The loop never closed between Kanakee and Terre Haute, though it got pretty close.
OK IFTHE CA&E trains stopped at Halstead, then CA&E to Elgin, then the Fox Valley interurban south, assuming there is a way to get back to Chicago from its south end to Chicago. Otherwise, only to LaGrange Rd., if there was a N-S line there, and back to Chicago on the C&WT. I'll have to study what is available on the internet.
Did not know about the gap you mentioned.
Ressults of research. From Halstead St. Station, CA&E to Elgin, Aurora Elgin and Fox Valley to Morris, Chicago, Ottawa, and Peoria (?) to Lockport, (?) to Chicago Heights, Chicago and Interurban Traction to Englewood and Chicago Rapid Transit back to the Loop.
Close enough. AE&FR's line to Yorkville connected with the Fox and Illinois Union to Morris. The Chicago and Illinois Valley (Illinois Traction)returned you to Joliet, the Joliet and Eastern to Chicago Heights, up the C&IT to the south limit of Chicago on Vincennes, and Halsted to 63rd. Up the stairs to the Englewood line and back downtown. First gap appeared in 1922 when the J&E was abandoned.
The first leg was still the Metropolitan West Side Elevated , and Englewood was still South Side Rapid Transit (Both operated by Chicago Elevated Railways Collateral Trust) in 1920. Chicago Rapid Transit wasn't formed until 1924.
In 1920 the CA&E and AE&FRV were still the Aurora Elgin and Chicago. There was a track connection from the Third Rail Division to the Fox River Division at Elgin, but passengers had to walk through the stub-end station and out into the street to get Fox River Division cars.
The Halsted-Vincennes line was acquired by Chicago City Railway from Chicago and Southern Traction, C&IT's predecessor in 1910. In 1920 there was no direct physical connection between CSL and the South Side Rapid Transit, though a connection was built in the late 20s from the 63d st line to CRT's 63rd st. lower yard for materials and work equipment.
This city had three interurban lines, two of which also had a local streetcar line. It also had a more comprehensive, multi-line streetcar system. In some places, track was shared, and all used conventional 550-600V DC. Two of the initerurbans merged, then the two remaining ones sold their respective local lines to the major city system who combined the two lines. Then the whole local system went bus, although one of the two interurbans did maintain certain passenger services elsewhere while maintaining freight service in the city limites. City, name of companies involved, name of at least one of the local insterurban-owned local streetcar lines. As much information in addition as you can provide.
Sacramento CA. The three interurbans were Northern Electric (later Sacramento Northern), Central California Traction and Oakland Antioch and Eastern (later San Francisco-Sacramento). CCT and NE/SN operated local streetcars, as did Pacific Gas and Electric. SN merged in SF-S under Western Pacific ownership. SN service south out of Sacramento ended in August 1940, north in October 1940. Service from San Francisco to Pittsburg remained into 1941. SN continued electric freight operations over most of its lines into the early 1950s, gradually dieselising and then moving larger and larger segments to trackage rights over "steam" roads, especially after losing its ferry crossing on the way to Oakland when the trestle collapsed in 1951 and the car ferry Ramon failed inspection in 1954. Through electric freight operation was discontined north of Sacramento first due to the exposed third rail. but continued until 1957 Pittsburg-Oakland and into 1965 in Marysville and Yuba City.
CCT, PG&E and SN city lines were sold to Sacramento City Lines - part of National City Lines in 1943. Buses followed in 1946.
SN operated city streetcars in Chico until 1947, California's last 5 cent fare.
Back to the Illinois/Indiana loop there were two gaps, one on either side of Danville IL totalling about 80 miles. There was also a gap in 600V running between LaPorte and Chesterton IN, where the Air Line trackage had been abandoned in 1918.
Of course you can ask the next question. But do you want to supply the name of one or both or the combined route of a local Sacramento interurban-operated vstreetcar line or should I do so?
SN had two suburban operations, the Swanton and Elverta "scoots". The last SN car line was "C St" combined with a CCT line to Colonial Heights (and operated with ex-CCT equipment) by SCL.
Right, the combined line was C St. - Colonial Heights. Marysville - Uba City local passenger service, probably with a Birney or two, lasted through WWII on the SN. Your question, please.
This interurban's cars were initially equipped to operate at three different voltage/current combinations, including one which required dual poles, and one which didn't require poles.
1. Did it operate out of Cincinnati?
2. Was it originally constructed as a narrow gauge steam railwau?
3 Was it broad or standard gauge?
4. After abadonment, was a section retained as a city suburban streetcar line?
1. no, it was not near Cincinnati
2. no, but parts of it were built as standard gauge steam railroads
3. standard gauge, but it did operate for a time on tracks shared with a different gauge
4. no. Part of it was taken over by another operation and lasted a bit longer as an interurban.
