daveklepper I think C&WI did use head-end lighting, because they used Stillwell suburban cars identacle to those on the Erie in their Jersey City service, and those definitely were equipped for head-end lighting. I did not know that the Central ran any suburban service. The Elkhart Local is news to me. When did it last run? i also do not know of any B&O, Pere Marqette, or Erie Chicago suburban service. Where there any?
I think C&WI did use head-end lighting, because they used Stillwell suburban cars identacle to those on the Erie in their Jersey City service, and those definitely were equipped for head-end lighting. I did not know that the Central ran any suburban service. The Elkhart Local is news to me. When did it last run? i also do not know of any B&O, Pere Marqette, or Erie Chicago suburban service. Where there any?
The Elkhart local is reported to have lasted until '64. Before the war (and probably during) there were several NYC locals between Chicago and Gary and Chicago and Chesterton. Depending on how far back you want to go there were local trains on the C&EI, GTW, B&OCT, CGW, and things like Chicago to Aurora on the C&NW as well as Chicago to Williams Bay via West Chicago and Elgin, and up the Belvidere sub to Rockford and Freeport. I also believe the IC operated out the Iowa Division to Addison ( which was off on a branch about 2 miles north of the main).
The GTW had a significant funeral business serving 4 cemeteries on its route. My Great Grandfather was laid to rest via that route.
Overmod CSSHEGEWISCH The Stillwell coaches used by CWI were purchased used from Erie. Apparently in 1950. These were 'composite' Stillwells; Elwood has them built 6/26 with the original Erie numbers in the 2300 series. This was right at the time the road dieselized with RS-1s: Can't find any information of what was on the RS-1s to provide lighting power, but they were built new for C&WI, and some of them have survived into preservation (perhaps with the equipment still installed). EDIT: A roster note says that combine #40 was 'trainline lighting only'.
CSSHEGEWISCH The Stillwell coaches used by CWI were purchased used from Erie.
The Stillwell coaches used by CWI were purchased used from Erie.
Apparently in 1950. These were 'composite' Stillwells; Elwood has them built 6/26 with the original Erie numbers in the 2300 series. This was right at the time the road dieselized with RS-1s:
Can't find any information of what was on the RS-1s to provide lighting power, but they were built new for C&WI, and some of them have survived into preservation (perhaps with the equipment still installed).
EDIT: A roster note says that combine #40 was 'trainline lighting only'.
Been looking at quite a few Western Indiana RS1 shots. Can't find any with any sort of train lighting connections on the end. And this shot of coach 42 doesen't appear to have any as well although it may be hidden back in the train door where the traditional bus connection was. Note however the car seems to have a battery box. [html] http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cwi/cwi-co42alr.jpg [/html]
That was the "Dolton Demon," wasn't it?
Johnny
daveklepper with the old heavyweight commuter cars, some used electric and some used steam for heating, but all used head-end electric for lighting except the PRR Valporaiso trains, which had axle generators.
with the old heavyweight commuter cars, some used electric and some used steam for heating, but all used head-end electric for lighting except the PRR Valporaiso trains, which had axle generators.
Know the Wabash didn't use head end lighting until into the N&W era, I don't believe C&WI or NYC's Elkhart local did either.
Buslist CSSHEGEWISCH That is correct, but C&NW was the first to use HEP and run them as push-pulls. depends on what your definition of HEP is. Most of the Chicago area commuter roads supplied lighting power to even their heavyweight cars from the locomotive, or in the case of the Q a car with a lighting generator. ( remember the extra step box on the Rock's RS3s or the squared off lower nose on the North Western's geep 7s?) The higher capacity HEP of modern times was required by the addition of AC.
CSSHEGEWISCH That is correct, but C&NW was the first to use HEP and run them as push-pulls.
That is correct, but C&NW was the first to use HEP and run them as push-pulls.
depends on what your definition of HEP is. Most of the Chicago area commuter roads supplied lighting power to even their heavyweight cars from the locomotive, or in the case of the Q a car with a lighting generator. ( remember the extra step box on the Rock's RS3s or the squared off lower nose on the North Western's geep 7s?) The higher capacity HEP of modern times was required by the addition of AC.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Buslist Overmod Perhaps this will make the article available. Thanks
Overmod Perhaps this will make the article available.
Perhaps this will make the article available.
Thanks
Interesting item over at Progressive Railroading's site. Perhaps someone can set this up as a hot link. Thanks!
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/article/All-Aboard-Florida-execs-talk-Siemens-train-purchase-funding-options--42518?
Here is a long ago article on sketched in Financials for the AAF Project. Kind of vague still but gives a clearer overall picture than has been given so far in these forums........
