So, go ahead and answer the question. As thoroughly and completely as you can.
daveklepper More hints necesary for this chacteristic? The South Shore was the one Insull interurban that DID NOT have this characteristic. Neither did Chicago Suface Lines or the IC.
More hints necesary for this chacteristic? The South Shore was the one Insull interurban that DID NOT have this characteristic. Neither did Chicago Suface Lines or the IC.
Does it have something to do with mode of receipt of electrical power?
Until about three years ago, the Skokie Swift (which was the first leg of the North Shore's Skokie Valley Route), ran from Howard St. on the Evanston border to Dempster St. in Skokie. Up to about halfway on its (westward) run, near the shops, where the tracks come down to ground level (everything prior is either elevated or in a culvert), a key change took place. Heading west, the operator would obey the "Pan Up" sign and raise the pantograph to catenary wire, which came into play just after the third-rail came to an end. Mostly this was done on the fly and the interval of switching modes from shoe to pantograph (or vice-versa coming east from Skokie to Evanston) involved at most a second or two of darkness.
I've had the privilege of seeing the "pan" on an opposite-heading train go up or down. Now, the wires have been decomissioned and trains run on "shoe" the entire Skokie Swift route. CTA had to add extra safety gates to protect pedestrians at level crossings (which are numerous), but AFAIK no one has been harmed since the switchover. Now that there are no overhead wires to freeze, get brittle or bogged down and snap during heavy snows or ice storms, service during inclement weather is more reliable. - al
Need another hint? Visually, the Washington Baltimore and Annapolis did the same thing visually (again with technical differences), but not the Baaltimore and Annapolis successor, and so did the Shore Line Electric, the PRR subsidiary interurban between Atlantic City and Ocean City, New Jersey (which shared tracks in Atlantic City with the local streetcar line, also once PRR owned). Lots of other examples in the old days.
But there isn't any rapid transit line that duplicates the power change you are discussing. Amtrak does it several times between NY and Boston.
Again, from the above it is obvious. What separates the Blue Line from all other rapid transit lines in North America? And which commuter line does exactly the same thing visualy, although with technical differences? The Blue line only started this practice in November 1952. Berfore then it didn't need to do so in regular passenger service, although it did do something similar at the other end of the line for shop moves for very major overhaul and repair, which became unnecessary after November 1952.
I know about 18 different lines that did the same thing, visually, during the 1930's, with 16 now gone, and other readers might name more. These are individual lines. In one case four belonged to one system, and two to another.
And today you have NJT's power change at Kearney for Mid Town Direct service from the former DL&W main to the PRR Corridor and again at Matawan on the former NY&LB now NJCoast line.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Hasn't anyone ridden the Blue Line? There is also a Red Line and and Orange Line. The Blue Line cars could run on the Orange Line, and also, but not in passenger service, on the Red Line. The Green is somewhat different and not really compatable and consists actually of several operating routs and several abandoned. The Purple is very different and may have as many as seventeen services. And the Silver in controversial and very incompatible indeed.
Maybe I am too vague on the question. Both the single rapid transit line, no other like it currently in the USA or Canada, although there were several others at one time, and the one commuter line, same thing may be said, have one characteristic in common in that an important change occurs during each trip. And to an observer, the change is the same. However, there is a technical difference. And there were streetcar and interurban lines that featured the same kind of change.
daveklepper The South Shore changed technology during its history, moving from AC to DC IN TIME, BUT NOT AT A LOCATION. Similarly, the IC Suburban went from steam to electric, a change in time but not location. And both are commuter railroads. Regarding Al's question. I could say the commuter railroad and the particular rapid transit line are in different geographical locations. Except for this: It would be possible to actually operate the latest commuter equpment of the commuter line to a station within easy walking distance of a station on the rapid transit line, or one could take the local transit system, using two heavy rail rapid transit lines, to make the connection, or use a local bus, or use heavy rail and light rail. But none of the current and new commuter equipment has made that trip. Maybe someday it will, on a fan trip or for testing if similar commuter equipment were planned for the geographical location of the rapid transit line. (When I was ERA President we did, after all, run ex-PRR MP-54's to New Haven and New Canaan.) And it could provide commuter service there on one line, doing a considerably better job from several points of view than the existing latest equpment. Earlier commuter equipment (possibly defined as interurban or rapid transit equipment, depending on your point of view) did make that trip and served as commuter equpment in the rapid transit line's geographical area until replaced by downgraded six-wheel-truck air-conditioned parlor cars reseated for commuter sevice. But the technology of the relocated equpment was changed, for this essentially temporary new assignement, replacing wood equipment until the downgraded parlor cars were available..
The South Shore changed technology during its history, moving from AC to DC IN TIME, BUT NOT AT A LOCATION. Similarly, the IC Suburban went from steam to electric, a change in time but not location. And both are commuter railroads.
Regarding Al's question. I could say the commuter railroad and the particular rapid transit line are in different geographical locations. Except for this: It would be possible to actually operate the latest commuter equpment of the commuter line to a station within easy walking distance of a station on the rapid transit line, or one could take the local transit system, using two heavy rail rapid transit lines, to make the connection, or use a local bus, or use heavy rail and light rail. But none of the current and new commuter equipment has made that trip. Maybe someday it will, on a fan trip or for testing if similar commuter equipment were planned for the geographical location of the rapid transit line. (When I was ERA President we did, after all, run ex-PRR MP-54's to New Haven and New Canaan.) And it could provide commuter service there on one line, doing a considerably better job from several points of view than the existing latest equpment. Earlier commuter equipment (possibly defined as interurban or rapid transit equipment, depending on your point of view) did make that trip and served as commuter equpment in the rapid transit line's geographical area until replaced by downgraded six-wheel-truck air-conditioned parlor cars reseated for commuter sevice. But the technology of the relocated equpment was changed, for this essentially temporary new assignement, replacing wood equipment until the downgraded parlor cars were available..
Thanks for the clarification, Dave! I was going to point out that the M-series trainsets running on LIRR in the 1970s - 80s looked VERY similar to the cars the old IND division of New York City's subway system was operating at the same time. They both used "shoe," of course, but I think the voltages may have varied. They are both standard-gauge, but there would have been clearance and curve issues that probably would have kept the LIRR stock from negotiating even the IND's relatively spacious statistics.
But I'm not offering this as an answer because there have got to be more succinct matches out there. Therefore I don't want to cite LIRR (orig. PRR) history, or that of the IND.
I'll keep watching and wondering! al
I
Now you've moved me east to Philadelphia and t he Philadelphia and Western (Norristown High Speed Line) vs the PRR parallel (sorta, cross the river like) line. Now both under SEPTA. Third rail and catenary make the difference. So the "new" cars were those brought from Chicago. Details escape me in my morning fog.
I'm going to throw some wood on the fire here because I don't have the full answer but...
...IC and South Shore are the two properties that come to mind and the equipment interchange has to do with car hieghts at stations and couplers. One is/was a railroad the other an interurban. There were other lines, like the North Shore and other Insull properties in Chicago Land.
