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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 3, 2015 8:51 AM

rc has the next question.   He answered correctly with Kate Shelly. Sure, I also know the story about the disaster avoided, but rc, go ahead and recount the rescue.  And ask the next question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 3, 2015 11:15 AM

C&NW's bridge across the Des Moines River washed out in a flood in 1881.  Kate Shelley was the daughter of the local section foreman. She crawled over the partially washed out bridge to flag down the Chicago Express.  C&NW later gave her a job as the local agent.  After she died in the teens the new steel bridge, still in use by UP, was named in her honor.

 

On to the next question.  Two railroads shared a bridge near an international border.  After one of the railroads was abandoned, the other created a detour route that crossed the border twice so it wouldn't be stuck maintaining the bridge on its own.  Both railroads, and the detour route.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 3, 2015 3:25 PM

Is this detour route in use today?

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, December 3, 2015 4:17 PM

Deggesty
As I recall, some other roads had baggage lounge cars--and there was no traffic through them on the part of people who just wander around on board a train.

B&O's Cincinnatian and other trains had a baggage snack bar lounge at the front of the coache section to serve those who didn't want to use the diner.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 3, 2015 5:17 PM

All of the track involved is still there, and the host road still owns it.  When the detouring railroad was sold in the 1990s, the detour rights were given up.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, December 7, 2015 8:19 PM

Giant hints... The detouring railroad and its host road are mentioned in a recent post on the other thread - and the reason for the detour appeared recently in "Classic Trains."

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 5:18 AM

Is the border with Canada and the USA tracks in Miinnasota?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:54 AM

Border is with Canada.  USA tracks are in two states.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:49 AM

Minnesota one and N. Dekota the other?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 2:45 PM

daveklepper

Minnesota one and N. Dekota the other?

 

Bit further east.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, December 11, 2015 6:11 AM

There was a picture of the bridge in a recent issue of Classic Trains.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 15, 2015 6:33 PM

OK, so I was wrong.  The picture of the bridge was in the September issue of Trains, not Classic Trains.

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Posted by Wizlish on Friday, December 18, 2015 9:29 AM

It's got to involve CASO, right?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, December 18, 2015 10:05 AM

One of the Canadian railroads is involved.  The entire detour was less than 12 miles long.

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, December 19, 2015 5:28 AM

Was the railroad that was abandoned the Rutland?

Rgds IGN

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, December 19, 2015 6:52 AM

narig01

Was the railroad that was abandoned the Rutland?

Rgds IGN

 

It was.  Now fill in the detour blanks.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 6:47 PM

IGN gets the next question for the partial answer.  When the Rutland was abandoned, the Central Vermont chose to discontinue operation over the bridge and trestle between Rouses Pint NY and Alburgh VT.  Instead CV's Rouses Point Sub operated from East Alburgh VT to Cantic QC and back to Rouses Point via the CN's former Canada Atlantic and Rouses Point lines.  The operation was made a little more difficult since there was no connecting track in the SE corner of the crossing at Cantic.  Traffic had dwindled to practically nothing by the late 1980s, so the rights over CN were not included in the sale of the Central Vermont to RailTex's New England Central in 1995.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:32 PM

I'm not sure what happened to my reply.

 

My guess was St Albans, Vt - Alburgh, Vt - Lacolle, Quebec - Rouses Point, NY. That was from looking at what remains today. (Mostly rusty rails).

In digging around the internet, I see that Wanswheel, Dave Klepper and you(rcdye) had a lively discussion last December on Central Vermont passenger trains. 

I'll try to get a question posted tonite.

The IGN

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, December 24, 2015 6:14 AM
The CN Junction in the town of LaColle is known as Cantic, to separate it from Lacolle Jct about a mile west where the CN crossed the D&H's Naperville Jct. The CN Rouses Point sub is the route of Amtrak's Adirondack, the line up through Alburgh to Cantic is the connection to the New England Central, formerly the route of the Montrealer. The line west of Cantic to Valleyfield was abandoned in the 1980s.
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Posted by narig01 on Monday, December 28, 2015 12:36 AM

A trivia question.

