FlyingCrow We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this. We'll collectively weigh in with: The Southland.
We , that is Larry Goolsby..the author of two books on ACL & SAL passenger service (as well as the history of the AB&C) and myself find that we are also caught short on this.
We'll collectively weigh in with: The Southland.
nope....
Dixie Limited?
http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002299.jpg
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/qf/c/ModernMechanix/3-1938/med_milk_fuel.jpg
Excerpt from Railway Age Gazette, Nov. 22, 1912
The Chicago & Eastern Illinois, in connection with the Louisville & Nashville, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis, Western & Atlantic, Central of Georgia, Georgia Southern & Florida, Atlantic Coast and Florida East Coast, will about December 15 put on a train between Chicago and Florida, to be known as the Dixie de Luxe. The train will be made up wholly of Pullman cars through from Chicago to Palm Beach, via Evansville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Jacksonville. It will leave Chicago about 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving at Jacksonville the next evening, and at Palm Beach the following morning.
henry6 The South WInd
The South WInd
nope...
daveklepper I'll weigh in with the City of Miami
I'll weigh in with the City of Miami
KCSfan this is just a SWAG but I'll say the Dixie Flagler. Mark
this is just a SWAG but I'll say the Dixie Flagler.
Mark
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FlyingCrow All yours Z.O.
All yours Z.O.
The Dixie DeLuxe was the original proposed name of what Chicago-Florida train?
Z.O. is right.
The old Texas Rocket obs.....with a baggage door cut in the forward side. However, no other changes so you'd see this thing rumbling out of Kansas City Union Station with the M&E getting a really good view of the scenery. Was most peculiar.
PS...I saw it in the consist of #39 once spliced between a Rock Island ex-troop sleeper and an SP 3 door heavyweight two-tone grey mail storage car. Bizarre isn't the word.
I think the AT&SF had one loghtweight for use with a doodle-bug all headend car, an articulated doodle-bug at at that.
But in addition, the Waterloo Ceder Falls and Northern had two such cars at one time, and I rode one in the summer of 1952 with Ray DeGroot and "Giggles" Watson from Waterloo to Ceder Rapids and back and, next day, Waterloo to Waverly and back. This was a heavy wood interuban car, engineer on a normal front platform, a baggage compartment, a coach section with regular two-and-two-seating, a parlor section with stuffed leather-covered movable armchairs, and brass-railed observation rear platform to which one could move two of the chairs in good weather.
ZephyrOverland FlyingCrow: Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat.... Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ???? The Rock Island.
FlyingCrow: Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat.... Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????
Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat....
Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????
The Rock Island.
I'm sure Z.O. is right but just to keep the pot boiling it sounds like something the old SAL might have done on its old line thru Bradenton FL, hooked to a "Dude."
FlyingCrow Well, since I "think" it's my time to ask another question and , in the spirit of all this "observation" chat.... Who operated the only (I know of) baggage-obs ????
The Rock Island. I believe it was the chair-observation "Missouri" that received a baggage section in the observation end. The car was utilized in doodlebug runs.
Mountain View and Tower View were the blunt-end obs for the Broadway and never got buffer plates or diaphragms. Others (PRR) did. Including, I believe, the Senator and Congressional Budd blunt-end observation cars. The New Haven took the Merchants Limited ROUND END observation cars, and cut train doors into the ends and equipped them with diaphragms and buffer plates so they could be used mid-train.
For what is worth column, and this may or may not be important, I remember that tat least one of the former Pennsy square obs cars had a full diaphragm on the observation end. I recall seeing at New York Penn station sometime around 1970 and in the middle of a train. The reason I remembered so well is I had bought one an Atlas N scale model of it . Rgds IGN
Deggesty ZephyrOverland: I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation. Do you mean buffer plates and diaphragms? These cars did have vestibules at what was the front end, so they could be boarded without having to pass through another car. I am not certain, but I believe that they did have buffer plates so they could be connected at the rear.
ZephyrOverland: I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.
I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.
Do you mean buffer plates and diaphragms? These cars did have vestibules at what was the front end, so they could be boarded without having to pass through another car. I am not certain, but I believe that they did have buffer plates so they could be connected at the rear.
Those cars did have the buffer plates and diaphragms on the boarding side of the car, but originally there was no buffer plate and diaphragm on the blunt end side - just a service door and a drumhead. I assume that eventually all of the blunt end sleepers did receive a regular pass through door and buffer plate and diaphragm.
This PDF link is to a Coach Yard brass ad that shows one of the cars as originally delivered:
http://www.thecoachyard.com/PDF/COSF.pdf
This link shows one of the cars with the buffer plate/diaphragm added:
http://archived.ggrm.org/about_the_museum/passenger/images_passenger/sp9053end.jpg
ZephyrOverland I don't know if these cars ever received vestibules on the blunt end for mid-train operation.
The observation cars (square end) for the 1956 Denver Zephyr had a diaphragm with buffer plate aswell as two windows and a door.
