Dog Gone Greyhound

[daveklepper]

David Gunn or Reistrup could be doing it if alive and active today.  But you have to believe in the product to sell it.   Including selling it to law makers.  Including selling it to Trump, even.

There are also parallels with our situation here in the Mideast, if anyone wishes to contact me at [e-mail].  And, yes, railroads are a critical part of the solution.

[charlie hebdo]

Call me a cynic,  but in the current climate,  Amtrak is beyond repair.  Fundamentals need to be changed,  such as funding on a longer basis,  personnel,  and dedicated ROWs,  thanks name three. 

[daveklepper]

Ditto other aspects of their operations:  What does it cost to attatch a private car to a train at a terminal?  Then how much more at an intermediate station where  probably a freight railroad will be involved?  Or at an intermediate point on the NEC?   Then don't refuse the business, just publish what the appropraite price is to more than break even. 

[daveklepper]

100 percent correct.  I agree with you  completely, and that is exactly the point I wished to make with my story.

One step necessary for any business to be successful is to use its opportunities and facilties constructively.  I am certain my station resdtaurant scheme can turn a money sinkhole into a profit center.

In my letter to Anderson, I do point out that even a dark railroad, one dispatched only by train orders, is still safer than any public highway.  (Without specifically meantioning the idea of a "bus bridge.")

I hope that starts him thinking about just what he had been doing.

Positivity has to start at the top.

And again, today's bsby boomers will be tomorrow's senior citizens and there will be a lot more of them.

[Overmod]

daveklepper

Possibly, but where is the happy ending?

List the changes that would be necessary at Amtrak to bring it about (comparable to the example in the story).  We've already discussed several severe difficulties.  I'm tempted to note that better vetting, training, and supervision are prerequisites in a number of vital senses, even for commodity-level "hospitality"...

Once the problems with the culture are fixed, we can start addressing how the deck chairs are best arranged, and so forth.

[daveklepper]

Possibly, but where is the happy ending?

[charlie hebdo]

I understood what you were attempting in your long post but it is a poor analogy.  If you were looking for a parallel in the hospitality business, Howard Johnson's would have been more pertinent. 

[daveklepper]

I think most readers understood the parallel beween broken-down, poor-service trains and broken-down poorly-maintained apartments.  Sorry if you do not.

Hope to learn others' response.

[charlie hebdo]

What does your post have to do with busses or trains or current times? 

[daveklepper]

The old man was pathetically glad for their
> company and didn't want to let them go but they had a schedule to adhere to
> if they were going to find a place that day.
>
>          It became a discouraging search. They checked off apartment after
> apartment, each seemingly more broken down than the last. When they thought
> they might have to call that farmer after all, they arrived at the Braun's
> house. It was on Main Street and had a nice, middle class look about it.
> Mrs. Braun was a tall, thin elderly lady with a pince nez and a forbidding
> expression. She interviewed them in her parlor. When she learned that Len
> was a PhD candidate at Cornell she nodded, signifying that they qualified
> for being given a look at the quarters that she and her late husband had
> fixed up above their own. She led them up the stairs (which were newly
> carpeted) and took out a key which opened the door to a freshly painted
> living room, clean and equipped with nicely upholstered furniture, unlike
> the sprung, broken backed monstrosities they had been shown elsewhere. The
> kitchen was small but modern, the bedroom large and airy.
>
>          The place was perfect but how much would it cost? They couldn't
> afford much on the $4500/yr that Len's assistantship and GI bill benefits
> would give them. He tried to act like a man of the world used to bargaining
> but he ended up asking resignedly what the rent would be. Surprisingly it
> was the same sum that the owners of the ramshackle apartments had demanded.
> This was a real find! Len tried to hide his excitement when he said that
> they'd take it. Mrs. Braun was no more subtle than they were. She took out a
> rental contract, looked at it through her pince nez, and pointed out where
> they should sign. She was willing to allow them to store whatever they
> wished for the month until they came to occupy it and she almost forgot to
> get them to leave a deposit as a tender of their seriousness.
>
> When they left the house Rose let out a chirp of joy. Len gave her a firm
> kiss and hug.  This wasn't a dream. They really were going to live together
> as husband and wife. They had an address. Now they ought to go out to
> celebrate!
>
>

