Stopped Trains

[Anonymous]

I have heard that when a train stops, a crew member is required to walk the length of the train and perform a brake inspection. Is this accurate? Is the inspection required whenever a train comes to a complete stop? While the safety benefits are apparent, it seems that this creates an amazing operational impediment to moving 'em down the road.

Thanks for your help. - Ed

[Anonymous]

Not EVERY stop. Emergency, yes under certain conditions (up). Also when picking up cars that are not pre-tested. Others come to mind, but time is short.

[wabash1]

the times the train has to be walked is when an emergency application happens wanted or not. if the eot goes out while stopped to make sure the brakes release on rear or when the detector gets ya.

[BR60103]

There was a story (In Trains?) recently where the supervisor was riding in the cab and made the fireman get out in a swamp (or something equally unpleasant) to inspect the train while they were waiting for a meet.

[Anonymous]

Yea, now that you mention it I think that is where I heard it. And that's why I am wondering if the story is accurate. My recollection is that in the story a trainmaster from Florida was riding in the cab of a train in Virginia or NC. The train came to a stop waiting for another train which was overdue (but they didn't know how long it might take) and the trainmaster made the crewman get out and inspect the train because it was required by the rules. It struck me that if a crew member were required to inspect the train every time it stopped then traffic would slow down too much.

Thanks for the responses. I'll keep my eye on this one for more. - Ed

[PaulWWoodring]

Several points of clarification.

NORAC rules (most Eastern roads and ex-CR territory) do require a crewman to walk the entire train that suffers an undesirable emergency brake application. CSX rules differ somewhat. If a train goes into emergency and the EOT shows air restoring normally to the rear, then the train doesn't have to be walked, unless it is a "Key Train" (ie. one that carries a specified number and type of hazmat cars), in which case it does have to be walked.

CSX does have a rule that says if a train is going to be stopped for a sufficient length of time (such as waiting for a meet) the conductor should do a walking inspection of as much of the train as practicable. This is one of the most disregarded rules in the book. Most crews lean back and sleep every chance they get, because their body's cycles are so messed up from the odd and unpredictable hours. CSX rules do allow ONE member to nap (modified rule D), not exceeding 45 minutes, usually the engineer will, since he HAS to be alert when the train is moving. NS's compationaate answer to this growing concern for sleep deprivation is to require crews of stopped trains to turn on all lights in the cab so spotters hiding in the bushes can see if anyone is asleep!

[wabash1]

tell me what rule number bullitin or dispatcher bullitin that this states i am to turn on all lights in my cab while i am stopped on a norfolk southern engine so i can be seen sleeping and i will be the first one on this site to tell you when i get fired for breaking this rule. i have not heard of this and will continue to do my napping while waiting for a meet some dispatcher with no idea of what is going on set up amd losing 2 hrs or more running time waiting on a train 60 miles away.

[Soo2610]

Sounds like that dispatcher ain't too bright or that line needs more sidings.

[PaulWWoodring]

I had heard it from someone I trust with contacts at NS, sorry if it isn't true, but I have also heard that NS lives up to their "Nazi" nickname when it comes to napping on the train.

[Anonymous]

What is the nazi nickname mean

[wabash1]

well when conrail was going to be taken over thats when it started. the ns is like any other company in that you get out what you put in. i am not a fan of the rule book, and can get more done if i didnt haft to follow it. but they pay me to do what they want.so ill take the overtime and go to the bank with it. anyone fired becouse of not following the rules is a fool and they start romors that are not true. think about it if you own a company and you want things done a certain way and all employees but 2 or 3 do it who are you going to fire. and when before they cost you money or after.

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed...Yes there is a rule on the B.N.S.F., that if time allow's, you will walk your train as far as possible--looking for any number of anomaly's. The engineer would then recall you either with 4 'toot's', or through your radio portable. I know it sound's rather silly, but it's not a bad idea...one that is rarely practiced. But remember all rail-road management philosophy...the rules are created in many respects to 'hang-you' in case you did'nt inspect your train, and something happened down the road where some damage may have been done etc. Then at the 'tea party' (investigation) they would ask you if you violated rule ??? I think you get the meaning...Hommie

[Anonymous]

Hommie-
Hi. BNSF also does some of their meets a little bit differently. Instead of having one train pull onto the siding and wait for the other train to blow past on the main, the train will stop on the main and the other train will run around it on the siding. This may sound strange, but it actually a unique way of doing a double roll-by inspection. While the stopped train waits on the main, the opposite train will enter the siding at 10 miles per hour. While the train is passing so slow, the conductor of the stopped train gets out of the cab and does a normal roll-by. He can better judge the train when it is moving at a lower speed. And while that conductor is doing his inspection, the conductor of the moving train is performing the same inspection on the stopped train from in the cab, or on the front platform. This way, both trains are checked during one meet. The conductors like this form better because they don't have to do as much walking, and saving all of this walking saves time, so trains can start rolling as soon as they get track and time and a green eye.