daveklepper Interestingly, after I posted my reply (and left the hotel where I used the computer with an internet connection, since I still don't have one of my own and am using one at the Hebrew U at the present time). I realized the National Limited was a B&O train, not a PRR, and that I had meant the Liberty Limited. I also wanted to ask the question of whether the Spirit of St, Louis had been introduced with the Fleet of Modernism or had ever existed as a heavyweight all-Pullman train? You have answered that question for me, so that is the right answer of course. The 7th Day of Passover and the preparations for it prevented returning before now. I hope everyone had a fine Easter. Jerusalem was very very crowded with Christian pilgrims, and I am glad they found things peaceful and under control. In walking in Jerusalem, I had to detour because some narrow Old City streets were jammed with Christian pilgrims and other areas were closed except for people headed for a particular church or shrine. I hope they all got to pray where they wanted to pray! My question: There is one commuter USA railroad and one USA so-called "heavy-rail" rapid transit line that have one characteristic in common. And this characteristic is not shared by any other railroad, commuter railroad, rapid transit, or light rail line in the USA or Canada, just these two. But there used to be possibly over 40 throughout the USA! 1. What is the technical characterstic. (And both are standard gauge, but don't try running one line's equipment on the other under power!) 2. Which are the two lines. Who owns them now, who built them, give as much history as you can. 3. At what point on each line does the technical characteristic best manifest itself, both now and originally. 4. What is different technically about the two lines that prevents them from ever thinking of interchanging equipment. 5. Name similar operations that used to exist, including system name, specific lines, and locations for the "point" discussed above. Hint: There are examples in all types of rail operations, including on-street streetcars if you stretch a point just a little. 1 through 4 are necessary for a right answer. 5 is optional, but do what you can!
Interestingly, after I posted my reply (and left the hotel where I used the computer with an internet connection, since I still don't have one of my own and am using one at the Hebrew U at the present time). I realized the National Limited was a B&O train, not a PRR, and that I had meant the Liberty Limited. I also wanted to ask the question of whether the Spirit of St, Louis had been introduced with the Fleet of Modernism or had ever existed as a heavyweight all-Pullman train? You have answered that question for me, so that is the right answer of course. The 7th Day of Passover and the preparations for it prevented returning before now. I hope everyone had a fine Easter. Jerusalem was very very crowded with Christian pilgrims, and I am glad they found things peaceful and under control. In walking in Jerusalem, I had to detour because some narrow Old City streets were jammed with Christian pilgrims and other areas were closed except for people headed for a particular church or shrine. I hope they all got to pray where they wanted to pray!
My question: There is one commuter USA railroad and one USA so-called "heavy-rail" rapid transit line that have one characteristic in common. And this characteristic is not shared by any other railroad, commuter railroad, rapid transit, or light rail line in the USA or Canada, just these two. But there used to be possibly over 40 throughout the USA!
1. What is the technical characterstic. (And both are standard gauge, but don't try running one line's equipment on the other under power!)
2. Which are the two lines. Who owns them now, who built them, give as much history as you can.
3. At what point on each line does the technical characteristic best manifest itself, both now and originally.
4. What is different technically about the two lines that prevents them from ever thinking of interchanging equipment.
5. Name similar operations that used to exist, including system name, specific lines, and locations for the "point" discussed above. Hint: There are examples in all types of rail operations, including on-street streetcars if you stretch a point just a little.
1 through 4 are necessary for a right answer. 5 is optional, but do what you can!
Intriguing question, dk! May I ask for a clarification: are that one commuter-rail line and that one heavy-rail line located in the same metro area? -- Speaking broadly, such as Southern California, NW Indiana/Chicago or NY/NJ, that sort of thing...?
daveklepperI am guessing: The National Limited or the Spirit of St. Louis, In addition to carrying cars from New York, cars from Washington via Baltimore and the Baltimore Northern route were added at Harrisburgh, and at Pittsburgh, cars were dropped for St. Louis and posibly Cincninnati. The introduction of the streamlined version in 1938 obviously put and end to this practice.
I am guessing: The National Limited or the Spirit of St. Louis, In addition to carrying cars from New York, cars from Washington via Baltimore and the Baltimore Northern route were added at Harrisburgh, and at Pittsburgh, cars were dropped for St. Louis and posibly Cincninnati.
The introduction of the streamlined version in 1938 obviously put and end to this practice.
My guess would be the Liberty Limited as it was accorded almost equal status to the Broadway and the two joined at Harrisburg for the trip to Chicago. I would also think it ended in the 1938 streamlining of the Broadway and the introduction of the Fleet of Modernism. What year they were combined would probably be about 1931 or 32 when the depression was at its worst.Al - in - Stockton
Actually you and Passengerfan got all three parts of the question in your responses.
First off, the National Limited was a B&O train.
The Broadway was combined with the Spirit of St. Louis between New York and Pittsburgh.
