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Welcome to Jeffrey's Trackside Diner July, 2020 In The UK and British Isles

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Welcome to Jeffrey's Trackside Diner July, 2020 In The UK and British Isles
Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:00 PM

 For July 2020 we find the Diner in the United Kingdom.

We will be visiting the environs around London and the rest of England proper along with visiting nearby Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales 


For those new to this place, Jeffrey´s Trackside Diner  is the place for you to go to relax and talk off topic about most anything - as long as you stay within the forum rules, which means certain hot button topics are excluded. Please refer to Steven Otte´s post on Forum Policies. Everybody is welcome to participate in the Diner ! 

The staff - that´s Zoe, Chloe, Flo, Janie, and Brunhilda —  is very friendly and will serve up plenty of virtual diner fare with a smile. Just don´t forget to leave a generous tip! Now and then, our host Steven Otte chips in and brings along some goodies for us to try - which is always heartily welcomed! 

 


 

Come in and sit for a while, ALL are welcome.

As always, in rememberance of our fallen but not forgotten comrades, here is the RIP Track:

 

The RIP Track

  

 

At the beginning of each month, it is the time to pay our respect to friends no longer with us.

 

 Barry Arnold aka BlownoutCylinder

Alan B

Jerry Cox aka Cox47

Wolfgang Dudler aka Westport Terminal

Bob Hartle aka cmrproducts

Tom Mills

Harold Minkwitz aka hminky

Ed Murphy

Michael L. Myles aka Inch

Bill North

James W. Rohde aka CapeJim

Stein Rypern, Jr. aka Steinjr

Andy Sperandeo

Jeffrey "Running Bear" Wimberley

 

Gone BUT Not Forgotten


 

British contributions to railway advancement were significant and to a great extent are still prevalent today.

From the BBC:

Like the steamship, the railway predates the Victorian era. The start of the modern railway age is usually marked by the opening in 1825 of the Stockton & Darlington line. Other, mostly local, lines followed, the most important of which was the Liverpool and Manchester of 1830, famous for Robert Stephenson's Rocket locomotive. With its multitube boiler, blast pipe exhaust, pistons connected directly to the driving wheels and its ability to haul its train at over 30 miles per hour, this machine set the standard for locomotive design. The first long distance lines were opened in the first years of Queen Victoria's reign, the London and Birmingham in 1838, part of Brunel's London to Bristol route the same year and the London and Southampton in 1840. A railway boom and mania followed during the 1840s, with promoters and speculators planning lines all over Britain.

Expansion of the rail network was rapid and continuous. Between 1861 and 1888 the mileage grew by 81 percent and the traffic carried by 180 percent. By 1900, 18,680 miles were in use and over 1100 million passengers were being carried, along with huge quantities of freight. From 1852 the carriage of freight provided the railway companies with the bulk of their income. Safety standards, at first almost non-existent, gradually improved with advances in signalling and vehicle technology. By the end of the century trains ran regularly, and with complete safety, at speeds in excess of 70 miles per hour. Comfort also improved. The first lavatories appeared in family saloons in the 1860s, the first proper sleeping cars were introduced in 1873 and dining cars came into use from 1879.

 

I look forward to hosting our visit to the UK and welcome any additions, photos or anecdotes from our knowledgeable crew here in the DinerSmile

Cheers, Ed 

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:20 PM

Good Morning!

Thanks, Ed, for the smooth flight over the Big Pond, the soft landing and the welcome on the British Isles! What a treasure trough for a train buff to visit. Britain was not only the cradle of railroading, but has a preservation scene unmatched elsewhere! Aside from quirky little narrow gauge lines running on 15" track, like the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch Rlwy. or the Ravenglass & Eskdale Rlwy, there are a number of "real" NG lines to visit, including a rack line up Britain´s highest mountain - and no, it´s not the Mt. Everest Smile, Wink & Grin. When Dr. Beeching took the axe to Britain´s branchlines, a number of preservation groups sprang up, resulting in a larger number of preservation lines in some of Britain´s most beautiful areas. I bet we will visit some of them this month!

I´ll be off to my eye doctor in an hour, just to have a check up on the outcome of the recent surgery. I still see those gnats dancing before my eye, but that is supposed to be normal. We will see Laugh!

