Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

wanswheel:

C&NW Kate Shelley 400, Chicago to Boone, Iowa

 

That's the other one I had in mind. However since Johnny correctly identified two of the three trains I'm going to declare him the winner.

Mark

Thank you, Mark. I did not think of the CNW as having a train named for one of its employees. I did think of the KCS train named for a generic lady of the Old South, but I knew that it (as well as the Phoebe Snow) did not fit your description. Note Nancy Hanks and Man O'War were fraternal twins.

New question: how was it possible to eat in Chattanooga while traveling in Virginia? And, to eat in Alexandria while traveling in Tennessee? Be specific, as to road(s) and train.

[Deggesty]

Southerngreen1401

You have the wrong Queen City.  The city is Charlotte, N.C.  Charleston, SC was name for King Charles and Charlotte was his queen.  I lived in both cities.  Both North, and South Carolina along with Georgia were a part of the Carolina Colony before they broke them apart in the early 1700.

When I was growing up in South Carolina, fifty miles from Charlotte, I knew of Charlotte as "The Queen City of the South," and Cincinnati as "The Queen City," though it was also known for a time as "The Queen City of the West. It is true that Charlotte (named for King George III's wife, Charlotte of Mecklenburg ) is older than Cincinnati, which was not named until after the Revolution. King Charles II's wife was Catherine of Braganza.

The route from Cincinnati to New Orleans via Chattanooga and Birmingham was long known as the "Queen and Crescent Route," and, for many years, the Southern Railway and its predecessors which operated the train had one called the Queen and Crescent.

From the history of South Carolina that I studied in the sixth grade, I learned that Carolina (established in 1663 and separated into two provinces in 1729) was a separate colony from Georgia, and it came into being when King Charles II gave a large area to certain lords (known as "Lords Proprietors") who had supported him. Charles Town (later, Charleston) was named for this king. The colony of Georgia was established in 1732 during the reign of King George II and was named for him. It never was a part of Carolina.

I know this that some of this post is , but I felt constrained to state some facts known from history, both railroad and non-railroad.

[Southerngreen1401]

You have the wrong Queen City.  The city is Charlotte, N.C.  Charleston, SC was name for King Charles and Charlotte was his queen.  I lived in both cities.  Both North, and South Carolina along with Georgia were a part of the Carolina Colony before they broke them apart in the early 1700.

[KCSfan]

wanswheel

C&NW Kate Shelley 400, Chicago to Boone, Iowa

That's the other one I had in mind. However since Johnny correctly identified two of the three trains I'm going to declare him the winner.

Mark

[KCSfan]

Southerngreen1401

There was two other steamliners name in honor of women.  Queen Cresant and Blue Bell.

The first train you mention was actually the Southern Ry's Queen & Crescent. It was named for the two cities it connected, Cincinnati (the Queen City) and New Orleans (the Crescent City).

I am familiar with the Bluebonnet, the Blue Comet, the Royal Blue, the Bluebird, the Banner Blue, the Southern Belle and the Liberty Bell but I've never heard of the Blue Bell. If you have any info about such a train please share it with us.

Mark

[wanswheel]

C&NW Kate Shelley 400, Chicago to Boone, Iowa

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B05E2DC133EE433A25750C2A9619C94609FD7CF

[Southerngreen1401]

There was two other steamliners name in honor of women.  Queen Cresant and Blue Bell.

[KCSfan]

Oops, my mistake. There were actually three streamliners named for real women. I had forgotten about the Pocahontos which, along with the Ann Rutledge, Johnny has correctly identified. As Al has pointed out, Phoebe Snow was a made up name so that one doesn't count. Neither does the Nancy Hanks which like its twin, the Man o' War, was named for a race horse.

Two down and one to go. Who can identify the remaining train? 

Mark 

[al-in-chgo]

Deggesty

Streamlined trains named for:

 real women: N&W's Pocahontas, Norfolk-Cincinnati, & GM&O's Ann Rutledge, Chicago-St. Louis

the Lackawanna's symbol for anthracite: Phoebe Snow, Hoboken-Buffalo

a race horse that was named for a real woman: CG's Nancy Hanks II, Savannah-Atlanta

 

"I won my fame and wide acclaim

for Lackawanna's splendid name

by keeping bright and snowy white

upon the Road of  Anthracite."  -  attrib. to Phoebe Snow, very approx. WWI.

I had thought that Phoebe Snow was a created advertising icon, something like Betty Crocker or Ann Page.  Am I wrong?  - al-in-chgo

 

 

[Deggesty]

Streamlined trains named for:

 real women: N&W's Pocahontas, Norfolk-Cincinnati, & GM&O's Ann Rutledge, Chicago-St. Louis

the Lackawanna's symbol for anthracite: Phoebe Snow, Hoboken-Buffalo

a race horse that was named for a real woman: CG's Nancy Hanks II, Savannah-Atlanta

 

[KCSfan]

Here's your next question. To the best of my knowledge there were only two streamlined trains  named after women. Name the two trains, the railroads that hosted them and their routes?

Mark

[AWP290]

Give Mark a box of used clearance cards!

The key was, indeed, the word "into."  The W&A was the first road in the area (there actually was no town called "Terminus", it was just a construction camp, much as the UP men called theirs "End of Track.") but the W&A built out of the area, not into it.

