Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

[henry6]

Rochester, MN....Mayo Clinic....then: tongue depresser?  Stethescope?  R----l thermometer? 

[AWP290]

If I recall correctly these cars had a special side door for the admission of stretcher patients en route to the Mayo Clinic, it being impossible to get stretchers around the sharp turns in a Pullman aisle. (A lesson re-learned in WWII with hospital cars converted from standard Pullmans.)  Don't know which of the accommodations had this door.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

Good job Bob. You beat me to it with what I think is the correct answer. I hope you weren't affected by the recent floods in the Atlanta area.

Mark

[Deggesty]

AWP290

If I recall correctly these cars had a special side door for the admission of stretcher patients en route to the Mayo Clinic, it being impossible to get stretchers around the sharp turns in a Pullman aisle. (A lesson re-learned in WWII with hospital cars converted from standard Pullmans.)  Don't know which of the accommodations had this door.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

Sorry, Henry; the picture of "Ephraim McDowell" in Kratville's Passenger Car Catalog (p. 43), does not show anything unusual hanging on the car. You are right,though, to connect the car with the Mayo Clinic

Yes, Mark, Bob is right, in essence. Now, I find it interesting that even though the cars were supposedly built in 1929, the June, 1930, issue of the Guide does not list this arrangement of accomodations in the equipment of the Rochester-Minnesota Special. It is listed in the February, 1950 issue, complete with a description of the exterior two doors that are opposite the interior doors to Bedrooms C and D (B&C, and D&E, could be sold en suite.). Thus a stretcher could be taken directly into C and D, provided, of course, that you had a platform or a lift beside the exterior doors.

Also of interest is the drawing of the floor plan, and the photograph of "Ephraim McDowell," both of which show a third exterior side door at the end of the section section of the car. Apparently it was there to permit bringing a stretcher in so it could be carried into the drawing room, but I have seen no mention of this door at all.

Joseph Lister was the pioneer in the use of antiseptics (we all know of a product named for him). Ephraim McDowell also emphasized extreme cleanliness, especially in surgical procedures. He performed the first ovariotomy--without anesthesia--successfully (look him up in Wikipedia; not mentioned in the Wikipedia article is the patient's way of keeping her mind off what Dr. McDowell was doing--she sang hymns throughout the whole procedure).

So, Bob, you have the honor of proposing a question.

Johnny

[AWP290]

Thanks, Mark, for your concern, but my only problem with the floods in Atlanta was that of inconvenience.  A great many roads were flooded, washed out, or both making getting around metro-Atlanta an obstacle course.  Also, US 78 (the Stone Mountain Freeway) was completely blocked by a mud slide!  This is the only time I've ever heard of this happening anywhere in Georgia!

 Oh, yeah - the NS main line was completely washed out between Atlanta and Birmingham/Chattanooga.

 Now, back to our program....

While the Georgia Railroad never operated any full dining car service, in the 1920's it offered Pullman-operated food service in Pullman parlor-broiler-buffet cars.  There were two sets of cars (four total) that provided this service.  Name any one of them.  (I know this is an obscure question - aren't they all? - but I also know of two different sources where the info is available.)

 

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[Texas Zepher]

AWP290

it offered Pullman-operated food service in Pullman parlor-broiler-buffet cars.

Well, I've found several references to parlor-broiler-buffet cars but none seem to have any possible relation with the Georgia Railroad.    I can find a few references to the Georgia Railroad but it is all coach equipment.

[Deggesty]

Texas Zepher

AWP290

it offered Pullman-operated food service in Pullman parlor-broiler-buffet cars.

Well, I've found several references to parlor-broiler-buffet cars but none seem to have any possible relation with the Georgia Railroad.    I can find a few references to the Georgia Railroad but it is all coach equipment.

I also have been unable to find any reference to Pullman broiler or buffet-parlor cars that is tied to the Georgia. Indeed, the floor plans shown in Kratville's Passenger Car Catalog do not show any facility for preparing food in the buffet-parlor cars built before 1930; floor plans of cars that were rebuilt after 1930 do show some facilities. That there is no reference to the Georgia RR in our sources does not, of course, mean that Pullman never operated such cars on the Georgia, as some cars were built for general service. And, cars that were built for specific service that were later replaced could well have ended up in general service or on particular trians of other roads.

Alastair (renamed Rumson in 1929) and Angeline (18 seats-Buffet-Lounge) were built for the Royal Blue in 1916. Also built in 1916, for NH general service were four 18 seat-Lounge cars, named Charles River, Charter Oak, Fall River, and Fox Point.

The June, 1930, Guide, shows a Pullman parlor car on the afternoon trains from Atlanta and from Augusta; in the Twenties there may well have been parlor service on the morning trains from both cities as well--which would have have required the use of four cars.

