Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by LL675 on Saturday, May 05, 2018 8:49 PM

just won this today

 

Dave

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:06 PM

I had a question come through Messages several days ago.   I thought I would share it and my answer with you.  It took me a little while to do the research

"Would you have a catalog picture of set 1721? I believe engine 3322 came with this set. I would also like to know how it was packaged in the box thanks for your time."

 

Set 1721(R)  appeared in only one catalog - 1936  on page 5

It is known as the Baltimore & Ohio - freight

It is headed by a Type VIII die-cast steam engine.  It is difficult to identify its number because it isn't identified in the catalog copy.  It has a firebox light but no ringing bell so it probably isn't a 3326, but it comes from the 32xx family (Type VIII boiler casting).

The set has a 3199 tender,  3207 sand car, 3216 lumber car, 3208 auto car (fancy name for a box car) and a 3211 lighted caboose.  I have not seen a boxed set so I can't help you with how the items went in the set box, but my guess is that each of the cars came in their own blue and yellow box of that era.

Do you have this set and its boxes?  What can you tell me about the set's history and how you  got it.

I hope this information helps.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:54 AM

Northwoods Flyer

I had a question come through Messages several days ago.   I thought I would share it and my answer with you.  It took me a little while to do the research

"Would you have a catalog picture of set 1721? I believe engine 3322 came with this set. I would also like to know how it was packaged in the box thanks for your time."

 

Set 1721(R)  appeared in only one catalog - 1936  on page 5

It is known as the Baltimore & Ohio - freight

It is headed by a Type VIII die-cast steam engine.  It is difficult to identify its number because it isn't identified in the catalog copy.  It has a firebox light but no ringing bell so it probably isn't a 3326, but it comes from the 32xx family (Type VIII boiler casting).

The set has a 3199 tender,  3207 sand car, 3216 lumber car, 3208 auto car (fancy name for a box car) and a 3211 lighted caboose.  I have not seen a boxed set so I can't help you with how the items went in the set box, but my guess is that each of the cars came in their own blue and yellow box of that era.

Do you have this set and its boxes?  What can you tell me about the set's history and how you  got it.

I hope this information helps.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

I think I may have a boxed set.  Will check tonight as I am at the office today.  

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:39 AM

Nationwidelines

Set 1721 R - B&O Freight set of 1936

 

So I have finally been able to answer a question that I have always suspected, but could never prove.  The question is "How was American Flyer Mfg. packaging (wrapping) their trains in the late Chicago era.  Specifically, I wondered if their freight cars came in individual boxes or were wrapped in paper?  I knew that the 6 inch cars, both passenger and freight, often were wrapped in paper or were found in cardboard sleeves with the engines typically having their own individual boxes.  The larger, deluxe streamliners always came with individual boxes for the cars. My question really stemmed from the fact that if one were to put individual boxes for freight cars into the set boxes, they would not all fit in the set box. 

Today, I am able to satisfactorily answer that question, the 9 inch freight cars came wrapped in paper.  I purchased a very complete set 1721 R from 1936 and when it came, the cars were wrapped in brown paper, with the paper having tape on it, from taping the paper around the car.  That in itself, was only a clue and in looking over the paper, I was able to find the car numbers for the log car, sand car, and caboose all rubber stamped on the pieces of paper.  I suspect the paper for the box car is not original and I did not get original paper with the tender either. 

As I indicated, the set was very complete, down to the original 3-in-1 oil sample bottle, wrapped in the the 3-in-1 American Flyer instructions.

Here are photos of the set, note I did not take pictures of the box, but it was very nice.

 

 

The set is a bit dirty at the present time and needs new drive wheels on the engine, but that will have to wait.

As an added bonus the set came with a tank car, that must have been a separate sale item purchased by the previous owner.

NWL

 

 

 

 

It seems that back in 2016, I answered the question.  Although I did not post pictures of the setbox, my above post notes that the individual cars were wrapped in paper, with their numbers rubber stamped on the paper wrapping.

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 6:59 PM

Just double checked my set.  The engine comes in its own box, numbered 3322 and the rest of the set is wrapped in brown paper.  

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, June 01, 2018 5:01 PM

I have been into Flyer advertising for quite some time and recently acquired some new items for the collection.  I thought I would use this opportunity to show some early newspaper and magazine ads.

This one is c. 1916-1917 from a Chicago newspaper

This one is dated 1917 and is from a magazine

I believe this one is c. 1921

This one is dated December 1922 and is from the Sunday Comics

A full page of the previous ad

This one is from 1923, again a Sunday Comic page

A 2 page from the Saturday Evening Post, I believe from 1925-1926

Another Sunday Comic, from 1926 or so

This one is c. 1927.  Something about selling so many subscriptions to get a free train.

Another subscription sales flyer, c. 1927 again

This one advertises a free train for selling perfume, from 1928.  At first I thought this was advertising the Oriental set, but the ad shows 1090 on the side of the engine.

