I have been a passenger three times when we have had collisions with people and vehicles. First was in Albuquerque on Train 3, coming into town a drunk minivan driver went around several stopped cars and past the down gates and was shredded under our train. Three fatals. The second was south of Pontiac, IL, where an elderly gentleman plowed into the side of the first coach of train 305. The conducter and I walked the 1/2 mile back to the crossing (neither of us had seen anything but passengers in the first coach reported the collision). Ironically, we could not see anything amiss at the crossing and were actually starting to walk back to the train when I heard moaning, and "Help me!" Looking down in a creek bed was a flattened, overturned blue Dodge pick up, when the sole occupant pinned upside down. I worked with him (ex-EMTs never die, they just get loaded out) while the conductor called EMS and a helicopter flew the man to Peoria. He was not seriously injured amazingly enough. I prayed hard for the guy, I learned later that 10 years ago to the day his son had commmitted suicide in front of a train at the same crossing. Finally, near Red Wing, MN, someone drunk turned off a snowy crossing onto the tracks and we plowed through their car, they bailed at the last moment and were unhurt.
In all cases, a minimum of three hours was required, mostly due to waiting for track/train inspectors to check the condition of damage to track and the train cars. In the fatal case, the coroner had to spend a couple additional hours cleaning body parts from under the train and the crew all requested replacement as well.
Sunnyland Sometime in the 50's, my cousin was coming up from New Orleans on IC and train was over 4 hours late arriving in St. L. The train had hit a car in MS and someone died, so they had to sit there until investigations were finished and then the train proceeded on its way. This was long before buses were sent to remove passengers, they just had to sit and wait it out.
Sometime in the 50's, my cousin was coming up from New Orleans on IC and train was over 4 hours late arriving in St. L. The train had hit a car in MS and someone died, so they had to sit there until investigations were finished and then the train proceeded on its way. This was long before buses were sent to remove passengers, they just had to sit and wait it out.
Normally, busses are only arranged when the train involved in the incident has sustained mechanical damage that won't permit it to continue to destination. If the train is 'just' waiting on the authorities to wrap up their investigation, the passengers stay with the train.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Firelock76 Hate to be a cynic, but wait until some politician or local big shot gets inconvenienced, I guarantee you you'll see a change, fast!
Hate to be a cynic, but wait until some politician or local big shot gets inconvenienced, I guarantee you you'll see a change, fast!
Well the general consensus in Texas at least is one of understanding. I know where your comming from and I get irritated when a fire truck blocks three lanes of traffic on a freeway for a one lane accident but generally, I am in the minority.
A train is a different story though and sudden braking on a train can cause more problems than sudden braking in a automobile. I think it prudent that a train would need to be inspected after a sudden stop. I am far more tolerant of an accident related delay on a train than I am in a car. BTW, when I was in the Army I used to load Armored Vehicles and tie them down on flatcars on the German National Railway system (DB). DB would inspect our work to make sure we did a good job but you can picture even with tie down chains what a sudden stop will do to a anchored 13-70 ton Armored Vehicle on a flatcar........it's going to shift no matter how much anchoring you do.
You might ask what my training was to tie down heavy loads on the DB system the next time you use their high speed passenger trains. Welp, absolutely minimal training. I was a 19-20 year old Infantryman at the time. You have to stand back in awe sometimes at the awesome responsibility the U.S. Army allots to the younger men in uniform but it is pretty awesome at times. Again our work was spot inspected by DB rail inspectors but still......think about the consequences of one poorly tied down tank that shifts it's position on a flat car.
In the Baltimore-Washington metropolitan area (includes Northern Virginia), you can't swing a dead cat around without hitting a politician (take your pick, local, state, federal and their combined back office staffs) - and the delays are some of the worst in the country.
Firelock76 One thing's for certain: no one, and I mean NO ONE, would put up with traffic on a major highway being totally stopped for two, four, six, eight hours or more for an accident investigation. At the least there'd be some angry letters to the editor of the local paper, at worst a full-blown riot. I realize it's an "apples and oranges" situation, but in an open and shut case of trespassing or grade-crossing foolishness there shouldn't be any reason for a super-long delay. Or maybe getting a rail line open and running again just doesn't have the same urgency as getting a highway open.
