tdmidgetWhat are you smoking?
Mr. MG -- you've been whooooshed with almost devastating effect.
Did you actually look at the clip describing the 165mph bus service? None of the stuff John Privara added was any more serious.
OvermodAs I've mentioned in other contexts, I find the provision of rational 'ad hoc' transit to the elderly, handicapped, and other 'differently-abled' who cannot drive to be one of the great shining uses for autonomous-vehicle technology, even for trips of considerable length. Better accomodations for, say, six to ten passengers in something the size of a van Hool shell with modern hybrid drive is a much better use of funding than jiggering a whole nationwide set of unprofitable trains to defectively approximate the same premise...
Perhaps you could supply a cost comparison of special buses vs. train. The closest example I see is dial-a-ride small buses, which require big subsidies. I looked at the van Hool website and noted that their hybrid buses cost $400,000 more than a regular bus. Also I don't believe we will ever see a driverless bus. Are these buses going to stop and unload everyone every few hours for meals/hotels, or will they have a bus host to serve food? Perhaps these people will have family members/attendants along, so you are going to need a bigger bus.
JOHN PRIVARA Re: A double-deck vehicle with Pickwickian amenities that is run up to 165mph on Personally, I’d rather have those “vista-dome” Greyhounds back. Trick it out with some bedrooms on top, and bathrooms and a lounge on the bottom… WOW! Plus, drive on the old US highways; like Rt 66. None of this modern Interstate stuff, we’ll go head to head with Amtrak for 1950’s nostalgia! I think a 1-B-$ subsidy would create a nice basic network. Go AmHound, and leave the driving to us... (Of course, we’d have to a connecting bus at Newton KS for Oklahoma City passengers from Chicago and KC, there’s real potential there).
What are you smoking? Route 66? How is that going to happen? There can't be more than 250 miles of it left and that is all city streets. For example in Arizona there are about b8 nmiles in Holbrook, 1 in Joseph city, 1 in Winslow, 71 between Seligman and Kingman. I am told that there is 165 miles that are claimed to be rt 66 but not all are original. Driving on I 40 is not driving on Rt 66, even when they are the same piece of real estate.
I don't get the fascination with Rt 66. It was a crappy roundabout way of connecting 2 s--thole cities, Chicago and Los Angeles. US 80, the Ocean to Ocean highway was much more direct, connected many more people and cities, running from Coronado Island Ca to Tybee Island GA.
daveklepper I think the comparison is amply justified. Along with National Parks and Public Libraries. You and most of my critics are younger than I am and still drive and probably own automobiles, with the freedom a personal car provides. As a youngster, I had a partial scholorship for a private school, and my classmates and friends were from wealthier families that could afford cars, even in New York. At MIT, the situation was the same, with many students owning cars. So when I started earning my own money, and then the Army, a car was a real ticket to freedom, despite my interest in public transportation and railroads and passenger trains. I am now 87, drove my own auto ages 21 - 38; rented cars when appropriate, 38 - 64. I have not owned a car or driven at all regularly (exceptions, move a car a short distance for a friend) since. So, I have some idea of the loss of mobility the handicapped and elderly encounter. If you accuse me of being bazzar; I can acuse you of being cruel. The elderly and handicapped that woulc be serverely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.
I think the comparison is amply justified. Along with National Parks and Public Libraries. You and most of my critics are younger than I am and still drive and probably own automobiles, with the freedom a personal car provides.
As a youngster, I had a partial scholorship for a private school, and my classmates and friends were from wealthier families that could afford cars, even in New York. At MIT, the situation was the same, with many students owning cars. So when I started earning my own money, and then the Army, a car was a real ticket to freedom, despite my interest in public transportation and railroads and passenger trains.
I am now 87, drove my own auto ages 21 - 38; rented cars when appropriate, 38 - 64. I have not owned a car or driven at all regularly (exceptions, move a car a short distance for a friend) since. So, I have some idea of the loss of mobility the handicapped and elderly encounter.