Similar ad for same perfume company, just a larger picture of artwork.  Note the two sets differ slightly as one set includes 6 pieces of track and one includes 8 pieces of track.

 Here are two ads from the Detroit News c. 1928.  They are very unusual ads that feature a boy's name and address.  It is believed that these boys were winners of the Backyard Railroad Contest, as my understanding is that winners of this contest (which there were numerous) had to sign away some of their rights in order to accept their prizes (based on paperwork of a known winner, one William Clapper) 

 

NWL

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 01, 2018 10:33 AM

Here is a variation I have had for years, but never keyed in on the differing colors.  These cars are the unusual Potomac sized 3180 series cars that are painted in the Golden State colors.

Note the car on the left is more greenish in color and the car on the right is more blue in color.  I also noted that the car on the left has a 3282 plate instead of the 3182 plate.  I can only guess that these two differences signify slightly later production of the car on the left, as the true Golden State cars do change to a more greenish color in later years.

 

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 08, 2018 9:57 AM

Picked up some accessories this week!

 

 

 

 

 

 

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, July 09, 2018 5:00 PM

I'm Feeling Blue today

c. 1914

 

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 2:18 PM

I recently purchased an early American Flyer "Metzel" type motor with the 2-piece side rods and was astounded when it arrived with a set of unusual side rods.

I was expecting the engine to have the following style of side rods

However, the engine came with the following 2-piece side rods

 

The second set of side rods that were photographed are significantly different than the first set, in that the connecting piece is cast instead of made out of sheet metal, the sheet metal piece that attaches to the wheel is shorter, which requires the piston rod to be longer, and the sheet metal piece is not embossed.  Additionally, there is a cast piece around the portion that the pin sticks through to attach the rods to the wheel.  

In an effort to date these, I compared the motors that the rods are attached to.  First, I know that the all sheet metal 2 piece rods are on an engine that is in a verified 1908 boxed set, which features a 1907 328 tender with unpainted frame and a 4 window Chicago car, which is of the earliest design and has no spreader bar at the top of the car to hold the roof in place.  

Using this engine/motor as a basis for a starting point, I noted the following about the motor with the unusual 2 piece side rods:

1 The motor frame features 2 holes near the bottom of each end, which could be used to attach the clip for the clip-in motor design c. 1911 or after, or could be used to attach the brackets for holding the motor in the cast iron trolley body, c. 1910.

2 - I noted that the end of the brake lever is bent to the left (inward facing) instead of being bent to the right (outward facing).  All of the early motors in my collection feature the brake lever bent to the right, with late motors c. 1910 or after, featuring brake levers being bent to the left.  

Therefore, I conclude that these unusual 2 piece side rods must be a late variation, of which I was unaware of.  As these engines with 2 piece side rods are difficult to find, these late 2 piece rods with castings appear to be an even more unusual variation to find.

NWL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, July 13, 2018 9:49 AM

NationWideLines,

Great finds!  Thanks for posting them.  I am particularly envious of those boxed accessories. What a treasure trove.

Station Clock #220

Flyer cataloged the Station Clock as a separate sale item in 1930 -1932,

and in the #240 Equipment Set in 1933-1934.

 

I have been able to find the red and the green versions over the years.

 

I have seen a variation that mixes the two colors several times, but they have always eluded me. (Lets just say I was always outbid.)  At the Menards Toy Train Show in Eau Claire, Wi last weekend I finally snagged one at a very reasonable price.

Of course the collector gene in me is never satisfied.  Once I got it home I started to wonder if there is a variation with a green base and a red standard.  NationWideLines?  Ahhh, the  hunt never ends.

Here is a family photo.

If you check back on page 35 of this thread you will find some additional posts on the Station Clock. (Thanks again mersenne6 for compiling the index of accessories back a page.)

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, July 21, 2018 7:25 AM

Nationwide lines, awesome items especially with the boxes. 

How's the green top on your 4230 signal flasher? I have 2 with bad tops while already replaced one of them. I just need to paint it. 

Ray

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, July 21, 2018 7:31 AM

Northwoods, I've been looking for a nice clock for sometime now and they're hard to get in great shape let alone ok shape.  I too have been outbid so far, safe to say that I'm not the one outbidding you.

Ray

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, July 21, 2018 11:05 AM

The top of the green 4230 signal flasher is so-so.  There is some expansion/decay, but it is original.  

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, July 21, 2018 11:09 AM

AF53

Northwoods, I've been looking for a nice clock for sometime now and they're hard to get in great shape let alone ok shape.  I too have been outbid so far, safe to say that I'm not the one outbidding you.

 

 

Nice clocks are hard to find.  I purchased this one a few years ago to upgrade the one in my boxed equipment set.  I do not recall what I spent on it, but it was pricey.

 

NWL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, July 29, 2018 4:25 PM

An odd variation?

