Backshop Exactly. I'm flying to Amsterdam tomorrow for a cruise (I'll be MIA for 2.5 weeks). We upgraded to Delta Premium Select seats for the extra room. We don't get there any faster, but with it being an overnight flight, the room, recline and comfort makes for better sleeping conditions.
Exactly. I'm flying to Amsterdam tomorrow for a cruise (I'll be MIA for 2.5 weeks). We upgraded to Delta Premium Select seats for the extra room. We don't get there any faster, but with it being an overnight flight, the room, recline and comfort makes for better sleeping conditions.
Two years ago, I made a first class round trip from Washington to Boston and back, It was a comfortable ride--but was not greatly impressed by the meal service (lunch and dinner going north, and breakfast and lunch going south).
Johnny
charlie hebdoThe trainsets hold 25% more people comfortably than the Acelas in the same platform space, even more than Regional equipment.
Explain how the trainsets hold more people than the Regionals.
charlie hebdo it's not about being a little faster.
Then there is no need for HSR.
charlie hebdoIt's about a desired comfort level that millions have been willing to pay for over the past decades.
More Business Class style cars with the same bells and whistles as the trainsets at considerably less cost for those who wish to be pampered.
What part of High Speed Rail (150 MPH+) is not feasible on the existing ROW on the NEC don't you get?
With all due respect, you are missing the point. The trainsets hold 25% more people comfortably than the Acelas in the same platform space, even more than Regional equipment. One more time, it's not about being a little faster. It's about a desired comfort level that millions have been willing to pay for over the past decades. You can choose to ride Regionals or even commuter trains - your choice.
Do you have links to the data sheets that show the new trainsets cost significantly more per passenger seat mile than new loose-car equipment + new engines and then compare that data on a revenue per seat mile basis?
charlie hebdoAs the articles have stated clearly, the new equipment has 25% greater passenger capacity than Acela. That translates to a greater revenue margin.
Again, with respect, he's not discussing costs related to the additional revenue capacity, which is in a sense comparable to the earlier arguments about adding cars to the existing Acela sets ... note where that effort went, on more or less a pure-cost basis ... but the whole cost of the HSR-grade trains vs. their 'equivalent' capacity in 125mph sets.
The argument that the faster trainsets have a greater per diem revenue capacity since they can provide more 'trips' per day at the higher speed (as in the airline industry) is not really relevant here, as both on the existing corridor and in the prospective medium-term future there is little practical speed difference between the alternatives, except perhaps between certain origin-destination pairs that little affect when the trainsets are 'turned' for redispatch.
Backshop The question is--is the increased cost offset by the increased revenue? Neither one of us knows. What we do know is that there are passengers willing to pay for the service. There are plenty of government programs that lose money. The question is whether they help a sizable part of the population. Roads are subsidized, air traffic control is subsidized, etc.
The question is--is the increased cost offset by the increased revenue? Neither one of us knows. What we do know is that there are passengers willing to pay for the service.
There are plenty of government programs that lose money. The question is whether they help a sizable part of the population. Roads are subsidized, air traffic control is subsidized, etc.
As the articles have stated clearly, the new equipment has 25% greater passenger capacity than Acela. That translates to a greater revenue margin. It's not about the faux argument some have repeated. And I have respect for the informed choices of the current, satisfied riders. They aren't the ignorant ones.
243129 There were passengers willing to pay for the SST also.
There were passengers willing to pay for the SST also.
BackshopWhat we do know is that there are passengers willing to pay for the service.
BackshopThere are plenty of government programs that lose money. The question is whether they help a sizable part of the population.
I think a sizable part of the population, were they informed, would opt for paying less money for the same result.
Backshop If the new trainsets cost more but produce more revenue, depending on the ratios (which none of us are privy to) of expenses vs. revenue, then it might not be a waste of taxpayer dollars. IOW--If the new trains cost $1/passenger more than the older ones, but fares are $1.15/passenger more, then it's actually producing enough revenue to cover the costs.
HSR is subsidized by the taxpayers. What is the point of purchasing these ultra expensive glitzy 'all hat no cattle' type trainsets which provide no more expediency than the less expensive regional equipment? HSR on the NEC is a sham on the traveling public.
243129 So you admit that you cannot dispute my take on HSR on the NEC. By your avoidance of the question you also admit that you condone the waste of taxpayer dollars so that you and folks like you can pay more money to ride in a bright shiny 'tube' with all the bells and whistles that accomplishes nothing more than the present service. Your lack of an argument(s) is obvious as you and the desk jockey (payback) choose to sit back and launch insults and snide remarks rather than dispute my opinion on HSR.
So you admit that you cannot dispute my take on HSR on the NEC. By your avoidance of the question you also admit that you condone the waste of taxpayer dollars so that you and folks like you can pay more money to ride in a bright shiny 'tube' with all the bells and whistles that accomplishes nothing more than the present service.