[daveklepper]

On this hospitality business, here is a story from the pen of my fellow MIT and ROTC classmate (he served in Europe during Korea) and fellow American Israeli, Larry Lewin:

 LEN AND ROSE FIND AN APARTMENT
>
>          In the Spring of 1958 Len and Rose took a day off and drove from
> Ithaca , the scene of their courtship, to Geneva , where the NY State
> Agricultural Experiment Station stands. Len had started his PhD research
> there with Dr Gunderson. It should take another year to finish. The couple
> (it was hard for him to really believe that they would soon be a couple)
> would have to find a place to rent for that time. They had circled ads in
> the Geneva Times for what might be suitable accommodations. Their first stop
> was at a farmhouse just out of town.
>
>  The farmer was waiting as they drove up. The house was white clapboard,
> just like conventional farmhouses on Xmas cards. A pitchfork leaned against
> the wall at a crazy angle. A pile of manure stood, cone-shaped, in the
> middle of the lawn.
>
>          "Hi," the farmer said, "I hope that you had a pleasant drive from
> Ithacky."
>
>          He spit a wad of tobacco juice on the lawn. (At least I hope that
> it was tobacco juice. If it was saliva then he was a very sick
> man.)
>
>          "Come with me. " he said, "I'll show you the place. The rooms was
> let to an airforce couple until they moved down to Texas somewheres."
>
>          They were shepherded into a narrow corridor and up a stairway. The
> outside windows were grimy and the stairs uncarpeted.
>
>          "Here it is!" he said, as he opened a door. They looked into a
> large, sunny room with a rag rug spread on the floor between a sofa, an
> overstuffed chair and a floor lamp. He entered and looked back at the young
> couple.
>
>          "Through here's the bedroom."
>
>          There was another door that led to another sunny room sparely
> furnished with a double bed, an old chest of drawers, with an empty closet
> open to show us how capacious it was.
>
>          "And the kitchen?" Rose asked.
>
>          "It's off the living room. I'll show you."
>
>          The kitchen wasn't the large kind you associate with a farmhouse.
> It was a little kitchenette, an afterthought the farmer had added when he
> had decided to rent out the apartment. Rose didn't look pleased.
>
>          "And the bathroom?" Len asked, feeling that he should show a
> masculine interest in the facilities.
>
>          "That's out in the hall." the farmer said, shamefacedly, "You'll
> have to share that with the hired man. He has a room off the hall there."
>
>          Rose and Len looked at each other, then at the farmer.
>
>          "Thanks for showing us the place." Len said, "We'll call you for
> further details after we've looked around a little more -- if we're
> interested."
>
>          When they had gotten into the car Rose asked, "Did you smell that
> manure?"
>
>          Len nodded.
>
>          "And did you see the cow patty on the driveway?" he asked. "How
> would you like to come home on a dark night and step into that?"
>
>          "Well, it was a kind of a city girl's dream, living on a farm."
> Rose said softly, and then she laughed and then, "Imagine sharing a shower
> with the hired man!"
>
>          The next apartment on the list was on the periphery of the town,
> near the Experiment Station. When they rang the bell the owner, a retired
> Experiment Station worker, was glad for their company. He was a garrulous
> old fellow and he gave them the inside info on the rental situation, much to
> his own disadvantage. Until the Air Force base had closed down it was hard
> to find a place to live anywhere nearby. People had rented out any storeroom
> they could put an old bed in. Now the situation had changed for the worse
> (from the landlord's point of view). Rents had dropped drastically and there
> were lots of places on the market. The old fellow was nice but his apartment
> wasn't. It was dark and gloomy and Len'spracticed biologist's eye detected