The Washington Baltimore and Annapolis The double wire is new to me, but certainly may have once been a requirement for street trackiage in either Washington or Baltimore. I believe there were stretches of 1200V on the Washington line, and originally there was some 600V third rail operation, and of course conduit operatoin in Washington. The original line to Annapolis was a steam railroad. And the Baltimore - Annapolis line did last longer
You are correct. The Double wire (originally 750v AC) was in Annapolis, with a short pole used for the ground on the large interurbans. The second wire was dropped when the tracks were re-electrified at 600VDC. The original electrification was 3300 VAC, replaced by 1200 VDC in just a couple of years. Before 1921 WB&A shared track with the Baltimore streetcar system which used the cable gauge of 5'4 1/2" (after 1921 WB&A shared a gantlet with B&O's Pratt St line, home of the Dockside switchers). Both Naval Academy Junction - Annapolis (ex B&O) and Baltimore - Annapolis (Annapolis Short Line) were built as steam roads. Conduit operation in Washington while the cars were AC-equipped lasted only a very short time. Even though the syndicate that built the WB&A had ties to the one that built the Aurora Elgin and Chicago around the same time, no third rail was used.
For a picture of a WB&A car with double poles
http://www.trbimg.com/img-542db079/turbine/bal-wba-20141002
In doing all the research, I also used Wikapedia, which admittadly cannot be definitive, and it stated that at one time the line to Washington did use third rail. This is an error, obviously, since I never read it anywhere else. But the conduit was used and that was the pole-free operation.
In WB&A's latter days, the dual-gauge operation in Baltimore was eliminated by its sharing the B&O RofW into Camden Station, an arrangement retained by the B&A.
In 1937, a suburban transit system's main streetcar repair shop was located off the tracks of the city system with which it connected, on a line that was just recently converted to buses by the city system, but for which track was maintained for the benefit of the suburban system. At one time, the line and three or four others in the same are had been part of the suburban system. In 1940, the suburban system, which at one time had operated somewhere around 30 trolley lines, was only running three, in two separated division, connected by tracks of the city system, and connected to the main shop mentioned by a complex series of service tracks that once saw passenger service. Two of the three remaining streetcar lines of the suburban system ran in part over tracks of the city system. All three of the suburban system's streetcar lines lasted through WWII, two with heavy enough traffic to occasionally borrow city system cars for rush hour service, and all three routes have some bus service today. The shops did not survive into WWII, and repair work during WWII was handled by the city system's vast shops. Ditto scrapping after conversion of each line to bus.
Name the city and suburban systems, the car line where the shops were located, and the three remaining suburban streetcar lines and their end-points. Connections at end-points are optional but requested.
And any other informationi you may care to provide, including car types and dates of construction.
Before digging into Dave's question... WB&A's Terrminal in Baltimore was reached (after 1921) by standard gauge tracks on Pratt St that were not part of the Baltimore streetcar system. B&O's Pratt St trackage was also on Pratt St, using separate rails interleaved with WB&A's. WB&A's 1200 V DC overhead continued into the terminal.
Note that the year of my question should be 1937, not 1940. However, even after the suburban system's shops closed, the track and wire were left in place until summer 1941 and were listed as non-revenue trackage, possibly because the city system was thinking of some new use for the suburban system's shops.
both the city system and the suburban system are part of one big authority that also runs commuter trains. city system was a pioneer in light rail and operates more light rail than it did in 1937, but no strictly streetcars. in 1937 it operated about 40 streetcars, half fairly modern lightweights, and the rest deck-roof semi-convertables, that had been bought from the suburban system. except for one car, these lightweights were the most modern and comfortable cars on the city system. cars of the same type ran on two of the suburban systems lines, and cars of the older type saw service on all three.
This sounds like the Eastern Mass Street Railway's operation in conjunction with MBTA. Eastern Mass's main shops were in New Bedford MA on that city system's lines. The rest of EMSRy's operations were around Boston. One EMSRy car is operational, another is nearing completion and a third has had major steelwork done on it at Seashore Trolley Museum.