 

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:43 PM

Great to see you here, Ulrich! I wish you well at your checkup. I'm actually scheduled for a CT scan later today to look for a few kidney stones that I believe I passed just last night Tongue Tied Old age is sure a challenge!

Let's take a look around the loco sheds and see what's going on. There's a new chap starting out:

"Better get on the chimney, young Harry" Right "Outside and inside, mind"

 


 

Happy Canada Day to our friends in the Provinces and Territories!

 CN_Toronto by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:57 PM

I have a feeble minded Internet connection today, which is quitre annoying!

There are a number of interesting videos made by British Transport Films available on Youtube, showing British trains in the 1950s and 1960s, and even later. BTF was closed when BR was dismantled in the 1980s. Up until today, a cornucopia of information for the aficionado.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:15 AM

Yes, thanks for the smooth flight over Ed.

I see the diner has arrived, let me go supervise its unloading. HMMM...All of a sudden I am out of retirement, oh well at least I won't let them drop it.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO: World's largest cargo plane lands at Pearson ...

Thanks for the Canada Day acknowledgement Ed. I am not sure how much celebrating will be going on though, in B.C. today we had 12 new cases with a total of 18 in hospital including 3 in the ICU. Were getting there.

I sure hit a wall of exhaustion yesterday, I have too much going on and I still think I am eighteen. Oh well I took it easy today and worked on the worlds longest bathroom remodel. Got the wedi board up. That took ten minutes and then the phone rang with another vulture wanting a piece of the Estate I am looking after. They will not be phoning back.Laugh

It is good to be back in jolly old England again, my wife has to sometimes remind me places I have been. I once told someone I had not been to a certain small town in South America and my wife promptly got a photo off the wall of the two of us standing in the town square.Whistling So if you ask me if I have been somewere, I now answer, ya maybe.Laugh I do tend to remember scuba diving, sailing and river rafting and backpacking trips as I really loved those, but being a tourist wandering around the usual tourist trap locals, well they tend to all run together. I have seen a lot of castles in England but to much time has passed to tell you off hand which ones they were.Laugh I do hope for more train trips while the diner is in GB. I am lacking in my British Rail experience.

Time to hit the sack, Hope Meryl is asleep I am really tired and she can be so demanding.MischiefLaugh

Out of the Provincial Archives, it says last working steam loco out of Vancouver.

 

All the best to all.

 

 

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:16 AM

Hi Ed,

Thanks for moving the Diner!! I was just about to start writing the first post and you beat me to it!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:25 AM

So you thought Stephenson was an early railroader! Check this out:

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Steam-trains-railways/

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 AM

Here is a little bit about Stephenson:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Stockton-and-Darlington-Railway

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:39 AM

Some key dates in British railroading:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jan/15/transport.uk

The formation of the British Railways company:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/British-Railways

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:46 AM

Good Morning and happy July! Where did half a year go?

hon30critter
I was just about to start writing the first post and you beat me to it!

Sorry if there was any confusion, Dave. I had offered to host the diner back on Thursday then there wasn't much discussion after that other than one post between you and Ulrich.

This is a good look at 1959 track laying. They lay panel track then take up the pre-installed rails and then apply the 600 foot welded rail? Seems a bit unproductive don't you think?

 

I could do without the Blackpool pipe organ score {{Indifferent}}  (I love theater pipe organ music but it simply doesn't seem fitting here?)


 

Now how about that big British Fry-Up?

 Lyme_Regis by Edmund, on Flickr

I certainly wouldn't want to share a confined space, say hammering staybolts in a boiler, after me or me mate gulped down a plate of this!

I'll settle for some crumpets or an English muffin, thank you.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:51 AM

Dave - in legal terms, British Railways was never a company, but a department of the British Transport Commission, a public entity, which did not follow regular accounting procedures set for private enterprises. Any loss had to be covered by the government out of tax money. As the losses were becoming a budget threat, Britain did, what most other European railroads did a few years later as well - abolish steam traction, cut-down on services, reduce the network. Like in all other European countries, this did not show the attempted benefits.

Btw, I wrote my thesis on the privatization of state-owned railways.

Back from my visit to the eye doctor - all is good, I just need to be more patient!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:05 AM

gmpullman
Sorry if there was any confusion, Dave. I had offered to host the diner back on Thursday then there wasn't much discussion after that other than one post between you and Ulrich.

Hi Ed,

I missed your offer to open the Diner so the error was on my part. No problem! Thanks again for doing it.