> rat droppings in the kitchen. The old man was pathetically glad for their

> company and didn't want to let them go but they had a schedule to adhere to
> if they were going to find a place that day.
>
>          It became a discouraging search. They checked off apartment after
> apartment, each seemingly more broken down than the last. When they thought
> they might have to call that farmer after all, they arrived at the Braun's
> house. It was on Main Street and had a nice, middle class look about it.
> Mrs. Braun was a tall, thin elderly lady with a pince nez and a forbidding
> expression. She interviewed them in her parlor. When she learned that Len
> was a PhD candidate at Cornell she nodded, signifying that they qualified
> for being given a look at the quarters that she and her late husband had
> fixed up above their own. She led them up the stairs (which were newly
> carpeted) and took out a key which opened the door to a freshly painted
> living room, clean and equipped with nicely upholstered furniture, unlike
> the sprung, broken backed monstrosities they had been shown elsewhere. The
> kitchen was small but modern, the bedroom large and airy.
>
>          The place was perfect but how much would it cost? They couldn't
> afford much on the $4500/yr that Len's assistantship and GI bill benefits
> would give them. He tried to act like a man of the world used to bargaining
> but he ended up asking resignedly what the rent would be. Surprisingly it
> was the same sum that the owners of the ramshackle apartments had demanded.
> This was a real find! Len tried to hide his excitement when he said that
> they'd take it. Mrs. Braun was no more subtle than they were. She took out a
> rental contract, looked at it through her pince nez, and pointed out where
> they should sign. She was willing to allow them to store whatever they
> wished for the month until they came to occupy it and she almost forgot to
> get them to leave a deposit as a tender of their seriousness.
>
> When they left the house Rose let out a chirp of joy. Len gave her a firm
> kiss and hug.  This wasn't a dream. They really were going to live together
> as husband and wife. They had an address. Now they ought to go out to
> celebrate!

[daveklepper]

I'm still wondering how she was allowed to board without a companion, where was the wheelchair (checked baggage or in the coach), and just what did happen?

I don't think it is wise for me to recommend discontinuance of any long distance train, but I can point out that the Texas Eagle does not perform as well as the Southwest Chief, neither does the Sunset Limited, and then leave it at that.  Further commenets in the next fiew hours appreciated.

Even a transit authority is in the hospitality business.  Even a commuter railrioad.  One should not feel like he or she is riding a prisoners' train.  And most of us have had that unfortunate experience at least once in our train riding.

[Overmod]

daveklepper

I will write Richard Anderson. We do not know the full story.

I was struck by the line about Amtrak crews not rendering personal assistance to passengers.  And by the invocation of 'policy' as an excuse to dump Alice and her luggage on the platform of a strange city and take off ... leaving the Albuquerque police, highly miffed if the story is accurate, holding the bag, as it were.

Perhaps the best part is that, after dropping her in a strange city without further assistance, Amtrak is only returning PART of her fare -- doubtless basing this on having performed 'transportation service' to get her that far.

I suspect Anderson's hands are somewhat tied here ... there's an Amtrak attendant's side of this story, too, and I can't see him throwing them under the bus to score sympathy points when he has to deal with them long-term, in ways that I expect will highly involve unanticipated attrition.

What is needed instead may be Congressional legislation that mandates changes in some of the Amtrak procedures, specifically involving forced 'detraining' as an option for passengers crews don't like.

[JPS1]

daveklepper

Anyone wish to suggest additions? 

 

Tell Anderson to recommend discontinuance of the Texas Eagle.  It has been steadily losing riders during an otherwise robust economy.  Tell him to support better passenger rail service along the I-35 corridor between DFW and San Antonio.

 

The number of Eagle riders in FY18 was down 2.95 percent compared to FY17.  It was down 1.26 percent from FY13.  If the rate of decline for FY19 continues the pattern shown for the first eight months of the year, the numbers for FY19 will have declined 6.32 percent from FY18; 9.19 percent from FY17, and 7.51 percent from FY13.  During a robust economy, when one would expect the number of riders to be growing, the Eagle’s riders have been falling off. 