I thought that the shops the Eastern Mass used in New Bedford were actually on the New Bedford system. In 1937, Eastern Mass did not run any streetcar lines that connected with the New Bedford system, and their use of the shops there ended much earlier. Also, the New Bedford system, if that is the supposed to be the city system mentioned in my question, cannot fit the question becdause it certainly did not pioneer light rail. In 1937 the city system operated two lines that could be fully described as light rail, two others mostly light rail, and four streetcar lines that shared the major donwtown off-street operaotin that all these mentioned light rail lines used, also used by Eastern Mass up to 1936. The city system also had one pure light rail line tht did not go downtown. The successor still does, plus the two of 1937, one of the two partial, but cut back, and one more recent post WWII light rail line.
lThe city system's line formerly Eastern Mass's, where the 1937 EM Main Shops were lolcated, ran from a transfer point near a river to a cemetary. At the cemetary it almost met a city system streetcar line that started at an important transfer station adjacent to the city system's huge main shops complex. Both a system bus lines today, so you can figure out which is the line.
It looks like the ex-EMRy 111 line, from Chelsea to Revere. EMRy shops in Revere? I think the cemetery is Woodlawn, which would make the BERy/MTA line the 110 from Wellington, near the T's Everett Shops.
I have not looked at the current map, but I assume from what you say that the 110 bus covers both the original Boston Elevated Ry line from Everett to Woodlawn and then continues on to Chelsea Square, near the Mystic River, which covers what was the ex-EAstern Mass line, and the EMSRy shops were about in the middle of that line. I assume that before 1936 and the rebuilding of the Chelsea Bridge, the line may have run through to the Brattle St. loop in the subway, at what was then Scolley Sq., now Government Center. The other ENSRy lines at Chelsie Square did run through, and the replacement EM buses ran through the then-new Sumner Tunnel to Haymarket Sq. It would be logical for the T to have long since combined the two lines to Woodlawn into one throiugh route. The tracks to Rivered Beach from Chelsei Square were Eastern Mass tracks and continued to Lynn and Salem. The Revere Carhouse was an EM carhouse, but not the main shops, and was a Boston El carhouse 1936 on. The El routed the Revere via Chelsie cars to Maverick via its own Meridian Street line, and the Lynn and Salem lines became EM buses via the Sumner Tunnel to Haymarket Sq. The heavy Revere via Orient Hieghts EM line was its one line into Maverick, using El's tracks between Maverick and Orient Heights, so it stayed the same under El operation.
Your question.
Apologies for a needed correction. It is the 111 bus route, not the 110. The 111 starts from Chelsea and goes to Woodlawn approximating the old Eastern Mass and then Boston El route. The Eastern Mass main shops were located on the southwest side of the double-track line about half-way between Chelsea and Woodlawn. At Woodlawn, both the 111 and the 110 run east to Revere. This portion of both lines was never a streetcar route as far as I know, but there was a streetcar route from Revere to Everet that remained as a service conenction, some of it single-track, north of Woodlawn, until 1951, with the replacement if the East Boston-Chelsea-Revere streetcars with trolleybuses, buses, and the extension of the East Boston Tunnel (now the Blue line).
Look forward to your question.
A pair of midtrain lounge cars built for a prewar streamliner was resold in 1959 for further service, with the barber shops rebuilt into card rooms. The name of one of the two cars was changed to reflect the new run's endpoints, the other was unchanged. Car names, selling and buying railroads.
My guess is that the original owner was the NYCentral, for the 20th Century, and the second owner was the GM&O, with Chicago remaining Chicago, and New York becoming St. Louis. Just guessing.
Car's weren't named after cities. As a hint, both cars had two word names before and after the sale.
Rob and All:
Are you looking for the NYC Atlantic Shore and Lake Shore? Both show at post WWII cars and were sold to the RI in 3/1959.
The Atlantic Shore became the Pacific Shore, while the Lake Shore remained the Lake Shore.
Ed Burns
That would be them. They only lasted until about 1966 in Golden State service, being replaced by a club-diner or grill car after the GS was cut back to El Paso. From RI Technical society records, Pacific (Atlantic) Shore survived on the RI until 1979, eventually ending up at the Western New York Railway Historical Society.
Your question, Ed!
The Great Northern's Winnipeg Limited carried an RPO car from St. Paul to Noyes, Minnesota. Why wasn't the carried to Winnipeg for operating convenience?
Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis,
Possibly if if ran through to Winnapeg, two cars would be required instead of one. And it was a car for USA mail only. It was not under Canadian regulations, and mail picked up on the trip to Noyes for return to St. Paul and forwarding might have required custom inspection, etc. of the car, unnecessarily delaying the train.
I think the characteristic of dropping the RPO just before or at the border was characteristics of most USA-Canada and USA-Mexico trains. There were probabloy exceptions arranged by both governmentns, but they must have been rare if any. I suspect most USA-Canada and USA-Mexico mail went in closed-puch service in mail storage cars,in the days before air-mail was common.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter