ATSFGuy A LD train will sure be different without the dining car. When the dining car does vanish, where do millenails eat then? The dining car could have been renamed or modernized instead of being removed altogether. This goes back to when Southern Pacific was trying to downgrade passenger service by eliminating the diners and changing the schedules around.
A LD train will sure be different without the dining car.
When the dining car does vanish, where do millenails eat then?
The dining car could have been renamed or modernized instead of being removed altogether.
This goes back to when Southern Pacific was trying to downgrade passenger service by eliminating the diners and changing the schedules around.
Actually, SP was ahead of its time. Back in the mid-sixties, I rode the City of San Francisco from the Bay Area to Chicago.
At least once, I visited the Automat Car.
It was open 24 hours. It had fluorescent lighting. All night. And maybe some formica table tops. And maybe seating (I don't recall). It SEEMED to be painted SP grey on the inside, but that might have just been the "aura". Food in little plastic containers you ate with little plastic utensils. There were paper napkins, if you needed them. And trash bins, to dump your "recycle". No soft padded surfaces. No decoration at all, if I recall properly. There probably was a microwave.
Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Who knew? Southern Pacific thought of the solution 50 years ahead!
Oh, yes. Millenials like to have picnic tables and benches in their restaurants, now. SP missed that one.
Ed
Will a Milleneum speak up and confirm or deny the "milleneums dont like dining cars"...?
I experienced a little of SP's anti-passenger train effort in 68 when I took my family on a Chicago-SF-Seattle-Chicago vacation (CZ, Cascade, Empire Builder) The SP had a baggage car on the Cascade and the State regulators made them provide INTRA-state check baggage but SP would not provide INTER-state baggage service. Train had a baggage car but all of the pullman cars' luggage was stacked up on one side of the vestibule. Otherwise, the service was excellent. SP didn't save any money because they had a baggage man and a car. But they inconvienced the employees and passengers. Nice dining car and good food.
In the fall of 1971, I rode from Oakland to Houston and New Orleans; there was an Aoutomat car all the way, and I ate some meals in such--sitting down in the cars. I really preferred eating in the diners, but I wanted to sample the automats.
Johnny
daveklepper Will a Milleneum speak up and confirm or deny the "milleneums dont like dining cars"...?
I missed being a Milennial by 2 years, however my wife is 5 years younger than me, so she is labeled as one. She hates dining cars. The communal tabel is not something either of us enjoy. Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. She finds the food bland and overpriced, as do I.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting.
Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. And you are a stranger to them. I find if you try, most people are friendly. I have always found that most of the people I have met when seated with them are interesting and nice to talk with. I have had a few that I found that didn't want to talk but they were exceptions. Talk to them about where they are from or where and why they are traveling to. What is it like where they live. And being a railfan and knowledge of most RR's, I know many small towns and find that sparks interest. On one trip returning, to Chicago on the CZ, a nice lady at my table said I wouldn't know the town she was from, POLO, IL. Which I did know of. (A very small town NNW of Dixon IL) And I knew an individual from the town so that started an enjoyable conversation. I find most people are interesting. But then I was born before most people on the train.
I believe that preconceptions can stand in the way of having good relations with others. Our country is being torn apart by the (Them vs Us) climate.
I agree with Electroliner 1935.
Whether it is in a railroad dining car, or a cruise ship dining room, or sitting next to someone on an airplane, start a chat with them.
I usually ask people where they live to get the ball rolling. Works most times. Not always! But most times.
In the 60 years or more that I have travelled by train, plane, etc., I have had a handful of bad outcomes in striking up a conversation with a stranger. But the bad times have been offset by hundreds of pleasant conversations.
One rule! Stay away from politics and religion.
7j43kNow. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Works for me.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Most of us are not Millenials. But I saw and conversed with many everyday as a professor and still see some in clinical practice. Judging from those conversations, I don't think many want a long, involved meal with strangers in a traditional dining car setting. And Amtrak is trying to attract a younger and younger-thinking clientele. I am quite certain Amtrak did marketing focus groups and other research on millenials. Some on here might not like that, but as others have said, Amtrak's mission is not to provide subsidized land cruises for the few who have the time or for rail fans and nostalgia buffs.
zugmann 7j43k Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials. Works for me.