-Brian

[BRAKIE]

When I worked on the railroad,sleeping on the job was not allowed.I do not know of ANY job that wants a employee to sleep on duty except a Fire fighter when he is on his 24.Now,sleeping on the job is not new.It is as old as railroading itself.Sleeping on duty was called feather bedding.As far as stopped NS trains turning on the lights,this is not so I have watched many night meets and the lights stay out.Both crew members appeared to be awake.Now,if a train waits 2 hours for a meet it must be on a little used line with very few sidings.Another railfan anti NS smear.The reason I say this is because most railfans don't like the NS because it stopped the Steam Choo-Choo program and every since then it been smear NS time.Then you have the ex CR employees singing the blues.If some of these ex CR employees wasn't happy with CR,what makes any one think they will be happy with NS or CSX? I saw this happen with the PRR/NYC( sorry I can not say that other word) merger.Alot of us P-company men was not happy with the merger.

[Anonymous]

Hommie,

Thanks for the reply. It seems to me that this rule is excessive. What would happen if all the railroad crews obeyed this rule to the letter?

I don't work for the railroads, but from my point of view railroad management is under pressure from external sources like the FRA and the NTSB to implement rules that are not always practical.

I find this a very interesting subject. Thanks - Ed

[Anonymous]

Yeah I was gonna say, I dont think I have ever seen a "spotter" anywhere on the St. Louis district. Id feel sorry though for the poor sap who got stuck with that trife of a job though, yeah, get paid to sit along side a siding somewhere and wait.

[Anonymous]

About your comment regarding railfans trashing NS; I have learned that some railfans don't care about anything as long as they get to see the trains they want to see or ride the trains they want to ride without paying for it themselves. The railroad industry is one of the best things ever to happen to this country. Without them we may be two one-ocean countries instead of one two-ocean country. Later - Ed

[wabash1]

well the line i run on is a single main with 7 siding 2 miles long on 108 miles. we was taken over by the illinois division and dont like it. the dispatcher dont know what they are doing. i am qualified to run from st.louis to louisville ky right by scott afb. the other section is 170 miles with 7 siding that are 2 miles long. the way we inspect is watching trains go into sidings and if you are first there line yourself in and watch the train by then when you line back and walk up you inspect it again. but we dont haft to inspect it just becouse you are stopped for a meet.

[BRAKIE]

J,Yeah,I understand what you are saying.Is this a heavy used track or is it like the old Pittsburg Div of Conrail? This was a busy main line in the days gone by.Now,it is not used all that much.The NS Sandusky Line is very busy,infact they double track alot of it.Most meets here is averaged at 20-25 mins sometimes less.

[BRAKIE]

Ed,When I worked on the railroad,sometimes we had to bend rules to get the job done and clear up for a superior train.Know and understand we did not indanger ourselves or follow railroaders by bending the rules.If there was to much danger,we would not do it.

[Anonymous]

THATS THE WAY WE DONE IT ON THE CLINCHFIELD.

[Anonymous]

Hello Brian...that's right, the B.N.S.F. also has an important rule as you know, that if you're stopped on the main or the siding, you will get off your dead-rear, and inspect the movement of the said train as it rolls by. This is by far and away the best inspection you can do as you alluded to. But in all my years, I have never known a dispatcher to run one train around another for general inspection purposes. Usually it's to keep a 'hot' intermodal, or some !@#%*^& Amtrak moving. Talk to you again...Hommie

[Anonymous]

Hey Brakie...have you heard that the B.N.S.F. now has a exception to sleeping on the job for 'main-line' crews that was adopted about 2 years ago? Yes, it's true. And only for 45 min. at a time. Engineer, and Conductor, take turns. Where in the heck would so much time pass where such a exception could be realised? On the Scenic Sub., which goes over and through the Cascade Mtn. range to Wenatchee from Seattle Wa. It's single trk., and sometimes the waits are long, especially if someone on the 2.2% grade has a 'Hick-up'. There are other subtle restrictions on this exception, but it allows some relief for the guy's. Quite a move on the part of a Class 1 would'nt you say?...Hommie

[BRAKIE]

Yes,I would say quite a move.I can see where that might pay off in the long run.We all know of the lack of rest most train crews get these days so,I can see where that would pay off.I also recall being "called" for a train even before I got my allowed time off between runs,such is the life of a railroader.This was expectually true of the "EXTRA BOARD" crews.If one would refuse a call,he would go to the bottom of the list,not a wise idea at a away from home terminal! Now,one would do this for added time off at his "HOME TERMINAL".In those days that might mean 24 hours off before the next call depeding on traffic,mark offs,vacations,and so forth.I can only guess that holds true today due to the many work rule changes.So,yes,I can see where that would pay off in the long run.Thanks for the information.

[wabash1]

we have not lost any trains gained only a few the t&s gangs are out and mess up traffic. the only thing iss if youur the lead train of 3 going west and 1 train going east your going to wait on the west bounds before you go. traffic is slow right now but still moving.