Murphy Siding Euclid The mind of the tagger: http://www.northbankfred.com/canada.html Or the mind of an imaginative writer working for a free supermarket paper. Really- the writing style makes me think of This is Spinal Tap., crossed with every one of those writers who had to give back a major writing award because they made it all up.
Euclid The mind of the tagger: http://www.northbankfred.com/canada.html
The mind of the tagger:
http://www.northbankfred.com/canada.html
Well, I guess anything could be made up, but I did not see anything to make me jump to that conclusion. So, I am not sure I understand your point unless it is that this story conflicts with what you believe that tagging is all about.
To me one of the strange things about modern graffiti is the obvious drive and purpose behind it. I see the drive and purpose in the graffiti, but it is hard to connect that with the person doing the tagging. I thought it was interesting that the article says some taggers compose their work ahead of time in sketches and layouts.
They always say that the best writing is about something the author has experience with. I read a bunch of stuff on that site, and conclude that the shear adversity of riding freight trains must make a person a better writer.
schlimm edblysardWhat "birghtly colored" cars do you refer to? Ever heard of little line called the Union Pacific? The old Railbox fleet? Yellow paint with covering power is more expensive than a basic rust protector. But those are the parent company's colors, you say? You just made my point. The reason is beyond simple pragmatics.
edblysardWhat "birghtly colored" cars do you refer to?
Ever heard of little line called the Union Pacific? The old Railbox fleet? Yellow paint with covering power is more expensive than a basic rust protector. But those are the parent company's colors, you say? You just made my point. The reason is beyond simple pragmatics.
Well,
I think you may have the TTX leasing company confused with UP, but still, I guess you are referring to the old “billboard” cars” with the nice slogans and logos?
Painting those is like painting the manure wheelbarrow at the stables…you could, but why would you want to?
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You really keep missing the point. All I am saying is that various US railroads and leasing companies spent a lot of money painting locomotives and cars with various paint and herald schemes that are more complicated and expensive than need be purely from the viewpoint of protection from corrosion. The question is: Why did they do that? I believe it was an attempt at branding and image. Maybe that was stupid and wasteful, maybe not. What do you think?
I never said they should repaint them or have repainted them or even should wash the locomotives, now or in the past.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I found the attitude of the writer kind of troubling. He seemed to admire them.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Not really missing the point, and yes, it is a attempt at brand identification, but most of the time it is a vinyl decal, not paint.
And most taggers are careful to paint around those stickers, for the reasons mentioned before.
About the only railroad that does invest heavily in a “Branding Image” paint scheme is KCS, with the “Southern Belle “paint scheme,
Besides the grain car order, they applied it to a bunch of coil cars also.
And, personally, I like it.
schlimm You really keep missing the point. All I am saying is that various US railroads and leasing companies spent a lot of money painting locomotives and cars with various paint and herald schemes that are more complicated and expensive than need be purely from the viewpoint of protection from corrosion. The question is: Why did they do that? I believe it was an attempt at branding and image. Maybe that was stupid and wasteful, maybe not. What do you think? I never said they should repaint them or have repainted them or even should wash the locomotives, now or in the past.
With UP, it's all about branding with locomotives. As of late cars only get treatment of logos and your basic gray coloring. All logos, reporting marks, and numbers are now stickers, which can be easily removed if need be.
CNW experimented with black reporting marks and numbers which were reflective, giving excellent visibility at night, even with an old lantern. They survived well even with light coatings of cement or grain dust over the years. A blessing for old switchmen.
Paul of Covington Euclid The mind of the tagger: http://www.northbankfred.com/canada.htmlI found the attitude of the writer kind of troubling. He seemed to admire them.
Well a lot of people have nothing but contempt for taggers, and if that is missing from a commentary, it might seem like approval. But I think the author is fairly objective and just telling it like it is. He talks about taggers who feel good about what they do, but I don’t think that means that the author approves or is promoting it.
It is interesting that some of the tagging trade has a sort of code of justice where they avoid obliterating car numbers because workers need those numbers. There seems to be a fair amount of “social justice” attitude in tagging that has them lashing out at the rich and successful while identifying with the working man.
Earlier in this thread, it was suggested that railroaders may be doing some of the tagging. While there has been a tradition of chalk drawing “signatures” by railroaders, this spray paint graffiti is a different animal. But what I do gather from reading that site is that tagging is closely linked in to train hopping. Or at least participants share a lot of common attitudes.
Graffiti may not really be the right term because that has traditionally referred to rather spontaneous and thoughtless scribbles. This spray painting is often highly planned, even to the extent of working by pre-developed sketches and layouts, and dozens of paint can colors.
I used to think that tagging was done almost exclusively by inner city gangs. Now I believe that most tagging is not related to that profile at all. Taggers seem to have a stranger profile than gang identification.
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Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Euclid Graffiti may not really be the right term because that has traditionally referred to rather spontaneous and thoughtless scribbles. This spray painting is often highly planned, even to the extent of working by pre-developed sketches and layouts, and dozens of paint can colors. How 'bout we refer to it as premeditated vandalism?
Euclid Graffiti may not really be the right term because that has traditionally referred to rather spontaneous and thoughtless scribbles. This spray painting is often highly planned, even to the extent of working by pre-developed sketches and layouts, and dozens of paint can colors.
How 'bout narcissistic vandalism?
These people aren’t so sure what to call it:
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Graffiti-is-it-art-or-vandalism/28040
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schlimm Murphy Siding Euclid Graffiti may not really be the right term because that has traditionally referred to rather spontaneous and thoughtless scribbles. This spray painting is often highly planned, even to the extent of working by pre-developed sketches and layouts, and dozens of paint can colors. How 'bout we refer to it as premeditated vandalism? How 'bout narcissistic vandalism?
