jimnortonI am going to take the same stance of: "graffiti covered cars carry freight just as well as non graffiti cars" when it comes to my lawn. And that is there is no financial return for me to keep it mowed and manicured. My yard still contains my house whether its knee high or freshly cut. So why bother? The reason I mow my yard is for the good of the community. The railroads should have the same respect for the communities they serve as I do for the community I live in. If someone throws trash in my yard I pick it up. One has to wonder how much graffiti vandalism has been inspired by graffiti covered freight cars touring the nation over the last decade? It is irresponsible for America's railroads to promote images of crime and decay. Plain and simple.
Most incorporated areas have some form of laws concerning grass cutting. I have received warnings from my city when my mower was in the shop and 'excellent growing conditions' existed for about 3 weeks. Grass cutting and graffiti are apples & kumquats.
There may also be laws about graffiti on permanent structures, or there may not. If there aren't, there is no obligation to eliminate the graffiti.
Individuals and corporations operate in their own best interests within the letter of the law.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Unless your lawn is at the point of housing small game and large rodents, there really isn't any "community good" in a short-cut lawn.
Just an excuse for little fiefdoms to exercise their limited power.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
jimnortonI am going to take the same stance of: "graffiti covered cars carry freight just as well as non graffiti cars" when it comes to my lawn. And that is there is no financial return for me to keep it mowed and manicured. My yard still contains my house whether its knee high or freshly cut. So why bother? The reason I mow my yard is for the good of the community.
Tell you what - we'll plant a lawn for you on a flat car. We'll expect you to keep it mowed and weeded. While we send it hither and yon.
One of the most heavily graffitied fleets is the perishables - the "salad shooter." Nice white cars begging to be used as canvasses. Can't blame the railroads for not keeping them painted nice and clean because the railroads don't own them.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
zugmann Unless your lawn is at the point of housing small game and large rodents, there really isn't any "community good" in a short-cut lawn. . . . [snipped - PDN]
- Paul North.
With the climate down here, once a week mowing is cutting it close..
Seriously, if they would let me keep a goat, or maybe a few sheep, the problem would be solved,
And you get to barbecue in the end!
23 17 46 11
edblysardSeriously, if they would let me keep a goat, or maybe a few sheep, the problem would be solved,
I don't think they'd trust a railroader with sheeps or goats.
Ulrich I bought a house in a nice area because I like a nice looking neighborhood. We have zoning and HOA to prevent some slime moving in and trashing his house/yard with abandoned cars etc in the yard. This makes an eye sore and lowers the value of all of the properties in the neighborhood.
Yes the graffiti on rail cars is unsightly but it is almost impossible to prevent except for employing a couple million railway police. We could keep the trains in constant motion so the "canvass" is not accessible. Unless we double track every line so there are no stops to pass another train (will not ever happen) and have high speed loading/unloading (impossible) the cars will continue to be "canvasses".
ccltrains [snipped - PDN] . . . We could keep the trains in constant motion so the "canvass" is not accessible. Unless we double track every line so there are no stops to pass another train (will not ever happen) and have high speed loading/unloading (impossible) the cars will continue to be "canvasses".
Those that are caught ought to be sentenced to a few months of scraping it off and repainting the cars in a hot summer sun. Just chain 'em to the car !
Do other countries have this problem ? Canada (excluding interchange cars from the US, of course ?) Mexico ? (ditto) Japan ? European ones ? ( Too cold in Russia for the paint to work most of the time, I suppose) China ? Etc.
.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Canada and Mexico seem to have the same problem. In my experience in Europe, Swiss trains were sparklingly clean, Italian trains were covered in graffiti (even passenger cars) and the French trains were sort of in the middle.
zugmann edblysardSeriously, if they would let me keep a goat, or maybe a few sheep, the problem would be solved, I don't think they'd trust a railroader with sheeps or goats.
Well yeah, there is that…..
Lets back way up......The point is NOT that the railroads should be graffiti free. The point here is the railroads should do something, anything to combat this blight. We see nothing meaningful.
All of us, given an hour, could find numerous freight cars covered in graffiti. And, given a source of paint we could paint out a portion of these graffiti tags. Thats "buffing" and its an insult and discouragement to the "artist.". The cars do not have to be taken out of service to be buffed. After all, they weren't taken out of service to covered end to end in graffiti. This could be done in yards across the nation. Rig up a vehicle with a paint compressor and the railroads could easily send a much needed message.
The public still perceives the railroads as a dying industry and that "everything moves by truck." Take that image and plaster it with graffiti and the perception is enforced. It's the "public be damned" all over again.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
Definition: "Buffing" is to partially paint over a graffiti tag. Unlike repainting the freight car, buffing does not offer a "fresh canvas." By destroying part of the graffiti tag the work is defaced. And that, destroys much tagger ego.
There lies the method to combat graffiti vandalism on the nation's rails. Not repaints.
jimnorton The cars do not have to be taken out of service to be buffed. After all, they weren't taken out of service to covered end to end in graffiti. This could be done in yards across the nation. Rig up a vehicle with a paint compressor and the railroads could easily send a much needed message.
The cars do not have to be taken out of service to be buffed. After all, they weren't taken out of service to covered end to end in graffiti. This could be done in yards across the nation. Rig up a vehicle with a paint compressor and the railroads could easily send a much needed message.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
There is also a term called "benching." That is where admirers of graffiti gather to watch the "art work" of a passing train. There are internet sites devoted to freight car graffiti as well. If these tags were suddenly being buffed I assure you the word would be out. These taggers photograph their work. Before it ended, they could even trace the routing of their work via the host railroad's web site!