7j43k Now. What in the above description would a millenial not like? No napkins. No silverware. No one you have to talk to. Except for the lack of internet connection (remember, it was 50 years ago!), it would have been PERFECT for the millenials.
Works fine for me also.
In my career, I talked to people all day, every day. I talked to people with whom I didn't want to talk. Then, when I got home, I talked to my wife.
I've retired. I don't want to talk to anyone.
I just got home from a nice vacation. My wife did not go. I hiked national parks in the western U.S. By myself. I didn't even talk to trees, animals, or the wind.
I drove long distances by myself. I spent nights in motels by myself.
It was glorious.
If you do not like me, then make me sit at a table on a train making small talk.
York1 John
Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them.
Every one is a stranger until you get to know them.
Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them.
n012944 Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them.
And yet we do hundreds of routine human undertakings daily without knowing who we are dealing with.
We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time. We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation. We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event. Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
The human condition is a continual series of meetings with unknown people. Why should dinner on a diner be anything less?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Sorry, but the argument that people object to eating with others, especially at a common table, just doesn't wash.
In Acela's first class I might be assigned to a pair of seats facing another pair of seats with a table in between us. If I want to eat, I do so rubbing elbows with my seatmate, whether known to me or not.
On airplanes, if I'm in first class and lucky enough to get a meal, guess what? I'm forced to dine with a stranger next to me and close to me.
So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car with more table and elbow room than either on Acela or United's first class?
Once in a great while, two people sat across the table from my wife and me--and had no interest in talking with us. Even rarer was there someone across the table with whom we did not want to talk. Usually, we had, and I still have, pleasant conversations in diners.
Once, when we were crossing Canada, we had conversations with a couple from Germany. I have also had table conversations with people from Australia, England, and Scotland, as well from Canada. A greeting that is appropriate for the time of the day can lead to interesting conversations.
NKP guy Sorry, but the argument that people object to eating with others, especially at a common table, just doesn't wash.
Someone asked a Millennial's opinion on a railroad's dinner, and I gave my wifes opinion. Thank you for telling me how I choose to do things and my opinion and wife's is incorrect. It hold "wash" just fine. It seems to jive with what people now want, get with the times. Amtrak should not be snapshot of life in the 50's, despite what foamers like yourself desire.
NKP guy So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car than United's first class?
So what on earth is the big deal about being in a dining car than United's first class?
No one excepts conversation in an airplane. Put on your earphones, eat you food and do your thing. Not really hard to understand, unless you don't want to understand it.
BaltACD n012944 Electroliner 1935 n012944 Neither of use want to eat with strangers, it is off putting. Every one is a stranger until you get to know them. Yep, and I don't eat with people until I get to know them. And yet we do hundreds of routine human undertakings daily without knowing who we are dealing with. We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time.
We have no idea who we are on the roads with at any point in time.
Not a social experience
BaltACD We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation.
We have no idea who we will be associating with when we enter a new job situation.
Apples to oranges. I do stuff everyday at work that I would not do in my free time. Amazing what one will do for a paycheck.
BaltACD We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event.
We have little idea of who our seat mates will be when attending a sporting or other form of cultural event.
Again, not a daily experience, or a social one either
BaltACD Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
Going to Waffle House you have no idea who will be sitting at the counter next to you - and eating doesn't get any more basic than Waffle House.
Never have been to one, so I would not know. However if I did I would wait for a table, and eat without a stranger next to me.
BaltACD The human condition is a continual series of meetings with unknown people. Why should dinner on a diner be anything less?
I don't eat with strangers in my daily life, I don't share a table with strangers when I go to a restaurant. Why should dinner in the diner be different from that?
