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Posted by 243129 on Friday, July 12, 2019 8:54 AM

Backshop

Every American who owns a car owns one that is capable of well over any speed at which it will ever be driven.  The most basic car will get you to the destination at the same speed and almost the same comfort as the luxury model but as long as the consumer is willing to pay for the frills, you offer it.

 

"Specious". Look that up in your Funk and Wagnalls.Big Smile

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 12, 2019 7:40 AM

Not sure if Joe is responding to John Privara's point about Pendolinos directly, or to the original issue about the Avelia Liberties, when he talks about 'all that money for little gain', but we can discuss what a Pendolino modified to satisfy American legal requirements might cost, and then take up again what the time savings due to maximum implementation of 'negative cant deficiency' on that particular design could be on the existing NEC.

I'd prefer to leave discussions of reliability on the older 'hydraulic' Pendolinos out of this, as any current design that could be made compliant here would use the 'newer' tilt mechanisms.  It is possible that design for more restricted European conditions might allow some additional degree of tilt over what, for example, Acela was intended to provide ... but likely at the cost of usable interior space and capacity per foot of consist.

The car argument as presented is specious - might as well compare a Chrysler letter 300 to a Gallardo, technologically, in a world with a strict 70mph speed limit and mandatory reckless driving over 80.  Can you use the extra performance you paid the $200,000 or more to get?  

I'll grant you that if we built tollways or whatever with a 220mph limit, there's some perceivable benefit to the Lambo, but consider the cost and other implications.  The situation is exactly the same for the degree of improvement necessary either for the existing NEC or any 'second spine'.  I don't have figures on the specific dollar amount to increase clearances on the NEC to allow for full safe tilt implementation at all points it would be valuable -- but with that information we can easily calculate the time savings from proper tilt and decide if the effort is worthwhile as a 'national priority'.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 11, 2019 11:04 PM

243129
 
JOHN PRIVARA

Not sure "exactly" what the topic is (seems to be HSR, the next generation of Acela, and tilting trains) but (if so) I wonder why amtrak didn't go with this: https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/pendolino-train/

I've ridden these trains a few times in Italy over the last decade and they seem pretty fast on non HSR track (at least the lines I've ridden). As they keep building them, and other countries buy them, I wonder how they compare to the Acela II trains. Both seem to be made by Alstom. This tilting technology has been around for decades now. 

All that money for little gain?

Still driving that Model T?  Although trying to own and operate one in today's world is an extreme luxury from a cost standpoint and torture from a 'on the road' standpoint.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:10 PM

Every American who owns a car owns one that is capable of well over any speed at which it will ever be driven.  The most basic car will get you to the destination at the same speed and almost the same comfort as the luxury model but as long as the consumer is willing to pay for the frills, you offer it.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:20 PM

JOHN PRIVARA

Not sure "exactly" what the topic is (seems to be HSR, the next generation of Acela, and tilting trains) but (if so) I wonder why amtrak didn't go with this: https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/pendolino-train/

 

I've ridden these trains a few times in Italy over the last decade and they seem pretty fast on non HSR track (at least the lines I've ridden). As they keep building them, and other countries buy them, I wonder how they compare to the Acela II trains. Both seem to be made by Alstom. This tilting technology has been around for decades now.

 

All that money for little gain?

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Posted by JOHN PRIVARA on Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:13 PM

Not sure "exactly" what the topic is (seems to be HSR, the next generation of Acela, and tilting trains) but (if so) I wonder why amtrak didn't go with this: https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/pendolino-train/

 

I've ridden these trains a few times in Italy over the last decade and they seem pretty fast on non HSR track (at least the lines I've ridden). As they keep building them, and other countries buy them, I wonder how they compare to the Acela II trains. Both seem to be made by Alstom. This tilting technology has been around for decades now.

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 8:54 PM

Overmod

Joe, what in particular were the problems with the TurboTrains when you ran them?

 

Not sure where to start. TheTurboTrain was all glitz, as are today's ACELAs, and did not best the regular service running times by much and that was due to making less stops also like today's ACELAs. From the outset the TurboTrain was beset with mechanical issues which required United Aircraft personnel to be onboard evey trip. Tilt issues were frequent to the point that the TurboTrain was restricted to regular passenger train speeds. Very seldom did we ever have all engines providing traction power. Third rail operation was hit and miss and most times the gas turbines would be started and the Park Avenue tunnels would be filled with smoke. They, like today's attempts at HSR, were complete failures.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 10:51 AM

Joe, what in particular were the problems with the TurboTrains when you ran them?

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Posted by 243129 on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 10:40 AM

n012944
Yes, I do insert myself, and stand up against keyboard warriors.

No keyboard warrior here. I am reactive.

I state facts from experience which are open to discussion.

You play nice, I play nice.

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 10:04 AM

243129

 

 
n012944

 

 
Backshop

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

 

 

 

 

That seems to be Joe's go to around here.

 

 

 

And here we have another who feels the need to insert himself.

