ChuckCobleighBTW, I am old enough to remember when "pedal pushers" referred to trousers popular with young women.
They're back...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Chuck - I wore them.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Stupid is stupid and there is no defense against personal stupidity.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
MookieWith the advent of the small device in so many driver's hands:
Just thinkin', but it seems that the most dangerous device in most drivers' hands is the steering wheel.
BTW, I am old enough to remember when "pedal pushers" referred to trousers popular with young women.
Last time i checked we still have a crossing with a cross buck signs and bell only on one of the cross bucks.
With the advent of the small device in so many driver's hands: A brass band, bells, whistles, gates, cheerleaders jumping up and down and flashing signage isn't going to make them pay any more attention to trains, planes, boats, fire trucks, police cars, ambulances, etc. They aren't "drivers" any more. They are "pedal pushers."
DeggestyI doubt that adding an octagonal Stop sign to the standard RR crossing sign will mean anything at all to most drivers on highways and streets...
The only place I've seen stop signs accompanying crossbucks has been on very low use, private, and industrial crossings - both of which will get only limited use by the general public. It's possible the crossing in question here had stop signs (or not).
Placing stop signs at crossings where such a stop might actually make things more dangerous isn't common. Unless it's a very busy crossing (in which case it will likely have at least lights) the locals will, indeed probably just ignore it, or maybe "totally pause..."
There are still a lot of crossings around the country that have only lights and bells, which kind of creates three types - crossbuck only, crossbucks and lights only, and crossbucks, lights and gates (which has variations, too).
Zug - I just had to do it...
Paul of Covington Euclid One approach that is extremely KISS is adding a “Yield” sign to the crossbucks at passive crossings. Around here I've seen the standard octagonal STOP signs added to the crossbucks, probably on the theory that people have learned to react instinctively to them. I still think most drivers turn their minds off when they drive, so many of the schemes that involve new signage have a limited effect.
Euclid One approach that is extremely KISS is adding a “Yield” sign to the crossbucks at passive crossings.
Around here I've seen the standard octagonal STOP signs added to the crossbucks, probably on the theory that people have learned to react instinctively to them. I still think most drivers turn their minds off when they drive, so many of the schemes that involve new signage have a limited effect.
Yep. They react to them by going faster. Ask any cop.
Norm
In general, people do observe the flashing lights and gates at the TRAXX crossings. It's been quite some time now since there has been an item about someone's being being hit by a TRAXX train.
Johnny
EuclidOne approach that is extremely KISS is adding a “Yield” sign to the crossbucks at passive crossings.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
DeggestyNo, Larry, a "light canon" is a very slender priest who is the canon of a cathedral. I have known the canon of a cathedral, but I was never sure what his responsibilities were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I never won a spelling bee in my life. I don't think I ever got to the second round.
If we're getting a light canNon, can we at least get a bass canNon to accompany it?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
tree68 Euclid Police cars have lots of blue and red flashing lights that get people to pull over or stay out of the way. I think I just pulled something, I was laughing so hard. I often drive a big red truck with more lights than any patrol car, a BIG siren (two, actually), and air horns which rival those on trains (some fire trucks actual have train horns). And people still don't get out of the way. I've been behind people driving with their windows open that still don't react. Euclid They run through intersections with conflicting traffic without needing special flagging machines staged at each intersection to hold the conflicting traffic. No - the powers that be want us to STOP at every intersection, even if we have the green light, to ensure that we have everyone's attention. And still we get hit. Light canon - as opposed to a heavy tome?
Euclid Police cars have lots of blue and red flashing lights that get people to pull over or stay out of the way.
I think I just pulled something, I was laughing so hard.
I often drive a big red truck with more lights than any patrol car, a BIG siren (two, actually), and air horns which rival those on trains (some fire trucks actual have train horns). And people still don't get out of the way. I've been behind people driving with their windows open that still don't react.
Euclid They run through intersections with conflicting traffic without needing special flagging machines staged at each intersection to hold the conflicting traffic.
No - the powers that be want us to STOP at every intersection, even if we have the green light, to ensure that we have everyone's attention. And still we get hit.
Light canon - as opposed to a heavy tome?
tree68No - the powers that be want us to STOP at every intersection, even if we have the green light, to ensure that we have everyone's attention. And still we get hit.
