Or perhaps, to look at this another way, take a leaf from history and provide amenities in PART of a car otherwise dedicated to conventional baggage, the amenities being something otherwise not available on the train. (The example that sprang to my mind was a rolling Burger King or Subway franchise... but that's just my sense of humor) What are some other examples of this? (ISTR that crew dorms associated with baggage cars were used, but don't have references at hand...)
Both deck-height and possum-belly storage on the same 'baggage' car, with baggage loaded appropriately to destination...and some procedure to pull the train past the platform if access to baggage in the 'wrong' place becomes necessary in emergencies? ...
RME
John WR PS. Maybe it is time to reconsider Amtrak Express Service. I know the idea was tried and abandoned as it was not profitable. But perhaps with more careful planning the idea could be profitable.
PS. Maybe it is time to reconsider Amtrak Express Service. I know the idea was tried and abandoned as it was not profitable. But perhaps with more careful planning the idea could be profitable.
You have pointed out in another post the issue of the host railroads objecting to Amtrak essentially competing for freight business.
How do you propose getting around that?
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1 You have pointed out in another post the issue of the host railroads objecting to Amtrak essentially competing for freight business.
In fact Amtrak was in the express business at one time so they must have come to an understanding with the freight railroads. Amtrak got out of the business because it was not sufficiently profitable. I don't know whether Amtrak incurred a loss or not.
Actually I don't see any conflict with freight railroads unless they were to decide to go back into the express business themselves.
Very interesting ideas. In all the train rides I've taken, never checked any baggage. We always hauled it on the coaches and they fit OK in the overhead racks.
On Amtrak LD, I've had the deluxe bedroom and kept my cases inside the room with me. Learned to travel as light as possible from taking TWA tours to Europe and being limited to two bags.
My parents and I did ride in a combo coach/baggage car on the ACL in FL, had never seen that type of car before. At the time, they did not have newer equipment, some of the coaches had fans mounted at the ends of cars, which meant they had been built before a/c.
I think the other half of all baggage cars should be set up with exercise equipment. For a reasonable charge the passangers could work off some of the calories they conusmed from the dining car. I could go for that!
sno-catI think the other half of all baggage cars should be set up with exercise equipment.
I think you have an excellent idea. And more cars could be added. A car with a barber shop and beauty salon, a library car, a theatre car that would show movies. A billiards car. With a little time I could think of many more.
Priorities!!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimmPriorities!!
Would you care to join me for a game of chess in the new recreation car? Or if we can find two more for bridge there is another car for card games.
Those are nice, but i think the future of passenger rail is far better served by having faster trains and real service in the corridors.
John WR sno-catI think the other half of all baggage cars should be set up with exercise equipment. I think you have an excellent idea. And more cars could be added. A car with a barber shop and beauty salon, a library car, a theatre car that would show movies. A billiards car. With a little time I could think of many more.
Are you jesting, here, or are you offering these suggestions in all seriousness. It is sometimes hard to tell with the absence of the smiley face icon. At the risk of being pedantic, I shall address your remarks in seriousness. My serious response is that what you are proposing has been tried before.
There was this Robert Young fellow, a fiancier and entrepreneur with grand dreams of saving the railroad passenger business. He purchased a controlling interest in the C&O and later the New York Central. The whole concept of a passenger railroad "corridor" is one of many spin-offs of his plans and ideas in the 1950's.
One of his ideas was "The Chessie", and all-new day-train streamliner from D.C. to Cincinnati, OH. The Chessie was chock-a-block with various passenger amenities -- dome cars, child day-care sections, you name it. It even included an aquarium for tropical fish. It was also to be propelled by an innovative (read complicated) coal-burning steam-turbine electric locomotive.
The locomotives never did work properly, and the story I heard was that the vibration or sloshing of the train ride killed the fish. Your billiards car idea, is a joke, no, otherwise, how would the balls stay put on the table between turns, or maybe judging by other remarks made here, we are to take the idea seriously?
