I appreciated Bob Johnston's comments on the changes in food service on certain trains on pages 18 and 19 in the October issue of Trains. Does the head of Amtrak want to go back to the days of news butchers and meal stops?
Last fall, I had my initial experience of the box meals served on board as I went from Chicago to Boston and returned to Chicago from Washington. The meals did not begin to come up to what had been served in diners on these trains.
This spring, i took the scenic route to Washington from Chicago so that I could eat in a diner--and the meals were as good as I had found them in previous years. Returning, from Boston, I found that the meals were better than they had been on my previous trip--but they still fell short of what Amtrak had served.
I have not always had pleasant table companions on diners, but I did not have any table companions on the trains which serve box lunches, even when other passengers were in the car at the sme time I was in the car.
Johnny
I completely agree.
To me, this may be likened unto the Parable of the Talents (Matt 25: 14 - 30).
Mr. Anderson is the man who buried his talents. He was given brand-new, state-of-the-art dining cars, which might have been leveraged to create more "wealth," ...and he buried them along with the traditional train-type service.
His is a vision that is timid, afraid.
From Parmenides, from Lucretius, from Shakespeare's King Lear, we learn that, "Nothing comes of nothing."
This is why this man is a failure as a manager.
+1
This is a Pork Loin Dinner served on VIA's 'Ocean'. An overnight train between Halifax and Montreal covering a distance very similar to Amtrak’s 'Lakeshore'.
There is no chef onboard. These meals come from an airline caterer. They are chilled then reheated in a convection over (not microwaved) replated then served. Meals are included for sleeper passengers but note at bottom of the menu.......coach passengers can purchase this meal for a fixed $19.
The meal was excellant....and note that chocolate-caramel cake for dessert!!!
All Amtrak trains originate where they would have access to an airline caterer for a similar meal service. “If there’s a will….there’s a way!”
And here’s Breakfast on the Ocean. And again.....no chef onboard and that omelet is heated in a convection oven and no different that what you would be served in Business Class on an airline (but VIA does prepare the toast onboard!!)
Looks good. Same system as on German Rail.
Always had a suspicion that a private airline type caterer could do a much better job than Amtrak can. You do have the minor problem of the equipment on Amtrak not currently being compatible with this type of service (food storage and they probably have microwaves vs. convective ovens). Reason I say that on the ovens is I have yet to eat anything that was seared or baked with a crust on it on an Amtrak train (which adds flavor). All seems to be frozen and then cooked. Though looking at Microwaves recently there is now a Kitchen Aid model that has a built in finishing oven that will crisp or brown food. Costs a lot of $$$ though. Anyhoo, back to topic. If they can make a profit or at least break even with type of service I would say go for it.
Even without a convective oven on board a chef with brains should be able to sear the meats or dishes in a skillet after microwaving to add flavor..........thats if they were ever trained to that skill level in the first place.
I would also like to see possibly an RFP for steam cleaning and vacuuming of Superliners between runs and compare it to what internally Amtrak spends in an attempt to do the same. Reason I mention that is internally on the Amtrak cars looks like the Carpeting hasn't been properly steam cleaned since the last rebuild on some of the cars with stains that can easily be lifted with stain remover still in the carpeting. Just seems Amtrak is not really trying for excellent service and just wants to get by in all areas with minimal effort and cost. Degrades the whole train riding experience and probably a big reason why Amtrak has problems raising prices.
As far as an RFP for cleaning and vacuuming Superliners between runs, it may depend on what's in existing labor contracts regarding outsourcing certain tasks..
When the railroads ran passenger service, they used full dining cars with chefs who made first-class meals. The railroads dropped passenger service because they were losing money.
Would it actually help Amtrak to spend the money to change over to airline-styled food service? Would more people ride long distance trains and pay more money because of better food service?
I guess, with my limited knowledge of railroads, if I comment on this subject, it's that in a country our size, with our highway system, low gas prices, fast and efficient airlines, etc., do we keep spending money on the dream of having long distance trains?
Anderson is mocked a lot on this forum, and maybe he deserves it. But at least he is trying to do something to change a bad situation.
I live 40 miles from an Amtrak station that, once a day, I can board a train and get to a limited number of places. I also live 40 miles from an airport that I can get flights many times a day to nearly every major and minor city in the country very quickly.
York1 John
Wasn't it RR Young that stated hogs got better handling than passengers?
Slop ths hogs, er passengers! No need to treat them like humans.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
Fully programmable microwave + convection ovens have been a 'thing' for some time, and in my experience adding a 'broiling' finishing element that does not damage magnetron output is not a difficult exercise. Keep in mind that the 'convection' feature is little more complex that a 'sous vide' stirrer with temperature control, using air instead of liquid...
Expanding this to the type of 'gang' convection oven used in rapid foodservice is more of an exercise, of course, and the alternative markets for such a device if built are relatively limited at present. In my opinion, though, they would have dramatic advantages for both fast-food and fast-casual businesses if programmed and used right. Their use in quality 'mobile' prep is a bully pulpit for more widespread adoption and use.