If you accuse me of being bazzar; I can acuse you of being cruel. The elderly and handicapped that woulc be serverely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.
I think you need to read Overmod's post or consult a dictionary as to cruelty. Most elderly and challenged folks I encounter either personally or professionally prefer flying for any traveling much over 400 miles in length. Sitting on an often uncomfortable plane for 3-5 hours beats sitting on a train for 24-40 hours.
daveklepperThe elderly and handicapped that would be severely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.
It's only 'cruelty' if knowingly and intentionally so imposed. Which I doubt even the most unflattering assessments of Anderson et al. could actually substantiate.
It might also be said that a large number of the potential 'elderly' users of Amtrak service are becoming more and more incapable of the critical on-the-spot thinking needed to figure out when to schedule for a three-day-a-week schedule of uncertain timing reliability. Is it worth spending the additional millions to provide effective daily service with more time reliability, or reasonable boarding times from any given station each day, or 'clean up' conditions in many of the areas where Amtrak has its LD passenger stations, to accommodate the 'elderly and handicapped' appropriately?
The point about Amtrak vs. theatre and concert hall owners is valid in context. Most of the requirements of the ADA as amended might as well be considered unfunded mandates as far as concerns 'owners and operators' of facilities. No one subsidizes venues for, say, making their restrooms accessible and ADA compliant for the latest round of 'do-gooder' required-or-else changes. So of necessity they must assign an appropriate part of the cost of compliance to 'their users' in some manner -- and presumably have enough of those users, contributing at least enough marginal revenue, to make the cost of the changes available above and beyond all the other costs of running the venue.
Amtrak only incidentally gets 'government money' for ADA and other compliance. As a 'quasi-public' company intended to operate as a business, and since 2015 explicitly tasked with transitioning to some definition of 'profitability' (however rigged that turns out to be in practice) the incremental cost of catering to what is likely a small contingent of 'differently-abled' with systemwide expensive modifications or operating procedures (the progress of the arguments over how to implement wheelchair access being a particularly applicable example, I think) may not be justifiable in terms of the mobility access that would be theoretically gained by those expenses.
One pejorative (and perhaps exaggerated) piece of propaganda from early Amtrak years (I think it might actually have been published in Trains) noted that it would have been possible for at least one train to buy everyone a Volkswagen and gas enough to run it for a year with the money saved by not running it. I would have to note that any 'paratransit'-like service for the cohort of elderly and handicapped prospective Amtrak passengers on any given day, whether or not they would consider a service like Angels Flight an alternative, would very likely be vastly cheaper as well as far better and more effective for all concerned. Such an approach would also be far less 'cruel' than forcing these people to suffer on mandatory-high-level Amtrak equipment with crappy bathrooms and possibly unmotivated employees ... or forcing employees to deal with some of the implications of special service requirement for the elderly and handicapped including whatever the Government du jour considers 'reasonable accommodation' at every stop in the middle of the night. As I've mentioned in other contexts, I find the provision of rational 'ad hoc' transit to the elderly, handicapped, and other 'differently-abled' who cannot drive to be one of the great shining uses for autonomous-vehicle technology, even for trips of considerable length. Better accomodations for, say, six to ten passengers in something the size of a van Hool shell with modern hybrid drive is a much better use of funding than jiggering a whole nationwide set of unprofitable trains to defectively approximate the same premise...
1. Comparing concert halls with passenger rail service is bizarre, to say the least.
2. Providing the median and standard deviation would tell us most of what is useful in any set of descriptive data
daveklepper If approximately 450 miles is the average coach passenger's travel it does mean a substantial number are above that. The same goes for the 950 for sleeper passengers.
If approximately 450 miles is the average coach passenger's travel it does mean a substantial number are above that. The same goes for the 950 for sleeper passengers.