 

 

Yes, I do insert myself, and stand up against keyboard warriors.  

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 9:55 AM

Thanks, Ang.  Please keep watching.

Moderator
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Posted by Angela Pusztai-Pasternak on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 9:24 AM

Please stay on topic. No personal insults. Thank you.

Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:06 PM

charlie hebdo

Face facts.  Few people pay any serious attention to your nasty, repetitive,  ignorant posts. And nobody at Amtrak or the other places you sent your simplistic,  repetitive prescriptions gave anything beyond lip service. Boring. 

 

I can tell that you have ingested any fiber yet. Stop back when you have something on topic to offer.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 9:54 PM

Face facts.  Few people pay any serious attention to your nasty, repetitive,  ignorant posts. And nobody at Amtrak or the other places you sent your simplistic,  repetitive prescriptions gave anything beyond lip service. Boring. 

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 9:10 PM

charlie hebdo
And once again Joe tries to pretend he owns the forum and just like the dictator he has multiple times quoted in admiration, he decides who has the right to comment/participate. Just because your knowledge base doesn't extend to history or current events, don't expect people to not challenge your ignorance.

Asking folks to get back post on topic denotes forum ownership?

Your prepubescent whining/sulking can be minimized by inserting some fiber into your diet.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:33 PM

243129

 

 
n012944

 

 
Backshop

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

 

 

 

 

That seems to be Joe's go to around here.

 

 

 

And here we have another who feels the need to insert himself.

 

And once again Joe tries to pretend he owns the forum and just like the dictator he has multiple times quoted in admiration, he decides who has the right to comment/participate. Just because your knowledge base doesn't extend to history or current events,  don't expect people to not challenge your ignorance.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:24 PM

243129
So how about we get back to the original subject?

I concur.  How quickly will Amtrak get a true sub-three-hour timing reliably with the Avelia Liberty sets?

It had better be quick, even considering the long 20-year broken promise...

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:20 PM

Backshop
I know what a Northrup F5 was, I just didn't know what Grumman had to do with it.

Answer: nothing.  I can only plead that I spent too much time on the Island.  (Carefully leaving stupidity out of it.)  Yes, I know better.

It was developed from the T38 Talon two seat jet trainer.

No it wasn't; both aircraft were developed in parallel from the N-156.

The F20 never sold because General Dynamics had just come out with the F16, a much better plane that was relatively cheap...

The key being why it was 'relatively cheap' (and it was certainly not likely 'cheaper' to operate or maintain).  I still think there is a place for a small lightweight aircraft with the F-5's (or F-20's) characteristics ... objectively.  But I can't exactly plead that military procurement is, or even should be, wholly objective.

 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:06 PM

Backshop
Look at the type of magazine it was, and why it was targeted instead...

... and remember the circumstances that led to the choice of charlie hebdo as a username.  Think of it as overcoming imprudent moderation 'termination' policy and it's easier to understand.

I tried to get 'the user formerly known as wanswheel' to adopt the monicker 'Wade Hoagland' to make a similar point at Kalmbach ... but he simply opted to remain out of the forum until the company saw the error of its ways.

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 11:57 AM

n012944

 

 
Backshop

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

 

 

 

 

That seems to be Joe's go to around here.

 

And here we have another who feels the need to insert himself.

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 11:56 AM

Backshop

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

 

No insult intended just pointing out a fact.

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Posted by n012944 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 11:44 AM

Backshop

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

 

 

That seems to be Joe's go to around here.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:58 AM

The old "when you're losing an argument badly, reply with insults" ploy.  I've seen it before.

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:58 AM

So how about we get back to the original subject?

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:56 AM

charlie hebdo

 

 
243129

 

 
Backshop

So I can't mention the World Trade Center either, since that would remind people of September 11th?  

 

 

Now you are being ridiculous.

 

 

 

No.  You are once again displaying your ignorance. 

 

Awww poor Charlie got his feelings hurt and  responds in Trumpian fashion while Backstreet displays  Pence like adulation.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:06 AM

243129
 

Now you are being ridiculous.

 

No.  I'm doing the same thing that you are.  I'm "blaming" the innocent object of violence instead of the perpetrator of it.  If I'm being ridiculous, then so are you.
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 8:56 AM

243129

 

 
Backshop

So I can't mention the World Trade Center either, since that would remind people of September 11th?  

 

 

Now you are being ridiculous.

 

No.  You are once again displaying your ignorance. 

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 8:47 AM

Backshop

So I can't mention the World Trade Center either, since that would remind people of September 11th?  

Now you are being ridiculous.

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 8:01 AM

So I can't mention the World Trade Center either, since that would remind people of September 11th?  

Look at the type of magazine it was, and why it was targeted instead...

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Posted by 243129 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 7:37 AM

Backshop

 

 
243129

So says the guy who names himself after a mass murder.Confused

 

 

 

HUH?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

 

What does one think of when "charlie hebdo"  is mentioned? Not the magazine, the mass murder. Huh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

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