I have no other ideas.

Johnny

[AWP290]

Maybe we ought to cut this one loose and move on to another question.  Apparently I got a tad too esoteric on this one.  The cars I'm looking for are Aiken, Augusta, Penelope, and Gertrude.  The former two providing service in the earlier years and the latter pair replacing them.  Only the afternoon trains provided this service which was ended in 1927.

Mark, you were apparently only seconds behind me in providing the answer to the CGW question, so would you like to field the next one?

 

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

After that toughie about the Georgia RR's Pullmans I'll change the pace and throw out one that should be pretty easy.

In the 1940's and '50's the route of what through passenger train took it over more different railroads than any other. Do not count trackage rights or terminal railroads such as the TRRA; just the roads for which a passenger travelling the entire route would have a ticket coupon.

Also name all the railroads that handled this train and the cities/towns which it ran between on each road.

Mark 

[AWP290]

The most roads in one route that I can come up with are six.

 Am I even in the ball park?

 (And this one is supposed to be easier than the previous question?)

 Bob

[KCSfan]

AWP290

The most roads in one route that I can come up with are six.

 Am I even in the ball park?

 (And this one is supposed to be easier than the previous question?)

 Bob

Bob,

You're not only in the ball park but you're close to scoring a run. The train I had in mind ran over six roads. Just name the train, the different roads over which it ran and the end point cities/towns of each roads segment of the route.

Of course there's a possibility someone else knows of a route involving more railroads that I've overlooked

Mark

 

[Deggesty]

The only one with six that I could think of was the Dixie Flagler, before the AB&C was folded into the ACL.

C&EI: Chicago-Evansville

L&N: Evansville-Nashville

NC&StL: Nashville-Atlanta

AB&C: Atlanta-Waycross

ACL: Waycross-Jacksonville

FEC: Jacksonville-Miami

Johnny

[AWP290]

The Dixie Flyer/Dixie Limited ran over six roads until 1952, when they were rerouted via ACL (former AB&C) out of Atlanta.  Until that time the routing was C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC.

And Johnny, I thought of the Dixie Flagler  on the AB&C, too, but felt that the 1950's portion of Mark's question.  We're on the same lines, anyway.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

The Dixie Flagler is the train I had in mind and Johnny's 100% correct about its route. Bob, I thought the Dixie Flyer/Dixie Ltd ran only to Jacksonville and not on to Miami over the FEC. I believe they did however carry through sleepers to both west coast points and Miami that ran in connecting trains of the ACL and FEC south of Jacksonville. If you're correct about either running over the FEC to Miami then you and Johnny will have to toss a coin (or cut cards or arm wrestle) to see who gets to ask the next question.

Mark

[AWP290]

No need to toss a coin, Johnny was first in with the answer, no question about it.

According to an AAR booklet dated 1948, both the Flyer and the Limited ran through to Miami via the route mentioned. (C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC)

The Flagler, by this time (1948) ran via C&EI/NC&StL/L&N/ACL/FEC.

Go to it, Johnny!

 Bob

[Deggesty]

AWP290

No need to toss a coin, Johnny was first in with the answer, no question about it.

According to an AAR booklet dated 1948, both the Flyer and the Limited ran through to Miami via the route mentioned. (C&EI/L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL/FEC)

The Flagler, by this time (1948) ran via C&EI/NC&StL/L&N/ACL/FEC.

Go to it, Johnny!

 Bob

I had my doubts about the Dixie Flyer and Dixie Limited running through as separate trains to Miami--but, there have been so many variations in East Coast and Middle West-Florida service that one would have to have a complete file of Guides or timetables to be absolutely certain about any statement as to how and when any one train went.

New question: In the summer of 1925, the Pullman company operated a sleeper line between West Yellowstone, Mont., and Jacksonville, Fla. This service apparently did not ring a bell with the traveling public, since it was for one summer season only. Unless you have the actual information (I don't), don't bother about train names or the times of day. Tell us what railroads handled the car, and where it was switched from one road to another.

Johnny

[wanswheel]

  Mark, good luck at your new address: 77 Sunset Strip

Johnny, is this the route?

UP - West Yellowstone to Kansas City

Wabash - Kansas City to St. Louis

L&N - St. Louis to Nashville

NC&SL - Nashville to Atlanta

C of G - Atlanta to Albany

ACL - Albany to Jacksonville

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

  Mark, good luck at your new address: 77 Sunset Strip

Johnny, is this the route?

UP - West Yellowstone to Kansas City

Wabash - Kansas City to St. Louis

L&N - St. Louis to Nashville

NC&SL - Nashville to Atlanta

C of G - Atlanta to Albany

ACL - Albany to Jacksonville

Mike

That's it, Mike. Would you be able to find a picture of one of the cars on its way to or from West Yellowstone? Peter Maiken, in his Night Trains, did not tell us what accommodations the car had; he simply said that it ran that summer.