Re: I don't think you will find a less expensive way of giving true continental mobility to the Elderly and Handicapped than the present LS system because other riders need it and use it.
I wonder how many years LD train supporters expect this train preservation effort to go on? As the existing obsolete LD equipment fails, are we going to spend billions on new (obsolete) 1950’s equipment? Do we expect trains with 1950’s amenities and 1920’s schedules with 1840’s frequencies to run into the 22nd century? Just for nostalgia?
Meanwhile, Amtrak is wasting its time with an obsolete form of transportation which creates a stigma amongst the rest of the population against all passenger trains, including modern short-distance trains that would be useful to the majority of the population.
Perhaps the disabled, and (primarily) rich old people, can get together with the bus foamers and steam-ship foamers and subsidize the preservation of long-distance buses and trans-Atlantic ocean liners. Surely we can’t have enough obsolete transportation.
(Time to daylight the LD trains, and get out of the 1950's).
[quote user="charlie hebdo"]
daveklepper daveklepper wrote the following post 7 hours ago: I believe your (plural) conclusions are faulty. The passengers who do not ride end-point - to - end-point still include a substantial number who ride almost end-point to end-point. People who ride the Chief Jolliette to Barstow, the Zephyr from Galesburg to Reno, the Empire Builder from Milwaukee to Spokane. The most important reason in my own opinion for Long Distance trains in the USA and Canada is to make continental mobility possible for the elderly and handicapped
1. Do you have any data to support this notion of almost-endpoint to almost- endpoint ridership being anything more than a drop in a small bucket?
2. If the LD trains' justification should be for the physically challenged, then get the subsidy for that from ADA appropriations.
[/quote (above)]
The theater and concert-hall owners are compensated for hard-of-hearing and mobility-limited features by the general revenue, not ADA appropriations.
If approximately 450 miles is the average coach passenger's travel it does mean a substantial number are above that. The same goes for the 950 for sleeper passengers. I don't know where hard data for a graph for the two types of passengers for numbers versus distance, possibly in blocks of 50 or 100 miles, could be found. Possibly things have changed in the 23 years since I last rode Amtrak long distance (last trips round-trip roomette, NY - W. Palm Beach), but most other travelers I met on trips on the Southwest Chief, CZ, Lake Shore, Capitol Limited, Cresent, Cardinal, and the Florida trains fit that catagory of long-distance, but not both end-points. Ditto nearly all my own trips, usually to and from New York or Chicago, with my own other end-point short of that of the train. The only frequent end-point-to-end-point trip was NY-Chicago to connect with the Chief or CZ. On the CZ, a stop-over for a few days in Denver in one direction was common, visiting a sister and niece, and Salt Lake City or neaby Provo was a frequent western destination. On the Florida trains, several NY - W. Palm Beach trips, also just Jacksonville, and points in the Carolinas and Georgia.
I did talk with other passengers.
I don't think you will find a less expensive way of giving true continental mobility to the Elderly and Handicapped than the present LS system because other riders need it and use it. Ideas expressed on alternative schemes seem highly expensive and not very customer friendly, essentially putting such citizens in long-distance ambulances.
I do believe my ideas on converting decent food service from a money drain to a profitable business through a station restaurant chain with substantial take-out and delivery business, with the on-board-train meals a faction of that busines would both cut losses and improve the passenger's experience. Possibly the matter of interior cleaning and restocking supplies also needs a new look.
BaltACD Another company (FlixBus) popped up around the same time with very similar routes and fares .... hmmm .... Would that be collusion or obstruction?
Apparently neither. FlixBus is based in Europe and possibly came across this business opportunity. I have not yet tried them out.
York1I have a friend in Phoenix. I just checked. First week in July, I can fly from Grand Island, NE, (a little closer to me than Omaha) to Mesa, AZ, on Allegiant Airlines for $64, about two hours. Greyhound, 26 hours, $143.
