I don't think Schlimm's comments were rude so much as crude. Plus, if one is a commuter he's got to get to work or home. And if he was sitting in the last seat in the last car or anyplace other than at the point of impact for that matter, what could he contribute to the investigation even if held in place for 24 hours. Yes, facts and accuracy are important, but holding trains and non involved train riders for hours on end seems like wasting the time of too many not directly involved....a train travels a track with grade crossings everyday, one day somebody drives onto the track in front of the train; the driver of the car ad the driver of the train are the two people who are the only two involved who witnessed the whole thing. along with those who may have been not aboard the train but watching the train and grade crossing; so why should those aboard the train be waylayed for so long?
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ejjski If a passenger train was involved, could the people be bussed from the train if they know they're going to be waiting there for 2-6 hours?
If a passenger train was involved, could the people be bussed from the train if they know they're going to be waiting there for 2-6 hours?
It would probably take 4 - 6 hours just to arrange for the busses, let alone getting them to the location where the incident has happened and then transfering passengers in a area that is not equipped for passengers on the ground.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The worst thing that has happened to accident investigation, from a railroad perspective, is the popularity of the CSI television franchise - everyone on the scene believes they are the next 'Gil Grissom' and will discover a murder in the incident.
For a non-fatal incident with significant vehicle damage you can look for a minimum of 2 hours delay and more likely 3. If fatalities are involved, in addition to the first responders, the coroner has to be summoned to pronounce the bodies dead and the body removal personnel summoned (in many cases the coroner does not remove the bodies). With fatalities 4 to 6 hours has become the norm. I have been involved with incidents that took 10 hours to open up to rail traffic.
Rail personnel when dispatched to the scene will do everything possible to get rail traffic moving, however, they do not control the situation. When local authorities say rail traffic can resume - it will resume, and not before.
schlimm It is sad and just too bad if the consequence is delay.
It is sad and just too bad if the consequence is delay.
For most people a two hour delay is nothing more than an annoyance, but for a few it can be a true hardship (e.g on the way to a job interview). On the LOSSAN corridor, fatalities involving trespassers are a common enough occurrence that it discourages some people from taking the train.
My "rude" comment was sarcasm directed at the commuters forn whom being delayed seems more important than investigation of a fatal accident. I have worked with engineers and emergency personnel involved with crossing accidents. It is sad and just too bad if the consequence is delay.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Schlimm:
I am retired NP-BN-BNSF clerk from Minneapolis. Your comment is rude. Having worked with the Claims and Operating Departments, I know that crossing accidents can be very time consuming. The local police and railroad employees must thoroughly investigate each incident. The train and track must be inspected for derailed cars and possible track damage. If the accident is of a fatal nature, the conductor and engineer must have a urine test and they may ask for another crew to take the train to its destination. Also, signal data from their field must be accessed to see if the signals are working properly. If a passenger train is involved, then the conductor or other employee MUST obtain the names and addresses of all passengers on the train and determine if they are injured or not.
We had a four fatal accident at a crossing in Anoka, MN several years ago. The incident tied up the main line between Northtown Yard and Fargo most of the night.
The best feature of new locomotives and cab cars is a forwarding facing camera to document what is going on. I saw the video of a double accident in northern Minnesota several years. The car failed to stop at an unsignaled crossing.
Ed Burns of Anoka, MN
So just shove the car to one side, scape the remains off the lead car or engine and giddyup?
For people commuting to work, the delay can most definitely be a hardship.
Is that delay to investigatea hardship for you?
It depends on the complexity of the investigation.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Two to four hours seems to be the range in southern California.
- Erik
Any vehicle or train involved in an accident is required to stay in place until police release it..half hour or half day or whole day or whatever. They have to be sure they've interviewed everyone involved, gotten all the information and correctly, too, know all they think they can know before allowing people and vehicles and trains to leave the scene.
Just would like to know how long the train has to sit there if it strikes a person/vehicle at a grade crossing and doesn't derail?
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