Your lack of an argument(s) is obvious as you and the desk jockey (payback) choose to sit back and launch insults and snide remarks rather than dispute my opinion on HSR.
1. One cannot dispute another's "take" or "opinion". They can only disagree; which several have done.
2. If the new trainsets cost more but produce more revenue, depending on the ratios (which none of us are privy to) of expenses vs. revenue, then it might not be a waste of taxpayer dollars. IOW--If the new trains cost $1/passenger more than the older ones, but fares are $1.15/passenger more, then it's actually producing enough revenue to cover the costs.
charlie hebdo 243129 charlie hebdo Hey Joe, don't get on your high horse commanding people. You have zero influence with authorities and almost nobody on here gives a hoot about your compulsive rants. So, you also cannot dispute what I say. No Joe. Nobody wants to dispute or agree with you because you just keep saying the same stuff over and over. Perhaps Dr. A visits you?
243129 charlie hebdo Hey Joe, don't get on your high horse commanding people. You have zero influence with authorities and almost nobody on here gives a hoot about your compulsive rants. So, you also cannot dispute what I say.
charlie hebdo Hey Joe, don't get on your high horse commanding people. You have zero influence with authorities and almost nobody on here gives a hoot about your compulsive rants.
So, you also cannot dispute what I say.
No Joe. Nobody wants to dispute or agree with you because you just keep saying the same stuff over and over. Perhaps Dr. A visits you?
charlie hebdoPerhaps Dr. A visits you?
Let's hope so. He can get Dr. A to change the name of his brand to "Optavita" ... which fits better ... to free up 'Optavia' for the new 'European' high-speed-that-isn't service. (Hey, I know you think of spinsters when you hear that name, but it's better than 'Acela' or that rrhoid-cream replacement...)
Acela-2s hopefully will have a higher standard of reliability. The additional seats will more seats not now available on -1s. But since the present NEC cannot suport HSR ( over 160 MPH ) but can support HrSR already in some places . But to engage HrSR means getting rid of slow sections.
That means the new Gateway tunnels, 4 tracks from Gateway - Newark Penn, eliminate Elizabeth S curve, Trenton to North PHL including eliminate the slow Frankfort CP/curve, replacing and 4 tracking the 3 movable bridges in Maryland, Baltimore's B&P tunnel into 4 main tracks with no speed restrictions , 4 main tracks or more PHL - Wash. Ease most curves that are less than 160 capable.
Of course also rebuild the CAT to constant tension 160 MPH capable. A start for that will be completing all CAT work from Newark Penn to Trenton and extend it along with Frankford straightening.
Cut station dwell times
With all these improvements a 125 MPH average speed ( using 160 MAS ) could be possible for NYP <> WASH making for a 2 hour trip. More importantly the 91 miles PHL <> NYP could become 40 - 45 minutes.
The regionals being limited to 125 can probably make NYP <> WASH in 2:30 which will spread the differnce between Acela-2s and regionals vs -1s and regionals.
An added benefit of 2:00 hour trips would actually allow more total -2 seats per day by turning -2s faster on another trip.
Unfortunately this will do nothing for improving NYP <> BOS timings due to MAS cannot be improved.
charlie hebdoHey Joe, don't get on your high horse commanding people. You have zero influence with authorities and almost nobody on here gives a hoot about your compulsive rants.
BaltACD 243129 charlie hebdo Saying the same old sfuff over and over doesn't change anything. You just don't get it. Dispute what I say. Why? What didn't work the first time still doesn't work the last time. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
243129 charlie hebdo Saying the same old sfuff over and over doesn't change anything. You just don't get it. Dispute what I say.
charlie hebdo Saying the same old sfuff over and over doesn't change anything. You just don't get it.
Saying the same old sfuff over and over doesn't change anything. You just don't get it.
Dispute what I say.
Why? What didn't work the first time still doesn't work the last time. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
So you cannot dispute what I say..
Hey Joe, don't get on your high horse commanding people. You have zero influence with authorities and almost nobody on here gives a hoot about your compulsive rants.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Pour votre commodité et pour clarification charlie.From post#2:
High speed train travel is not feasible on the Northeast Corridor (NEC). Congress recently approved a 2.45 billion dollar loan package for Amtrak of which a good portion will be spent on twenty eight Generation 2 high speed trains. Why? Generation 1(Acela Express) high speed trains only accomplished a fraction of what they were touted to do. There is no reason to expect Generation 2 to be any different. The reasoning being that you can only travel so fast on the existing roadbed no matter the tilt technology. Generation 1 trains were equipped with the latest tilt system yet could only equal, not exceed, the running time of the 1969 Metroliners between New York and Washington D.C.