Congressman Oakes Ames had a steamship named after him while serving in congress. Name the railroad it was operated for and the two ports it served.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 6:53 AM

The "Oakes Ames" was a sidewheel steamer built in Burlington VT in 1868 for the Rutland Railroad for carferry operation between Burlington VT and Plattsburgh NY, where a connection was made with the Montreal and Plattsburgh, a Delaware and Hudson predecessor.  Capable of carrying 14 36 ft freight cars, it was loaded through the bow from a float at the foot of Maple St, near the present Vermont Railway yard.  It operated the route until 1871, when the combination of D&H disinterest and slightly improved relations with the Vermont Central/Vermont and Canada made the seasonal ferry operation less attractive.  Sold to the Champlain Transportation Company, it was rebuilt as the line steamer "Champlain II"  which was wrecked on Split Rock Mountain, near Westport NY, in 1875.

Champlain Transportation is still in business as Lake Champlain Transportaion, running among others a seasonal route from Burlington to Port Kent NY (where the "Ames" stopped, but not to transfer cars) and from Grand Isle VT to Cumberland Head near Plattsburgh.  The original Montral and Plattsburgh line was replaced by the current route via Rouses Point in the 1880s.

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Posted by narig01 on Friday, January 1, 2016 7:16 PM

I saw several sites on the Champlain II and the Oakes Ames while looking for the previous question. Thought it would make a question. The wreck has become a dive site in Lake Champlain.

This is what I'd found.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00098800/00009/4j

 http://www.lcmm.org/shipwrecks_history/uhp/champlain_ii.htm 

http://www.waterfrontdiving.com/champlainIIHistory.shtml

 

rcdyre your question.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 1, 2016 7:48 PM

The Rutland finally completed its dream of a route to Canada in 1901 after it bought the Ogdensburgh and Lake Champlain and built the Rutland-Canadian up through the Champlain Islands.  Shortly after the route's completion the Rutland fell under the control of a large railroad system.  Name the system and the man responsible for this, who was formerly president of the Wagner Palace Car Company.

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Posted by Wizlish on Saturday, January 2, 2016 1:59 PM

This would be the New York Central, of course, who acquired 'just enough' stock from William Seward Webb et al.  Webb of course had bought control of the Rutland from the Clement interests in order to further his chances, or so he thought, at the Vermont governorship by being a local railroad president.

I had thought this was going to have something to do with the Mohawk and Malone/St.L&A approach to Montreal that became the Adirondack Division of such recent interest to railfans and trail advocates, but apparently it doesn't...

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 2, 2016 2:31 PM

You are of course correct.  Dr Webb also had his estate in Shelburne VT, that is now covered by the Shelburne Museum, the Morgan Horse Association and Shelburne Farms.  I'll leave to you the tangled "Webb" of the M&M, StL&A/A&StL, RW&O and incursions by the D&H.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 6, 2016 4:34 PM

Wizlish, you're up.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:00 AM

Let's try a new one...

After this regional railroad was abandoned, a segment was left in place to connect two international routes belonging to the same, much larger, railroad.  The connecting segment remained into the 1970s, when the eastermost of the two international routes was itself abandoned.  The westernmost remains today.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 22, 2016 6:22 AM

This one has sat for a week.  Time to move on.

I was looking for the remnant of the Rutland between NYC's Massena line and the Adirondack Division at Malone.  It was retained for NYC and later PC use until the section of the Adirondack Division north of Malone was abandoned around 1970.

New question:  To accommodate some of its own trains on tracks shared by a different line, this interurban put flaps on the edges of some of the station platforms. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 22, 2016 10:06 AM

The interurban is the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin, which had flaps on high-level platforms east of Bellwood to allow clearance for freight trains.  The high-level platforms were for service operated by the Chicago Rapid Transit Co.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 22, 2016 10:11 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The interurban is the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin, which had flaps on high-level platforms east of Bellwood to allow clearance for freight trains.  The high-level platforms were for service operated by the Chicago Rapid Transit Co.

 

And the freight train crews required at least three men - the motorman, a guy on the front with a pole to flip the flaps up, and a guy on the caboose steps to flip 'em back down.  Near as I can tell from photos they were more or less 2x10s with hinged brackets.  In a few photos you can see that the crew didn't always get all of them flipped back.

 

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