Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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  • From: Wausau Wisconsin
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, December 02, 2017 10:42 PM

Train No. 1102    -   1925

The only early catalog that I have is this one from 1925


My 1925 catalog is a black and white reprint so I don't know what color the No. 1102 is in the catalog, but I believe that my set is from 1925.  Does anyone have an original copy of the catalog in color?

The engine is a black 1096

There are two 5 1/2" 4 wheel #1120 Seattle coaches in green in the set.

Its a nice entry level set, and its amazing to think that it is 92 years old and runs like new.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, December 03, 2017 7:24 AM

Northwoods,

I have the cd rom with the catalog scans, which to my understanding was made using original catalogs.  The 1925 set 1102 shows a black 1096 engine with the red/maroon Seattle cars. 

The 1926 catalog shows the lithographed red/maroon 1096 with the later New Haven body (see below) that has the cast pantograph/headlight on roof and red/maroon Seattle cars.

Therefore, it appears that due to the body style of your engine, your set would date to 1925 or possibly early 1926 (as I believe the catalogs typically came out in the fall).

I know set 1102 was first cataloged in 1925, with the similar set using either the 1101 engine or 1095 engine (later years) was cataloged from 1922 through 1924. 

However, just because the catalog shows one color, with Flyer the colors certainly could have varied. 

The 1102 set in my collection matches the catalog, with black 1096 and red/maroon Seattle cars; however, I do not recall if it is a boxed set.

I know the colors varied in the late 1101 sets from 1924, as I have a set with brown 1095 and red/maroon Seattle cars and a set with black 1095 and green Seattle cars and have seen green 1095 engines.

NWL

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Posted by Heymrd1313 on Monday, December 04, 2017 9:25 AM

 Anyone wish to take a shot at the history of this 1218 ? I purchased it at a yard sale and the previous owner had no history or story to go with the engine. It is a dark ultramarine blue. I will let the photos tell the rest of the story.                          

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, December 04, 2017 3:41 PM

Heymrd1313

 Anyone wish to take a shot at the history of this 1218 ? I purchased it at a yard sale and the previous owner had no history or story to go with the engine. It is a dark ultramarine blue. I will let the photos tell the rest of the story.                          

 

 

I will take a stab at this.

Dark Blue is a known color for a 1218.  It is a very rare color, as the blue did not typically adhere well to the steel/paint. 

The one true blue 1218 I have seen in person, was a factory overpainted black body and unpainted steel roof.  The blue paint was 99% gone from the roof and at least 50% gone from the black overpainted body.

As for your engine.  I see some things wrong with it and will note them

1) big thing wrong, is that there is a post sticking up through the body behind the headlight.  Not sure what that is or how that is attached, but it is not normal.

2) your motor has reverse.  The 1218 engines did not come with reverse, therefore, the motor appears incorrect.

3) the 1218 numbering on the opposite end of the motor from the headlight, is large and appears incorrect for 1218 engines.  After taking a second look at this, there appears to be an unusual plate with this end number on, which possibly covers a second light bulb hole?  Not sure, but this is very unusual and incorrect.

4) I note the motor frame has brass journal boxes, which is incorrect for a 1218.  1218 frames were not punched for journal boxes.

5) Overall the paint looks too good, with very few chips/scratches.

These factors lead me to question the authenticity of your engine. 

NWL

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Posted by Heymrd1313 on Tuesday, December 05, 2017 8:05 AM

Thanks for the evaluation. So the engine is bits and pieces from here and there put together to make this one. I have a Frankenstein 1218 ? Big Smile

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Posted by Heymrd1313 on Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:56 AM

After reading the points made by NWL I decided to do a bit more checking of the engine. I can report these items.

1. The 1218 cover plate on the back of the cab came off pretty easy and it did cover up a hole. The hole was punched, not drilled, into the body at some point since there was a slight burr on the inside of hole. The type of burr that is created when metal is punched. There was no socket for a blub behind the plate hole. This holed may or may not be original to the cab.

2. Looking through the hole the inside of the cab body is visible and I did see some bear spots in the blue paint. The bare metal of the cab is visible in spots and I could see no evidence of any other color paint but the ultramarine blue. It did not seem to have been repainted or blue over another color.

3. The cab and frame were apart at some point and were reattached with flat top split rivets with newer couplers having been added.

4. I could see the end of the pole and it was left long and then the end was mushroomed to attach it to the cab.

One other point I did find. American Flyer did make a train set for Montgomery Ward it's #7010. They used a 1218 body but put a reversing motor in the cab body. So if the engine could talk it could tell us how it got and extra hole, a pole and a reversing motor. Sadly it can't, so it will remain THE 1218 FRANKENSTEIN.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:49 PM

Heymrd1313,

Thanks for sharing your 1218 Frankenstein, and your observations.  While it may not be an original American Flyer issue it certainly is an example of a model railroader's creativity.  One of its previous owners obviously put a lot of time into that project. From gathering the parts (from toy train graveyards?) to developing the concept and painting the carcass and assembling it all, the person who put it together was a real artist.  

Here are some photos of the #7010 that was marketed through Wards.  I have only seen it come in green.

This is a cover from the 1929 Montgomery Ward Catalog

And the page showing the trains for sale.

This is the #7010

I have never seen a boxed example of the Wards set, but I think this is a representation of what the set may have looked like.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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