This was done briefly from February through April 1932, at which time the Spirit of St. Louis received coaches and lost its extra-fare and the Broadway became independent again and kept its all-Pullman status.
Daveklepper, since you got two of the three parts of the question, the next question is yours.
My guess would be the Liberty Limited as it was accorded almost equal status to the Broadway and the two joined at Harrisburg for the trip to Chicago. I would also think it ended in the 1938 streamlining of the Broadway and the introduction of the Fleet of Modernism. What year they were combined would probably be about 1931 or 32 when the depression was at its worst.
Al - in - Stockton
DeggestyNext question, please.
Next question, please.
Despite the status the PRR accorded the Broadway Limited, it wasn't immune to the cost saving measures that were forced on other PRR long distance trains on the onset of the Great Depression. What train was the Broadway Limited combined with, the combined endpoints and approximately how long did this occur?
ZephyrOverlandYou are right, I did miss some of the through east and west coast Florida cars carried on the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland. Those trains were officially Chicago-Jacksonville runs and through cars were carried in other FEC and ACL trains south of Jacksonville.
You are right; these trains ceased to exist, as such, in Jacksonville. Just think of the activity in the Jacksonville station as the various trains came in and cars were shifted from one track to another so that each car went to its designated destination. This was definitely flat, not hump, shifting. The shifting that took place in the sixties and until 1 May 1971 was nothing compared to this.
Have you come up with another question yet?
Johnny
DeggestyBut, you missed the southern termini on some of the trains. The Floridan and the Florida Arrow both had cars to Miami, Sarasota, and St. Pete, and the Dixieland had cars to Miami, Tampa and St. Pete. That's nine gigs.Over the years of the operation of Chicago-Florida trains, there was a great variety in schedules--at one time, the Floridan, the Florida Arrow, and Dixieland were all-Pullman winter trains, and were operated much the same way as the all-coach streamliners were--each one was every third day.
But, you missed the southern termini on some of the trains. The Floridan and the Florida Arrow both had cars to Miami, Sarasota, and St. Pete, and the Dixieland had cars to Miami, Tampa and St. Pete. That's nine gigs.
You are right, I did miss some of the through east and west coast Florida cars carried on the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland. Those trains were officially Chicago-Jacksonville runs and through cars were carried in other FEC and ACL trains south of Jacksonville.
For the 1940-1941 winter season, the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland were daily trains, but the following season, they operated as all-Pullman trains on an alternating third day schedule. In addition, there were another trio of trains, the Jacksonian, Dixieana, and Sunchaser, that were coach-Pullman runs again operating on an alternating third day schedule. Those trains were cut shortly after they began because of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
ZephyrOverland Deggesty New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.) City of Miami IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-MiamiDixieland C&EI CHI-Evansvillke LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nasahville-Atlanta AB&C Atlanta-Waycross ACL Waycross-JacksonvilleDixie Flagler C&EI - CHI-Evansville LN Evansville-NAshville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta AB&C Atlanta-Waycross ACL Waycross-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-MiamiDixie Flyer C&EI Chicago-Evansville LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleDixie Limited C&EI Chicago-Evansville LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleFlamingo PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville(Through sleeper only CHI-JAX)Florida Arrow PRR Chicago-Louisville L&N Louisville-Montgomery ACL Montgomery-JacksonvilleFlorida Sunbeam B4 Chicago-Cinicnnati SR Cincinnati-Hampton SAL Hampton-Miami(Through CHI-Miami sleeper only) Floridan IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvillePonce de Leon B4 Chicago-Cincinnati SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)Royal Palm B4 Chicago-Cincinnati SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only) Seminole IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleSouth Wind PRR Chicasgo-Louisville L&N Louisville-Montgomery ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-Miami Southland - East Coast Section PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville Southland - West Coast Section PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-St. Petersburg/Tampa-Ft. Meyers(East and West Coast sections ran separately south of Cincinnati - West Coast section carried only through CHI-St. Petersburg and Chicago-Ft. Meyers sleepers)
Deggesty New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)
New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)
