As I looked through the representations of the southern roads in my November, 1937, issue of the Guide (handle with care, the binding is not holding as it used to, and bits of paper are flaking off the pages), I found one road, the Seaboard, which noted that the Colored coach on two trains--one, Portsmouth-Norlina, and the other, Jacksonville-Tampa--were not air-conditioned. None of the other roads in the South mentioned such exclusion--either all were air-conditioned or none was.
Johnny
I guess colored were to change at Norelina to a car (air-conditioned) from Washington or New York when traveling from Portsmouth to Atlanta, while whites could ride a through car.
Not javing access to an OG, I can take satisfaction is a pretty good guess.
Miningmanmy question is could white folk ride with the black folk? seeing the black folk were segregated and could not ride with the whites.
I've seen a couple of reports that said whites weren't supposed to ride in the 'colored' accommodations. (That of course has some other 'overtones' of racism above and beyond justifying a legalistic interpretation of the statutes involved.)
Remember that after Plessey v. Ferguson, just as with some labor situations after Lochner, 'separate but equal' was Constitutionally justified for a while, and it was not difficult to determine, in the case of railroad travel, that 'equality' meant the same getting from point A to point B, not the same quality of accommodation en route. A similar lame argument applied to schools where the curriculum included the same subjects, but funding, books, teaching quality, etc. were manifestly unequal.
Every train in the States with these laws had to have this separation?
Worse than that: any train that ran through one of these States had to provide it while doing so. That meant that some railroads had to provide cars to be switched in and out, or that were 'convertible' (via convenient partitions and doors, for example) when they got to the part of the run involved.
Note that this brings up the question of what happens in Pullman cars, where an African-American might buy through space including dining-car privilege, then go to eat in the diner in one of these segregationist states. This sort of problem, if I recall correctly, was solved (in the latter Forties) in the initial 'dry run' by the organizations that later produced the Brown v. Board of Ed. decision.
I had personal experiences with these through trains. Generally, they were all-reserved. So the segregation existed for the entire run, not just the portion south of the Mason Dixon Line. Washington was the break-point for NYCity - Florida and NYC - Atlanta - New Orleans, and only reserved-seat coaches ran through, plus of course Pullmans on a variety of trains. On Pullmans, blacks were sold sections starting at the opposite end of the car from whites, so only if the car was full would blacks and whites have adjacent sections, and a white and a black would not share a section. All Southerm, ACL, and Seabord diners were Jim Crow diners with a partitions separating one table on each side from the rest of the interior. In a typical dining car, this meant that 32 seats werre available for whites and 8 for blacks. Blacks could use this dining car area as lounge area, between meals, and were not welcomed in the lounge and/or observation cars.
Should Johnny ask the next question?
Thanks REM and Dave. Simpler but flawed times. Embarrasing and touchy subject to talk about but I think enough time has passed to find out how this applied historically to the railroads.
In Ontario and Quebec, not sure of the rest of the provinces, a lady could not go to a bar by herself. There were seperate entrances marked "Men" and "Ladies and Escorts". Stuffy and prudish British holdover stuff. Disappeared in the early sixties. Some older and larger hotels had those entrances carved in stone work and remnants still exist.
ALL:
The question has been answered and we have a great deal of information about the Deep South and their race relations.
The second railroad was the Seaboard Air Line. "SAL penguin" said that air conditioning was available to white and colored passengers.
Who ever is next---go for it.
Ed Burns
If Johnney-Degasty defers, I will come up with one.
Name three streamlined trains that served five capital cities. They did not all serve the same cities. All were overnight trains.
This was a real doozie until I read the question carefully. If you'll allow Washington DC as a capital it's a little more forgiving. Four capitals turned out to be fairly easy.
The only one I could come up with that works with only state capitals was the 1948 Texas Eagle when it briefly ran from New York. Trenton, Harrisburg, Columbus, Indianapolis, Little Rock (and Austin).
If I can use DC then I get:
Silver Comet Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Atlanta
Silver Meteor Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia
Silver Star Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia
Through car operation gets the CZ Sacramento Salt Lake City Denver Lincoln and Albany (NYC) or Harrisburg Trenton (PRR)
rcdrye This was a real doozie until I read the question carefully. If you'll allow Washington DC as a capital it's a little more forgiving. Four capitals turned out to be fairly easy. The only one I could come up with that works with only state capitals was the 1948 Texas Eagle when it briefly ran from New York. Trenton, Harrisburg, Columbus, Indianapolis, Little Rock (and Austin). If I can use DC then I get: Silver Comet Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Atlanta Silver Meteor Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia Silver Star Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia Through car operation gets the CZ Sacramento Salt Lake City Denver Lincoln and Albany (NYC) or Harrisburg Trenton (PRR)
I have always considered Washington, D.C. to be a capital city, so you have the three trains.
