Amtrak's accounting is questionable at best. Food service was never a profit center for the railroads with passenger trains or Amtrak, no more than the availability of a baggage car for carrying property of passengers. It is a service used to attract customers to trains. People used to chose airline flights partly based on food quality, though now they are simply commodity transportation companies with commuter train service quality. I will no longer travel on Amtrak overnight East of the Mississippi River, spending hundreds of dollars for a bedroom, to eat mediocre food. How much money has Amtrak now lost because of my selection of another transportation mode? How many other travelers are making the same travel decision?
Again, Charlie, I have to remind you, that Federal support is contingent on Amtrak being a National System, and that removal of the LDs makes a collection of a few regional systems, where support will only come frolm the specific regions.
But I agree losses should be cut. The station restaurant scheme could make food service profitable or at least cut the losses while increasing quality. And sleeper passengers should pay the incremental costs while coach passengers should expecdt the treatment one had on the El Capitan or the Florida coach streamliners.
Marc 6850: I don't know when you started flying (1955 for me, father started in 1938) but I don't think many people chose the airlines for the dining experience, then or now.
Marc6850 Amtrak's accounting is questionable at best.
Unless you have access to Amtrak's books, you don't know whether its accounting policies, procedures, and practices comply with GAAP and/or cost accounting principles. Neither does the Rail Passenger Association irrespective of its claims to the contrary.
I don't know of an accounting and/or financial professional that would offer an opinion on an entity's accounting policies, procedures, and practices without access to the books. If a Texas CPA did so, h/she would lose h/her license.
JPS1 Marc6850 Amtrak's accounting is questionable at best. Unless you have access to Amtrak's books, you don't know whether its accounting policies, procedures, and practices comply with GAAP and/or cost accounting principles. By the same token, neither do the Rail Passenger Association irrespective of its claims to the contrary. I don't know of an accounting and/or financial professional that would offer an opinion on an entity's accounting policies, procedures, and practices without access to the books. In fact, if a Texas CPA did so, h/she would lose h/her license.
Unless you have access to Amtrak's books, you don't know whether its accounting policies, procedures, and practices comply with GAAP and/or cost accounting principles.
By the same token, neither do the Rail Passenger Association irrespective of its claims to the contrary.
I don't know of an accounting and/or financial professional that would offer an opinion on an entity's accounting policies, procedures, and practices without access to the books. In fact, if a Texas CPA did so, h/she would lose h/her license.
Some folks like the writers for RPA (an advicacy/lobbyist group) and on here like to pretend that they understand accounting practices and somehow can divine knowledge of Amtrak's practices and actual numbers.
Not really relevant to the discussion, but there was a dinner club that regularly road the Century to Albany and returned on the pick-up sleeper just for the dining car food and experience.
Yes, Dave, back when the railroads were willing to provide good serice to the traveling public, even though there was no real measurale profit in doing so, there were people who made the special effort to eat in diners.
I never rode a train just to eat in a diner, but I enjoyed many good meals in railroad diners.
Johnny
Deggestythere were people who made the special effort to eat in diners. I never rode a train just to eat in a diner, but I enjoyed many good meals in railroad diners.
I did!
In 1972 (I think) when Amtrak's Montrealer passed through New Haven, a couple of friends and I boarded there soley to eat in the dining car. We got off at Springfield and hitch-hiked our way home that evening! It was worth the trouble. Two newbies became dining car aficonados that evening.
In 1973, in England, my buddy and I had rail passes and one afternoon and evening took the train to Salisbury and return because it was free for us and we thought British dining cars had better food at cheaper prices than we could find in London. Besides, does anyone remember the state of British food about 1973? I loved watching the waiters walking gingerly on the fast train with huge platters of food as they passed by one's table and served one.
Regarding choosing airlines for their cuisine, in 1970 & 1971 I used to fly American Airlines because they were the only one (serving Cleveland, at any rate) that offered headphones and music. They even sponsored an all-night classical music program which I often enjoyed.
Music isn't food, I know, but people buy tickets and have favorites for all sorts of reasons.
NKP guy Regarding choosing airlines for their cuisine, in 1970 & 1971 I used to fly American Airlines because they were the only one (serving Cleveland, at any rate) that offered headphones and music. They even sponsored an all-night classical music program which I often enjoyed.
Lousy millenials. Always with their earbuds in.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
NKP guy Deggesty there were people who made the special effort to eat in diners. I never rode a train just to eat in a diner, but I enjoyed many good meals in railroad diners. I did! In 1972 (I think) when Amtrak's Montrealer passed through New Haven, a couple of friends and I boarded there soley to eat in the dining car. We got off at Springfield and hitch-hiked our way home that evening! It was worth the trouble. Two newbies became dining car aficonados that evening. In 1973, in England, my buddy and I had rail passes and one afternoon and evening took the train to Salisbury and return because it was free for us and we thought British dining cars had better food at cheaper prices than we could find in London. Besides, does anyone remember the state of British food about 1973? I loved watching the waiters walking gingerly on the fast train with huge platters of food as they passed by one's table and served one. Regarding choosing airlines for their cuisine, in 1970 & 1971 I used to fly American Airlines because they were the only one (serving Cleveland, at any rate) that offered headphones and music. They even sponsored an all-night classical music program which I often enjoyed. Music isn't food, I know, but people buy tickets and have favorites for all sorts of reasons.