One thing's for certain: no one, and I mean NO ONE, would put up with traffic on a major highway being totally stopped for two, four, six, eight hours or more for an accident investigation. At the least there'd be some angry letters to the editor of the local paper, at worst a full-blown riot.
I realize it's an "apples and oranges" situation, but in an open and shut case of trespassing or grade-crossing foolishness there shouldn't be any reason for a super-long delay.
Or maybe getting a rail line open and running again just doesn't have the same urgency as getting a highway open.
Actually that is not quite true, we have closed a major freeway here in Dallas for a lot longer than a few hours in order for Police to complete their investigation and cleanup.
mudchicken Not said anywhere in here is the fact it may be the coroner, not the police or state agency that has final release on the train. If it's a rural area, that could be an eternity. (first you have to find the coroner)
Not said anywhere in here is the fact it may be the coroner, not the police or state agency that has final release on the train. If it's a rural area, that could be an eternity. (first you have to find the coroner)
Had a incident - DB at the 'worst road crossing in Maryland'. Local police on scene - body in multiple parts - need the Coroner to pronounce the individual deae - 3 hours and the Coroner get on the scene, takes a minute and pronounces the individual dead and leaves (Coroner doesn't remove the body) 5 more hours waiting for the 'body snatchers' to arrive from 3 counties away (outsourcing) to pick up the pieces, and nobody removed the parts of the remains that were attached to the engine. Over 8 hours being shut down on a double track railroad. Fortunately it was a weekend and MARC service did not get disrupted as it would have had the incident happened during the week. Carrier officials and Police were on scene trying to get things moving to no avail.
ACYBaltACD: Not sure what you meant by your response. I was just pointing out the irony. If you took offense, none was intended & I apologize. But we were early on the northbound trip too. And early arriving back at Sanford yesterday morning and back to Lorton this morning. Tom
No offense - just stating facts!
Despite what many may think - running Amtrak without delay is a priority on CSX.
I read several stories today about auto accidents closing major highways from two to 6 hours. No body complained to the conductor.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
BT/DT, (been there,....)
Two to (not whistle sounds) relate: a passenger train, late because of a fatality vehicle collision. was waiting to be pulled through the West Oakland car washer;as hostler I was caretaker of the inbound, call it, killing power.
Walking around (to engine crews), that's a technical term, I saw some tissue which I confidently can say was from a brain, on the engine's frame.
Another: a good Saturday, 6 hours on duty for 8 hours pay, and an hour away, a suicide.....jumped-up, saw his face and the child he was holding....few feet from the cab end of our pair of SW1500', heading for home at 50 mph.
What's most ghastly, morbid, horrible?
We were released when the responder's could not find a casualty's arm.
They recognized the futility
ACYBaltACD: Not trying to rub it in, but you went South Friday, Dec. 20 by car & I went South on then Auto Train the same evening. You got stuck in highway traffic. We got in about an hour early (don't remember the exact timing on that one). We were scheduled for a 9:30 arrival, but got into Sanford around 8:00 & began detraining before 8:30. Not sure what that means. Of course, if some knucklehead had pulled out in front of our train, we might have had the same delay as you had. Length of time for this kind of thing: USUALLY no more than 4 or 5 hours at the worst. Sometimes only about an hour or so. Longest delays occur when there are fatalities or if the loco is damaged. Amtrak doesn't have strategically-placed extra crews and locos available on short notice. Tom
And I was in part responsible for your trip from Lorton to Richmond.
Several years ago, I was riding home from work on Metra's Southwest Service when the train clobbered the back end of a semi-trailer in the grade crossing at Cicero Avenue in Oak Lawn. The truck was caught in traffic stopped at a red light about a block north of the grade crossing. No injuries in this accident so we were able to proceed in about 45 minutes.
Traveled from Maryland to NE Florida Friday night to Saturday morning - got to the St. Marys River Bridge (FL/GA State Line) and came to a stop - 14.4 miles and 3 hours later got past a wreck that had occurred 7 hours earlier and put 40 tons of lettuce on the road! There was no detour set up.