PRR renamed its piece of the 1946-1948 through Sunshine Special the Texas Eagle between August and December 1948 before settling on the Penn Texas name. It wasn't a streamliner as such, though many of the cars were streamlined by 1948.
Only 36 miles separated the easternmost point reached by interurban from St. Louis from the closest point on the midwestern systems of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York. Name the two points.
Ignore me.
rcdrye Only 36 miles separated the easternmost point reached by interurban from St. Louis from the closest point on the midwestern systems of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York. Name the two points.
Danville is one of them. The other point is a bit closer to Danville than Terre Haute (but not much).
gDanville - Crawfordsville (Sp?
Correction, Paris, Illinois. Conected to Terre Haut, and part of the THI&E, which became part of the Indiana Railraod, which abandoned the line to Paris earl in its operations. The line to Paaris was supposed to continiue to Danville, IL, and some grading actually took place.
Since Mark (CSSHegewisch) had the correct railroads I'll give it to him, though Dave has the correct Terre Haute & Western/THI&E/IRR endpoint. Service to Paris ended 1/25/1932, less than a year after IRR took control. After that, Terre Haute was the correct answer.
This may not quite be 50 years ago, but it's close. Great Northern purchased new motive power for the "Western Star" in 1967-68. What was the motive power and what was significant about it?
They were SDP40's (320-325) and SDP45's (326-333). All had a squared off rear hoods to house the steam generating equipment. The locomotives were re-numbered into the BN 9800 series and later to freight numbers (6300 series and 6500 series). I heard that AMTRAK wanted them (because they were new), but the BN kept those locomotives for freight power. I worked in the Northtown Diesel Material Department in the 1980's and saw them from time to time.
NP Eddie got it and gets the next question.
CSSHEGEWISCH:
I will continue with two BN locomotive questions:
Four X-GN switch engines (all pre-war) were rebuilt in 1975-6 at West Burlington. "The program was determined to be too costly and canceled afer four units being done." (DelGrosso, BN Locomotives, etc). What were their numbers coming off this program.
GE loaned the BN two switchers for testing. The BN had a surplus of switchers and returned them. What were ther BN numbers?
Happy hunting.
763-234-9306 Cell
Good questions, gents, but watch date creep!
BN "NW12" switchers were rebuilt on NW2 frames at West Burlington using upgraded engines with 645 components on 567 blocks. Road numbers 1,5,14 and 19.
From trainpix.com ( http://www.trainpix.com/bn/EMDRBLD/NW12/INDEX.HTM )
Road Numbers Builder Date Date BN # 1st # 2nd # 3rd # BNSF # Number Built Rebuilt
1 GN 5302 GN 102 BN 450 - 861 Feb 39 Mar 75 5 GN 5306 GN 106 BN 454 - 865 Mar 39 Apr 75 14 GN 5317 GN 117 BN 464 - 944 Jul 39 Feb 75 19 GN 5322 GN 122 BN 469 - 949 Aug 39 Oct 76GE loaned the not-particularly-successful pair of 1978-built SL-144 switchers, which had previously operated as C&NW 1198 and 1199.BN operated them for a while in the early 1980s as 1100 and 1101. No other railroads were interested, and GE scrapped them in 1984.
Rob:
I did not mean to ruffle any feathers. You are correct and the next question is for you.
No feathers ruffled - just a gentle reminder.
In what was at the time a major merger/lease transaction, this railroad swallowed up the fleets of its smaller partners, merging their diesel fleets in by adding 2000 to the merged line's units' road numbers, and 3000 to those of the leased line's units.
Just guessing, N&W on NKP and Wabash?
Got it in one, er , two. N&W merged with the NKP and leased the Wabash on July 1, 1964. NKP units got 2000 added, Wabash 3000.
Name the three major railroads that regularly used Pacific 4-6-2s for fast regularly scheduled freight (meaning not passenger but also not mail) service. For two it was generally for one kind of commodity.
The two railroads that used Pacifics on one-commodity trains needed at least one connecting railroad for the total transportation. The successor of the trains on one railroad, again requiring connections with a slightly changed route, is a regular hot train today. For the other, the business no longer exists and involved a port. The third railroad used dual-service Pacifics, but its primary competitor designed a freight Pacific that was never built.
Need more hints? Ask another question?
Both GN and NP used passenger power on silk trains, both also requiring the assistance of the CB&Q to complete the runs. Erie had some dual-service pacifics. I think NYC&StL was looking into them before Super Power - and Berkshires - came their way.
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