Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:39 PM

LL675

Got this car in the deal too, would it have gone with the Royal?

It's had a repaint, but it looks like it was a dark grey? under neath.

The Royal Blue does have a baggage car.  Its the #494

It also had a #490 Whistling Baggage Car in Blue

The #490 also came as a separate sale item in grey.  It looks like you have the body and the frame for a #490 in grey.

Port Lines is a good source for parts.  Does Jeff Kane handle some Flyer too?  

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by jdet1 on Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:40 PM

Looks like the remains of a 390 Whistling Baggage car.  I did come in grey and blue.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, July 26, 2017 6:57 AM

Resurrection!  This thread went for a month with no posts, what is wrong? 

I came across an oddity recently and had to purchase it. 

The following picture shows a common 3103, which features the 3103 number plates on the site and the cast iron cow catchers mounted to the frame.

Next up is the still somewhat easily found red 3110.  This engine uses the same cab, features 4 American Flyer brass plates, and a steel frame that is rubberstamped 3110 on the bottom.

 

Lastly is the unusual version that I found.  Red 3110 mounted on a 3103 type frame with cast iron pilots.  Could this be something that someone modified at home?  At first glance one might think so, but the bottom of the frame is rubber stamped 3110 and Sold as Shopworn, so this is definitely a factory piece.

NWL

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by LL675 on Sunday, July 30, 2017 1:22 PM
beautiful engines!

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

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Posted by mersenne6 on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:12 PM

A Variation of #630 - the tinplate Hiawatha

   I purchased a nice tinplate Hiawatha passenger set awhile back and, at the time I noted the tin stamped superstructure of the locomotive was not parallel to the drivers. I assumed the motor had just been incorrectly installed.  However, when I turned over the engine and started looking at how it was held in place I realized the motor mounts are different from others I’ve seen and the motor itself has electrical reverse – something I’ve never seen on a #630.
The side view of this engine shows screws in the forward holes where one usually sees rivets and there are no paint abrasions to the rear holes where one would usually find screws for securing the rear mounting brackets. Figure 1 is a side shot comparison of this engine (left) and a regular #630 (right).

 

Figure 1
 
  Instead of the usual riveted in place sheet metal brackets an examination of the underside of this engine reveals only a stamped U shaped bracket which, at the bottom part of the U, has two sheet metal bends (actually just two rectangular ears) which fit around the front sheet metal of the motor frame. A single screw on one side of the bracket threads into the motor frame and two other screws attach the bracket to the front part of the sheet metal superstructure. The shape and mounting of the bracket is such that if any of the screws work loose the bracket will shift and the front part of the engine shell will droop - which is the condition in which I received this engine. 
  A comparison of the usual motor mount brackets (Figure 2)of #630 (right) and the motor mounts of this engine ( left) suggests the reason for the change is the existence of the automatic reverse since that unit would not have cleared the rear motor mount bracket.
 Figure 2
 In addition to the bracket the engine has a front mounted lead weight and a headlight bracket held in place by a single screw which is accessible through the shell smoke stack. 
 Figure 3
 
  The light bracket is vertical which means the headlight does not protrude from the front of the engine but is completely inside the shell.  Its position makes it almost impossible to replace the light without unscrewing the entire bracket from the engine shell. (In a side discussion about this engine Nationwidelines indicated he has seen other 630 engines with this kind of light bracket.)
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:38 PM

Nationwidelines
 
Nationwidelines
 
Otis B. Drinkwater

I researched the Edmonds-Metzel company a bit more, but I have to say that the information prior to 1907 is very scarce. The best source I found was the "Michigan Alumnus, Vol 5, May 1899" It contains the following: " Jay D. Edmonds - (18)96 after graduating spent 2 years as Chief Draftsman at Chicago Screw Co. then was a Mechanical Engineer at Fischer Equipment Co., Chicago until last fall (1898), when he joined with William E. Metzel to form Edmonds-Metzel Mfg. Co. at 253 S. Canal Street, Chicago. Makers of "Perpetual Bicycle Pedal"

 

Researching the bicycle pedal I found the following on www.speedplay.com

 

" 1899 Edmonds and Metzel invent the cylinder bicycle pedal (Aerolite Type)"

 

I found a small blurb in a Chicago City Directory - Edmonds-Metzel Mfg, 778-784 W. Lake Street - Die Paper Cutters, no date found

 

I also found advertisements in 1905 era Popular Mechanics for their wrenches that listed an address of 163-173 Jefferson Street.

 

So they were certainly moving around a bit in the early years. 

I know that William Ogden Coleman is reported to have gained control of the company in the 1906-1907 timeframe and the address associated with Edmonds-Metzel and American Flyer Trains is 1088 Wilcox Avenue.

O.

 

 

 

 

Time to update the above post, as I researched and found more information.

The earliest reference that I could find was in a Michigan Alumni reference from 1899.  It listed Jay Edmonds as either an 1895 or 1896 graduate, who worked for a metal company in Chicago for 2 years after graduation and forming a business with W. E. Metzel the prior year (1898).
 
