Paul of Covington BaltACD My guess is not too many 'seat belt tickets' are given out by 'real' police as from my personal observations they are among the primary offenders. I have noticed that in news reports of accidents involving police officers, they frequently mention that they were not using seatbelts. One reason I've heard, though, is that they have so much gear hanging on their belts that it is extremely awkward to use them. Which reminds me, one state trooper where I used to work said they often get kidded about the way they walk, with their arms out, but they have to because of all the gear on their belts.
BaltACD My guess is not too many 'seat belt tickets' are given out by 'real' police as from my personal observations they are among the primary offenders.
I have noticed that in news reports of accidents involving police officers, they frequently mention that they were not using seatbelts. One reason I've heard, though, is that they have so much gear hanging on their belts that it is extremely awkward to use them. Which reminds me, one state trooper where I used to work said they often get kidded about the way they walk, with their arms out, but they have to because of all the gear on their belts.
Which only highlights that they need to revise their thinking about the gear they carry on their person and how they stow that gear on their person for their own safety when operating motor vehicles. Very few police walk beats any longer and very few are on mounted patrols on horseback.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDMy guess is not too many 'seat belt tickets' are given out by 'real' police as from my personal observations they are among the primary offenders.
I actually got a "stand alone" seat belt ticket from a city cop about 15 years ago...I was shocked. I suspect he thought I looked suspicious, and just used the seat belt as an excuse to come give me a shaking, just to see what falls out.
Normally, they seem to throw in the seat belt infraction as an add-on when they are pulling you over for moving violations.
The thing I've noticed most with cops, is that since my hair has turned grey, they mostly leave me alone....used to be they ALWAYS thought that I was a person of interest. Probably some form of profiling underneath all of that.
I'm starting to smell the recipe for a good sit-com under all of this.
Some well intentioned Barney Fife type railroad cop who is forever getting grief from his superiors for spending too much time with "community involvement" while the wolf is in the hen house back at the railroad.
"And so officer Fife, while you were arresting that kid who had a bong visible in the back window of his station wagon, three more box cars were burgled in your territory, please explain THAT?"
Precision Scheduled Railroad Policing anyone?
Deggesty56 or so years ago, I was in Hattiesburg when the northbound Southerner came in. As I was about to take a picture of the train, a well-dressed man queried me about my desire to take the picture. I did convince him that the picture was for my personal collection. Apparently, there had been some trouble there recently--or he was a new hire and wanted to exercise his authority?
In the 1970s Newark Penn Station very prominently posted signs saying 'no photography'. I asked one of the local cops patrolling the facility if I could photograph a couple of trains, and his answer was 'yes, of course' -- the reason for the ban was passenger privacy, there being instances of PIs taking candids in divorce cases, the example he quoted. As long as I was shooting locomotives, track, and trains in motion he had no concern.
I have come to appreciate the further concern by railroad employees that photography could be used to document, and doubtless enforce, any potential rules violation.
Convicted One BaltACD My guess is not too many 'seat belt tickets' are given out by 'real' police as from my personal observations they are among the primary offenders. I actually got a "stand alone" seat belt ticket from a city cop about 15 years ago...I was shocked. I suspect he thought I looked suspicious, and just used the seat belt as an excuse to come give me a shaking, just to see what falls out. Normally, they seem to throw in the seat belt infraction as an add-on when they are pulling you over for moving violations. The thing I've noticed most with cops, is that since my hair has turned grey, they mostly leave me alone....used to be they ALWAYS thought that I was a person of interest. Probably some form of profiling underneath all of that.
In certian states there can pull you over just for a seat belt violation, Glad Colorado is a seconday enforcement state.
denveroutlaws06 Convicted One BaltACD My guess is not too many 'seat belt tickets' are given out by 'real' police as from my personal observations they are among the primary offenders. I actually got a "stand alone" seat belt ticket from a city cop about 15 years ago...I was shocked. I suspect he thought I looked suspicious, and just used the seat belt as an excuse to come give me a shaking, just to see what falls out. Normally, they seem to throw in the seat belt infraction as an add-on when they are pulling you over for moving violations. The thing I've noticed most with cops, is that since my hair has turned grey, they mostly leave me alone....used to be they ALWAYS thought that I was a person of interest. Probably some form of profiling underneath all of that. In certian states there can pull you over just for a seat belt violation, Glad Colorado is a seconday enforcement state.
When I got my first car, my parents mandated that I get seat belts installed in it - AND USE THEM before I was allowed to drive it (1956 Plymouth 4 door sedan). Every car I have owned since - that did not come equipped with seat belts as standard equipment - I installed them. In 56 years of driving that also includes 31 years of on track sports car racing - I feel naked without belts - even if I am just going around the block - or from my paddock space to the fuel pumps when I am at the track.
