This may be kind of silly, but since I last rode #19 in April and
it arrived in New Orleans over 2 hours late, plus with all the posts
about the Crescent being stabbed, I have been off and on keeping
track of it's timing. This past week once 16 minutes late, once 13
minutes late, and tonight - YIKES - 2 minutes EARLY!!!!
Has something happened between Atlanta and NO to give 19 better
timing, or will this not last?
The state of Georgia released its FRA required 2015 rail plan.It is somewhat dated but -------------
For those who want to know a detailed description of the Howell CP go to the following link. You will have to page down many pages to appendix "D" Looking at the diagrams the many possibilities of delay to the Crescent will become apparent.
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/Documents/StateRailPlan/StateRailPlan-Appendices-2015.pdf#search=appendix%20d%20rail%20plan%2A
Crescent hits tressapsser west of ATL. Lost 2 hours at Bremen. However mde it thru Howell CP with no delay.
http://www.cbs46.com/story/39011681/pedestrian-hit-killed-by-amtrak-train-west-of-atlanta
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/man-killed-by-amtrak-train-while-walking-on-tracks-police-say/826123436
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/officials-man-killed-by-amtrak-train-while-walking-on-tracks/85-590337934
Well #20 has alread lost 2:00+ hours by Anniston and looks like it will loose more time to ATL. However 20/5 and 20/6 will depart ATL on time as it is cancelled between NOL and ATL. 19 was terminated in ATL this morning. 19/4 & 19/5 will also be cancelled at ATL. What is going to be interesting is that 2 Complete Crescent train sets will be laying over after 19 arrives at ATL tomorrow morning. Now where will the 2nd train's set will be parked ?
Even without #20 not operating today out of NOL #19 only 5 minutes late out of ATL and 5+ hours late out of Laurel, Ms
#20/04 lost almost 2 hours at Howell CP last night. CSX up to its old tricks. Unfortunately NS gets charged for the delay.
After some brain storming we begin to think that our posts may be misleading. Not only is CSX delaying Amtrak they are also delaying NS freights.
1. Freights from Chattanooga and BHM that go onto the Piedmont sub ( towards Greenville and CLT have to cross Howell's CSX line.
2. Freights to / from Piedmont sub that go to Macon - Jacksonville also have to cross CSX at Howell .
3. Often the Crescent will get delayed by NS freghts in front trying to transit Howell that are delayed by CSX. Looking at last night's delay that appears to be what happened as Crescent stalled by Inman yard waiting for NS freight to clear by CSX freight and then Crescent proceeded further to be delayed at Howell by another CSX freight .
Due to the complexity of Howell the solution appears to have CSX to duck under all the NS tracks that wye directly across CSX. The long freights of both CSX and NS make the situation worse. In distant past although there were many more transits across Howell the trains and yard transfers were much shorter .
I know what we should do to stop the delays of passenger trains on the NS at Howell: go back in history before the Western and Atlantic was built, and build a railroad from Atlanta to Gainseville, on the same alignment as is now used by NS.
Or, change the convention so that the second road at a crossing has precedence,
Your solution is the only viable one: persuade CSX to go under the NS tracks; would NS pay for such a project (I doubt it)?
As I recall, from 1958 (the first year I rode the Southerner through Atlanta) on, the only delays in Atlanta were caused by pulling the southbound Southerner out of the station and pulling the northbound train into the station--or turning the coach seats after it was decided about 1968 to eliminate the switch engine moves on this train.
Johnny
blue streak 1After some brain storming we begin to think that our posts may be misleading. Not only is CSX delaying Amtrak they are also delaying NS freights. 1. Freights from Chattanooga and BHM that go onto the Piedmont sub ( towards Greenville and CLT have to cross Howell's CSX line. 2. Freights to / from Piedmont sub that go to Macon - Jacksonville also have to cross CSX at Howell . 3. Often the Crescent will get delayed by NS freghts in front trying to transit Howell that are delayed by CSX. Looking at last night's delay that appears to be what happened as Crescent stalled by Inman yard waiting for NS freight to clear by CSX freight and then Crescent proceeded further to be delayed at Howell by another CSX freight . Due to the complexity of Howell the solution appears to have CSX to duck under all the NS tracks that wye directly across CSX. The long freights of both CSX and NS make the situation worse. In distant past although there were many more transits across Howell the trains and yard transfers were much shorter .
Financing the reinvention of the wheel can get expensive.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project.