Ouch - that Greyhound trip sounds like a violation of the Geneva Conventions. Thank you for making me appreciate my 'short distance' transportation options.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
While certainly cheap airfares (if booked ahead) cut into the bus and train usage, I think the biggest factor is the ever increasing use of private automobiles. Used to be that most families only had one car, and often only the husband knew how to drive. Today it is not uncommon for the kids to be given their own car as a high school graduation present, and a three car garage still leaves a car or two parked outside!
Up here in western Canada Greyhound ceased operation last October, leaving no alternatives. So when a friend had car troubles 300 miles away, I drove out to bring him home. Last year he could have simply used the Dog. (A repeat drive is lined up for next week to recover his vehicle.) Airports are not always conveniently available when you need transportation!
Sorry NDG, didn't have time to hunt you up on Wednesday; picked up gas one way, never stopped coming back.
John
MikeF90 York1 ... One can fly much faster and in most cases, cheaper, than taking a train or bus. Please provide an example - in recent years I've never found cheaper airfare than bus fare. Despite California population growth the central valley towns still suffer from flightus interruptus. I was a good customer of BoltBus (Greyhound subsidiary) but they mysteriously pulled out of Cali at the end of 2018. Very strange because they seemed to have the demographic dialed in - students, recent grads or other lower net income folks with computer savvy (you could only buy tickets online). Another company (FlixBus) popped up around the same time with very similar routes and fares .... hmmm ....
York1 ... One can fly much faster and in most cases, cheaper, than taking a train or bus.
Please provide an example - in recent years I've never found cheaper airfare than bus fare. Despite California population growth the central valley towns still suffer from flightus interruptus.
I was a good customer of BoltBus (Greyhound subsidiary) but they mysteriously pulled out of Cali at the end of 2018. Very strange because they seemed to have the demographic dialed in - students, recent grads or other lower net income folks with computer savvy (you could only buy tickets online). Another company (FlixBus) popped up around the same time with very similar routes and fares .... hmmm ....
I just checked...
First week in July, I am headed for Dallas from Omaha. I will drive, but if I didn't want to drive, I can take a United flight, a little over 7 hours, with one stop, for $137. On Greyhound, it is 17 hours for $143.
I have a friend in Phoenix. I just checked. First week in July, I can fly from Grand Island, NE, (a little closer to me than Omaha) to Mesa, AZ, on Allegiant Airlines for $64, about two hours. Greyhound, 26 hours, $143.
York1 John
MikeF90I was a good customer of BoltBus (Greyhound subsidiary) but they mysteriously pulled out of Cali at the end of 2018. Very strange because they seemed to have the demographic dialed in - students, recent grads or other lower net income folks with computer savvy (you could only buy tickets online). Another company (FlixBus) popped up around the same time with very similar routes and fares .... hmmm ....
Would that be collusion or obstruction?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
York1... One can fly much faster and in most cases, cheaper, than taking a train or bus.
Two more changes from the old days. You now buy a ticket for a particular trip--and there are no more ighway flag stops on Greyhound--I benefited from such a stop one night when it seemed that no one was going to stop and pick a hitchhiker up; as it was, the driver that night was one whom I had known for many years.
The last time I rode with that driver, I was going from my home town to Charlotte, When I saw who the driver was, I reached inside, took the crank for the baggage compartments and put my suitcase inside, and took the suitcase out in Charlotte.
Johnny
Victrola1Who killed the long distance passenger bus?
While other posters have pointed out various issues, I think the main reason is the same as is true for trains: One can fly much faster and in most cases, cheaper, than taking a train or bus.
And as also pointed out, even smaller cities have connecting flights, directly competing with bus service.
ah, yes, the good old days when there were several Greyhound lines and several Trailways lines. At one time or another, I rode on three different Greyhound lines--Atlantic, Teche, and Southeastern. And, I rode on two different Trailways lines whose names I remember--Carolina Scenic Stages and Queen City (Charlotte, N.C.) Trailways--and another one whose name I do not recall--Continental?