BaltACDIn 56 years of driving that also includes 31 years of on track sports car racing - I feel naked without belts - even if I am just going around the block - or from my paddock space to the fuel pumps when I am at the track.
Balt, you reminded me of one of my favorite lines from the movie “The Odd Couple” where Oscar (Walter Matthau) is speaking of Felix: “I know him. He’s too cautious to kill himself. Wears his seat belt in a drive-in movie.”
Having been spared some unnecessary pain by seat belts, I too feel naked without one in use, although if there were still drive-ins around here (and they played anything I'd actually watch), I probably would unbuckle during the show.
..
ChuckCobleighHaving been spared some unnecessary pain by seat belts, I too feel naked without one in use ...
My first car, a handed-down 1962 Thunderbird convertible, had seat belts from the factory (as I recall sourced from an aircraft contractor) and I used them religiously. In part, this was because of a reminder, a tooth-shaped dent in the rim of the red swing-away steering-wheel rim, that those belts had kept my father from being projected off the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River a few years prior.
Yes, I wear them carefully, and yes, I advocate that everyone try to wear them even when inconvenienced. There are good reasons.
But no, I don't like the feel-good excuse of "safety" being used to establish seat-belt nonuse as a 'crime' allowing fishing expeditions and target-of-opportunity mandatory-appearance citations. To me that is right in line with $273 tickets for being in the handicap lane of a roadway paid for with public money. Positive incentives are good. Negative self-serving ones seldom if ever are preferable in a nominally free or good society.
My father worked at GM's Michigan Proving Grounds, so he had access to things like surplus seat belts. He installed some in our car, of course. I think it was the '63 Olds (a story in and of itself, but I digress).
He was also a reserve police officer. I had dropped him off at the police station one day, and as I pulled out onto the street I kicked it a bit - not enough to break the rear end loose, but enough to make me slide out of the drivers seat on the vinyl bench seat.
As I pulled myself back behind the wheel and stopped for a traffic light, I buckled up, and have done so ever since.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Overmod To me that is right in line with $273 tickets for being in the handicap lane of a roadway paid for with public money. Positive incentives are good. Negative self-serving ones seldom if ever are preferable in a nominally free or good society.
Story time?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
tree68 Overmod Its chief effect was to inoculate the railroads against any scheme of automated car identification, no matter how good it might have been, until well into the 1980s. And now it's all RFID and little gray bricks on the sides of the cars...
Overmod Its chief effect was to inoculate the railroads against any scheme of automated car identification, no matter how good it might have been, until well into the 1980s.
And now it's all RFID and little gray bricks on the sides of the cars...
An THAT almost didn't happen because of "who is going to pay for the private car tags". The RRs said, "You own'em. You pay." The car owners said, "we could give a flip about your AEI system. YOU pay." The tags were about $35 a pop and $10 for the weld on braket back then.
I think the winning argument was "no tag. no pull."
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I like others here use seatbelts routinely. Back in 1954, my older brother had me help him install seatbelts in our dad's 52 Ford and it became routine. Then in the early sixties, another Electrical Engineer I worked with was in an accident where he was westbound in the outside lane of a four lane highway on a rainy night and a lady going eastbound hit her brakes, locked her wheels, spun around into his lane. I was given the task to retrieve the companies equipment from the car. This was heavy tube type electronic test equipment like oscilloscopes, signal generators,etc. I was glad I saw him first as he had only broken his leg and had a bruised chest as a result of the accident. Then I saw the car. I could have drawn a straight line from the drivers side of the windshield to the passenger side right front tire with nothing in front of the line. The drivers seat back was up against the steering wheel. The instruments had flown off the back seat, hit the seat, and the seat belt had held him, the seats and the instruments. This reinforced my appreciation for them. When my kids were young, they learned that if they didn't buckle up, we were not going. As you can tell, I am a fervent believer.
tree68....as I pulled out onto the street I kicked it a bit - not enough to break the rear end loose, but enough to make me slide out of the drivers seat on the vinyl bench seat. As I pulled myself back behind the wheel and stopped for a traffic light, I buckled up, and have done so ever since.
That is the "winning" arguement for mandatory seat belts. It keeps the driver behind the controls and the passengers off the driver after any kind of impact or maneuver.
oltmanndThat is the "winning" argument for mandatory seat belts. It keeps the driver behind the controls and the passengers off the driver after any kind of impact or maneuver.
Just as this is one of the winning argument against mandatory air bags -- see how well a driver handles the controls when a 12-gauge shell worth of pyro blows a bag in his face after most any kind of impact...
OvermodBut no, I don't like the feel-good excuse of "safety" being used to establish seat-belt nonuse as a 'crime' allowing fishing expeditions and target-of-opportunity mandatory-appearance citations.