You, of of course now have the obligation to ask us a question.

As an aside, are you following the discussion of "Gasoline Powered Loco" in General Discussion in the Trains Magazine Forum?

Johnny

 

 

[henry6]

If he doesn't have pics, then they don't exist!

[wanswheel]

Where on what railroad did the Train of Tomorrow go on its inaugural run?

Mike

[daveklepper]

The Baltimore and Ohio according to my somewhat dim memory.

[henry6]

Or was it the NYO&W?

[passengerfan]

I believe it traveled on the MONON from Chicago to French Lick and back.

Al - in - Stockton

[wanswheel]

Al, yes the Monon, 278 miles Chicago Dearborn to French Lick Springs Hotel, May 26, 1947. Return trip the next day. Your turn.

[daveklepper]

Before we leave the Train of Tomorrow, I believe its eventual assignment, where I rode it, was in Seattle - Portland pool service.  Which railroad actually operated it?   NP. UP, or GN?

[Texas Zepher]

The UP purchased the equipment for the pool, but it was a pool service.  All three would have operated the equipment.   I never thought about it before but I wonder if that included the locomotive....

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

The UP purchased the equipment for the pool, but it was a pool service.  All three would have operated the equipment.   I never thought about it before but I wonder if that included the locomotive....

The UP purchased the E7 as well and originally assigned it to there pool train between Portland and Seattle. But the UP always charged a premium to ride the dome cars on there pool train except for the dome dining car. Rode the train many times when the domes were operated. The NP and the UP were the big guns of the Seattle - Portland pool the GN never even operated a full dining car as did the others. The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al - in - Stockton

Will have a question ready in a couple of hours. Have to get a couple of clients taxes done first.

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al, the Seattle-Chicago car had to go back to Portland on the NP day train, along with the Seattle-San Francisco cars, since UP 458 came into Portland about nine in the evening. So this car also had to be moved to the GN/NP coach yard.

In 1950, the GN said that its train (459 & 460) had a diner, and the NP said that its day train, (407 & 408) had a restaurant car. All of the day trains had parlor cars then.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

The UP brought a through Chicago - Seattle sleeping car from the City of Portland north from Portland as well as four SP sleeping cars from the Cascade. Once in Seattle the four SP sleeping cars were moved from Union Station to King St. Station under the Fourth Ave viaduct where they taken to the GN / NP coach yard for departure the next day on the NP pool train to Portland and the connection with that days southbound SP Cascade. Tickets were interchangeable from any of the three RRs that operated the pool trains.  

Al, the Seattle-Chicago car had to go back to Portland on the NP day train, along with the Seattle-San Francisco cars, since UP 458 came into Portland about nine in the evening. So this car also had to be moved to the GN/NP coach yard.

In 1950, the GN said that its train (459 & 460) had a diner, and the NP said that its day train, (407 & 408) had a restaurant car. All of the day trains had parlor cars then.

Johnny

Only remember the GN train having an attendant selling sandwiches, and drinks at ones seat on there pool train. Remember the NP had a full dining car a half lounge half Parlor car guess that would be about 1954 or 1955. If memory serves me right there was also an overnight pool train operated by each road for about three months at a time. Never rode the night train. The southbound UP train made connections with the Portland Rose out of Portland.

My question is name the GN lightweight streamlined Glacier series sleeping cars?

Al in Stockton 

[Texas Zepher]

passengerfan

My question is name the GN lightweight streamlined Glacier series sleeping cars?

Delivered in 1947 for the first light weight Empire Builder:
#1170 Blackfoot Glacier
#1171 Ahern Glacier
#1172 Grinnell Glacier
#1173 Hanging Glacier
#1174 Many Glacier
#1175 Oberlin Glacier
#1176 Sexton Glacier
#1177 Harrison Glacier
#1178 Sperry Glacier - CB&Q car pooled to Empire Builder service
#1179 Siyeh Glacier - CB&Q
 

Then there was new equipment delivered in 1950 for the Western Star.  These were needed for a 6th set of trains needed for the new slower schedule.  These sleepers were in addition to the ones handed down from the Empire Builder when they outfitted the Mid-Century Builder:

#1181 Kintla Glacier
#1182 Agassiz Glacier
#1183 Hudson Glacier
#1184 Chaney Glacier
#1185 Paradise Glacier
#1186 Pumpelly Glacier
#1187 Tahoma Glacier
#1188 Two Ocean Glaicer

I have no idea what happened to #1180 and how it ended up being a different floor plan ("Pass" series) very confusing.