Electroliner 1935 Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project.
blue streak 1 Electroliner 1935 Maybe Atlanta needs its own equivalent of Chicago's CREATE project. That is exactly what will be needed. There cannot ever be a reliable commuter rail service from the north of Atlanta until Howell is mitigated. There are 7 different potential commuter rail routes from the north that all converge going thru Howell, That certainly seems to be cause for a need for flyovers and possibly more tracks thru, over, and under Howell CP. That would be more complicated than even Zoo !
All the carriers that entered Atlanta viewed the city as their Terminal when they were creating themselves. When you are a end point you don't engineer rights of way for through movement, and none of the carriers did, when the land was available to do it. Atlanta and the South itself grew and the carriers become land locked with just interchange routes between each carriers terminal yards.
While the NS nowadays gets screwed by CSX, the layout of CSX tracks in Atlanta causes CSX to screw itself frequently as well. NS also screws CSX when train use the NS trackage to Eastpoint.
BaltACD All the carriers that entered Atlanta viewed the city as their Terminal when they were creating themselves. When you are a end point you don't engineer rights of way for through movement, and none of the carriers did, when the land was available to do it. Atlanta and the South itself grew and the carriers become land locked with just interchange routes between each carriers terminal yards. While the NS nowadays gets screwed by CSX, the layout of CSX tracks in Atlanta causes CSX to screw itself frequently as well. NS also screws CSX when train use the NS trackage to Eastpoint.
Among all the lines that entered Atlanta, only one was constructed to run through Atlanta--the East Tennessee Virginia and Georgia's line that connected its line into Rome with the Macon and Brunswick--in 1882.
The Georgia RR was the first into Atlanta, about 1834, and the W&A began in 1836. Thus, the W&A (now operated by CSX) was the first line through Howell. The Georgia Western, which became the east end of the Georgia Pacific (Atlanta to Greenville, Miississippi), was chartered in 1854, and apparently was the first road to cross the W&A.
The Atlanta and Richmond Airline, which eventually became part of the Southern, began in Atlanta by 1871.
The Georgia, Carolina, & Northern (which became a part of SAL) reached Inman Park (on the GaR) in 1892.
Other roads have less, if any, conflict with the W&A and Howell.
I understand that when the GaRR was planned, the planners wanted to stop in Decatur--but the city fathers said "No you don't stop here"--so the west end was set about six miles further on, and was called, at first, "Terminus."
October appeared to be getting better but there has been a decline this month . For Friday 19 got to NOL 5:30+ hours late and 20 scheduled now to arrive ATL 0330 or later. 7 + hours late. Note 20 did leave NOL 3 + hours late. Emphasis on later !
Estimated CLT 0800 or later . Will miss connection to Carolinian train 80.
blue streak 1For those who want to know a detailed description of the Howell CP go to the following link. You will have to page down many pages to appendix "D" Looking at the diagrams the many possibilities of delay to the Crescent will become apparent. http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/Documents/StateRailPlan/StateRailPlan-Appendices-2015.pdf#search=appendix%20d%20rail%20plan%2A
These are D3 and D4, pages 116 and 117 (of 195) in the PDF if you want to go directly to them.
20/15 delayed ! 5:50 into ATL last night further delays.
UPDATE: Crescent Train 20(15) is currently operating about 6 hr 11 min late due to additional Freight Train interference along the route. Please check http://Amtrak.com or our mobile app for status updates.
Maybe NS knows something about Amtrak not citing NS for extreme delays ? ?
Crescent 20/22 out of NOL already 4:30+ late at Birmingham. No more alerts today as alerts shut down for holiday
Crescent Train 20 that departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/22 is currently operating about 2hr 26min late due to earlier mechanical issues, speed restrictions and freight train interference between NOL and Meridian (MEI).
follow up # 20/22 was 5:45 late at ATL additional loss till GAS then made up :30 to GRO and now lost more according to Amtrak. Only @:09 lost on the attached delay notice between TCL and BHM.
UPDATE: Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/22 is currently operating about 6 hr 11 min late due to an earlier crossing incident south of Birmingham (BHM) and additional Freight Train interference along the route.
Does it appear that Amtrak ( Anderson ) does not care and is not complaining about these delays ? Crescent is only train other than a #2 Sunset that is extremely late. These lates are getting worse !
Persons that in past to use Crescent to get to WASH at an early day time cannot anymore depend on it other than being 2 - 4 hours late.
blue streak 1 Verified account ago More Does it appear that Amtrak ( Anderson ) does not care and is not complaining about these delays ? Crescent is only train other than a #2 Sunset that is extremely late. These lates are getting worse !
Based on a randomly selected five dates in October and early November, the Texas Eagle, No. 21 averaged 1 hour, 55 minutes late into San Antonio, which means that it is getting into the Almo City near midnight.