I like the look of that breakfast!DinnerSmileYes

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Lazers on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 5:21 AM

Tinplate Toddler

Dave - in legal terms, British Railways was never a company, but a department of the British Transport Commission, a public entity, which did not follow regular accounting procedures set for private enterprises. Any loss had to be covered by the government out of tax money. As the losses were becoming a budget threat, Britain did, what most other European railroads did a few years later as well - abolish steam traction, cut-down on services, reduce the network. Like in all other European countries, this did not show the attempted benefits.

Btw, I wrote my thesis on the privatization of state-owned railways.

Back from my visit to the eye doctor - all is good, I just need to be more patient!

Hi Everyone, and welcome to the UK. It is nice to have you visit us, again. It is 11:15 and outside, tipping it down and the winds have swung back round from the north. Our GCH is running - in July!  So I think I may feel like a 2nd helping of Full English Breakfast, at lunchtime. John had me fooled about his visit, albeit I did wonder how he being allowed to holiday before the Hotels open on the 4th of July (Independance Day)

Ulrich, British Railways as a Nationised entity since 1948, was what most people knew of, up until it's being franchised into separate Railway companies in the 1990's. My own research has brought me to firmly believe that Britains Railways would have been far better left alone as the big 4 private companies, GWR, LMS, LNER & SR. They may have required Goverment assistance, but our Rail Network would have survived far more intact had Nationalisation not provided a Lever for certain types to weald their Axe. Their attitude towards and the damage they inflicted on the BR network - is what led me (personally) to commence modelling USA Railroads.

Anyway, have a nice stay. I pressume in Cyber-world all the museums and preserved Railways are open. We missed our June holiday in North Wales, where their are some great little Narrow Gauge lines. Paul

"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:32 AM

Good Afternoon!

Too late for lunch, but the right time for some coffee and a piece of cake!

Good news on the home searching front. We have found a nice and cozy 1-bedroom apartment in a quiet street in Görlitz. We have set up a date to have a look at the place on July 13th, so we will hop in our car on the 12th to drive those 400 miles down there! I will try to set up other visits around that date, so we will have options available.

Lazers
My own research has brought me to firmly believe that Britains Railways would have been far better left alone as the big 4 private companies, GWR, LMS, LNER & SR. They may have required Goverment assistance, but our Rail Network would have survived far more intact had Nationalisation not provided a Lever for certain types to weald their Axe.

Paul, I am in total agreement to your statement! The same happened here! The total cost of all of the various operations have gone up drastically, as each separate entity maintains a costly, but mainly useless overhead. Another result is that hardly any of the managers has railway experience, both in the sense of technical and commercial implications. The result? Ticket pricing through the roof, trains overbooked and running late, customer service non-existing, demotivated staff and angry passengers!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 7:34 AM

North American railroading is brutally market price driven nowadays. In effect the rail bed infrastructure has been converted into a public utility, de facto through track sharing contracts, even though remaining in private ownership whereas motive power and rolling stock is privately owned and operated. This is, in effect, the current UK business model. Track is a public utility and operations are private. 

Steam power was rendered uneconomic by steeply rising operational labour costs combined with very cheap refined petroleum fuels. Still absurdly cheap motive power energy.

Passenger rail traffic became uneconomic about the same time as passenger ship traffic for much the same reasons. It remains a very expensive way to move people. Why? Because people just aren't heavy enough, even with modern diets. Nor are they dense enough despite some strange behaviour patterns associated with density, of intellect at any rate. 

Like container ships and ULCC ships, railroads are about weight movement and transhipment costs. Containers and unit trains.

Anyone familiar with the shipment of oil by rail can immediately understand the economics of current railroading. For those not so familiar with this crazy way of transporting oil just imagine the ultimate oil tank unit train. With enough motive power in theory the unit train could be as long as from here to Vancouver....  We already have such unit trains: they're called pipelines. The ends of the tank cars have been removed and the tank shells all welded into a continuous train. The trucks and couplers are redundant  and so is the track.  Even the ROW is cheaper since grades and river crossings are pretty much irrelevant. Motive power is provided by stationary pumps and gravity.

Railroads cannot transport passengers cheaply enough because it is impossible to pack them tight enough or containerize people efficiently enough. A bus is a more efficient container and a car even more so because roads are more flexible (although still very heavily subsidized with public money) . Airplanes are now so cheap to run (crew of two, just like a passenger train) the railroad cannot compete. 

