schlimm AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
That is correct, but C&NW was the first to use HEP and run them as push-pulls.
Seems to be the case, pretty much. The equipment will follow Siemens designs used in Germany and elsewhere, but be constructed in their factory here. AFAIK, the CB&Q had the first gallery cars in Chicagoland, not the C&NW.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's I certainly would be interested any financial analysis between the two operational models over the operational life cycle of the equipment.
D.Carleton Overmod D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW. I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec. I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment? Each new locomotive will have 1000 kW of HEP available.
Overmod D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW. I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec. I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment?
D.CarletonIt is interesting the HEP spec for the AAF locomotives is 1000 kW. For years the NRPC spec has been 800 kW.
I assume that the HEP spec for each of the physical locomotives, then, is 500kW (as there will be two locomotives per train) and this would seem adequate for the 4-car planned consists. I expect also that at least some of a 'reduced' power spec involves much more efficient lighting, HVAC, and so forth for the new trains than what Amtrak had available when they adopted a higher spec.
I'm sure we've had threads somewhere on what the average and peak HEP-supplied power requirements for various types of car are. Does anyone have the patience to cite them here? Or provide the current (no pun intended) figures for modern Amtrak equipment?
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
blue streak 1 D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's." Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable.
D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's."
To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's."
Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable.
blue streak 1 D.Carleton As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first. That is great news for Siemens. They now can get a notice to proceed from AAF, ramp up supply sources, and not have to wait on the Midwest coalition.. At same time that is bad news for EMD as their hostage challenge may not delay start of production for the Midwest unless EMD can force a re-bid ? . As well the Midwest locos will probably be available earlier to the coalition if their production is finally approved. We have seen how long the ACS-64s took to ramp up to their production rate.
D.Carleton As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first.
As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first.
D.Carleton To the best of my knowledge no units are currently "under construction" for the Midwest due to legal challenges from EMD and the individual states still dotting their "T's" and crossing their "I's." Worded question poorly. Will AAF be identical to Amtrak's ? That would enable one test sequence to be all needed, Also would make them fully interchangeable. As already mentioned nothing is being built yet for the Midwest. Look for AAF's locomotives to be built first. That is great news for Siemens. They now can get a notice to proceed from AAF, ramp up supply sources, and not have to wait on the Midwest coalition.. At same time that is bad news for EMD as their hostage challenge may not delay start of production for the Midwest unless EMD can force a re-bid ? . As well the Midwest locos will probably be available earlier to the coalition if their production is finally approved. We have seen how long the ACS-64s took to ramp up to their production rate.
blue streak 1 Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ?
Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ?
blue streak 1 Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ?
Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ?
blue streak 1 Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ?
Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ?
blue streak 1Now a rendering of the locomotives has been released. ( see link below ). Will they be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ?
Here is a PDF link to a datasheet for the Siemens Charger locomotives. (This is from the Siemens page referenced by the original AAF press release.)
http://allaboardflorida.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1417aa7abba8abaf60c80fdc9&id=b0fcf85cb9&e=1dc01ac7a3
Now a rendering of the locomotives has been released. ( see link below ). Will locos be exactly like the Midwest sprinters now under construction ? Maybe a different paint job ? Would that make them fully Amtrak compliant ? Do the Midwest sprinters have a contract date for delivery ? Will Siemens be able to fit this order into their production schedule ? If enough alike one set of testing protocols at Pueblo could spread cost of testing ?
Wonder how close the coaches will be to the Viewliner-2s now being built. Maybe Siemens will purchase the drawings from Amtrak ? Why invent the wheel again ?
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/03/27/usa-high-speed-rail-gets-boost-32-train-order-siemens-trains/
Well it's now official: single level cars and locomitives provided by Siemens. http://allaboardflorida.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=1417aa7abba8abaf60c80fdc9&id=b0fcf85cb9&e=1dc01ac7a3
oltmannd Midwest cars not on order yet? Thought they were. http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp121106.htm
Midwest cars not on order yet? Thought they were.
http://www.nipponsharyousa.com/tp121106.htm
Paul Milenkovic Seriously, can we discuss the pros and cons of different trains without a categorical dismissal and use of four-letter words? We are all enthusiasts here. We live and breathe the technical details of trains. If a person feels the Talgo is no good, even without experience riding it, could a person at least explain in their own words the foundation of that opinion rather than us just having to take your word for it? Or do angry words make the point and there is nothing more to discuss?
Seriously, can we discuss the pros and cons of different trains without a categorical dismissal and use of four-letter words?
We are all enthusiasts here. We live and breathe the technical details of trains. If a person feels the Talgo is no good, even without experience riding it, could a person at least explain in their own words the foundation of that opinion rather than us just having to take your word for it?
Or do angry words make the point and there is nothing more to discuss?
I'll second that. What specifically is it about the Talgo trains you (CMStPnP) find so objectionable? And for that matter, what is with the stereotypical insults of the good folks in the PNW? Perhaps they are not exactly your cup of tea, but some folks might just say the same about Texas folks.