City of Miami IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-MiamiDixieland C&EI CHI-Evansvillke LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nasahville-Atlanta AB&C Atlanta-Waycross ACL Waycross-JacksonvilleDixie Flagler C&EI - CHI-Evansville LN Evansville-NAshville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta AB&C Atlanta-Waycross ACL Waycross-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-MiamiDixie Flyer C&EI Chicago-Evansville LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleDixie Limited C&EI Chicago-Evansville LN Evansville-Nashville NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleFlamingo PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville(Through sleeper only CHI-JAX)Florida Arrow PRR Chicago-Louisville L&N Louisville-Montgomery ACL Montgomery-JacksonvilleFlorida Sunbeam B4 Chicago-Cinicnnati SR Cincinnati-Hampton SAL Hampton-Miami(Through CHI-Miami sleeper only) Floridan IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvillePonce de Leon B4 Chicago-Cincinnati SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)Royal Palm B4 Chicago-Cincinnati SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only) Seminole IC Chicago-Birmingham CoG Birnimgham-Albany ACL Albany-JacksonvilleSouth Wind PRR Chicasgo-Louisville L&N Louisville-Montgomery ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville FEC Jacksonville-Miami
Southland - East Coast Section PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville Southland - West Coast Section PRR Chicago-Cincinnati L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta CoG Atlanta-Albany ACL Albany-St. Petersburg/Tampa-Ft. Meyers(East and West Coast sections ran separately south of Cincinnati - West Coast section carried only through CHI-St. Petersburg and Chicago-Ft. Meyers sleepers)
Over the years of the operation of Chicago-Florida trains, there was a great variety in schedules--at one time, the Floridan, the Florida Arrow, and Dixieland were all-Pullman winter trains, and were operated much the same way as the all-coach streamliners were--each one was every third day. At the moment, I do not remember just what year it was., and I do not want to go upstairs and find a guide with the schedule in it; then, again, I may have to find an ACL schedule that shows this.
The 1971 train was, of course, the City of Miami, which had through cars to Miami, Tampa, and St. Pete.
DeggestyNew question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)
daveklepper Johnny, you are clearly the winner with your Zephyr timing. And I think this is the correct top speed. But, in addition to checking the next question, please check times and miles for the Super Chief and El Cap east of La Junta.
Johnny, you are clearly the winner with your Zephyr timing. And I think this is the correct top speed. But, in addition to checking the next question, please check times and miles for the Super Chief and El Cap east of La Junta.
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,524 Minneapolis
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,520 LaCrosse
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,243 LaCrosse
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,255 LaCrosse
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,254 Coach
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,258 Coach
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,248 Child
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,249 Twins?
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,257 Dining
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,424 Dining
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,247 Waiter
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,261 Waiters
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,423 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,401 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,402 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,253 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,259 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,264 Dome
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,260 Parlor
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,263 Parlor
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,403 Cards
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,250 Schlitz
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,431 Chicago
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,432 Chicago
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,22 Chicago
http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,256 Obs
DeggestyZephyrOverlandI'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois. Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami. They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different. I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on. Yes, each route was different as to miles covered. Here are the distances, from the January, 1941, Guide. South Wind (PRR, Chicago-Louisville; L&N, Louisville-Montgomery; ACL, Montgomery-Jacksonville): 1,183.2 City of Miami (IC, Chicago-Birmingham; CG Birmingham-Albany, ACL, Albany-Jacksonville): 1,127.9 Dixie Flagler (C&EI, Chicago-Evansville; L&N, Evansville-Nashville; NC&SL, Nashville-Atlanta; AB&C, Atlanta-Waycross; ACL, Waycross-Jacksonville): 1079.3
ZephyrOverlandI'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois. Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami. They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different. I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on.
Yes, each route was different as to miles covered. Here are the distances, from the January, 1941, Guide.
