BlueRail just released a page with information and specs on their first bluetooth plugin boards.
http://bluerailtrains.com/blue-horse/
1 1/8"x2 1/2"x3/16" for the board and may be ordered with the wires in place for battery.
Soo Line fan
4.2?!?!? I just upgraded to 3.0!
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Just saw a reveiw on MRH and having throttles lined up for different engines on an I-pad was kinda cool, also talked about using the dead rail points for a keep alive.
I was watching BlueRail's video's on their web site. Some of the video's are Bachmann. A few observations:
I cannot even see this product is going to get off the ground if they cannot match the available functions of DCC right from the start.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
You can have sound on your phone or via Bluetooth onboard for now, a separte sound part is coming. For now the sounds are generic but will be more custom soon (app upgrade). Android version due out very soon. Consisting is an app away. Basicly most of the things people are calling for are apps and unlike DCC decoders where you have to send it off for an upgrade, you will be able to download upgrades. So if someone writes the app, you can have your train sound like anything you like and you will be able to run as many trains as you like in consist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwtI_es42E0
Still not going to replace DCC. But consisting is out.
I looked through this topic and didn't see one response from the thread starter. Sometimes you have to wonder if people start topics just to sit back and watch the fur fly - like throwing a piece of meat into a shark tank and watching the frenzy. Gotta love this place!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
passenger1955 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwtI_es42E0 Still not going to replace DCC. But consisting is out.
Wasn't consisting originally going to be controlled automagically via some BEMF load reading? This is literally no different than DCC with JMRI right now. Instead of deadrail, you can use a keepalive.
Considering the learning curve for installing a decoder has always been the hardest part of going DCC, I don't see this taking off at all.
riogrande5761 I looked through this topic and didn't see one response from the thread starter. Sometimes you have to wonder if people start topics just to sit back and watch the fur fly - like throwing a piece of meat into a shark tank and watching the frenzy. Gotta love this place!
Look at the date the OP started this. About the time the EZ App was ANNOUNCED, with great fanfare, but ws not yet available. The real world may not be as rosey as the marketing material.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
riogrande5761 Bachman EZ app Will it obsolete DCC? *sigh*
Bachman EZ app Will it obsolete DCC?
*sigh*
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
riogrande5761Sometimes you have to wonder if people start topics just to sit back and watch the fur fly
So you're suggesting that:
Accually they have come a long way with new smaller boards available soon. Some of the early restrictions on the company have been lifted and they have 4 battery variations for sale now. Soon to be available is a board to be used with a DCC decoder. Still a long way to go but for a company this young, not bad.
rrinker Look at the date the OP started this. About the time the EZ App was ANNOUNCED, with great fanfare, but ws not yet available. The real world may not be as rosey as the marketing material. --Randy
Uh huh. Yes. Effect is still the same; a thread starter making a sweeping prediciton with little solid argument and never coming back in. Again, modus operandi.
Yes, put a fork in it.
riogrande5761 rrinker Look at the date the OP started this. About the time the EZ App was ANNOUNCED, with great fanfare, but ws not yet available. The real world may not be as rosey as the marketing material. --Randy Uh huh. Yes. Effect is still the same; a thread starter making a sweeping prediciton with little solid argument and never coming back in. Again, modus operandi. Yes, put a fork in it.
Who would have thought it? Bachman EZ app vs. DCC?
Why do I have a feeling of deja vu?
Yes,time to use a fork..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It is realy bluetooth vs all. New chips are less than 1/4 the size of the old ones from a year ago. They have micro motors to run couplers (seen them and they are small). DCC at some point will become a control chip, still very important though.
"I see a dark-haired stranger ...!"
Oops, sorry!
"I see Bachmann EZ App replacing complementing DCC..."
rrebell It is realy bluetooth vs all. New chips are less than 1/4 the size of the old ones from a year ago. They have micro motors to run couplers (seen them and they are small). DCC at some point will become a control chip, still very important though.
Here is the thing, for me and many others, using a touch screen device to control my trains is a non starter.
Don't own a smart phone, the tablet is too big, need/want one hand non visual controls (hard feel knobs or buttons), etc.
So bluetooth, 27Mhz, DCC, it matters not - what matters is the type/quality/design of the user interface.
Poor user interfece designs, un-necessary complexity and un-necessary costs kept me out of DCC, and will keep out of this.
Sheldon
Uh, you don't have to use your phone controls, their are others that work through bluetooth and it is just a mater of time before a dedicated thottle arrives.