Tree, you remind me of a story down here a few years ago. Like many Caifornia cities, San Diego has installed systems at signal-controlled intersections to detect oncoming emergency vehicles and set signals to give green to the emergency vehicle and red to everyone else. It helped a little, but still there were instances of drivers blowing through the red and hitting the trucks broadside. It even happened when the emergency vehicle has had the green for quite a while.
Nothing to do but shake one's head because of the many drivers operating vehicles with their heads placed where they can't see the situation.
On further review, it occurs to me that there is an analytical problem, to wit, we have a system to prevent collisions and participants in that system. When the collision occurs, the question becomes is it the doing of the system or the participant that caused the collision. At some point, one has to make that decision and act or not act accordingly.
One sees that decision-making in court cases where someone is driving like a maniac and crashes, then sues whatever entity owns the road claiming dangerous condition of public property. Most of those are thrown out at the summary judgment stage because courts make that system/participant decision against the participant.
When railroading first began, they added a little warning to the locomotive and a little warning to the grade crossings. As things progress, they added more warning to the locomotive and more to the crossings. While the warning remained cost effective for the locomotive, it could not do so with the more numerous crossings. So crossings were prioritized for the amount of warning they deserved according to the road traffic, rail traffic levels, and other factors.
This evolution lead to two distinctly different classes of grade crossings with one having warning devices activated by the train, the so-called “Active crossing,” and the other with just signage and pavement markings, the so-called “Passive crossing.” Ever since this distinction was born, the passive crossings have been seen as a safety deficiency. But nobody wants to pay the price to update all the passive crossings, making them into active crossings.
So there has been a natural reaction where people try to come up with some sort of compromise that will make passive crossings safer, although not necessarily as safe as active crossings. This of course demands the KISS principle to keep the improvement affordable.
One approach that is extremely KISS is adding a “Yield” sign to the crossbucks at passive crossings. The premise is that the drivers frequently do not know that the crossbuck means yield. So when you add the yield sign to a crossbuck, you have two yield signs in effect; one the drivers understand and one that they don’t.
At first I thought it was a Class 55 (Deltic), but just wishful thinking, as it was actually a Class 37.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
EuclidActually, if you could just make locomotives look like big highway patrol cruisers, it would probably end the grade crossing problem.
Appears to have been tried in Britain. Appears to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7naLLeB0A
(starts at 0.17)
EuclidPolice cars have lots of blue and red flashing lights that get people to pull over or stay out of the way.
EuclidThey run through intersections with conflicting traffic without needing special flagging machines staged at each intersection to hold the conflicting traffic.
EuclidBut no matter what, you have to admit that the light canon is simpler than the big air bag on wheels pushed down the track ahead of each locomotive.
zugmann Euclid I don’t think it would need siege engines tossing moneys with messages to drivers. Keep it simple stupid. Says the man that wants to have a light canon (or whatever stupid silly invention you will think of this week) on a locomotive? If we want to keep it simple, a sign or crossing gates are pretty damned simple. C'mon... the KISS principle was never your modus operandi. Don't pretend it is.
Euclid I don’t think it would need siege engines tossing moneys with messages to drivers. Keep it simple stupid.
Says the man that wants to have a light canon (or whatever stupid silly invention you will think of this week) on a locomotive? If we want to keep it simple, a sign or crossing gates are pretty damned simple.
C'mon... the KISS principle was never your modus operandi. Don't pretend it is.
Well, the KISS principle must be relative to the application it takes to get the job done. Locomotives are not simple, but are still quite KISS. The light canon is not simple either, but I am betting that for what it will accomplish, it will be simpler than making all passive crossings into active crossing. But maybe not. By the time the bureaucracy signs off on it, and all the consultants jump on the gravy train, the cost per locomotive will be $1.5 million.
But no matter what, you have to admit that the light canon is simpler than the big air bag on wheels pushed down the track ahead of each locomotive.
EuclidI don’t think it would need siege engines tossing moneys with messages to drivers. Keep it simple stupid.
EuclidYou are acting like it is indeed black and white. One little problem, and it's a showstopper.