The Greyhound system eventually merged the various operating companies into one corporate entity. Trailways had some mergers of operating companies but tended to remain an association of independent operators sharing the Trailways name for marketing purposes. There were also a fair number of independent regional operations of various sizes throughout the country.
Greyhound shrank in part due to corporate machinations but both national systems and some of the regionals shrank due to de-reg in the 1980's.
Yes, Johnny, those were some big time operators before Corporate machinations took them out of the LD Bus business.
Greyhound fielded their Scenicruisers and Super Senicruisers, while Continental Trailways had their high-powered 8V-71 and double 8V-71 Detroit Diesels versions of their Silver Eagle, and their Golden Eagles. That Golden Eagle was the Express version, and was hinged to the rear; with 'Stewardesses' who served the passengers drinks and sandwiches. They were pretty plush rides in their day. The bus bodies were made in Germany and shipped to the USA for their drivetrains. The route thru Memphis went West and East. The Silver Eagles were used on most other route than the Express Routes. They, both models were designed to get out there, and 'burn a hole in the wind'. We heard stories of automobiles that had tried to stay with the Golden Eagles and wound up blowing their gas motors up(?) Some of those buses lasted into the era of the Double Nickle. And they, like the Scenicruisers got shaggier, and shaggier as they ran out their miles. In their primes they were some pretty snertzy rides.
Here is a linked photo of one of the articulated bus version @http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Eagle_Bus
samfp1943 JPS1 wrote the following post[in part]: Backshop "Since JPS1 said that the average coach passenger rode only 497 miles on an LD train, I doubt it. " JPS1 "...isn’t smart enough to come up with the number by himself. It can be found on Page 66 of the Amtrak Service Line Plans | FY 2018 - 2023. It is for 2017; it probably has changed little if at all..." Further, from JPS1: "...If Greyhound went away, there are several regional bus systems that could fill the void. One line that comes to mind is Peter Pan, which is based in Springfield, Massachusetts. It provides an excellent service throughout New England. Or new lines probably would popup..." Convenience and Price: [ Long time ago in another part of my life] I worked for several years, in Memphis,Tn; sleping bags. and bus freight to earn money to go to school. In the 1580's/60s, there were two major bus operators, Greyhound and Continental Trailways. In Memphis the two terminals were across the street from each other. Sort of a Hatfield and McCoy relationship; were traded some freight, back and forth, and passengers when one line did not meet their needs. Eventually, they both seemed to dry up and go away...Corporate decisions being what they were; Greyhound back then was a division of Dial [Soap?]Corp. C/T was a victim of its own(?). The Regionals seemed to pick up[Cherry pick(?)] and take on the better paying routes. going long distances became problematic, and a nightmare of putting a routing together. Particularly, out in the areas of 'fly-over America. Out here in Kansas, the urge to see other parts of the country; are the perview of a couple of Long Distance'TOUR' Operators, and some that could be called 'wildcatters'(?). The latter seem operate between large hispanic populations and up and down I-35. They seem to operate regularly and probably have scheduled published within their ridership community (?) There may even be some new Greyhound franchises; Saw what apeared to be a fairly new coach Southbound today on I-35, that was all black, but had the famous 'running hound' on its sides. Who knows? Local hope for some, in So. Central Kansas, is that AMTRAK will extend its Dal-FtW to OKC service North thru Wichita to Newton to connect with the SW Chief there(?) Or maybe, all the way to KC (?) Long shots, BUT the local politicians seem to blow hot and cold on that Idea? It seems to be anyone's guess.
Backshop "Since JPS1 said that the average coach passenger rode only 497 miles on an LD train, I doubt it. "
JPS1 "...isn’t smart enough to come up with the number by himself. It can be found on Page 66 of the Amtrak Service Line Plans | FY 2018 - 2023. It is for 2017; it probably has changed little if at all..."