I am afraid that, unless Bachmann is able to convince the big names in the game to adopt this system, it will stay a small, rather proprietary niche product - like many other attempts before.
The big names are not Athearn and Atlas, but Marklin with its brands Trix and LGB, Roco with Fleischmann, Hornby with Rivarossi, Jouef, Arnold and Elletren (Spain). Add to that the number of slightly smaller operations like Brawa, ESU (also marketing HO scale locos), Lenz, NMJ, Heljan,Jeco and a whole bundle of others, you can evaluate the scope Bachmann is facing to have it accepted as a replacement for DCC.
Marklin sales alone exceed those of the entire Kader Group, so chances are pretty slim, I´d say.
rrebell Uh, you don't have to use your phone controls, their are others that work through bluetooth and it is just a mater of time before a dedicated thottle arrives.
So if my Aristo throtttles all die, then I will see what us out there by that time. Most any radio throttle, direct radio or layout based, can fit right into my existing system.
Sir Madog I am afraid that, unless Bachmann is able to convince the big names in the game to adopt this system, it will stay a small, rather proprietary niche product - like many other attempts before. The big names are not Athearn and Atlas, but Marklin with its brands Trix and LGB, Roco with Fleischmann, Hornby with Rivarossi, Jouef, Arnold and Elletren (Spain). Add to that the number of slightly smaller operations like Brawa, ESU (also marketing HO scale locos), Lenz, NMJ, Heljan,Jeco and a whole bundle of others, you can evaluate the scope Bachmann is facing to have it accepted as a replacement for DCC. Marklin sales alone exceed those of the entire Kader Group, so chances are pretty slim, I´d say.
Ulrich, is Marklin publicly traded? How do you know their sales? None of the US companies are public, their sales figures are not known. We have no idea how big Athearn, Walthers, MTH, Bowser, or others really are.
Kader is public, so we do have some idea of cash revenues.
I know model trains are big in Europe and the UK, and I would not doubt or challenge the idea that those companies are bigger than the US companies, I have no knowledge either way.
But, I would suggest that larger or smaller, the US market is driven by a completely different set of factors. Considering how long it took for DCC to even reach 50-60%, the likelyhood of any new system gaining much market share is slim.
There is nothing about this hobby that demands keeping up with new technology.
The funny thing is, except for Brawa partnering with Lifelike for Proto2000 years ago, I only have one product from any of those other "world wide" companies. So their size, or market presence has no effect on me, or most US modelers.
So your more detailed thoughts on why the European manufacturers would be key to its growth would be interesting.
Sheldon,
although Marklin is not a publicly traded company, they have to publish their annual results. Their annual report is available in the Internet, and so is Kader´s.
The same applies for Roco, who owns Fleischmann since a few years now.
Model railroading is a much wider spread hobby in Europe than in the US, where it appears to be a niche hobby, mostly belittled by non-hobbyists. At least this is what I gather from comments here, including those dreadful "The hobby is dying" outbursts.
I think the reason why Europeans seem to be more into model railroading is the fact, that trains are much more apparent in every day life than in your country. I live within earshot of the mainline from the industrial hub area in the west of Germany to the port of Hamburg. On that line, railfanning during the weak is like following the flight of a tennis ball in a match. There are way over 250 trains a day during daylight hours alone! Also, places like "Miniatur Wunderland" have done a marvelous job in promoting the hobby. Shows like the famous "Ontraxs!" exhibition in the Dutch National Railway Museum in Utrecht draw growing crowds each year, boosting public awareness.
Brawa used to make accessories, but since a good 20 years now, they have entered the market of premium locomotives and cars, mainly of German prototype. Lovely models, but way toooo expensive for me!
You are right in stating that the US market is probably driven by a different set of factors and maybe these factors allow for Bachmann EZ App being established in the US market much quicker - or much slower. On a global basis, chances are quite different, though. Even in the UK, where Bachmann has established itsel to be the market leader, it will be quite difficult to successfully market the EZ App unless they are equipped with a standard NEM plug and fit into the space now occupied by a decoder. I doubt that a lot of people will rip out the decoder that comes with the loco to replace it with the EZ App device, though.
As I also lack the ability to foresee the future, I may be totally wrong, but looking at how long it took to establish DCC I have my doubts that I will live to see Bachmann´s gadget to take its place.
Sir Madog think the reason why Europeans seem to be more into model railroading is the fact, that trains are much more apparent in every day life than in your country. I live within earshot of the mainline from the industrial hub area in the west of Germany to the port of Hamburg. On that line, railfanning during the weak is like following the flight of a tennis ball in a match. There are way over 250 trains a day during daylight hours alone!
