tree68The license plate marker stating "fire chief" probably isn't quite as effective.
I have a lot of respect for fire fighters. They put a lot on the line, most every day. And the public service they provide is hard to put a measured limit to.
And I often tell them so, when given the chance.
My standard line is to tell them " how much I appreciate everything they do for us, unlike those other badge wearing zealots"...usually get a chuckle.
Not long ago I had such a chance while I was finishing breakfast at Taco bell. He was a supervisor, driving his SUV alone,...had just got his seat.
And his response was a smiling "thank you, I'll be sure to tell that to my brother the police officer who should be joining me here in the next few minutes"
I think I brightened his day.
Yes, we get that here, too. There are some small towns here-Sulphur Springs(Ark) comes to mind, or Watts OK-where they have two or three fairly late model cars in the police department, for towns with only 500 or 600 residents, and no significant source of municipal revenue. I have come through Sulphur Springs late at night on numerous occasions to have the local cop follow me through town. I keep my speed right on the 35 MPH limit. A lot of times, the cop will ride so close on your bumper that if you sneeze, he'll hit you. They are relying on the driver they are following to make some error, or speed up, which will then occasion a traffic stop. It's a racket, and quite a few of these towns generate a lot of money this way. I've been driving 45 years. I know entrapment when I see it. Watts a few years ago got in trouble with the state for being a speed trap. In Oklahoma, if 50% of more of a town's revenue comes from traffic violations, the state can go after them by law, for being a speed trap. The percentage in Watts was 53%. Except for Bakery Feeds, a feed mill, and the KCS(now a main track, controlled siding, and a small yard, everything else is gone), Watts has basically no industrial/commercial tax base.
Another game they play in some circumstances is civil asset forfeiture, where assets are seized on the theory that they are used in, or proceeds of, criminal activity. No conviction is needed to make such a seizure. Getting your stuff back after it is seized is time consuming and expensive. Some states have outlawed it, but most have not, and the Feds use it routinely. I can go on with stats and stories, but the bottom line is, government should not be able to take someone's property on that basis without a criminal conviction. A lot of towns and counties gain significant revenue via this process. All of them should be charged under RICO statutes.
The ridiculous thing about the license plate light is that since all plates are reflectorized now, you really don't need it anyway, so, yeah harassment. It's awfully ironic how some police, who are sworn to uphold the rule of law, and the Constitution, will go to such measures to subvert it for whatever aim they deem desirable, either because of their own personal bias, or because someone in their hierarchy/governing body, has decided that revenue, or some other reason, is preferable to honest law enforcement.
The City of Baltimore is currently going through the aftermath of police corruption in a special team known as the 'Gun Trace Task Force' that was creating as much or more crime than the people they were arresting - planting fake evidence, siezure of assets and other outright criminal activities. A couple of years ago, one of their members died under 'mysterious' circumstance a day before he was scheduled to testify in a Grand Jury probe of 'police activity'.
https://www.capitalgazette.com/topic/crime-law-justice/law-enforcement/gun-trace-task-force-ORGOVV00038-topic.html
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It can work in the other direction, too. A few years ago, I forgot to turn on my headlights after pulling out of a service station. It's an easy mistake to make since the station is well lit and my dashboard lights are linked to the ignition switch. At any rate, I was pulled over about a half-mile down for driving without headlights and the officer just reminded me to turn on my lights. I thanked him and was able to go on my way.
.
Speed traps are a bit different from harassment: at least you know it's all about the money, and not a beating in the jail that night because the locals don't like your face. Interestingly enough the problem with speed trapping got so bad in California they've actually passed a law regulating the practice ... would that they'd do so here in Tennessee, where we have had a legislative backlash against another nominally lucrative practice, red-light cameras with artificially short yellows. There are three local towns that could use a little wrist-slapping: Germantown (where they love to sit at the bottom of steep hills for their strict enforcement); Oakland (where you better not sin a jot or a tittle going through) and Gallaway (a poor community "run" by the local equivalent of a slumlord whose tenants vote for him or else, which had quite a number of late-model high-powered interceptors with 'all the bells and whistles' out in the middle of nowhere ... I don't wonder why.) I'd like to see a model prosecution under RICO that could be applied to some of this stuff; it certainly only peripherally concerns 'traffic safety' (I know of at least two accidents that occurred when people were watching for the po-pos too carefully and let their wheels get a little ahead of their eyes as a result).
Note that this is different from the typical small town where the police are always sitting off the main drag with the radar/VASCAR running. They usually only come out when some massive offense occurs ... I say this having driven perhaps the ultimate 'target car' for the Deep South (a white Eldo convertible with buff New Jersey plates) extensively in southern states and never had a problem. Other than once, in Virginia, while (to get back on topic a bit) railfanning the Southern from public property -- the local constable was hostile until I mentioned I was driving back to have a drink with my friend the magistrate in Charlottesville, at which point all became smiles, as usual in Virginia at that time. (Meanwhile Virginia's speeding policy has been in the control of traffic-law attorneys for some time, unsurprisingly increasing no-tolerance strict 'surprise' enforcement and keeping statutory reckless driving tied to 25-over ... for our national 55mph speed limit. And of course radar detectors are illegal (unless modulated for communications, but be prepared to do some 'splainin') Don't know whether to cry or face-palm first ... but Virginians are evidently electing the democracy they deserve.)