We can enjoy the historical aspects of passenger trains, indeed my personal favourite models, but those days are gone and the future of passenger rail transport is in considerable doubt. Too expensive and too inflexible. And I love riding them when I'm in Europe even at the current prices they are a bargain. 

If you doubt that check out the pricing of transcontinental passenger travel in North America:

https://www.rockymountaineer.com/find-package

 

That's what the private unsubsidized market currently charges for train travel on this continent  

 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 8:31 AM

Strange thoughts to be voiced in a model railroading forum, I must say! I fully disagree to what you say. Train travel still is the most economical and environmentally friendliest way of moving goods and people, especially when electricity drives the trains. If car drivers and airline passengers would be charged the real cost incurring to a society, there would hardly be a car on the road nor an air service.

Back to British trains!

Here is a short video on the 15" gauge Ravenglass & Eskdale Rlwy.! It´s not a toy train, but a public railway running on a timetable for the general public!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:07 AM

I loved the Rocky Mountaineer, but it is hardly commuting, business travel nor inter-city transportation.

As rail travel and interstate highway grew, development followed the highways.  The car culture is big in the US.  Acquiring land for a high speed rail line is cost prohibitive.  Even low speed lines are expensive to build in the US. 

I don't know that the rails are a public utitlity.  I am sure Amtrak pays trackage fees to CSX in my area but passenger traffic is often slowed by freight traffic and it is not a smooth ride.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by York1 on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:26 AM

Good morning!  I've waited a while for this, so Chloe, I'll have a full English breakfast.  I'd also like lots of black coffee.

Paul, I apologize for the misleading post.  I was thinking of the diner move.  I only wish it was a real-life vacation to the UK.

Not much going on here.  It's bill-paying day, but that takes about five minutes.  The rest of the day is open.

Last year, my daughters and families all began their European tour in the UK.  They then moved on to France riding the train in the tunnel.  I should have gone with them.

York1 John       

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:37 AM

BigDaddy
I am sure Amtrak pays trackage fees to CSX in my area but passenger traffic is often slowed by freight traffic and it is not a smooth ride.

In my country, it is the other way around - freight trains get ditched for passenger trains.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:55 AM

Good morning ..

Ed .... Thanks for the move to UK, and thanks to all who contributed so far. ..... I have a few things I can contribute this month, and I will do so when I can.

 

Bret .... I can image what Bear could do with that last photo. He could make a Bear Toon like "That big airplane is sticking out its tongue."  

 

I'll be back later. 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:56 AM

I'd be suprised anyone is taking the risk to travel overseas right now with the pandemic going on!  ..  Or if this is a "virtual" visit, I'll have a real scones or British food instead of imaginary since my wife is a Brit.  She makes real Yorkshire pudding pretty often.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:11 AM

Ah yes, lovely to relax, put your feet up (sort of, it's a tight fit for me) and travel that tiny (but very real) train after the climb over from Wastwater. I was born in Lancashire (when Silverdale was not part of Lancashire) and I have a photo of me at about age 2 clambering up some valley in the "real" Lake District. I have an Aunt who lives near Gosforth so the R&E railway is very familiar to me. Many times visited that lovely part of the World  

Beg pardon if I posted something too controversial to this thread. I'm new here. 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:56 AM

Lastspikemike
Beg pardon if I posted something too controversial to this thread. I'm new here.

No harm done. We enjoy differing opinions, when voiced with due respect!

I rode the RH&D Rlwy, back in 1973 and it was a tight squeeze as well. Getting my 6´4" inches hulk stowed away properly took some effort.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by drgwcs on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:06 PM

I had noticed in the old diner yesterday that Kevin (See you 190) was heading back from Ohio. Where were you headed through? If going through Columbus you have to stop at the Train Station on Indianola Ave and Robbie's Hobbies as well. Which way are you headed back?

 

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:09 PM

Good morning from a cool wet West Coast. I am stalling before I tackle the bathroom project today, I am on my third mug of coffee.Coffee I have done lots of reno's with no issues, this one on the other hand.....?