Further, from JPS1: "...If Greyhound went away, there are several regional bus systems that could fill the void. One line that comes to mind is Peter Pan, which is based in Springfield, Massachusetts. It provides an excellent service throughout New England. Or new lines probably would popup..."
Convenience and Price: [ Long time ago in another part of my life] I worked for several years, in Memphis,Tn; sleping bags. and bus freight to earn money to go to school. In the 1580's/60s, there were two major bus operators, Greyhound and Continental Trailways. In Memphis the two terminals were across the street from each other. Sort of a Hatfield and McCoy relationship; were traded some freight, back and forth, and passengers when one line did not meet their needs.
Eventually, they both seemed to dry up and go away...Corporate decisions being what they were; Greyhound back then was a division of Dial [Soap?]Corp. C/T was a victim of its own(?). The Regionals seemed to pick up[Cherry pick(?)] and take on the better paying routes. going long distances became problematic, and a nightmare of putting a routing together. Particularly, out in the areas of 'fly-over America.
Out here in Kansas, the urge to see other parts of the country; are the perview of a couple of Long Distance'TOUR' Operators, and some that could be called 'wildcatters'(?). The latter seem operate between large hispanic populations and up and down I-35. They seem to operate regularly and probably have scheduled published within their ridership community (?)
There may even be some new Greyhound franchises; Saw what apeared to be a fairly new coach Southbound today on I-35, that was all black, but had the famous 'running hound' on its sides. Who knows?
Local hope for some, in So. Central Kansas, is that AMTRAK will extend its Dal-FtW to OKC service North thru Wichita to Newton to connect with the SW Chief there(?) Or maybe, all the way to KC (?) Long shots, BUT the local politicians seem to blow hot and cold on that Idea? It seems to be anyone's guess.
Incidentally, Greyhound used to check two bags per adult ticket at no cost if you bought the highest price ticket; recently I received an e-mail note from Greyhound, telling me the Good News that I may now check three bags--if I pay about (as I recall) $10.00 each for the second and third bags.
I wish I had kept the last copy of Russell's Bus Guide that I had; there is no longer any such thing available.
Convenience and Price: [ Long time ago in another part of my life] I worked for several years, in Memphis,Tn; sleping bags. and bus freight to earn money to go to school. In the 1950's/60s, there were two major bus operators, Greyhound and Continental Trailways. In Memphis, the two terminals were across the street from each other. Sort of a Hatfield and McCoy relationship; were traded some freight, back and forth, and passengers when one line did not meet their needs.
Eventually, they both seemed to dry up and go away...Corporate decisions being what they were; Greyhound, back then, was a division of Dial [Soap?]Corp. C/T was a victim of its own(?). The Regionals seemed to pick up[Cherry pick(?)] and take on the better paying routes. going long distances became problematic, and a nightmare of putting a routing together. Particularly, out in the areas of 'fly-over America.
Backshop Since JPS1 said that the average coach passenger rode only 497 miles on an LD train, I doubt it.
JPS1 isn’t smart enough to come up with the number by himself. It can be found on Page 66 of the Amtrak Service Line Plans | FY 2018 - 2023. It is for 2017; it probably has changed little if at all since 2017.
According to the same source, the average trip length in 2017 for a sleeper class passenger was 991 miles, which suggests that most of the long-distance sleeping car passengers are on the train for just one night.
Most Americans traveling across the country or over significant distances fly. Some of them, if traveling with the family on vacation, may choose to drive.
Whether Greyhound is a national system is debatable. I would argue that it is really a linked set of regional operations, with very few passengers traveling beyond one region and even fewer riding across the country.
If Greyhound went away, there are several regional bus systems that could fill the void. One line that comes to mind is Peter Pan, which is based in Springfield, Massachusetts. It provides an excellent service throughout New England. Or new lines probably would popup.
The whole premise of the article is wrong.
"what would happen if Greyhound buses suddenly disappeared from American roads, and Amtrak became the only provider of passenger transportation with a nationwide reach?"