Went from NE Florida to South Florida - South of St. Augustine there was a 2 truck accident with a fatality and gas tanker on fire - occurred 4:30 AM Christmas Eve and roadway wasn't reopened until about 8 PM - after a segment of the roadway that had been severely burned had been repaved. NB traffic was being detoured on other surface roads.
My experience with fatalities on the major interstates in California that only the affected lanes are closed off and that the investigations are usually wrapped up in a couple of hours. One reason for the rapid clearing of the scene is that the traffic jams created by the investigations usually lead to more wrecks. Caltrans and the CHP usually make an effort to re-route traffic if a wreck clean-up is going to take a while.
My impression is that a good fraction of the fatalities occurring on the LOSSAN corridor are due to people trespassing on the ROW or people committing suicide.
- Erik
It is all a matter of law. Here in Georgia if a motor vehicle is involved then if the route is an interstate, US road. or state route the state patrol investigates unless they let a local jurisdiction to investigate. ( does not happen much ). Then if on a county road the county investigates. On town and city roads the city investigates unless it is a state route see above. Some counties the medical examiner or corner ( elected position with no medical background needed ) will be called with no movement until same examines scene.
To further complicate now with all the litigation going on persons at accident scene can request pictures, diagrams, etc be done before any clearing of scene. Every state probably has different rules.
To further complicate here in Georgia the sovereign immunity law is very strong there by investigators try very hard to take that in consideration mainly that the government did not do anything deliberate..
. auntiluin car
Firelock76 Hi John! Shunted off to a side road and essentially forgotten? You and who knows how many others? That sounds to me like an absolutely lousy example of traffic detouring and routing. OK, Route 1 in Edison isn't exactly Route 95, but the local "Johnny Laws" should have been more on the ball than that! Or maybe Jersey cops aren't what they used to be. Who knows? None of the cops I used to know would have pulled something like that. Wayne
Hi John!
Shunted off to a side road and essentially forgotten? You and who knows how many others? That sounds to me like an absolutely lousy example of traffic detouring and routing. OK, Route 1 in Edison isn't exactly Route 95, but the local "Johnny Laws" should have been more on the ball than that!
Or maybe Jersey cops aren't what they used to be. Who knows? None of the cops I used to know would have pulled something like that.
Wayne
Was traveling I-95 Jacksonville to Savannah - a 2 hour trip.
Accident on the NB lanes North of mile 26 - Authorities detoured traffic on surface roads around the affected area, returning to I-95 about mile 38.
Length of trip - 6 hours.
Accident on SB I-95 in North Carolina - detoured on surface roads and other interstates - additional mileage 70 miles and additional time 3 hours.
It does happen on highways!
Thousands of people and/or millions of dollars in freight billings delayed for hours because some doofus drives onto a railroad track? I think not. Hold onto the engineer for all the pro forma questions, if you must, but otherwise -- in the absence of damage to the train or track -- get a new engineer to the scene as quickly as possible and let him proceed with the train.
It's flat stupid to treat this like an accident at a street intersection in which the facts often require extensive interviews and measurements to establish.
Firelock76Shunted off to a side road and essentially forgotten? You and who knows how many others? That sounds to me like an absolutely lousy example of traffic detouring and routing. OK, Route 1 in Edison isn't exactly Route 95, but the local "Johnny Laws" should have been more on the ball than that!
Wayne,
You are right that US Route 1 in Edison is not I 95. It is not limited access but it is 3 lanes in each direction and it is pretty busy. This happen after I got off the Parkway and before the Raritan River Bridge. I would have appreciated it if the police could have gotten us moving faster or redirected us to another north--south road but they didn't. We just sat there. A kind person lent me her cell phone so I could call my wife and tell her I was stuck but OK.
John
Firelock76One thing's for certain: no one, and I mean NO ONE, would put up with traffic on a major highway being totally stopped for two, four, six, eight hours or more for an accident investigation.
I hate to disagree but that exact thing happened to me in Edison, New Jersey driving south on Route 1. There was a truck collision. I was shunted off to a side road and soon had to stop because it was a parking lot, both in front and in back of me. I sat there for over 4 hours along with a lot of other drivers.
Trains are not the only things that have accidents. When they happen it just takes the time it takes.
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