One common thread I've found in random encounters with street cops, they are a lot like panhandlers in convenience store parking lots. The harder you try to avoid eye contact, the more determined they become to meet you. fwiw.
I actually had a pleasant encounter with an NS special agent last summer. I had parked my vehicle in the area formerly occupied by the eastward waiting room at the former PRR station in Huntingdon, PA and set up to video several westbound trains I knew were coming.
I never got closer than about 20 feet from the tracks and was wearing a bright yellow T-shirt and a CSX Atlanta Division hat that was also reflective. As is my normal practice when railfanning; I was keeping watch in both directions to remain on alert for any approaching trains I may have missed on the scanner.
Anyhow; after the first train had passed; a vehicle pulled up alongside me and the special agent introduced himself and said he had originally had every intention of citing me for trespass but; after observing the manner in which I maintained situational awareness he was going to give me a pass. We chatted for a bit and he eventually drove off; allowing me to remain where I was with nothing more than a reminder to “be safe”.
I use seatbelts routinely. A few years ago, I was driving a 90 Chevy wagon (no air bags), on a 2 lane rural state highway, doing 55 when I T-boned a stop sign runner (moving from my right to left). I had a very badly sprained left wrist, from my wrist hitting the steering wheel, a couple of barely noticeable bruises from the seat belt/shoulder harness and a very small abrasion on my right knee where it hit the dashboard (the hospital said to put a band-aid on it when you get home).
I agree with your sentiment about getting pulled over for non-criminal offenses like failing to wear a seat belt. It smacks of enforcement for profit, which, sadly, occurs too often, mostly speed traps, but seat belts also fit that mold. While I think this is a little too far into my private life for government to be reaching, I also think you're crazy if you don't wear one while driving, especially given the high speeds on many highways nowadays-all the interstates near me are 70 MPH, some 75 here in flyover country. Keep in mind, you do have the option of refusing a search of your vehicle at such a traffic stop, since a traffic stop is not sufficient in the absence of other factors(strong pot smell when you open the window) probable cause for a search. The cop won't like it, and will probably give you a hard time, but you don't have to submit to one.
All that said, I don't feel so bad about the $273 handicap spot tickets. My wife has a heart condition, and can't walk very far, especially on humid days. It can be a real chore for her to get into a store from even a moderate distance parking spot, so much so that I will often drop her in front of the store if there are no handicap spots, and go park where I can. So, a pox on anyone taking up a handicap spot who is not truly in need. You deserve the ticket.
In the mid 1980's, I worked for Friendly Ice Cream in Albertson NY. I was an assistant manager, and usually closed, getting out around 1230 AM most nights. I'd take a ride down to Mineola, which had a pretty good parade around 0100, a Ronkonkoma train, then shortly after a Montauk train, followed closely by an Oyster Bay train, as well as a smattering of Huntington MU trains. The treat was RF 11, which would be held back til the OB train cleared. He'd come through eastbound with a pair of C 420's going full out, which was quite a sight and sound experience. If I got lucky, I'd get westbound RF 91, too.
Anyway, one night, I'm down at the station, parked in the lot when the local LIRR cop shows up. We got into a conversation covering, among other things, his varous duties. He said the LIRR, as part of the MTA, was a state agency(one of the 730 authorities in NY. I did not make up that number), that they were fully empowered and had the same authority as NY State troopers. He told me they primarily dealt with railroad issues, but occasionally would pull people over for traffic violations if they were sufficiently egregious. He said it was amusing to see people's reactions when they realized they were pulled over by an LIRR cop on the LI Expressway.
tabeckettAll that said, I don't feel so bad about the $273 handicap spot tickets.
That's not what I was talking about (disclaimer: I have a disability that makes the set-aside spaces useful, so I am not unbiased on that subject). The fines involved HOV lanes, which in certain locations in California may involve considerable construction expense to provide (which is paid for by general taxation). It was not uncommon, when I lived in California, to see special units specifically positioned and tasked to watch for violations of the HOV provisions, not always during rush hours or other periods of high occupancy. This is not a handicap provision; it's a gas-saving one, similar to the 'double nickel' speed limit (which has also seen its share of "police temptation" in enforcement -- as anyone driving in Ohio or Connecticut in the late '70s will likely remember!)
I wondered if you might not be talking about HOV lanes. We had them in NY as well, and I have also seen them in several other states. Some of them are time limited-they are only for HOV's during certain hours. I have also seen targeted enforcement of them during rush periods. Connecticut and Maryland seemed to be especially vigilant.
The 55 MPH speed limit was a joke from the beginning, but, as you note, did provide a lot of cover for "enforcement for profit." Speaking of California, they really need to get rid of the 55 MPH truck speed. It only causes congestion and a lot of lane changes, which not only doesn't make anyone safer, it creates the potential for less safety. Making any vehicle go 55 MPH across miles of desert(I 10, 15, and 40) is ludicrous, and unproductive. Washington, Oregon, and Michigan need to do the same.
