theory that the capitalists have introduced PSR to loot the railroad industry. That goes on day and night here as though it were etched in granite.
I suspect that at least half the people in Canada agree with my ideas on this. There have been news articles in Canada concluding exactly what I have said here, and they go much further. They even predict that the protests will soon return once the Wet’suwet’en have digested the offer from Trudeau and raised their demand. Blockades are cheap. They can go up as easily as they come down.
I say that if politicians don’t want people jumping to conclusions, they should level with their constituency rather than planning action in secret as though they have a superior intellect that their people will not grasp.
WATCH THIS VIDEO:
Dwight Newman, Canada Research Chair in Indigenous Rights at the University of Saskatchewan, talks to the Financial Post’s Larysa Harapyn about the ongoing Coastal GasLink protests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=248&v=mGp0vMbexOg&feature=emb_logo
READ THIS ARTICLE:
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/joe-oliver-trudeaus-panicky-give-away-to-hereditary-chiefs-creates-more-chaos-and-confusion
Great analysis! But as before, Mr. Euclid will never admit to the error of his ways, as seen again above.
EuclidI say that if politicians don’t want people jumping to conclusions, they should level with their constituency rather than planning action in secret as though they have a superior intellect that their people will not grasp.
It's really not all that rare for the terms of a settlement to be kept confidential. It could be as simple as wishing to not motivate copy-cat actions.
Euclid writes -- " It is silly to think that such a technical protocol for conclusions, opinions, and settled science should prevail on this forum. I don’t hear anyone worry about that when it comes to the conspiracy theory that the capitalists have introduced PSR to loot the railroad industry. That goes on day and night here as though it were etched in granite. "
Well stated! That and quite a few other items as well.
Joe Oliver's column is really frightening at its true meaning. The overturning of the Magna and the Glorious Revolution of 1688 that ended the divine right of Kings in the UK.
The central tenet of our system of government will not apply to how Indegenous people's govern their affairs.
The numerous Native bands in British Columbia lay claim to virtually the entire province. It is entirely possible that one day the people of BC wake up to find they do not own the land their homes and business's are on. Oh and by the way, owe half a million in back rent each, or ordered to vacant in x number of days.
One thing we do know is that the Trudeau government has agreed to and is guided right from the start by the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. That is a radical and scary document in itself. It destroys Western Democracy.
It is a one sided deal that hereditary Chief Woos ( real name Frank Alec) trumpeted as a milestone. Still no info, no transparency, just Chief Woos elation.
Americans should take note and watch closely because it could become a template for your own many Indigenous peoples with the full support of the usual bunch, students, radicals, Antifa, Hollywood, all that.
Your extreme, politically-motivated hunches devoid of citations may or may not be correct, but you seem to want to use fear to continue to withhold from the native people the fair treatment that has been due them for many years.
You stated as a fact that the deal is one-sided, yet the deal is still a secret. So how can you say that? Pure speculation.
Well, the GOOD NEWS is, with the blockades gone, we have successfully concluded this matter as it pertains to railroading. What more have we any right to expect?
Miningman Euclid writes -- " It is silly to think that such a technical protocol for conclusions, opinions, and settled science should prevail on this forum. I don’t hear anyone worry about that when it comes to the conspiracy theory that the capitalists have introduced PSR to loot the railroad industry. That goes on day and night here as though it were etched in granite. " Well stated! That and quite a few other items as well. Joe Oliver's column is really frightening at its true meaning. The overturning of the Magna and the Glorious Revolution of 1688 that ended the divine right of Kings in the UK. The central tenet of our system of government will not apply to how Indegenous people's govern their affairs. The numerous Native bands in British Columbia lay claim to virtually the entire province. It is entirely possible that one day the people of BC wake up to find they do not own the land their homes and business's are on. Oh and by the way, owe half a million in back rent each, or ordered to vacant in x number of days. One thing we do know is that the Trudeau government has agreed to and is guided right from the start by the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. That is a radical and scary document in itself. It destroys Western Democracy. It is a one sided deal that hereditary Chief Woos ( real name Frank Alec) trumpeted as a milestone. Still no info, no transparency, just Chief Woos elation. Americans should take note and watch closely because it could become a template for your own many Indigenous peoples with the full support of the usual bunch, students, radicals, Antifa, Hollywood, all that.
Ok Boomer.
(sorry Vince, I couldn't resist)
I'm going to wait until the actual details of the agreement become public before judging it.
I try not to believe conspiracy theories, or comment much on their merits/demerits.
If we wanted to avoid the current debacle that Crown-Native relations have become, perhaps we should have treated the Natives as actual people over the past 150 years. And negotiated Treaties with those in what is now British Columbia, which, ironically, seems to be what is happening right now.
As for the theory that Hunter Harrison's version of PSR looted railroads, his management theories resulted in the destruction and disposal of company assets like track and locomotives and increased long-term corporate debt while shareholders and executives were enriched. All while employees and customers paid the price in higher freight rates, poor service, and drastically worsened working conditions.
Sounds like looting to me.
P.S: IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT PIPELINE CONSTRUCTION HAS RESUMED ON COASTAL GASLINK AND IS CONTINUING ON THE TRANS MOUNTAIN EXPANSION, AND PIPELINES/BLOCKADES HAVE FINALLY FALLEN FROM NATIONAL HEADLINES.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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