It was my understanding that at the beginning of this year the 'new' Viewliner diners were being fitted, or retrofitted in some cases, with gang convection ovens that could heat 24 portions at a time. Whether that includes programmability or individual heat/timing control by 'slot' I don't know... but it should not be easy to provide 'bleed doors' or a similar arrangement to give that functionality.
charlie hebdoI don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
I suspect they use more power, generate more heat..... and they are an increased fire hazzard which might trigger additional insurance or laws regarding how they are housed as well as ventilation. You'll notice in some of the various sub shops they avoid heating elements such as convective ovens to avoid the added insurance or leasing costs. Jimmy Johns is an example, Firehouse Subs uses boiling water to heat the innards of a sandwich which is in a plastic sealed packet.........that they then squeeze out onto the sandwich like tooth paste after it is heated. Firehouse subs are pretty good tasting as gross as it is to watch them prep the sandwich.
CMStPnP charlie hebdo I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with? I suspect they use more power, generate more heat..... and they are an increased fire hazzard which might trigger additional insurance or laws regarding how they are housed as well as ventilation. You'll notice in some of the various sub shops they avoid heating elements such as convective ovens to avoid the added insurance or leasing costs. Jimmy Johns is an example, Firehouse Subs uses boiling water to heat the innards of a sandwich which is in a plastic sealed packet.........that they then squeeze out onto the sandwich like tooth paste after it is heated. Firehouse subs are pretty good tasting as gross as it is to watch them prep the sandwich.
charlie hebdo I don't see why they can't upgrade to convective ovens. So much better. What were those white elephant Viewliner 2 diners equipped with?
Not a fan of either Jimmy Johns or Firehouse!
They use 20% less energy. They are hotter by 25 degrees but cook faster and more evenly.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-a-convection-oven/
If Deutsche Bahn can use them without problems, why not here?
Back when airlines served meals, I thought they used convection ovens to heat the hot part of the meal. My toaster oven is a convection oven. Don't understand the suggestion that convection ovens are fire hazard or an insurance problem.
I don't understand the supposed points about convection ovens using more power or being more of a hazard somehow, and I can't quite figure out where this stuff about no convection ovens in sub shops comes from.
The earlier consumer versions of convection ovens were just high-temperature recirculating fans that took the 'stratified' hot air in a conventional oven, mixed it up, and circulated it across the food. Later versions work as I indicated, a bit like a glorified hair dryer, with the heating element(s) in a tube outside the oven cavity and a system of dispensing and return vents channelling the airflow. You can have systems of 'blend doors' controlling the circulation pattern depending on what is supposed to be in the oven, and as noted have other types of direct heat or microwave radiation present.
As with hair dryers, the elements used can have very high power density and spectrum shifted to far IR without problems with drying out or overcooking the food. There are in fact some Ronco-style 'convection oven' plastic appliances that use little more than a cheap controlled hairdryer element and fan to circulate their 'hot air'.
Anyone who has spent more than about 2 minutes in a Subway knows that the idea of not having a radiant-heat oven in a 20' converted-storefront 'sub shop' is a crock. Any convection oven poses less venting difficulty than that; in fact a simple metal mesh filter like the ones on those combined microwave/vent hoods will work just fine for most potential exhaust heat or vapor releases. The problem that causes fits is the use of a grill of some sort (including the little roasting elements that gave the old Burger King patties their flavor) which require grease traps, positive fan venting, etc. etc. etc. not found and not wanted in strip-mall rental space. While theoretically a 'finish-browning' element in a convection oven could be misused to vaporize large amounts of fats or oil and 'flash' the result on a recirc pass, proper oven design and control, if not training, would prevent that issue.
Perhaps this could be of some help to improve service.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdEPw9pESxXZQa_qAG4F94fCexIEBIQurEABvILbFzsIv9b8g/viewform?fbclid=IwAR1WQcxzficY5QmkncsAOraPwUe_7HS_JRTSb4fcypcSOThV0i1xcHVImRs
...and this
https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/giving-amtrak-food-for-thought/
I didn't understand the point about hazards and insurance premiums either. As long as the staff are competent, should be no problem.
243129, thanks for posting survey.
This whole issue should probably be divided into two parts.
While I believe that better food service could prompt someone to pay more on a ticket to take a train for a several-hour trip, a long distance trip is another story.
On a LD train, better food service might make the trip more enjoyable, but I don't believe it will make LD trains any more desirable for the majority of travelers.
Excellent points. Doubtful that many folks except a few here will ride an LD train to partake of fine dining, even were it offered. And if it were, they wouldn't pay the cost. And the taxpayers should not subsidize that.
LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc.
243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc.
Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
charlie hebdo 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
You agree with me ???
I'm hearing too much BAH HUMBUG here.
243129 charlie hebdo 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. Great idea. Joe, along with some ski trains in winter. But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak. You agree with me ???
Yep. Why not? I have an open mind and I thought it was a great idea.
charlie hebdoBut this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
Has this ever been tried by a private company in the Amtrak era?
York1 243129 LD trains should be run only in the summer months as tours with all the amenities of the days of yore. There are limitless 'perks' that could be added i.e. free off and on, transportation to tourist attractions along the way etc. charlie hebdo But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak. Has this ever been tried by a private company in the Amtrak era?
charlie hebdo But this shouldn't be done by Amtrak.
Believe it would require changes to the Amtrak authorization legislation!
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