 

Multiple reasons probably have been responsible for the decline of Eagle ridership.  At the top of the list is surely its tardiness.  In FY18 it was on time at its end points just 46.4 percent.  Even worse, it was on time at its intermediate stations just 33.5 percent.  Today, June 30^th, the Eagle is marked-up 4 hours, 13 minutes late for Dallas  This is not atypical; it is typical.

 

There probably is a market for better passenger rail in Texas between DFW and San Antonio.  It is one of the most congested corridors in Texas.  If Amtrak were not shackled by overseers hobbled by an out-of-date perspective, it could partner with Texas to improve service along the I-35 – DFW to San Antonio – corridor.

 

The coaches and lounge cars devoted to the Eagle could be repositioned to Fort Worth or San Antonio.  I believe there would be enough equipment to run three trains a day between DFW and San Antonio.  Moreover, because of the shorter distance, the heavy padding of the current schedule could be reduced and the running time shortened significantly. 

 

The I-35 corridor is ideally suited for better passenger train service.  Its intermediate cities – Waco, Temple, Austin, San Marcos - are too close for commercial air service; they are a bit too far for many people to drive.  Instead of meeting this need, Amtrak is forced to run a long-distance train that is used by a very small percentage of the population, and because of its tardiness it is steadily losing passengers. 

 

Ideally, the state along with Amtrak or Virgin Trains USA could upgrade the UP line between DFW and San Antonio to allow up to 125 mph running, which would make the trains competitive with driving and/or buses.  Running along the UP line would provide direct service to Waco.  

[charlie hebdo]

I suggest you get hold of the foundational legislation for Amtrak.  The mission is transportation for people,  not "hospitality" for a small segment of our population who want to take a one off land cruise. Most seniors I know, including moi, do not consider using Amtrak except for under five hour journeys. 

[daveklepper]

 I will write Richard Anderson.  We do not know the full story.  If the  -year-old normally uses a wheel chair, I believe Amtrak's policy is that she would only travel with a comopanion.  If the wheelchair was checked baggage and she lied about its use, Amtrak might have a case.  Or perhaps she was abusive when she did not get help precisely when whe wanned it.  Were there any  passengers who volunteered to help her?

I've been intending to write Richard Anderson for some time, and this incident galvanizes me into action.  The letter should:

Open on a positive note, pointing out the new markets, particularly Colonial Williamsburg, that can be tapped by the new NEC sleeper service.

Amtrak in the hospitality business, not just transportation

Main purpose of long-distance trains, and that present youngsters will become oldsters, and there will be more of them.

Other purposes of long distance trains.

PTC for track just used by the Chief each way a terrible waste of money and why.  (For safety, better spend the money on more grade-crossing upgrades or elimination)

Grab any still usable AEM-7 available and preserve it as Sunnyside's switcher.  Far less expensive than trying to quietly ventilate an underground yard with diesel switchers.

Railroading is a geographically specific industry, not like airlines.

Anyone wish to suggest additions?

[n012944]

daveklepper

 

The elderly and handicapped that woulc be serverely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.

 

 

It doesn't sound like Amtrak wants them on board, but the airlines will take them!

 

https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/82-year-old-booted-from-amtrak-train-gets-a-helping-hand-from-apd-officers/

 

"The officers said Amtrak staff told them the 82-year-old was “unfit for travel,” and that she was continuously asking for help getting up from her seat to use the restroom."

"The officers reached out to Hopeworks, a non-profit in Albuquerque, which helped collect enough money to buy her a flight the same day."