Ohio and Connecticut were nowhere near as bad as PA was. PA used anything from an El Camino with a hay bale in back to a semi running bobtail as unmarked vehicles. They even used RVs for the job. But I won't go into CT with my truck or trailer as they can't seem to understand the difference between a commercial vehicle and one that is non-commercial. Winning a ribbon at a tractor show does not make it commercial, except to the greedy cop.
D NICHOLS...between a commercial vehicle and one that is non-commercial.
It doesn't help that in NY, pick-ups get a "commercial" plate.
tree68It doesn't help that in NY, pick-ups get a "commercial" plate.
New York is funny because the 'commercial' plate becomes important in enforcing Bob Moses' wackjob parkway laws ... but it goes by whether the vehicle is owned by a business entity, as well as is above a certain weight or size class. (I had a friend who ran a party-planning business, and she had a Subaru with commercial plates ... for the advantages in parking and standing on Manhattan, many of which require commercial plating...)
Of course, also in New York, you're a fool if you just send the ticket in instead of fighting it. Some of the forms of 'back-door' non-enforcement were enlightening to me, such as one instance of speeding (in Brooklyn) which "had to be dismissed" in court due to non-appearance of the arresting officer. He was lounging against the wall outside the courtroom and gave me a very pointed look that said 'do not do that again'!
As to tresspassers on RR property, a BNSF officer said a lot of tresspassers are wearing thr visibility vests but it's the white tennis shoes that give them away. I was surprised at the number of trespassers RRs get. They are not always watchful which in turned gets them watched. Have seen many on the RR I volunteer on. We have public walkways that cross at one end of our yard an many take a wrong turn on to our property. As OLS says "See Tracks.Think Trains."
God's Best & Happy Rails to You!
Bing (RIPRR The Route of the Buzzards)
The future: Dead Rail Society
tabeckettKeep in mind, you do have the option of refusing a search of your vehicle at such a traffic stop, since a traffic stop is not sufficient in the absence of other factors(strong pot smell when you open the window) probable cause for a search.
Most cops are capable of manufacturing probable cause, and if their search yields paydirt the judges will usually help the cop trample your rights.
In California any cop doing a traffic stop is allowed to search anywhere that the driver or passenger can reach without getting out of their seat, IF THE OFFICER feels his safety might be in jeopardy....and that is a call entirely up to the cop. So your glovebox is fair game, your console, under your seats, under the back seats
But not the trunk.....unless they find a weapon during their cursory search. I had a cop tell me that the baseball bat laying in my back seat qualified as a weapon, entitling him to search my trunk....since I had nothing to hide, I let him amuse me with his Dick Tracy impersonation.....3 o'clock in the morning, and he wanted to burn 45 minutes seasrching my trunk...for nothing. He actually asked me what the ball bat was for.......
Sometimes I think they play those games just as an excuse to run a warrant check.....fishing for the big one
Convicted OneSometimes I think they play those games just as an excuse to run a warrant check.....fishing for the big one
The scanner is on at my house 24/7. It might amaze folks the percentage of traffic stops that come back with warrants, unpaid tickets, etc.
I don't think the cops around here go looking for trouble - but if you're going to drive stupidly, and you've got outstanding items in the system, it's gonna catch up with you.
Then there's this story from the 1960's, as related by my (now retired) sheriff's deputy uncle - Midnight patrol (two deputies), boring as heck. The deputies see a car with a tail light out. They figure they'll just stop him and tell him the light was out and to get it fixed. Not big deal - a public service if you will.
Turn on the lights, tap the siren - he takes off. Runs three roadblocks before they finally get him stopped.
He didn't have his license with him. They probably weren't even going to ask him for it.
@Tree68: There is a "reality" TV show (one of many, I am sure) that documents police actions by use of a ride-along camera man. Due to watching this show I had already been wondering if the propensity to be a law breaker makes some individuals more likely to be simple traffic offenders as well. If they have outstanding warrants, they are more likely to run a red light, believe that STOP is an acronym for Slight Tap On Pedal, or try to elude police because they forgot to have their driver's license with them. Seems to be a "law doesn't apply to me" attitude, and it is across the board in all aspects.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
tree68Turn on the lights, tap the siren - he takes off. Runs three roadblocks before they finally get him stopped. He didn't have his license with him. They probably weren't even going to ask him for it.
License & Registration are the three words that get programmed into the police mind whenever they open their mouth. No matter if License and Registration are really needed.
Just like whenever at CSX Train Dispatcher communicates with a MofW employee the first thing the Dispatcher says - Milepost and ID - the first two things that are required to formulate a MofW Authority.
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