The present roadbed with minor deviations dates back to the 1800’s taking a circuitous route to service large population centers and various industries. To attain a true high speed system on the Northeast Corridor there must be a dedicated and exclusive infrastructure built as straight as the geography will allow. The cost and environmental impact of such an undertaking would be astronomical given the real estate values in that portion of the country.
As far back as the 1950’s when the New Haven purchased the Talgo trains and in the 1960’s United Aircraft unveiled it’s state of the art Turbo Liner, they eventually went the way of all of these ‘trains of the future’ since World War II, to the scrap heap. Unitized trains such as the Acela Express (and the aforementioned ‘trains of the future’) have proven not to be practical. Should a car in the consist of the Acela Express become defective the entire train must be removed from service resulting in a massive delay to the travelers. A defective car in an Amfleet style consist may be removed and result in a delay and continuation of the journey.
Amtrak force fed the Acela Express to the traveling public trumpeting it’s airplane style decor, desktop seating replete with USB ports, Wi-Fi, receptacles for recharging sundry electronic devices masking the fact that for the extra cost they did not arrive at their destination much sooner than the Regional Service trains and the time difference was due mainly to the Acela making less stops than the Regional Service trains. Amtrak’s thirty plus year old AEM-7 locomotives with Amfleet coaches and an experienced engineer, were they allowed, could equal Acela Express running time as did the Metroliners of 1969.
The demise of the Supersonic Transport touted as an engineering marvel to revolutionize airplane travel turned out to be a business bust due to high maintenance costs, environmental impact and declining ridership gives credence to the notion that the traveling public is not in that much of a hurry.
The pluses of conventional train travel far outweigh the expense, upheaval and environmental impact that construction of a dedicated roadbed would have on the crowded Northeast Corridor.
The hassle and expense of airline travel coupled with an outdated Interstate system should place the 500 mile and under mode of travel squarely in Amtrak’s lap.
If the bulk of the 2,45 billion dollar loan were used to upgrade the present fleet with all the bells and whistles i.e. USB ports, Wi-Fi, desktop seats etc. the Acela Express would soon be forgotten.
America is not in that much of a hurry. Frequent, dependable, timely train travel trumps enormous outlays of taxpayer dollars for minimal results.
Overmod 243129 Ah I can see the ad now.....'Hemorrhoids? Try Acelia. It's a high speed cure!' I need to give you a crash course in user marketing - you missed the obvious slogan here: HSR stands for High Speed Relief! More fun with the little suppositories that look like bullets lined up in a row... (I won't make the obvious pun!)
243129 Ah I can see the ad now.....'Hemorrhoids? Try Acelia. It's a high speed cure!'
I need to give you a crash course in user marketing - you missed the obvious slogan here: HSR stands for High Speed Relief!
More fun with the little suppositories that look like bullets lined up in a row... (I won't make the obvious pun!)
243129Ah I can see the ad now.....'Hemorrhoids? Try Acelia. It's a high speed cure!'
charlie hebdo If you actually read with comprehension what others wrote about this instead of repeating your opinion over and over you might just understand that John Q Public chooses Acela for reasons beyond speed or timings. They are neither stupid nor suckers, as you believe. But in your tiny world, any opinion that differs from yours must be attacked in a Trumpian fashion.
If you actually read with comprehension what others wrote about this instead of repeating your opinion over and over you might just understand that John Q Public chooses Acela for reasons beyond speed or timings. They are neither stupid nor suckers, as you believe. But in your tiny world, any opinion that differs from yours must be attacked in a Trumpian fashion.
So you advocate spending taxpayer dollars for no gain other than eye appeal and amenities when the same end can be achieved for considerably less taxpayer dollars?
Overmod 243129 Overmod Oh, and a prediction: the best name for the 'second generation' trains and hence the service ought to be 'Acelia' ... Sounds like an ointment does it not? More like a flowering bush, a compact Canadian car, or the 'boutique' upscale marketing version of an elastic bandage.
243129 Overmod Oh, and a prediction: the best name for the 'second generation' trains and hence the service ought to be 'Acelia' ... Sounds like an ointment does it not?
Overmod Oh, and a prediction: the best name for the 'second generation' trains and hence the service ought to be 'Acelia' ...
Sounds like an ointment does it not?
More like a flowering bush, a compact Canadian car, or the 'boutique' upscale marketing version of an elastic bandage.
Ah I can see the ad now.....'Hemorrhoids? Try Acelia. It's a high speed cure!'
Overmod The argument, as far as it goes, is that they aren't getting full value for all the additional they're paying.
But people are riding them. So apparently they(or their employer) think they are getting full value.
I mean, you can use a 1992 Camry for all your driving needs as well.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
(Unlike "Acela" which is the name of a skin condition from drinking too much vinegar.)
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