DC and DCC Operation?

[PRR8259]

I have never installed a decoder in any locomotive or any other item, and I never will.

In fact, I'm far more likely to remove them in the future.

John

[7j43k]

RR_Mel

 

I guess there are a few of us running in dual mode, I was beginning to think I was an only again.

 

Mel

 

 

 

 

 

I built the (still unfinished) test track layout about 2002.  I'd been out of model railroading for about 20 years.  But I still had my old stuff packed up.  I wasn't at all comfortable with that newfangled DCC stuff that had been developed while I was "gone".  So I put in block toggles (23) in the old style.

Over the years I succumbed to Progress, and now pretty much every new loco has sound and DCC (except for my new/old NCNG 2-8-0).

But I still have more straight DC stuff.  So allowances must be made.  In my defense, I will point out that I HAVE installed a few straight decoders in the old stuff and even put DCC/sound in my brass gas-electric.

So, yup, I'll be "dual mode" for a long ways into the future.

 

 

Ed 

[RR_Mel]

7j43k

 

But I thought that was exactly what I was describing in the immediately preceding post.

How is it different?

 

 

Ed

 

Sorry Ed, I just missed seeing your post.  I guess there are a few of us running in dual mode, I was beginning to think I was an only again.  I seem to be out in left field with most of my adventures.    

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

            

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[7j43k]

RR_Mel

 

 

Thanks for your input guys!  I guess I’m the only one using dual mode on a layout.

 

 

Mel

 

 

 

 

But I thought that was exactly what I was describing in the immediately preceding post.

How is it different?

 

 

Ed

[PRR8259]

My mainline is only one block, and I have run multiple trains in plain dc.  That is when it gets exciting and I have to be attentive with opening and closing passing sidings.  I call that fun.

Also I am using the same track for both modes of operation.  It is a simple flick of a switch on the Tech 6.

All turnouts are power routing.

Right now I only am running one Athearn challenger, as other high end stuff sold...

[OldSchoolScratchbuilder]

It will be mostly DC for me with a bit of DCC as explained in another thread so I won't repeat here. I buy high-end rolling stock and die-cast vehicles with my limited retirement budget so the two expensive DCC locomotives I have are enough. DJ

[G Paine]

RR_Mel

I was just wondering if there are others out there running dual mode, DC and DCC.

I have been running this way for a number of years for the same reason. I want to be all DCC, but have a number of locos that I have yet to install decoders.

I keep the DCC simple. Only one power district, and no DCC devices like reversing modules or circuit breakers. The power feed is with a DPDT switch which selects either my DCC commend station or DC power pack.

When I was planning this, I read an article warning that DCC devices do not like DC power, and can get fried if exposed to DC.

A few months ago, when turning on DCC track power, a short circuit warning came from the system. I checked for tools on the track and derailed rolling stock and found no problem. I switched to DC, and tripped the power pack circuit breaker as soon as I advanced the throttle. Next I started cutting buss wires around the layout, but could not isolate the short. Finaly, I unplugged the Loconet from the commend station, and the short went away. The problem was with one of the throttle plugs on the fascia. Digirtax has a light on the plug mofule that turns on with track power, and one of them had developed a dead short. I removed the wire that connects to the track power to all the throttle plugs, and will not use it any more. No problems since then

[RR_Mel]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

Mel, not being critical, but 10 mainline blocks seems like a lot for a layout of that size?

My current layout under construction will have a 350' run of double track mainline and staging for about 30 trains but will only require 16 mainline blocks. I run long trains and blocks are typically 20-30 feet long. 

For me, sound is a non starter in HO. I tried it, I bought a couple locos. I have lots of friends with DCC and sound on their layouts. 

 

Sheldon 

 

Sheldon

 

When I did my original design over 30 years ago I had several have to haves, more than one operating train at a time was not on the list.  At the time I didn’t have any idea that I would end up with DCC.