American Flyer 2218/4218 Block Signal

I just purchased this recently.  I have a number of these block signals and I wasn't really looking for another one, but this one caught my eye.

Can you identify what is different about it?

It isn't that difficult if you have ever tried to find a place for this signal on your layout between two tracks.  The signal sits on its base differently.  The signal is oriented on the long axis of the base instead of the typical mounting.

This one does not appear to be altered by a previous owner, but it could be, or it could be a factory error.  I thought I had seen a sketch of this signal somewhere, but I can't remember where.  In any case it fits much better between 2 tracks.

Does anyone have one like this?

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Northwoods Flyer

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 29, 2018 5:04 PM

I seem to recall seeing the variation before, but I don't know that I have one.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, August 10, 2018 11:31 AM

American Flyer 2206 Crossing Flasher Signal

Another Variation

This is the most common version that I have seen.

This variation with the blue light fixtures is less common.

I have seen this third variation in the photos in the Greenberg Guide, but I have never run across an example of it until now.

Like the 2218 Block signal shown above it sits on its base the long way.

And the family photo.

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Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, August 14, 2018 7:03 AM

American Flyer 2218/4218 Block Signal

I thought that I would update the family photo for the Block Signal.  These are the variations that I have.

I am still looking for a green version with the head on the left.

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Northwoods Flyer

 

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, August 17, 2018 9:28 AM

Here are photos of the long based cousins.

As I said before; the signals oriented on their bases this way makes it easier to position them between parallel tracks.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, August 17, 2018 10:34 AM

Northwoods,

Interesting observation on the base variations.  I guess I have never paid much attention to those variations.  

Here is another variation in bases.

 

Note that the base on the first watchtower is a square base that matches the color of the mast and the base on the second watchtower is rectangular.  Not sure of the reason for this difference.

NWL

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Posted by dougdagrump on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:37 AM

A few of the oldies out of the train storage closet. They still work !

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 11:25 AM

Hi Doug,

Its nice to see you here on the Pre War Flyer thread.  I'm used to seeing your posts on the Coffee Pot.

You have two Lionel #58 Goose Neck Lamp Posts and a #69 Lionel Ringing Bell Signal. Its always fun to rediscover the things you didn't remember you had stored away.

Flyer had their own version of ringing bell signals

 

and lamp posts

in the pre war era.

Thanks for posting.

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Posted by dougdagrump on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:47 PM

Hi Gregg.

My BetterHalf surprised me some years back with a prewar Lionel set and those happened to be in the same trunk. Unfortunately time has really taken a toll on the set. The engine wiring insulation is disintegrating as well as other problems with the cars.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:28 PM

Doug,

Is that at #252?  I have a smattering of pre war Lionel in the collection, but I am by no means an expert.  I justify owning Lionel by telling myself I should have some examples of the products of the other manufacturers for comparison. Wink

You know you could get that engine repaired and get it running as part of your Heritage Fleet.

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Northwoods Flyer

 

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American Flyer Trains

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Posted by LL675 on Thursday, August 23, 2018 12:22 PM

good excuse Greg.....Whistling

Dave

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Posted by dougdagrump on Thursday, August 23, 2018 5:38 PM

Greg, You are correct as to that being a 252, believe it was designated as Olive Green model( just had to use the olive green text). If memory is correct these were in production from 1931+/- til 1936. Hopefully one of these years I'll break down and get the whole set refurbished, the loco has seen rough times as well as the passenger cars that make up the set. The outer box is in pretty good shape for it's age but the inner boxes are missing some end flaps but are still legible. It will give me something to do when I get older. Whistling

By the way, were you able to find a repair person for I believe it was a circus AF ? 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, September 08, 2018 6:27 PM

After searching for years, I finally found the following tender on ebay last week.

If you are wondering what is special about the tender, note the unpainted frame.  This signifies that it was made in 1907 and is the earliest of Flyer production.  I needed the tender to go with my 1907 engine and 1907 passenger car (which also has an unpainted frame).

I do have the following 1907 tender variation in my collection

Unfortunately, it is with another very early 1908 set and I could not bear to separate it to put it with my 1907 set, so I had to find another.  

I am just glad that I found both the red and blue variations.

NWL

 

 

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Posted by silentman on Sunday, September 16, 2018 9:22 AM

Hey folks, quick question and this looked like the right thread. AF 9900 clockwork complete set with box. Was interested in buying from a gentleman and was just looking for a ballpark on its value? Sorry no pics but is in pretty good shape best I can tell. Thanks in advance

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, September 16, 2018 2:49 PM

silentman

Hey folks, quick question and this looked like the right thread. AF 9900 clockwork complete set with box. Was interested in buying from a gentleman and was just looking for a ballpark on its value? Sorry no pics but is in pretty good shape best I can tell. Thanks in advance

 

Hard to say without examining it.  I would guess in the $100 to $300 range, depending on condition of set and condition of box, also assuming the windup engine works.

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