No 21 that departed Chicago on November 19th and was due in San Antonio at 9:55 pm on November 20th did not arrive in the Alamo City until 9:19 am, November 21st.
Imagine you are planning to meet a family member that is supposed to arrive in San Antonio at 9:55 pm, only to find out that she will not arrive until 9:19 the following morning. She will not be happy. And neither will you! Never again is likely to be your mutual refrain!
I don't know whether Anderson cares. But it may not make any difference. The freight carriers that host Amtrak's long distance trains hold all the cards. And as long as they do, they will prioritize their money making trains over Amtrak's money losing long-distance trains.
As reported in other threads, Amtrak does not pay the fully allocated cost of hosting its passenger trains. So why should the freight carriers go out of their way to see that Amtrak's trains are kept to their schedule?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
NS has been trying to run the Crescent on PTC for the past several weeks. I know at least one day, it make a huge mess of the Piedmont Div. The cell networks couldn't keep up with the data updates to be uploaded to the Amtrak train en route. Apparently, one train without good route data stops everything.
Don't know if this is ongoing problem or not.
Usually, route data for a trip is uploaded over WiFi at origin terminal. With Amtrak, apparently they upload just enough to get rolling and are supposed to do the rest while en route.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Don thanks for the explanation ! One thought. Is the updating happening on just a crew change or with a same crew ? Just another reason that Amtrak does not seem to care about LD trains ?
blue streak 1 Don thanks for the explanation ! One thought. Is the updating happening on just a crew change or with a same crew ? Just another reason that Amtrak does not seem to care about LD trains ?
While the train is moving along the ROW via the cell network (AT&T and Verizon)
oltmanndWhile the train is moving along the ROW via the cell network (AT&T and Verizon)
I thought part of the problem was that all the updating 'transactions' had to confirm before the system would let the train move safely.
oltmanndNS has been trying to run the Crescent on PTC for the past several weeks. I know at least one day, it make a huge mess of the Piedmont Div. The cell networks couldn't keep up with the data updates to be uploaded to the Amtrak train en route. Apparently, one train without good route data stops everything. Don't know if this is ongoing problem or not. Usually, route data for a trip is uploaded over WiFi at origin terminal. With Amtrak, apparently they upload just enough to get rolling and are supposed to do the rest while en route.
Is 'short routing' PTC a NS operating strategy or Amtraks response to some other NS PTC operating strategy?
When I retired in my area of responsibility, CSX had only made PTC operational on dark territories and PTC managed the limits of the authorities as well as Main Track Switch positions. Operations had not been started on signalled territory.
If multiple radio communications are required between the 'back room' and the train for every switch and signal on a route - and there are multiple trains operating on a line at the same time - there COULD be quite at bit of 'radio overload' on the assigned radio channels.
#20 6+ hours late in VA.
And now crew ran out of HOS so crew had to van down to LYH
Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/23 is currently operating about 6 hours late due to freight train interference north of Tuscaloosa (TCL). Please check http://Amtrak.com for updates.
Crescent Train 20 which departed New Orleans (NOL) on 11/23 is currently stopped in Lynchburg (LYH) for unforeseen crew changes. More information to come
As of 10:00 PM 2200 Crescents operating today are all in the red or black as not on time 20 aarrived NYP 5+ hours late. Only other late LD is #1. Even Empire all trains in green with #8 arriving today early into CHI.
It is again NS snafu !!!
Just to keep things in turmoil. Not all NS delays are on 29 and 49, Crescent 1:37 late at ATL. ======= now.
Update: Crescent Train 19 that departed New York (NYP) on 12/13 is currently operating about 6hr 17min late due to freight train congestion, signal issues, speed restrictions and mechanical issues along the route south of Washington (WAS).
Now even if no more delays # 20 tomorrow will leave NOL late due to crew turn HOS ! Note # 19 leftCLT just 19 minutes late.
Crescent #19 lost 3 hours today ATL - Anniston then hit a car just south of BHM . Now 9 hours late with best NOL 8 hours late of 0330 AM.
http://www.wbrc.com/2018/12/16/killed-birmingham-train-accident/
Well # 19 lost another hour at Howell CP. This may be another CSX problem note this 3 alerts from Amtrak .Since the Star operates mostly on CSX pprobably their problem.
Crescent Train 19 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 1 hr 44 min late due to Norfolk Southern Freight Train interference and host Railroad software issues along the route.
Silver Star Train 92 which departed Miami (MIA) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 56 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route.
Silver Star Train 91 which departed New York (NYP) on 12/19 is currently operating about 2 hr 36 min late due to Railroad congestion and host Railroad software issues along the route.
EDIT Note Stars did not take delays on their NS portions.
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