Yeah, little problems like "it probably wouldn't work". But hey, feel free to prove me wrong (wouldn't be the first time). I look forward to the Euclid, Inc. warning device on my next locomotive and would smile every time I used it.
DeggestyAll too often, I have seen ambulances with flashing lights being ignored by drivers--are they ignorant of the laws that direct other traffic to get out of the way of such--or do they think themselves to be more important than such?
New cars are also amazingly quiet inside. So a siren isn't heard as easily as before - and that's if the driver is actually paying attention to his/her surroundings and not their facebook feed.
But your point is also true. It's amazing to see oncoming emergency vehicles approaching (in plain site), and people can't be bothered to stop or pull over. They won't change lanes for tow trucks in the shoulder. Don't have the patience to wait until it is safe to pass a mail or trash truck. Won't adhere to construction zone speed limits when people are working literally feet away. Speed through parking lots like it's a NASCAR race. Whether it is ignorance or selfishness, people exist in their own little world anymore. No invention will change that. We need a huge societal shift. Hence: the monkey canon.
zugmannNothign is ever black and white, Bucky. Except some police cruisers.
You are acting like it is indeed black and white. One little problem, and it's a showstopper.
I see shades of gray. I think we can save most of the people most of the time.
Euclid I don’t think it would need siege engines tossing moneys with messages to drivers. Keep it simple stupid. Police cars have lots of blue and red flashing lights that get people to pull over or stay out of the way. The idea works most of the time. They run through intersections with conflicting traffic without needing special flagging machines staged at each intersection to hold the conflicting traffic. The only difference is that drivers don’t expect big delays when yielding to police pursuits. So they take chances with trains whereas they don’t take chances with cops. Actually, if you could just make locomotives look like big highway patrol cruisers, it would probably end the grade crossing problem.
I don’t think it would need siege engines tossing moneys with messages to drivers. Keep it simple stupid. Police cars have lots of blue and red flashing lights that get people to pull over or stay out of the way. The idea works most of the time. They run through intersections with conflicting traffic without needing special flagging machines staged at each intersection to hold the conflicting traffic.
The only difference is that drivers don’t expect big delays when yielding to police pursuits. So they take chances with trains whereas they don’t take chances with cops.
Actually, if you could just make locomotives look like big highway patrol cruisers, it would probably end the grade crossing problem.
I think the officers would say otherwise.
EuclidThe only difference is that drivers don’t expect big delays when yielding to police pursuits. So they take chances with trains whereas they don’t take chances with cops.
Plus it's the whole police thing. Badge and gun, powers to write tickets and arrest. Things we don't have.
As an aside - isn't it funny how many intersections don't need traffic lights? Just a simple stop sign. So why the need for all those fancy lights and timers/sensors at the other intersections?
Nothign is ever black and white, Bucky. Except some police cruisers.
zugmann BaltACD Trebuchet, then?
BaltACD
Trebuchet, then?
Even a Trebuchet will have large starting G loads.
EuclidThe point would be for the beam to lock onto the crossing target independently of any curving action of the locomotive as it approaches the crossing.
The phrase "deer in headlights" comes to mind for some reason...
BaltACDI suspect the G loading of the CO2 cannon.
Deggesty BaltACD zugmann Euclid May I suggest a CO2 canon that fires a trained monkey at cars approaching the grade crossings? The monkey would then slap the phone out of the driver's hand and point to the oncoming train. Trick would be getting them to wear the reflective vest. PETA might object. Object to the vest?
BaltACD zugmann Euclid May I suggest a CO2 canon that fires a trained monkey at cars approaching the grade crossings? The monkey would then slap the phone out of the driver's hand and point to the oncoming train. Trick would be getting them to wear the reflective vest. PETA might object.
zugmann Euclid May I suggest a CO2 canon that fires a trained monkey at cars approaching the grade crossings? The monkey would then slap the phone out of the driver's hand and point to the oncoming train. Trick would be getting them to wear the reflective vest.
Euclid
May I suggest a CO2 canon that fires a trained monkey at cars approaching the grade crossings? The monkey would then slap the phone out of the driver's hand and point to the oncoming train.
Trick would be getting them to wear the reflective vest.
PETA might object.
Object to the vest?
I suspect the G loading of the CO2 cannon.
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