The Georgia Railroad entered Marthasville in September of 1845.  The town was renamed Atlanta several months later.

For bonus points - can anyone tell me who named Atlanta? And where the name was first used?

Over to you, Mark.

Bob

[KCSfan]

At that time the full name of the railroad was the Georgia Railroad and Banking Co.

Mark

[KCSfan]

KCSfan

I too would have guessed the W&A but in the event Johnny is wrong I'll say the Georgia RR.

Mark

As I think more about it I believe the word "into" is key to this question. If my memory is correct, construction of the W&A was "started" at what later became Atalnta therefore it technically wouldn't have been built "into" there. This makes me feel a little more confident in my answer, the GA RR..

 

 

[KCSfan]

I too would have guessed the W&A but in the event Johnny is wrong I'll say the Georgia RR.

Mark

[Deggesty]

From what I have found, the Western and Atlantic was the first road into Terminus/Marthasville.

[AWP290]

That last question sort of fell into my lap, as I have an interest in older cars as well as in railroads.

Now for the question:

What railroad was the first line to build into Marthasville (later Atlanta,) GA?  Careful, this might be a trick question, but isn't if you read it carefully.  It is a fairly straightforward question, really.

Bob Hanson

[wanswheel]

Not to mention the Rocky Mountain Rocket 88, the Orange Buick Special, and the 20th Buick Century Buick Limited.

[wanswheel]

Bob, yes your turn.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Oldsmobile should also be mentioned for its ads for the Vista-Cruiser station wagon with the California Zephyr in the background.

[AWP290]

Pontiac built a model called the Super Chief (ATSF) for a couple of years in the 50's.Studebaker built the Champion (ACL) and the Commander (NYNH&H) for years,  Chrysler built a New Yorker (Sou Ry), Nash built the Ambassador (CV), and Hudson built the Pacemaker (NYC).

Oldsmobile should get honorable mention for the 4-4-2 which, as we know, was a wheel arrangement and a Pullman configuration, but not a named train.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[wanswheel]

Dodge Challenger is a car with a name-train name. Name, by train, a certain model of Chrysler, Pontiac, Studebaker, Nash and Hudson

Mike

[KCSfan]

Bingo we have a winner. The area served by the IC Electric is located west of Peoria. Next question please Mike.

Mark

[wanswheel]

"It started in Canton, Illinois, and extended through Fulton County to the towns of Norris, Bryant, Farmington, Fairview, St. David, Lewistown, and Dunfermline."

http://www.lib.niu.edu/1994/ihy941217.html

http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/il/htm/ictc01.htm

 

[wanswheel]

Illinois Central Electric Railway

[KCSfan]

KCSfan

Everyone is familiar with the Illinois Central, the "Mainline of Mid-America". However at one time there was also a second, much shorter, Illinois Central. What was the route of this "other" Illinois Central?

It looks like some hints will be needed to get an answer to this question.

The "little" Illinois Central was located in west-central Illinois. Its first rails were laid in1903 and it was totally abandoned in 1928 giving it a life span of only 25 years.

Mark 

[Deggesty]

Dave, I checked in the September, 1962 Guide, and it showed that all four cars were still running through. It may be that the day you rode the Slumbercoach was the only through car. I also looked in the January, 1964 (I have none between the two), issue, and only the three revenue cars were then running through.

It was the Royal Gorge; the Panorama, which ran over the Dotsero Cutoff, was discontinued when the California Zephyr was inaugurated.

I am glad you were able to make use of the through service; for many years I longed to take this train and that train, and by the time I was able to travel more there were many fewer trains (and routes) to travel.

[daveklepper]

I am not completely certaind of the date, but it may have been as late as 1962.  The train south from Denver was the Royal Gorge or Panorama or whatever it was called, a Denver-Grand Junction train, combined there with the Prospector for the run to SLCity.  I think it also had some SF equipment to run south from Pueblo to Raton or wherever to connect with the Chief.   My business was in Colorado Springs on that trip.   I had ridden the train northbound from CS to Denver in 1960.

[Deggesty]

Mark, I have not looked up the schedules for the duration of this service, but to run these cars to Pueblo would have called for a third set. The schedule in May, 1958, shows two and a half hours between the time that #1 arrived in Colorado Springs and # 2 left--but only fifteen minutes in Pueblo was scheduled, which is not quite enough time to service the cars.

In the late thirties, the Southern did operate a diner on the Queen and Crescent (Cincinnati-New Orleans train) between Cincinnati and Markwald (your Wood), Miss. No time is given for the trains at Markwald (just south of Heidelberg and north of Sandersville, which were flag stops for the train) but it must have been the scheduled meeting point for the two trains from their times at Heidelberg and Sandersville, and the diner was taken off the southbound train and put on the northbound train--add a switching move to the meet.

[KCSfan]

Johnny, a question about the Colo Spgs/Chicago service via the "Q" and Rio Grande came to mind. According to my info Pueblo had the second largest population of any Colorado cities up until 1960. Did any of the four cars run on to Pueblo which is only about 45 miles from Colo Spgs? If not, I wonder why they didn't  as it would seem logical to serve that city given its population and the  business travel that I imagine the Colo Fuel & Iron Co. generated.

Mark