Paul Milenkovic oltmannd CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available. Cool! Where can we get that open air ride on a Trailer Train flat car?
oltmannd CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
CMStPnP I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
Cool! Where can we get that open air ride on a Trailer Train flat car?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
CMStPnPSome folks just have higher standards. Some are satisfied with a Yugo, Fiat 500, Hyundai,
Do try to keep up with the times... http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Hyundai_Equus/
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I rode in Talgo round trip Seattle to Vancouver BC a couple years ago. Great ride at speed, very comfy leather seats, great windows, perfect HVAC system. Only quibble was a bit jiggly on stick rail at limited speed.
I've had worse rides in Superliners and Amfleet.
CMStPnPGood for you. I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
So you've never ridden one, and yet you can pass judgment on ride quality and amenities. Says a lot.
(Ignoring rather insulting stereotyping of PNW residents.)
CMStPnPAircraft same deal. I'll bet you'll fly in a Bombardier or Brazilian Jet as well as you will a Boeing. For me if it ain't Boeing or Airbus..........I ain't going. Prefer Boeing as the passenger controls are better than Airbus generally.
Sort of a moot point, actually, seeing as neither Boeing nor Airbus manufactures a regional jet. Embraer and Bombardier don't make long distance planes, so they are not in competition.
NorthWest I've found the Cascades Talgos to be smoother riding than Amfleet cars, with far larger windows. In other threads about the Wisconsin Talgos, you have consistently shown your dislike for Talgos. Can you explain your opposition?
I've found the Cascades Talgos to be smoother riding than Amfleet cars, with far larger windows.
In other threads about the Wisconsin Talgos, you have consistently shown your dislike for Talgos. Can you explain your opposition?
Good for you. I won't ever step foot in a Talgo and I am a Amtrak passenger. Americans deserve better than that crap. I don't doubt for a minute that some in the Pacific Northwest would ride on a Trailer Train Flatcar in their sandals and beads and pay fare if seat belts were available.
I guess it is a question of standards we set for ourselves. Some folks just have higher standards. Some are satisfied with a Yugo, Fiat 500, Hyundai, KIA. Others strive for more quality transportation. Frankly, if I am a private company trying to sell transportation in this country....it would be sheer madness for me to pick a Talgo trainset.
Intercity buses same deal. Some people are just overjoyed with Greyhound, Megabus and the like. Having spent some time on German buses........I would go for Setra, Mercedes or some other higher quality Motorcoach then what Greyhound or Megabus uses. Softer ride, nicer seats, larger windows and more amenities. Overall a better experience on the road. Too bad that Mercedes Bus does not market in the United States yet..........Americans have no clue what they are missing with Motorcoaches either and generally settle for second best in that arena.
Aircraft same deal. I'll bet you'll fly in a Bombardier or Brazilian Jet as well as you will a Boeing. For me if it ain't Boeing or Airbus..........I ain't going. Prefer Boeing as the passenger controls are better than Airbus generally.
CEO of FEC on CNBC this morning talking about AAF and the Amtrak Accela trainsets in favorable terms but still did not mention their equipment order. Openly stated that Amtrak Accela makes a profit for Amtrak.
Interesting but I think schlimm called it right if it is not the Accela, trainset will be based on German or French designs for HSR.
oltmannd D.Carleton There was some talk from AAF of joint stations with Tri-Rail. The commuter carrier uses the ubiquitous Bombardier Bi-Level car which is low-level loading. Has AAF reconsidered the 48" platforms? AAF doesn't say much and as a private company they don't have to. If low level, then "California Cars" are a natural - an add on order to the midwest cars...
D.Carleton There was some talk from AAF of joint stations with Tri-Rail. The commuter carrier uses the ubiquitous Bombardier Bi-Level car which is low-level loading. Has AAF reconsidered the 48" platforms? AAF doesn't say much and as a private company they don't have to.
There was some talk from AAF of joint stations with Tri-Rail. The commuter carrier uses the ubiquitous Bombardier Bi-Level car which is low-level loading. Has AAF reconsidered the 48" platforms? AAF doesn't say much and as a private company they don't have to.
If low level, then "California Cars" are a natural - an add on order to the midwest cars...
H-h-h-m-m-m-m, 400 seats per trainset sound awfully similar to what Amtrak has with the nextgeneration Accela. Have to say I like some of the new amenities especially the remote ordering system which was mention for Amtrak in another Forum and pooh-poohed by many of the Forum readers here.
http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/08/5-cool-amenities-planned-for-all-aboard-florida.html?page=2
I'd go with the Bombardier Multilevels. The BBD cars are proven and in use far more places, including at pretty high speeds on NJT.
Talgo vs Superliner?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rd2wwtcZpk
The world may never know . . .
How about these?
Work for high level platforms. If the "California Cars" are good for 125 mph - no reason these can't be, too. (with the proper suspension....)
American made (Phila?). Lots of seats per train-foot. Design current and proven. (and already paid for!) Rotem/Hyundai generally cheaper than others.
Lots of straight - flat in FL. Tilt would be a waste.
They might buy the standard French and German bilevel design, which are compatible with high platforms and should be easily made compatible with FRA requirements and configured for high-speed corridor operation. Seamans, Adtrans, and Bombardier all build cars of this basic design. They are quiet, smooth-riding cars. Other European countries and Israel also use them.
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