Next reference was for Edmonds and Metzel inventing the perpetual bicycle pedal in 1899.
 
In the 1899-1900 Annual Report of the Factory Inspector, I found a listing for Edmonds, Metzel, and Cole MFG at 253-255 South Canal Street.  Indicates that the business was inspected March 4, 1900. 
 
The same report from 1900-1901 lists same company name and address.
 
I then found a reference in The Iron Age publication of May 23, 1901 that lists a name change to remove Cole.
 
The Iron Age of November 28, 1901 shows an advertisement for the bank they produced and lists an address of 778-784 West Lake Street.
 
The Inland Printer of November 1902 on Page 284 advertises a Multiplex Press Punch for punching holes in paper.  The advertisement indicates that the item is patented and lists the West Lake Street address again.
 
The Engineering Magazine, Volume 24 indicates that Mr. A. R. Sheppard is announced as Secretary and Treasurer of Edmonds Metzel.  Not sure of the exact date of this, but it appears to be sometime in the 1901-1903 era.
 
Modern Machinery from February 1904 indicates that Edmonds Metzel announced they were moving from Lake Street to 159 S. Jefferson Street. 
 
The move was again announced in The Metal Industry, Page 64 from April 1904, where it was announced the new address was 159 South Jefferson Street.
 
The American Machinist of January 28, 1904, Vol 27, page 14, advertises Edmonds Metzel MFG "We manufacture on contract all kinds of hardware and electrical specialties, dies, tools, stamping, and experimental work"  There was no address listed for the company in this address.
 
After that the trail goes a bit cold.  I could not specifically nail down when the company moved to the Wilcox Avenue/Street location.  It could be that the move was when Mr. Coleman took control of the company. 
 
NWL
 

 

 

 

A bit more about Edmonds Metzel.

After my latest posting, a friend asked me if I knew what happened to William E. Metzel.  He indicated that he knew of Jay Edmonds going on to a successful career in the industry after exiting Edmonds Metzel MFG.

I am not positive that this is the same William E. Metzel, but the facts seem to correlate.  In early 1907, a William E. Metzel is listed as one of the founders of the Indestructible Steel Wheel Corporation, which built a plant in Lebanon, Indiana.  He is listed as the Vice President.  I find listings for him being associated with the company as late as November 1908.

I then found a death notice for a William E. Metzel of 1438 Windsor Avenue in the Tuesday March 30, 1909 Chicago Tribune.  From what I could gather, as I was not reading the entire story without paying, William E. Metzel was stricken with heart failure at his residence at 1438 Winsor Avenue the prior Thursday and died on Sunday at the Kenilworth Sanitarium.  He was 35 years old and had been married to Mabel (Best) Metzel for 9 months.

In the "Mutual Interests" (seemingly an insurance publication) June 1909 edition I found a note for a death claim (insurance claim) for William E. Metzel, who was listed as a manufacturer from Chicago.  The claim amount was for $2,500.

So it would seem that the Mr. Metzel died shortly after his exit from Edmonds Metzel MFG.

 

NWL

 

 

This seems to correlate with the above facts.  The following headstone is found somewhere within the Rosehill Cemetery, Chicago, IL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, August 17, 2017 9:17 PM

Nationwidelines and mersenne6,

Thanks for your great entries and photos.  Summer may be a slow time here on the thread and for the train collecting hobby in general, but it is obvious that you two have been busy doing research.  

NWL,

I enjoy hearing the stories about the early movers and shakers in the toy train industry.  Thanks for putting together the information on William Metzel. Nice catch on the 3103/3110 too.

mersenne6,

I only have one example of the tin Hiawatha from a passenger set.

 

 

I think its one of the typical examples.

It does have one of the mechanical whistles.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

  • Member since
    January, 2008
  • From: Wausau Wisconsin
  • 1,356 posts
Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, August 17, 2017 9:19 PM

Nationwidelines and mersenne6,

Thanks for your great entries and photos.  Summer may be a slow time here on the thread and for the train collecting hobby in general, but it is obvious that you two have been busy doing research.  

NWL,

I enjoy hearing the stories about the early movers and shakers in the toy train industry.  Thanks for putting together the information on William Metzel. Nice catch on the 3103/3110 too.

mersenne6,

I only have one example of the tin Hiawatha from a passenger set.

 

 

I think its one of the typical examples.

It does have one of the mechanical whistles.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

  • Member since
    August, 2011
  • 456 posts
Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, August 18, 2017 2:06 PM

I hit a milestone recently, as I added the last variation of lithographed boxcab electric engines I was missing to the collection.  Per Greenberg's, this is a 1926 only version that has the cast pantograph/light on each end of the roof. 

 

Oddly enough, I have a similar version that is factory black painted over a lithograph body (as evidenced by the chips in the black paint that show the litho underneath)

 

Personally, I think the most difficult lithographed engine to find is the Empire Express 1196, which is c. 1927

I have only seen 2 or 3 of these engines in my 35+ years of collecting.

 

NWL

 

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