South Wind (PRR, Chicago-Louisville; L&N, Louisville-Montgomery; ACL, Montgomery-Jacksonville): 1,183.2
City of Miami (IC, Chicago-Birmingham; CG Birmingham-Albany, ACL, Albany-Jacksonville): 1,127.9
Dixie Flagler (C&EI, Chicago-Evansville; L&N, Evansville-Nashville; NC&SL, Nashville-Atlanta; AB&C, Atlanta-Waycross; ACL, Waycross-Jacksonville): 1079.3
I stand corrected concerning the average miles per hour each train needed to make to maintain the overall schedule. The South Wind had to maintain the highest average miles per hour between Chicago and Jacksonville.
KCSfanDeggesty January, 1941 CM Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all. Johnny, I am really shocked by those 1941 speeds of the City if Miami. I expected them to be close to the much faster post war schedules. Champaign to Effingham was the IC's racetrack. It was double track, almost straight as an arrow and, IIRC, had in-cab signallaing the entire way. I rode both the City of Miami and the City of New Orleans over that line several times in the early '50's. I know for a fact the CofNO would regularly hit 100+ mph over parts of the route and believe the CofM was equally, or nearly, as fast.
Deggesty January, 1941 CM Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all.
January, 1941
CM Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all.
Johnny,
I am really shocked by those 1941 speeds of the City if Miami. I expected them to be close to the much faster post war schedules. Champaign to Effingham was the IC's racetrack. It was double track, almost straight as an arrow and, IIRC, had in-cab signallaing the entire way. I rode both the City of Miami and the City of New Orleans over that line several times in the early '50's. I know for a fact the CofNO would regularly hit 100+ mph over parts of the route and believe the CofM was equally, or nearly, as fast.
I'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois. Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami. They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different. I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on.
CM
The "Q" schedules I cited were those listed in my 1937 OG. The schedules of the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs apparently were speeded up sometime between then and 1941.
Mark
KCSfan Homewood was not a station stop for the IC's through trains in pre-WW2 times. With the exception of the Champaign local they all ran non-stop between 63rd St. in Chicago and Kankakee. The Green Diamond averaged 69.7 mph between Kankakee and Clinton, a distance of 92.7 miles. I'm pretty sure this was the fastest station to station time on the IC prior to the inauguration of the City of Miami in 1940. I don't have a 1940 or '41 OG. If someone else has one for either of those years, check the CofM's times between Kankakee and Champaign and between Champaign and Effingham, one of which will be the fastest pre-war schedule of any IC train. Post-war the City of Miami ran the 71.4 miles between Champaign and Effingham (with an intermediate flag stop at Mattoon) in 53 minutes for an average speed of 80.8 mph. I expect the pre-war schedule was just about as fast. I believe the Burlington's fastest station to station time was between East Dubuque and Prarie du Chiene, a distance of 54 miles. Both the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs had schedules that averaged 72 mph between these two station stops. Mark
Homewood was not a station stop for the IC's through trains in pre-WW2 times. With the exception of the Champaign local they all ran non-stop between 63rd St. in Chicago and Kankakee. The Green Diamond averaged 69.7 mph between Kankakee and Clinton, a distance of 92.7 miles. I'm pretty sure this was the fastest station to station time on the IC prior to the inauguration of the City of Miami in 1940. I don't have a 1940 or '41 OG. If someone else has one for either of those years, check the CofM's times between Kankakee and Champaign and between Champaign and Effingham, one of which will be the fastest pre-war schedule of any IC train.
Post-war the City of Miami ran the 71.4 miles between Champaign and Effingham (with an intermediate flag stop at Mattoon) in 53 minutes for an average speed of 80.8 mph. I expect the pre-war schedule was just about as fast.
I believe the Burlington's fastest station to station time was between East Dubuque and Prarie du Chiene, a distance of 54 miles. Both the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs had schedules that averaged 72 mph between these two station stops.
MZ East Dubuque-Prairie du Chien: 39 minutes for 55 miles (the Q did not put tenths of miles in its timetables)–85 mph.
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