I repeat. Amtrak wants to attract Millenials, as you can't grow with catering to the elderly and railfans. Amtrak did market research. Millenials and others don't want to rub elbows in forced conviviality in a dining car experience. If those of you on here demand a 1950s experience, then pay for it, but don't expect taxpayers to subsidize your nostalgia.
charlie hebdo I repeat. Amtrak wants to attract Millenials, as you can't grow with catering to the elderly and railfans. Amtrak did market research. Millenials and others don't want to rub elbows in forced conviviality in a dining car experience. If those of you on here demand a 1950s experience, then pay for it, but don't expect taxpayers to subsidize your nostalgia.
That is a fact a few on here can't seem to come to terms with.
Do you really trust Amtrak's market research on this?
I trust their market resesrch a lot more than the preferences of folks on here. If this were a sample, it would be very unrepresentative. The few under 50 guys on here who posted agree with Amtrak's research.
I get the impression that millennials have one thing in common with Sheldon Cooper, Ph. D. They prefer social media of all sorts because it allows them to interact without the inconvenience of actual contact with other humans.
I cannot claim and do not clain that my own preferences are those of the majority of Amtrak's passengers now. I do believe that quality food and drink and service is necessary and should be provided in the least subsidized way as possible.
And my station restaurant idea does work just as well with cafe-car take to your sseat approach as it does with the traditional dining car approach.
For the record. Israel Railways had dining cars up to about 50 years ago, only on the Jerusalem - Haifa trains, the only over-two-hour trains at the time. Other trains were servred with rolling carts, having hot and cold drinks and cold sandwiches and snack food. The introduction of double-deck equipment made the rolling car approach impractical. Despite higher speeds, there are now longer journey times for a single train, about 3-1/2 hours Beir Sheva - Naharia, non-stop or one-stop Tel Aviv Haifa. What we have now are quality food providers over-the-counter, quality sufficient to attract local patronage, at nearly every station, with most seating consisting of facing seats with an odd-shaped table giving the window seats full tables and the aisle seats tapered tables There are circular indentations to keep cups from sliding, and a trash bag on a wall hook under the table. A good 85% of the seats are this way, on both double-deck and single-deck, locomotive-hauled and diesel-mu equipment. So one is encouraged to eat, but must buy before boarding. Now, there is not even drinking water available onboard! The Arlozoroff ("Central" only according to the Railway) Station has four tske-out establishmenets, with two providing seats and tables as well. One can get, Shishkebob meat, pizza, salads, yourgurt, tuna sandiches, egg sandwiches, and any soft drink one may wish.
Regarding drinking water, many Israelis and nearly all tourists carry a bottlo of water on all travels. I seem to be an exception.
daveklepper Do you really trust Amtrak's market research on this?
Why wouldn't you? Just because you don't want to believe it?
I also seem to be an exception in not wishing to participate in Social Media Internet, prefering interest-focused (trains, aiudio-acoustics) forums like this for my limited internet time.
I recall a T-shirt on a young Israelil-born student here with the English:
Now you've read this, and that is enough social interaction for the day.
n01, I asked a question and it was answered. I accept the answer, and local experience here does substantiate it. Should have thought about that before asking.
Dave, is the security tight on the trains in Israel? Do you pass through any security checks before boarding?
CSSHEGEWISCH I get the impression that millennials have one thing in common with Sheldon Cooper, Ph. D. They prefer social media of all sorts because it allows them to interact without the inconvenience of actual contact with other humans.
A more rational explanation is that from their POV, they prefer their voluntary social interactions to be with people they actually know, whether in person or online, not contrived interactions.
Sitting at a counter is different. People are next to you. Sitting across from someone is just strange if you don't know them. I think many non-millenials would agree with that.
zugmann Sitting at a counter is different. People are next to you. Sitting across from someone is just strange if you don't know them. I think many non-millenials would agree with that.
Exactly. I don't think there is anything weird about that, just generational preferences. Things come and go. Times change. The British travel group, Thomas Cook, just went out of business after about 160 years.
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