All of the Big 4 airlines provide nationwide service and serve more communties than Amtrak LD trains. For example, Amtrak in Michigan doesn't serve any communties north of Lansing/Grand Rapids. The airlines serve 9 airports with a catchment of the entire northern part of the state that are north of there.
Since JPS1 said that the average coach passenger rode only 497 miles on an LD train, I doubt it.
daveklepperdaveklepper wrote the following post 7 hours ago: I believe your (plural) conclusions are faulty. The passengers who do not ride end-point - to - end-point still include a substantial number who ride almost end-point to end-point. People who ride the Chief Jolliette to Barstow, the Zephyr from Galesburg to Reno, the Empire Builder from Milwaukee to Spokane. The most important reason in my own opinion for Long Distance trains in the USA and Canada is to make continental mobility possible for the elderly and handicapped
Re: But the elderly and handicapped is the most important.
If it's a transportation subsidy for the elderly and handicapped there are FAR better ways than 1950's trains running on 1920's schedules.
The long distance trains are ruining any chance of having useful trains for the rest of the population. It's time to eliminate them; break the routes into daylight segments (that everybody could use) and try to move Amtrak out of the 1950's and (at least) into the 1980's. It's a waste of money perpetuating the 1950's.
Do this instead (it's a PDF):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T2HT7l79BiHvZtaOTXpew8_5-rz-Q0tH/view
daveklepper I believe your (plural) conclusions are faulty. The passengers who do not ride end-point - to - end-point still include a substantial number who ride almost end-point to end-point. People who ride the Chief Jolliette to Barstow, the Zephyr from Galesburg to Reno, the Empire Builder from Milwaukee to Spokane. The most important reason in my own opinion for Long Distance trains in the USA and Canada is to make continental mobility possible for the elderly and handicapped who cannot either fly or endure long bus or auto trips. The transportation equivalent of the handicapped access ramps and hard-of-hearing listening systems in theaters and concert halls. They need both through service and comfort. And decent food. There are other reasons for LDS, tourism, emergencies, and, for the Empire Builder and Canadian, winter mobility for certain communities. But the elderly and handicapped is the most important. An example of a bus having mostly corridor passengers is not a good analogy. Another purpose and mainly different clientele.
I believe your (plural) conclusions are faulty. The passengers who do not ride end-point - to - end-point still include a substantial number who ride almost end-point to end-point. People who ride the Chief Jolliette to Barstow, the Zephyr from Galesburg to Reno, the Empire Builder from Milwaukee to Spokane. The most important reason in my own opinion for Long Distance trains in the USA and Canada is to make continental mobility possible for the elderly and handicapped who cannot either fly or endure long bus or auto trips. The transportation equivalent of the handicapped access ramps and hard-of-hearing listening systems in theaters and concert halls. They need both through service and comfort. And decent food. There are other reasons for LDS, tourism, emergencies, and, for the Empire Builder and Canadian, winter mobility for certain communities. But the elderly and handicapped is the most important.
An example of a bus having mostly corridor passengers is not a good analogy. Another purpose and mainly different clientele.
Dave is right -- but what I think is needed is a different paradigm for the bus service that would 'replace' what Amtrak thinks it's doing with the through LD train "transportation service".
The immediate thing would be to get the Megabus/Stagecoach people up to speed with the attractive "Velocibus" technology promoted by "Obama" a few years ago. A double-deck vehicle with Pickwickian amenities that is run up to 165mph on 'dedicated' parts of the road system looks like it offers much the same sensibility as current LD service.
And then there is the Interstate Traveller approach -- see details as mentioned in this post.. With the rise of the 'autonomous' bubble, this begins to represent as useful a target for billions of Keynesian-style stimulus 'and all that implies' as anything restricted to someone else's railroads.
An example of a bus having mostly corridor passengers is not a good analogy. Another purpose and mainly different clientel.
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