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/print-edition/2013/09/20/will-the-numbers-in-all-aboards.html
West palm beach station construction started with demolition.
http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/wpb-station.html
new rendering of FLL station. There is also a link in the link of other artist drawings.
https://us-mg205.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&.rand=el6u3orhaljqr
Per newswire AAF has stared demolition for its Ft. Lauderdale station. They appear to definitely be going ahead. Any local comment ?
railtrail Now Everybody KNOWS that passenger trains lose money. What makes the smart people at Fortress Investment Hedge Fund/FEC think that this is any different? I say they build the line run it for a while lose massive amounts of money and then dump it on the state for a profit. Still someone on Wall Street must be a diehard railfan to risk this amount of money in the Hedge Fund at Fortress is still a blessing that i will take.
Now Everybody KNOWS that passenger trains lose money. What makes the smart people at Fortress Investment Hedge Fund/FEC think that this is any different? I say they build the line run it for a while lose massive amounts of money and then dump it on the state for a profit. Still someone on Wall Street must be a diehard railfan to risk this amount of money in the Hedge Fund at Fortress is still a blessing that i will take.
According to someone close to the action this is a real estate game. Increase the value of their holdings in Miami and elsewhere along the route. Seems a pretty expensive way to accomplish that but we'll see.
Overmod Buslist Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage? Can somebody quote the FRA prohibition of riders in 'power cars' for 125mph+ service? That's probably the reason for AAF using 'top and tail' trains: the quick reversibility of push-pull without a 'cabbage' on one end...
Buslist Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
Can somebody quote the FRA prohibition of riders in 'power cars' for 125mph+ service? That's probably the reason for AAF using 'top and tail' trains: the quick reversibility of push-pull without a 'cabbage' on one end...
From FRA's High Speed Passenger Rail Safety Strategy Novemember 2009 page 17, part 2b. "FRA's regulations for Tier II operations ... Requires that the power cars at the ends of the train exclude passengers". However Tier II covers up to 150 MPH FRA notes the possibility of using higher speed EMU sets that might include occupied end vehicles. FRA goes on to state that "there are no simple answers to the question of whether passenger seating in cab cars is appropriate. The answer will require careful research and full consideration of the operating environment where the transit operates."
daveklepper regarding siemans using cummings diesels. all israel railroad locomotives of whatever manufacture that are currently in operation use usa diesels. the vosslov and alstom locomotives all use emd diesels. there are still a few aclos in local freight and switching. apparently as prime movers, usa products have a better reputation for reliability than european products -or chinese or whatever also, 18 years ago when i first moved here to stay, cars on the road were mostly european and japanese. mercedes still domnates the taxi fleets, but otheriwse there are now plenty of chevies and fords, many dfferent sizes and types. but they may be made in europe too.
regarding siemans using cummings diesels. all israel railroad locomotives of whatever manufacture that are currently in operation use usa diesels. the vosslov and alstom locomotives all use emd diesels. there are still a few aclos in local freight and switching.
apparently as prime movers, usa products have a better reputation for reliability than european products -or chinese or whatever
also, 18 years ago when i first moved here to stay, cars on the road were mostly european and japanese. mercedes still domnates the taxi fleets, but otheriwse there are now plenty of chevies and fords, many dfferent sizes and types. but they may be made in europe too.
BuslistActually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
gregrudd To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's
To me AAF appears to have embraced the British HST 125 operating model, purchasing what is in effect and updated and Americanised HST 125. Which surprised me as I was expecting them to go push-pull bi-level which is the normal short/medium distance operational model in North America. Is this a statement on the conservatism of the Amtrak and Commuter agencies who for the most part using the C&NW commuter operational model from the 1950's
Why would a commuter operator want to use a top and tailed operation. Push in gives the commuter a shorter walk to and from the cars at the downtown terminal and the additional HP for higher speeds is not required.
Actually Amtrak uses the top and tailed (UK term) on the Michigan services, will this be the model in Il once there is more 110 mileage?
CMStPnP Happy they went with Siemens and knew that nobody would take Talgo seriously outside of the Political side.
Happy they went with Siemens and knew that nobody would take Talgo seriously outside of the Political side.
Talgo tilting suspension is designed for a curvy route, the additional expense has no business here or in Chicago Milwaukee service.
Aerial rendering of the MIA Central station (AAF) Certaily can see FECI's real estate thinking.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article2538964.html
The choice of using a Cummins prime mover is an interesting one (I suspect this is being done more to improve US local content and their large support network in the US over anything else) over either an MTU or the MAN-B&W Paxman 18-VP185 Which in 12 cyl form is well known in the HST125/XPT
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