Civil asset forfeiture is a scam, well-recognized as one, highly unlikely you'll see it changed 'til the revolution. The problem at the root is that there are too many groups that have large amounts of cash they won't 'go to court' to get back, some of which are worthwhile confiscating. What I don't think some of these jurisdictions realize is that the true criminals in these situations will be able to afford and employ the best lawyers to get release of these assets, whereas poor people who can't get bank accounts (and the like) get sheared without recourse in our current excuse for an adversarial system.
I'm glad thatt my only experience with Watts, Oklahoma, was riding through on the KCS 51 years ago, on my way from Nw Orleans to Kansas City.
Johnny
BaltACDThe City of Baltimore is currently going through the aftermath of police corruption in a special team known as the 'Gun Trace Task Force' that was creating as much or more crime than the people they were arresting - planting fake evidence, siezure of assets and other outright criminal activities.
Yeah, I heard about that...interesting for sure.
While I was living in Los Angeles, we used to employ off duty police officers for undercover security. My relationship with most of them was contentious, at best.
Hired one guy who had been in the LA Rampart division before coming to work for the PD in our sleepy suburb . He used to get really annoyed with my discussion about opportunistic police officers.
Then the LAPD Rampart Division scandal broke the news waves, and basically confirmed everything I had been ranting about. Even some of his off duty police co-horts started teasing him about how deeply he was involved, and who he was trying to protect. Emotionally he was in retreat mode for several months as each days news casts seemed to recount additional horrors.
The thing that brought the whole mess to the surface was when one officer checked out 6 LBS of seized cocaine from the evidence locker, and never returned it. I suspect that it was jelousy by his coworkers that caused it all to boil over.
CShaveRR Carl - I have to agree with my Ex-Con(rail) Friend Balt on this one, although I don't entirely agree with his way of qualifying the authority. Have a look at the manyu state laws quoted at www.therailroadpolice.com. Also I would suggest reviewing the latest Congressional stab at it as well. See 49 U.S.C. Section 28101. Railroad Officers Jurisdiction is often limited to railroad property, property in the care and custody of the railroad and passengers and personnel of the railroad. These limitations can make investigation off property a frustrating exercise and it is always best for railroad officers to create and maintain quality relationships with the public police. Rick Former Conrail and NS T&E employee (Licensed LE and FC) Former Municipal Police Officer Former Prosecutor Currently employed by RRs for at least 9 more years... BaltACD In many cases, RR Police have the same Police Powers as city, county and state police and they also have a 'police commission' from the states in which they operate. They are not 'mall security' - they are REAL police and in most case carry firearms. The 'eyes' of the RR Police, in addition to employees in performance of thier duties, includes civilians that live near the tracks and report situations they see. What Balt said, except for the "in many cases" part.Railroad police are real police, undergoing the same training and certification as municipal or state policemen would, and they have the power of the law behind them.Because of my unusual way of getting to work whle I was employed by the railroad (by bicycle), I was often questioned by the police. To their credit, though, it only happened once per officer. It was usually followed by pleasant conversation, often ending with "Be careful, okay?" Toward the end of my career I served on the same yard safety committee as the chief (who had a lot more than our yard as his jurisdiction).
Carl -
I have to agree with my Ex-Con(rail) Friend Balt on this one, although I don't entirely agree with his way of qualifying the authority. Have a look at the manyu state laws quoted at www.therailroadpolice.com. Also I would suggest reviewing the latest Congressional stab at it as well. See 49 U.S.C. Section 28101.
Railroad Officers Jurisdiction is often limited to railroad property, property in the care and custody of the railroad and passengers and personnel of the railroad. These limitations can make investigation off property a frustrating exercise and it is always best for railroad officers to create and maintain quality relationships with the public police.
Rick
Former Conrail and NS T&E employee (Licensed LE and FC)
Former Municipal Police Officer
Former Prosecutor
Currently employed by RRs for at least 9 more years...
BaltACD In many cases, RR Police have the same Police Powers as city, county and state police and they also have a 'police commission' from the states in which they operate. They are not 'mall security' - they are REAL police and in most case carry firearms. The 'eyes' of the RR Police, in addition to employees in performance of thier duties, includes civilians that live near the tracks and report situations they see.
The 'eyes' of the RR Police, in addition to employees in performance of thier duties, includes civilians that live near the tracks and report situations they see.