 

The available space was too small for a larger layout so I settled for a 14’ x 10’ layout. I built it on casters so that it could be moved around in our two car garage.

 

I have a continous dual oval with a 3½% grade forming double tracks near the front of the layout consisting of about 110’ of mainline.  Percentage wise my 10 blocks are reasonably close to your larger layout at roughly 11%.  It has worked out well on DC for 30 years and very nice on DCC since 2005.

 

As most of us do I eroded in my original design, I didn’t plan on future expansion.  I should have included more hidden sidings long enough to store full length trains.  With my 30 year old single train DC design I can only run one train at a time.  It would be nice if a passenger train entered a tunnel on one side of my layout and one of several different trains emerged from a tunnel on the other side.  I have one long siding (12”) that will hold one train but two would have been much better.

 

I use DPDT center off toggles for block control but rarely use them.  The blocks are used primarily for my signaling system occupancy detection.

 

I too bought into Modeltronics sound, it was better than no sound.  Over the years I also went with a couple of power pack sound systems and realistically the Modeltronics was much better.

 

Currently I have a mix of sound decoders, I have had really good luck with the newer MRC 1700 series decoders using 1" high bass response speakers.  The Soundtrax Cab Froward decoders have fabulous sound!

 

I only have three Soundtrax decoders and they are installed in spare SP oil tenders.  I have 18 operational SP articulateds and I swap the tenders around so that I can have a variety of locomotives with sound.  The MRC 1730 (diesel) decoder works great for good EMD567 sound, the 1731 (steam) works for everything except the SP articulateds.  I use Digitrax decoders in my Shays.

 

Thanks for your input guys!  I guess I’m the only one using dual mode on a layout.

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

            

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[7j43k]

On my test track layout, it's wired in "the old style", with DPDT toggles for each block.  One cab is DCC.  The other is DC.  It's double track, and one track has been DCC and the other DC for a good many years.

I just recently accidentally plopped an RS-3 that was still DC onto the DCC track.  It made funny noises and I shut it down.  Still worked fine on DC.  I then put the decoder in.  And, again, it worked fine on DCC.

I have yet to put a DCC equipped loco on DC trackage, so I can't report on that event.

 

 

Ed

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

PRR8259

YES.

I would prefer to use plain dc, but most better engines, and even the newest brass, come with dcc.

To be able to access all features, or at least most, I have to use the MRC Tech 6.  It works great though my throttle is getting a little worn and sometimes engines dont want to come to a complete stop as a result.

I do not care for dcc, but it is a necessary evil.  I like being able to occasionally change cv settings.  I like being able to change whistles, etc.

I especially like that the better engines now run every bit as well in plain dc, though sound and light control is not there.

John

 

Just one more reason I would never spend that much on a loco, or consider it an investment. When I do get a loco with a decoder, I remove them........resale value will never limit or control the way I have fun with my trains........

But, I have only "sold off" three locos in 50 years......and even though it was plastic, one was sold at a considerable profit. Not bought as an investment, but sold when I decided it was not a brand I prefered and it was not needed for the roster.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

And so simple fact remains, for the time being, if you want onboard sound, DCC is your only real choice.

Mel, not being critical, but 10 mainline blocks seems like a lot for a layout of that size?

I run DC with an advanced cab control system design similar to Ed Ravenscroft's MZL control. It generally cuts the number of actual blocks in half by automating some power routing based on turnout position. What would often require a seperate block for an interlocking is fully automated by route selection

My current layout under construction will have a 350' run of double track mainline and staging for about 30 trains but will only require 16 mainline blocks. I run long trains and blocks are typically 20-30 feet long. 

For me, sound is a non starter in HO. I tried it, I bought a couple locos. I have lots of friends with DCC and sound on their layouts. 

The poor sound quality is something I just cannot adapt to, they all sound like static on a 1968 9 transistor radio to me. 