Ulrich,I can understand that..When I was station in Schweinfurt I would railfan near the Schweinfurt station and see a lot of trains and I recall seeing layouts in the various stations..IIRC you drop a mark into a slot and could watch the trains run.
I always like watching those diesel switchers with the side rods switch cars..
BRAKIEWhen I was station in Schweinfurt I would railfan near the Schweinfurt station and see a lot of trains and I recall seeing layouts in the various stations..IIRC you drop a mark into a slot and could watch the trains run
I am afraid those display layouts are long gone. Deutsche Bahn terminated the leases with the family business who built them and put them up for display. The reason? "Does not concur with the modern and dynamic image of today´s rail services" .
Lots of folks miss those layout, but who in the world is the customer who´s wishes we should recognise?
BRAKIEI always like watching those diesel switchers with the side rods switch cars
While not extinct, they have been long replaced by modern Diesel switchers. Some of them were sold to privately owned railways or industries to serve inhouse networks, but they are a rare sight.
Thanks Ulrich, very interesting. A few more thoughts.
I cannot imagine a private company disclosing their sales figures, that would never happen here, except when they are about to go public traded.
Yes, I can understand a lot of social reasons why model trains are more popular elsewhere in the world.
One big factor about the "nature" of the hobby here, without meaning to offend anyone, clearly by virture of the long time European preference for RTR equipment, compared to the relatively recent trends in that direction in North America, model railroading in North America has long been a craftsman "niche" hobby and has only recently branched out farther to people who may not have the time, skills or resources for that "deeper" involvement.
I have commented on this repeatedly over the years in conversations about product design, product quality and user expectations, and how those issues have changed, and continue to change in the US market.
Also the hobby is more complex here, because of the vastness of our rail system and its more complex history.
How many steam locomotive designs/types have existed on the DB? The PRR, or the B&O, or the UP each had 20 times, 50 times, or more, that number......times hundreds of seperate railroads. How do you acclimate the general public or casual user to that much information? Our own interest in higher accuracy and better modeling makes our hobby harder for others to relate to.
Another catch, many of the North American modelers who are most active, buy the most, build noteable layouts, are the least likely to support new products like BlueRail. They may use whatever is latest and greatest when they begin a layout project, but it typically takes 5-10 years for the "typical" (and yes around here they are typical) basement (or half basement) empire to be substantially complete. Once they invest in DCC, or Advanced Cab Control, or Computerized Block Control, most are not replacing that equipment........ever.
And these are people who help drive the market here with the volume of equipment needed to populate large and medium sized layouts.
Many such modelers only switched to DCC after it was well proven and full featured - that's why it took 25 years to even reach a 50-60% market share........
BlueRail will continue to attract small layout guys, new tech heads, etc, and that is good. But until a full featured, well tested, more affordable system is in place, it will remain a niche product, in a niche hobby.
I have yet to see a user interface or operational feature that would prompt me to put decoders/receivers in my 130 locootives. Blue rail receiver - bulk $55 x 130 = $7150 - it did not cost that much to build my entire cab control system, CTC, signaling, wireless throttles, turnout controls, etc.
And for all those who say "you don't have to convert everything", well I have no interest in a "hodge podge" of different stuff, I'm building a single complete "system".
ATLANTIC CENTRALBlueRail will continue to attract small layout guys, new tech heads, etc, and that is good. But until a full featured, well tested, more affordable system is in place, it will remain a niche product, in a niche hobby.
Sheldon,I would love to try BlueRail on a test layout and see what the fuss is all about but, as far as replacing my Tech 6 with BlueRail that's not going to happen because the majority of my engines is DC but, still I would like some hands on experience with BlueRail technology just to fill my curiosity .
I'm not sure Bachmanns plan is to capture 100% of the advanced DC/DCC modelers, I think there focus is twofold, 1. Attract young modelers into the hobby, and doing it by replacing the DC trainset powerpack and substituting this Bluetooth driven method of operating trains, as it is something the kids are very comfortable with. 2. Lower the cost of the trainsets by eliminating the powerpack and substituting these rather inexpensive boards.
With battery technology advancing the way it is, powered rails may very well be a thing of the past for new hobbyists in the future.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I've been following this enless thread since it started, and I have a question. I have a long stretch of track that is totally hidden under scenery, foam, and cardboard. Will blue rail "find" my loco in there?
Mike.
My You Tube