As far as the EPA. I can go out and paint an entire house or building but can't paint two or three panels on a boxcar? That's a story for another day|!
Graffiti vandals have been "buffing" each others' works for years. Doesn't seem to have made much difference.
And who is going to pay for these trucks, paints, labor, etc?
jimnorton It is much more difficult to cover portions of left over graffiti in lieu of a freshly painted surface.
It is much more difficult to cover portions of left over graffiti in lieu of a freshly painted surface.
I've seen plenty of stuff out there covering previous stuff. Just takes more paint.
I don't like all this crap on the cars, either. But then again, is it worth spending millions of dollars on?
I don't know where the idea that preventive measures would cost millions of dollars comes from.
Give me four cans of .99 cent brown primer spray paint from Wal Mart and I can "buff" 40 square feet of graffiti on a typical boxcar.
That equates to $3.96 per boxcar. With 70,000 North American Boxcars that equals $277,000.00.
Or $39,600.00 worth of paint per Class One to buff ever boxcar!
jimnorton I don't know where the idea that preventive measures would cost millions of dollars comes from. Give me four cans of .99 cent brown primer spray paint from Wal Mart and I can "buff" 40 square feet of graffiti on a typical boxcar. That equates to $3.96 per boxcar. With 70,000 North American Boxcars that equals $277,000.00. Or $39,600.00 worth of paint per Class One to buff ever boxcar!
You work for free? Most RRers don't.
And "buffing" would make the boxcars look even worse. Is vandalizing the vandals' vandalism really any different than the vandals' initial vandalism? Crap sprayed on a car is crap sprayed on a car.
If the gang tags that get sprayed on the more "creative" "art"work don't stop the "artists", then I doubt "buffing" will make much difference.
I'm out of quotation marks.
jimnorton Give me four cans of .99 cent brown primer spray paint from Wal Mart and I can "buff" 40 square feet of graffiti on a typical boxcar. That equates to $3.96 per boxcar. With 70,000 North American Boxcars that equals $277,000.00. Or $39,600.00 worth of paint per Class One to buff ever boxcar!
Have fun with your trains
dehusmanHow does painting a patch 4 ft high and 10 ft long brown on one side of a 50-60 ft long boxcar tagged 5-6 ft high along the full length reduce the car from being a "blight"? You still have 350-600 sq ft of boxcar side that's tagged (more if you consider the patch a poorly done tag).
Even moreso if one considers the autorack I saw once which had the entire side tagged by one "artiste" (or group, as it were), end-to-end, top-to-bottom. It certainly represented a lot of shoplifting of matching paint...
I'm sure there are more like it.
And, as I mentioned earlier, there's a reason the taggers have generally learned to leave the reporting marks, etc, intact.
You'd think our chemists could come up with a spray paint resistant coating. The spray could bead up and roll away like water on a Rain-X'ed windshield.
In some states I believe it is legal to shoot trespassers if you first fire a warning shot. So, give a few crews a rifle and if they see someone vandilizing property, then they fire a warning shot, and if the person doesn't stop defacing property, shoot them. A few stories on the news, and graffiti on railroads will almost stop. If the police get mad at the RR, then you can say you are worried that these people are terrorist, and you are worried about them blowing up a train. General trespassers will be given a warning to get off RR property. Also, give crews spray cans of common colors, and when they are checking the train, they can cover some of the graffiti. If crews did this every week, there would be almost no graffiti. Problem solved!!!
Kyle, could you please list the states in which you believe this is true, and if possible link to supporting documentation?
I'm pretty sure it's illegal in all states to use deadly force to protect property. Trespassing with clear threat to people, in which I believe it is legal to thwart with deadly force, is not the same as trespassing in general and property damage in particular.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
gardendance Kyle, could you please list the states in which you believe this is true, and if possible link to supporting documentation? I'm pretty sure it's illegal in all states to use deadly force to protect property. Trespassing with clear threat to people, in which I believe it is legal to thwart with deadly force, is not the same as trespassing in general and property damage in particular.
I am pretty sure the point that people messing with rolling stock could cause a massive derailment of a train, especially an oil train. Imagine if a bomb was attached to a tank car and then blown up when the train was in the middle of a highly populated area traveling at a decent speed. If terrorist planted several bombs on oil trains to explode on major cities at the same time, the results would be horrific. It would also send the railroads into chaos. Already, traffic is backed up. Several huge derailments would make that worse. If a terrorist blows up the bomb when the train is on a bridge, that route would be closed for months or years. Or worse, an chemical train being blown up in a populated area could kill and injure hundreds, and contaminate water. Is that not enough of a reason to keep people from tampering with rolling stock. Or are we going to just sit around and wait, saying that's not going to happen, and have another 9/11? This is a major security problem, and it needs to be fixed. If the Railroads were smart they would reach out to the public and tell people to report suspicious activity, Railfans could "patrol" the right of ways and report anything suspicious which would cover more area than just the RR police cover, it would be like adding a bunch of guards. No one can completely protect the RR infrastructure and rolling stock, but you can minimumize risk.
This plan would also help top graffiti as an added bonus.
Kyle This is a major security problem, and it needs to be fixed. If the Railroads were smart they would reach out to the public and tell people to report suspicious activity, Railfans could "patrol" the right of ways and report anything suspicious which would cover more area than just the RR police cover, it would be like adding a bunch of guards. No one can completely protect the RR infrastructure and rolling stock, but you can minimumize risk.
But how could we trust the railfans? They could be a security risk. Better stop people from railfanning, too.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.