Johnny
K4sPRR Despite the popularity of the swallowtail or round end observation cars the railroads became weary of them because they could only be placed on the end of the train, there was no vestibule allowing access to other cars. In addition putting the train together at various end points at times required a special move to properly place the car. Blunt end cars, despite those built with unsightly vestibule doors became more the thing in the late 40's, early 50's. The PRR built blunt end cars that did not have vestibule doors, their reasoning was visibility, many passengers would complain about the reflection of the windows on round end cars creating glare and not being able to enjoy the view. Santa Fe RR send their round end cars back to Pullman to be converted to the more practicle blunt end. The B&O also bought into the blunt end to include doors giving the cars more versatility in their use.
Despite the popularity of the swallowtail or round end observation cars the railroads became weary of them because they could only be placed on the end of the train, there was no vestibule allowing access to other cars. In addition putting the train together at various end points at times required a special move to properly place the car.
Blunt end cars, despite those built with unsightly vestibule doors became more the thing in the late 40's, early 50's. The PRR built blunt end cars that did not have vestibule doors, their reasoning was visibility, many passengers would complain about the reflection of the windows on round end cars creating glare and not being able to enjoy the view.
Santa Fe RR send their round end cars back to Pullman to be converted to the more practicle blunt end. The B&O also bought into the blunt end to include doors giving the cars more versatility in their use.
The SP and UP blunt end cars that were the answer to the last question were different than the blunt end observation cars you mention. The UP/SP cars were basically 10 roomette, 6 double bedroom sleepers with one end sheathed like a blunt end observation car but without the vestibule, windows or any lounge car facilities. I think the reason these cars were built because, besides aesthetics, was economics. It was a way for the railroads to increase lounge car revenues. If a Pullman-operated observation lounge car was utilized, Pullman would get to keep the lounge car revenues. The Cascade had a railroad owned and operated triple unit diner and lounge car and as a result, the SP got to keep all of the lounge car revenues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the City of San Francisco utilized full railroad owned and operated lounge cars.
I could have answered the question if I had been quick enough, but as I remember, the trains did not have observation cars, but the assigned rear sleeper had the rear end without diaphragm and with an end mcuh like square-end observation cars, possibly lacking the two typical large windows. Saw these cars but never rode in one.
FlyingCrow Blunt ends. Plan 9522A.....SP9025 through SP9029.
Blunt ends.
Plan 9522A.....SP9025 through SP9029.
New question: in 1950, the Sunset Limited and the Cascade were re-equipped with lightweight cars. All of the sleepers on the Sunset were 10 roomette-6 double bedrooms--but five of these cars were different from the rest (as two of the 10-6's on the Cascade, and five 10-6's built for the City of San Francisco were). How were these cars different?
Deggesty ZephyrOverland: The question we've all been waiting for...... In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what? It seems to me that the Sunset Limited was the first train to enter the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, which was the first true union station in New Orleans since all the roads with passenger service used it. In 1953, I came into NOLA from Baton Rouge at the IC/GCL station, and left for Birmingham from the NO Terminal Station. The next time I was in the Crescent City, in 1960, I arrived on the L&N, left on the KCS, returned on the KCS, and left on the Southern--all at one station.
ZephyrOverland: The question we've all been waiting for...... In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?
The question we've all been waiting for......
In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?
It seems to me that the Sunset Limited was the first train to enter the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, which was the first true union station in New Orleans since all the roads with passenger service used it. In 1953, I came into NOLA from Baton Rouge at the IC/GCL station, and left for Birmingham from the NO Terminal Station. The next time I was in the Crescent City, in 1960, I arrived on the L&N, left on the KCS, returned on the KCS, and left on the Southern--all at one station.
You got it! The Sunset Limited was the first train to arrive at the New Orleans Union Passenger Terminal, on January 8, 1954. Johnny, the next question is yours.
ZephyrOverland The question we've all been waiting for...... In 1954 the Sunset Limited was the first train ever in American Railroading to do what?
West Coast Al here. As some already know this time I am up to my --- in the swamp with alligators. Actually I am busy doing taxes for my clients and don't really have time to participate but I look in to see whats going on when I can.
Al - in - Stockton
al-in-chgo I bumped into the above from some time ago. In the absence of fresh queries would it be okay for us to appoint West Coast Al (aka 'passengerfan') as "da man" for the next question, assuming he wishes to pose one? Are you da man, West Coast Al ! I myself will reluctantly volunteer the next question if folks okay it but I don't think it is the caliber of the recent questions. - Chicago al
I bumped into the above from some time ago. In the absence of fresh queries would it be okay for us to appoint West Coast Al (aka 'passengerfan') as "da man" for the next question, assuming he wishes to pose one? Are you da man, West Coast Al ! I myself will reluctantly volunteer the next question if folks okay it but I don't think it is the caliber of the recent questions. - Chicago al
Al, the question you're referring to goes back to April of 2009.....
I'm still in the process of getting together the next question. Please bear with me.
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