Tree - You should be aware that this is incorrect in most jurisdictions (States) including New York. I would suggest you review the following: NY Criminal Procedure (CPL) Section 1.20 (defining persons qualified as "Police Officers"), CPL Section 1.20(p) defines "Railroad Policemen" as Police Officers; Section 88 of the NY Railroad Law (RRD) sets forth the procedures for railroads to appoint police, CPL Section 34-a defines the "geographical area of employment" of police officers as the State of New York meaning that Police Officers in New York have statewide jurisdiction. That means an officer's jurisdiction no longer stops at the County, City or Village line in New York. Railroad Police and certain other police do have limitations including those contained in NY RRD Section 88 and 49 U.S.C. 28101
Juniata ManA Santa Fe buddy of mine in the past referred to railroad police as “cinder dicks”.
Deggesty Juniata Man A Santa Fe buddy of mine in the past referred to railroad police as “cinder dicks”. That's an expression that I had not seen a many years.
Juniata Man A Santa Fe buddy of mine in the past referred to railroad police as “cinder dicks”.
That's an expression that I had not seen a many years.
How quickly we forget!
http://www.depauvillefd.org/images/Cinder.htm
and all the wonderful people who shared conversations then that do not now.
Overmodhttp://www.depauvillefd.org/images/Cinder.htm
Fun read. Where did this come from? Tell me about the auther, please. Was it Ed?
Electroliner 1935 Where did this come from?
Marvelous thread by dharmon, written to parody a user back around 2004 who used 'many names', one of which was 'detective_cinderdick'. You can still see some of the posts from that era using that name in 'search the community'. But some of the names are no longer with us, and the best we can do is toast their memory at times of the year like this.
Electroliner 1935Where did this come from?
As I recall, it was "published" as something of a serial. I captured the entire series into one file. Forgot it was on the fire department website.
Pretty much anyone who was a forum regular at the time got mention somewhere in the tale.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
wilmette2210do Railroad employees have any nicknames for RR Police?
zardozYes, but none that can be published here.
Umm.. we call them "Officer Smith" or the like.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann zardoz Yes, but none that can be published here. Umm.. we call them "Officer Smith" or the like.
zardoz Yes, but none that can be published here.
So you've never refered to them as Gum Shoes or Cinder Dicks? How come my Metra Conductor buddies on the UP North Line refer to them Gum Shoes? Thanks
wilmette2210So you've never refered to them as Gum Shoes or Cinder Dicks?
Zug has a relative that works (or worked, it's been some time since we had the discussion) in law enforcement....so he's a little sensitive at times about how others feel about cops.
wilmette2210So you've never refered to them as Gum Shoes or Cinder Dicks? How come my Metra Conductor buddies on the UP North Line refer to them Gum Shoes? Thanks
No, I haven't. Never once. I don't know why your Metra conductor buddies do - local vernacular? Why do we call them cabin cars? Why do they refer to that monstrosity Chicago makes as "pizza"? (that last one is a joke)
Gumshoe (to me) sounds like something from a black and white detective movie. I know the terms gumshoe and cinderdick, but I've never heard them used in any sort of mixed company.
If we talk about the RRcops in a broader sense, we (locally, as in the places I've worked) refer to them as "RR cops","RR police", or "RR PD". Substitute your RR of choice in as appropriate.
Convicted One...so he's a little sensitive at times about how others feel about cops.
Really? I mean, given your user name and mutiple stories on this thread for starters? I'm the sensitive one? Heh. Whatever you say.
I'M the one with cop relatives, two uncles who were members of New York's Finest, and I mean no disrepect AT ALL to any others when I say New York City cops are the best in the world.
Besides, the mention that I had two uncles on the NYPD got me rejected for jury duty, twice. Too bad, one was a murder case, would have been interesting.
zugmann Really? I mean, given your user name and mutiple stories on this thread for starters? I'm the sensitive one? Heh. Whatever you say.
My user name has nothing to do with law or it's enforcement, I picked the name in response one former member here who blamed me for all kinds of outlandish stuff that I had no involvement in
I recall the exchange you and I had sometime back in which you expressed no small amount of disapproval of my opinion of cops, citing a relative of yours was in the business.... as if that was supposed to make a difference to me. Having been on that receiving end, I believe I am entitled to share that memory.
Flintlock76I'M the one with cop relatives, two uncles who were members of New York's Finest,
I appreciate your willingness to help comb out the knots. But in the instance I refer to, I'm fairly confident that particular exchange was NOT between you and I.
zugmann zardoz Yes, but none that can be published here.
zardoz
Yes, but none that can be published here.
Convicted One Flintlock76 I'M the one with cop relatives, two uncles who were members of New York's Finest, I appreciate your willingness to help comb out the knots. But in the instance I refer to, I'm fairly confident that particular exchange was NOT between you and I.
Flintlock76 I'M the one with cop relatives, two uncles who were members of New York's Finest,
You're right me old son. An altercation between the two of us is something you'd NEVER forget!
Flintlock76 something you'd NEVER forget!
Likely that I would appreciate that a little less.
Has any one on here ever seen a Railroad Police officer/special agent arrest someone? Thanks
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