Deggesty there were people who made the special effort to eat in diners. I never rode a train just to eat in a diner, but I enjoyed many good meals in railroad diners.
Franklyn McCormick?
I am suspect of how well people remember the quality of a meal that they had 25 years ago. Compared to what?
I have ridden over every mile of the Amtrak system except Sacramento to Portland, Chicago to New Orleans, and Portland, Maine to Boston. Some of the miles were chalked up on premium trains before the coming of Amtrak. I have eaten in the dining cars of the Silver Meteor, West Coast Champion, Broadway Limited, City of Los Angeles, Super Chief, etc. I don't remember any of the meals being worth a return visit.
Perhaps our contributing psychologist can address how well we remember long ago experiences.
JPS1 I am suspect of how well people remember the quality of a meal that they had 25 years ago. Compared to what? I have ridden over every mile of the Amtrak system except Sacramento to Portland, Chicago to New Orleans, and Portland, Maine to Boston. Some of the miles were chalked up on premium trains before the coming of Amtrak. I have eaten in the dining cars of the Silver Meteor, West Coast Champion, Broadway Limited, City of Los Angeles, Super Chief, etc. I don't remember any of the meals being worth a return visit. Perhaps our contributing psychologist can address how well we remember long ago experiences.
In a word, unreliable. Expanding a bit, we tend to remember the past so that it fits with our current emotions.
charlie hebdoIn a word, unreliable. Expanding a bit, we tend to remember the past so that it fits with our current emotions.
What about projecting the future? Does that ever "fit with our current emotions"?
Congruence tends to prevail. To change attitudes usually requires a strong dissonance, either emotional or cognitive, or both.
NKP guy charlie hebdo In a word, unreliable. Expanding a bit, we tend to remember the past so that it fits with our current emotions.
charlie hebdo In a word, unreliable. Expanding a bit, we tend to remember the past so that it fits with our current emotions.
Overmodnowadays it seems almost de rigueur to be dystopian.
I agree. But it's difficult not to be with the very planet practically on fire.
Whatever happened to a future of flying cars? I know, we got 240 characters instead.
NKP guyWhatever happened to a future of flying cars?
Strange: I was talking about this to my son at college yesterday afternoon.
It turns out to be far easier to design autonomous flying cars than it does ground vehicles for general local traffic. It even becomes relatively cheap to implement. The chief problems remain (1) weather; (2) other drivers; (3) landing zones and control. The overarching concern remains the disaster of most systems failures, and the consequence of long gravitational acceleration, even with the best BRS-type systems. We can add terrorism and the equivalents of road rage to this, if those concerns aren't severe enough.
In addition to which: in the absence of fully-interworkable standards for all aspects of operation, the number of cars in any given region can't become 'great enough' to assure reasonable production quantity to get acceptable costing, so either a 'rental'/timesharing model or some kind of fancy financing a la cellphones would have to be in place early and effective.
I am waiting with some interest to see where the Israeli idea of 10-passenger unpiloted autonomous aircraft goes. Better yet is the prospect of Zunum, which gives nearly the convenience of a full 'flying car' for long distances but a known infrastructure and control arrangement.
We've sure gotten a long way from Amtrak meal service!
NKP guy Whatever happened to a future of flying cars? I know, we got 240 characters instead.
And people use those 240 characters to convince others the earth is flat and essential oils can replace vaccines.
NKP guy Overmod nowadays it seems almost de rigueur to be dystopian. I agree. But it's difficult not to be with the very planet practically on fire.
Overmod nowadays it seems almost de rigueur to be dystopian.
Especially difficult with a "denialist" at the helm.
Here we go again.
We start with eating meals on trains, and we end up with the planet on fire and ...... the president.
York1 John
zugmann NKP guy Whatever happened to a future of flying cars? I know, we got 240 characters instead.
Au contraire!! York appears to have invoked the Godwin corollary.
I plan to be one of the chosen in the shelter.
charlie hebdoAu contraire!! York1 appears to have invoked the Godwin corollary.
RATS!!! Should have known it was too good to be true. (Not gonna go back to see where it was, though.)
OvermodShould have known it was too good to be true. (Not gonna go back to see where it was, though.)
Don't waste your time. I didn't refer to "him".
It's only because I associated with someone in the War Room. There may be some jealousy about the 10 women...
York1 I plan to be one of the chosen in the shelter.
Never works out for the ones in the shelter. I've read enough stories to know that.
zugmannNever works out for the ones in the shelter. I've read enough stories to know that.
It was a joke based on an old Kubrick movie.
Dr. Strangelove?
charlie hebdoDr. Strangelove?
Went without saying! The 10 women to every man clinched it, although I'm not sure the "Nazi" implications go quite far enough to qualify as Godwinist -- it is, after all, intended as satire.
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