Exceptionally apt description, kinda has a ring to it also!
Murphy Siding Euclid These people aren’t so sure what to call it: http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Graffiti-is-it-art-or-vandalism/28040 Well, it's in an art newspaper, and all the comments except one appear to be written by the spray painters or their admirers, so there's certainly no slant in that article. If the Government leaders in Montreal allow people to spray paint on rental property owned by private citizens, would they be just as welcoming when the public buildings start getting adorned?
Euclid These people aren’t so sure what to call it: http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Graffiti-is-it-art-or-vandalism/28040
Here 83% say graffiti is art. There appears to be some problem deciding whether art is allowed to be illegal:
http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-graffiti-art
Here is quite an impressive collection. I am not sure about the legal context in some of this. I would not be surprised if some cities actually sanction it:
http://www.streetartutopia.com/
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It seems those percentages would be prone to wide variances, depending on whether you were the perpetrator or the victim of the graffiti.
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Some of the victims are protesting city orders and citations requiring graffiti to be removed from their property.
Thing about graffiti is they're plural. 1 graffito + 1 graffito = 2 graffiti. Never mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2cLVkeZ2Ng
Murphy Siding Yes. And perhaps some of those same folks will be in favor of having graffiti all over the front of City Hall, museums and the public library. That doesn't make it right.
Yes. And perhaps some of those same folks will be in favor of having graffiti all over the front of City Hall, museums and the public library. That doesn't make it right.
Some cities are allowing that, and then it is right. A lot of people see graffiti clearly in terms of right and wrong. They have no doubt about it being wrong. But there are a surprising number of fans who admire the art and the sometimes downtrodden nature of the perpetrators. They like the art and symathize with the cause. They may struggle with the right and wrong of defacing private property, but some are able to dismiss that or even identify with the anarchy of graffiti as a cause of rebellion.
It is kind of like robbing from the rich to give to the poor. Some think that is just. Others think it is robbery.
Euclid It is kind of like robbing from the rich to give to the poor. Some think that is just. Others think it is robbery.
It is kind of like robbing from the poor to give to the rich. Some think that is just. Others think it is robbery.
FTFY.
Norm
It seems to me that fining a property owner for not removing graffiti on his wall amounts to making a victim of the graffiti perpetrator and blaming the wall owner for supplying the “canvass” for the graffiti. In this model, the graffiti perpetrator is seen as a struggling artist, while the wall owner is seen as financially well off. So the whole act is a transaction of social justice.
Euclid It seems to me that fining a property owner for not removing graffiti on his wall amounts to making a victim of the graffiti perpetrator and blaming the wall owner for supplying the “canvass” for the graffiti. In this model, the graffiti perpetrator is seen as a struggling artist, while the wall owner is seen as financially well off. So the whole act is a transaction of social justice.
See what Ben Franklin says below:
I would see it as a travesty.
Social justice is a travesty.
If graffiti is the plural, I suggest that, instead of "graffito" that "graffitus" is one male graffiti "artist"; 2 or more such males are "graffiti"; then, if girls or women are spray-painting boxcars they are "graffitae"; a lone female spray-painting a tank car is a "graffita." But that leaves the entire (awful) practice with the need for a much better collective term.
I earnestly wish for "graffitus emeritus" or graffita emerita," and that the pernicious practice itself come to an end.
While on the board of our transit agency we had a problem with graffiti on the concrete abutments and walls at one particular place. Fencing only obtained some caustic postings about not being able to stop them. In jest I suggested we hook the fence to our 700 volt catenary. The operating people liked the idea but the potential law suits ruled it out. My second and realistic suggestion was to have a transit officer monitor the area. It only took two hours to catch the culprits with one being the daughter of a prominant city official. When word got out about the scrubbing detail of the culprits to clean up their "art work' we never had a problem again at this location.
That sort of thing works. A couple of years ago we had a graffiti artist tagging a number of places down town. The police set up a decoy in the form of a newly painted wall and watched. Soon after dark, a young man started work with spray cans. His trial was an embarrassment to his well-known, influential parents and d to the art department of a nearby university. He was required to clean up all the graffiti the town could find and then pay a$500.00 fine and serve six months in the County Jail. WE haven't had a problem since.
I submit that one reason that Semi-trailers aren't tagged more frequently is that the drivers, often the owners, are frequently in the cab of the truck when it is parked and they don't sit quietly while the vandals work. A State Patrolman told me of an incident where a truck was pilled to the side of an Interstate waiting for a repair truck when a pick-up pulled alongside on the right. The pick-up driver and passenger got out and put a ladder against the trailer. One went up with a spray can and the other started in on the lower side. At that point, the owner=operator quietly got out of the tractor along with his dog. The dog bit the guy on the ground and the driver knocked over the ladder. The trucker called 911 and the State Patrol responded along with a County Deputy. An ambulance was called for the two "artists" one with dog bites, the other with a broken arm. The County Deputy searched their p-ck-up and found both weed and meth, so he seized the truck. The two vandals were charged with destruction of private property and possession of illegal drugs. Their truck will be sold at auction by the county. The Semi driver was not charged.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
jimnortonI am going to take the same stance of: "graffiti covered cars carry freight just as well as non graffiti cars" when it comes to my lawn. And that is there is no financial return for me to keep it mowed and manicured. My yard still contains my house whether its knee high or freshly cut. So why bother? The reason I mow my yard is for the good of the community. The railroads should have the same respect for the communities they serve as I do for the community I live in. If someone throws trash in my yard I pick it up. One has to wonder how much graffiti vandalism has been inspired by graffiti covered freight cars touring the nation over the last decade? It is irresponsible for America's railroads to promote images of crime and decay. Plain and simple.
Maybe we need laws to require the railroads to clean up the graffiti occupying their property for the reasons you cite.
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