I was the train department manager in a hobby shop when Modeltronics came out with their systems in the 1980's - not impressed then, not impressed now.

I realize that many out there like sound, and that some simply accept it as part of the direction the hobby is going. And that is fine. But I am perfectly happy with my fleet of quiet locos.

I have removed a number of decoders, sound and non sound, from DCC locos purchased at closeout prices. I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer radio throttles, and the pulse width output from them is not compatible with dual mode DCC decoders.

My layout includes CTC and signals, the signals and turnout controls are all intergrated into the cab control and CTC, so using the wireless radio throttles the experiance is very similar to DCC, especially with a dispatcher on duty. Engineers simply walk with their train and obey the CTC signals. If they run a red signal, their train stops, ATC (automatic train control) is also built into the mainline signaling/cab control.

Wireless throttles are for me way more important than any of the other features offered by DCC - and I have that with the Aristo Throttles.

So no real use for DCC here.

Sheldon 

[PRR8259]

YES.

I would prefer to use plain dc, but most better engines, and even the newest brass, come with dcc.

To be able to access all features, or at least most, I have to use the MRC Tech 6.  It works great though my throttle is getting a little worn and sometimes engines dont want to come to a complete stop as a result.

I do not care for dcc, but it is a necessary evil.  I like being able to occasionally change cv settings.  I like being able to change whistles, etc.

I especially like that the better engines now run every bit as well in plain dc, though sound and light control is not there.

John

[doctorwayne]

Strictly DC for me, as it's simple to use and offers everything I want for my layout.

Wayne

[floridaflyer]

If you have a positive on/off switch to operate either DC or DCC, but not partly DC and DCC it would work. Problems such as those mentioned occur when part of the layout is DC and other parts are DCC. 

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

This subject has been covered many times.

The consensus is the possibility of catastrophic damage to the DCC system and decoders is too risky.

Here are some previous threads that dealt with DC/DCC operations:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/254019.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/254241.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/250561.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/252559.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/226338.aspx

 

Hope this helps.

[ATSFGuy]

I like DCC operation better, more possibilities.

[richg1998]

Strictly DCC at home and the club I belonged to.

Our club wired in the early 1980's went to DCC some years ago. Fourteen blocks and one reverse loop. Four throttles. Each throttle was capable of three amps.

We tried a few blocks with DC and some with DCC. We had to have someone at the dispatchers panel. As old timers do, we would get to gabbing and one or two locos passed a DC/DCC boundry and wiped out the five amp NCE Booster. Never again.

If you are the only operator, probably not a problem.

Rich

[tstage]

Nope - Strictly DCC for me.  Started out with it at the get-go and have been very happy with it so far.  The only time I use DC is when I'm testing a brass locomotive with the idea of convertiing it to DCC.

Tom

[RR_Mel]

I was just wondering if there are others out there running dual mode, DC and DCC.  I have converted 17 locomotives to DCC and that leaves me with roughly 30 that I run in DC mode.  I rarely run more than one locomotive at a time mainly because when I designed and built/laid track back in the late 80s early 90s my planning was for only one train at a time.

 

My layout has roughly 120’ of mainline with a loop for reversing direction of a full train.  I have 10 mainline blocks with another 14 blocks for sidings, yard storage and my roundhouse and diesel shop.

 

I’m perfectly happy with my DC layout as built but I had and will always have this overwhelming need for sound and other gadgetry thus the addition of DCC.  I run my layout in DC mode about 70% of the time.  When the need for sound and or some gadgetry appears I cutover to DCC operation.  When I turn on my MRC 7000 the accessory power pulls in a relay to switch track power from my DCC controller to my DC power pack for DC operation.

 

I designed my layout in 1989 as shown in the picture below, I finished the track construction in 1991.

 

 

 

This is my dual mode control panel.

 

 EDIT:

 

I don't run DC and DCC simultaneously, one or the other.  I've been running dual mode for over ten years without a single problem.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

            

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.