[daveklepper]

Elderly and handicapped access to the continent may be the most important reason for continued operation, but it is not the only reason.  At the time of the WTC-Pentagon horror, Amtrak did provide travel arrangements for important individuals for defense and security when, because of all commercial air being grounded, the alternatives would have been costly separate  miliary transport for each individaul.  A tourist is by far best served by LDTs where one can meet the natives as well as see the country.  The Empire Builder is of course a special case with its serving some communities that would otherwise be isolated for much of winter.

But the elderly and handicapped is the most important.

[Overmod]

CSSHEGEWISCH

That is basically Uber's aim.  Their goal is a ride service with self-driving cars and the hope that it happens before the money runs out from paying drivers.

Let's hope not, for their sake.

We realized back in the late '70s, in connection with what was then called PRT, that even if the liability issues associated with unpiloted vehicles (which were then under full "computer control" on dedicated guideways, not 'autonomous' in the current sense) could be solved or 'addressed away', the problems of crime associated with unattended vehicles likely couldn't be.  These start with vandalism (or theft of expensive components) and proceed upward through various 'offenses against the person' that become easy when there's no driver involved to mediate or 'rat out' the folks involved all the way up to the full analogue of carjacking.

If you have any doubts where this ends up, look at rental electric bicycles in places like London.

(Be fun to see if the insurance companies learned their lesson about providing feel-good flight insurance when the time comes for autonomous regional aircraft to start operating ... if you take my meaning.)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

That is basically Uber's aim.  Their goal is a ride service with self-driving cars and the hope that it happens before the money runs out from paying drivers.

[charlie hebdo]

MidlandMike

 

 

charlie hebdo

Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled. 

 

 

Yes, my small town does that also, along with dial-a-ride for the general public.  The subsidies on its losses are always an issue.

As far as Uber, it is labor intensive, and their labor is becoming restless.

 

Uber seems an obvious candidate for automation. 

[MidlandMike]

charlie hebdo

Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled. 

Yes, my small town does that also, along with dial-a-ride for the general public.  The subsidies on its losses are always an issue.

As far as Uber, it is labor intensive, and their labor is becoming restless.

[charlie hebdo]

MidlandMike

 

 

Overmod

... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ...

 

 

Uber has never shown a profit, and last year lost $1.8 billion.  Maybe their bigger concern is survivability.  Where is any data that says it would be less expensive than the incremental cost to Amtrak?  Plus you would lose the alternative transportation option for all those other people who choose to travel by train.

 

Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled. 

Yes,  Uber cut it's loss to under two billion dollars , but the important part is continued growth of  revenue to over $11 billion.  This is the same pattern seen in many successful monster companies in  the last twenty five years.

[ROBIN LUETHE]

Uber has majorly raised prices over the last two years.  Friends have gone from commuting via Uber to back to their SUV. (large to boot!)

[MidlandMike]

Overmod

... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ...

Uber has never shown a profit, and last year lost $1.8 billion.  Maybe their bigger concern is survivability.  Where is any data that says it would be less expensive than the incremental cost to Amtrak?  Plus you would lose the alternative transportation option for all those other people who choose to travel by train.

[charlie hebdo]

Very true.  Since there are limits on funding, the Utilitarian meme "the greatest amount of good for the greatest number" seems to  apply fully as a guiding principle.  

[Overmod]

daveklepper

When today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.

The advantages of LDTs for the elderly, in principle, are not in question.

The question is whether the elderly are a sufficient reason to retain Amtrak's version of LD 'service', at its likely future cost.  It would be a lovely thing to have full chauffeured service as 'paratransit' for the elderly and disabled ... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ... as Amtrak since 2015 has been mandated to achieve not later than 2022?  I doubt we'll have a Bellamy-style mass attitude change toward senior travel accommodation, especially as the current 'young' generations become the key decision-makers.

[Backshop]

daveklepper

 

3.   When today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.

 

Nope, I'll continue to fly.  I'll just get an aisle seat closer to the restrooms.

[daveklepper]

1.   Church not in Parish or Winter Garden.  Still searching.

2.   Not in the pix, holding the camera taking the photos.

3.   When today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.