Kevin, you were right to leave the gathering considering what is going on. We are going through similar issues as someone was pushing to rent out a restaurant  for a celebration of life for the close friends of this lady whose Estate I am looking after. So far not one person out of the 63 she has asked  thinks this is a good idea and not one said they will attend. The lady that passed on was heavily involved with the church to a point where the head of her church for BC will conduct her service at some point. It will be a huge service and has now been put off till spring. Not sure what kind of cheque I'll be writing for it, but it won't be cheap. I am glad people have brains enough to turn this ladies restaurant idea down.

Darwinism at work. My daughter recently showed me an article connected to one of her Anthropology courses suggesting when things went from survival of the fitess to survival of the smartest, where brain power started to take over from physical might in determining who survives. It was pretty interesting to read.

All my family on all sides comes from England, my wife immigrated when she was six, my Mom when she was two in 1921. My earliest relatives arrived in Canada to the Swan River Valley in Manitoba in the late 1700s ( I was born in Winnipeg) and some are traced to what is now Virginia even earlier. I have the photo albums of all the Grandparents and great Grandparents that include a lot of RR pics of British steam. I'll have to dig them out and scan a few.

Best get to the reno work, the sooner I am done the sooner I can unwrap the layout, I sure miss watching my trains run, plus I have the completed water tower to add.

All the best to all and happy Canada Day!

Image may contain: sky, cloud, outdoor and nature

 

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by herrinchoker on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:28 PM

ED,

Good move,  feet wet ??

Ulrich,

Had my lenses replaced in my eyes, the left one was folded in the process of being implanted. Now it is like looking through a pile of birch branches. I got used to it----Perhaps at some point I will have a re-doo.

3.6 inches of rain the last 36 hrs., more to come today, garden needs it. River full of striped bass at present, wife is nagging for some fresh fish, sooo----. Don't go plug fishing with a retriever---

Hope all have a safe, sane Fourth---

Prayers for those in need, best to all.

herrinchoker

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:37 PM

I treated myself to a goodie today! To celebrate my 5 years of being a non-smoker and my in 7 weeks upcoming birthday I ordered a Lego set of the famous Swiss Federal Railways Ce 6/8 II, better known as the "Crocodile". It was released today and is exoected to be sold out quickly.

I just got the confirmation that  it is on its way to my doorstep, but I won´t be able to open the box before Aug. 19th! Crying

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by howmus on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:40 PM

BATMAN

 

Image may contain: sky, cloud, outdoor and nature

Hmmmm, Is that the province of Muskrat?  That sticks well, I think!

Say Ulrich, Here is a nice little country place for you...  Naw, you can't have it!  That is my son's place in England.  Well out in the countryside and well protected from all kinds of dis-eases and such.  They have a nice local pub where they have been able to get takout for the duration and the pub owner always includes a couple pints with the meal for free.....  The house is somewhere between 400 and 600 hundred years old I think.  He is lucky to be working from home via Zoom so he doesn't have to travel anywhere near London at the moment.

I will see what he might be able to provide in terms of some of the trains he has been on over there.....

73

Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO

We'll get there sooner or later! 

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Posted by Lazers on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:01 PM

York1
Paul, I apologize for the misleading post.  I was thinking of the diner move.  I only wish it was a real-life vacation to the UK.

Hi John, no need to apologise, I thought it was a bit of fun. I hope you enjoyed your Breakfast. Smoked Herring (Kippers) are a UK breakfast special and when you are in Scotland, try some Haggis or Porridge - the Scottish way, add salt only!

As for Beers, you are totally spoilt for choice. Black Sheep, Theakston's Old Peculiar, John Smiths, Trophy, Camerons, Whitbread, Newcastle Brown Ale, Mcewan's Export + all the speciality craft beers that have have emerged from 'Micro Breweries', in recent times. All of these may take some getting used to, however.

Hi Ulrich, thanks for your support in my letting-off steam. But it saddens me whenever I see abandoned Railways/Railroads from anywhere around the world. I see it as a way of life, destroyed. My - how Lego models have changed since I was a 60's kid. No knobbley bits to attach other bricks to. Happy times. Paul

"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:38 PM

Beaverlodge. Muskrats live in muddy holes in the banks of rivers or lake shores. The industrious beaver builds a lake and then a lodge with an underwater entrance only. To catch a beaver in his lodge the predator has to hold its breath for a very long time, and, as it comes up inside the lodge, nose first, the beaver will be waiting.....

Alyth Yard

Canada

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