To the extent that steel wheel on steel rail mode can move tonnage for very low cost, one would think that one of the comparative advantages of a train is to make it like a cruise ship where a lot of space is devoted to making the journey more pleasant in relation to the sardine cans of buses and airliners.
But if you want to operate at passenger train speeds and with passenger comfort with respect to ride quality and air conditioning, is tonnage, but more importantly passenger space provided at lower cost on trains than on the other modes? During the WW-II traffic boom, passenger trains were sardine cans, but after the war, the effort was to compete by making the trains much more pleasant -- dome cars, private room sleeping a accomodations, lounge cars, etc. Those post-war efforts didn't work out financially for whatever reason, but the idea of trains offering lots of space seems to be "baselined" in many discussions of the merits of passenger trains.
Maybe another analogy was how the British government post WW-II put its aviation funding into the Bristol Brabazon. Look it up -- the Brabazon was jumbo-jet sized, but it carried a mere 100 or so passengers in a style recognizable to train enthusiasts -- lounges, state rooms (meant for long, slow trips to the far reaches of the Empire, India and other places). It never went into production, and aviation switched over to small, fast transport -- the Comet and later the 707 and DC-8 jets.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Swimming pool, hot tub, bowling, racquetball court, etc, etc.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd John WR sno-catI think the other half of all baggage cars should be set up with exercise equipment. I think you have an excellent idea. And more cars could be added. A car with a barber shop and beauty salon, a library car, a theatre car that would show movies. A billiards car. With a little time I could think of many more. Swimming pool, hot tub, bowling, racquetball court, etc, etc.
Casino! (but that would make it revenue space...sorry.)
Yes, there was a train with a swimming pool. Do you remember the televison show "Super Train" (or something like that) of 20-30-years ago? As I recall, it was wide gauge (ran on two parallel tracks?), and ran out of Grand Central Terminal (and one episode had the announcement of the arrival of the Silver Meteor at the same station).
Johnny
DeggestyYes, there was a train with a swimming pool. Do you remember the televison show "Super Train" (or something like that) of 20-30-years ago?
Ah yes, Fred Silverman's version of 'The Love Boat' just enough removed from the maritime context to evade... unsuccessfully, as I recall ... being considered a rip-off. (And as dated in its Seventiness as the "Man from Uncle" now seems to be in Sixtiness...)
If you must consider what's possible, go look at the interiors for the 'Breitspurbahn' proposals of the Thirties and early Forties. I'm not going to Godwin this, and I hope nobody else does, but on a 3-meter gauge many things become feasible...
... swimming pools, however, not so much. And Fred even had the contemporary SDP40F follies to advise him why a pool in a railroad car was a Bad Idea, even with chippies galore jiggling therein. Who can be first to tell me why this is so? (Line forms at poolside...)
oltmanndSwimming pool,
That's want I want. A swimming pool car. It's my right as an American citizen. I want it now.
John WR oltmanndSwimming pool, That's want I want. A swimming pool car. It's my right as an American citizen. I want it now.
Along with a foolproof plan and an airtight alibi???
erikem John WR oltmanndSwimming pool, That's want I want. A swimming pool car. It's my right as an American citizen. I want it now. Along with a foolproof plan and an airtight alibi???
...and a baby's arm holding an apple.
This thread has been a good example of an unintentional reductio ad absurdem. Baggage cars are an anachronism in modern passenger railroading.
So, what do you want from life?
BTW, I just took a look at Don Oltmann's 's blog listed at the bottom of his page and strongly recommend it!
I work as a station host at a fairly busy CA station and there is no dout that baggage storage under cars simply won't work. The amount of stuff that people bring aboard is amazing. The time i would take to stow it just wouldn't make sense. Sorting it out at each station would be nearly impossible. I don't think that most responders realize that virtually no one use regular suitcases or duffel bags any more. Virtually every one uses wheeled suitcases which present wholly different storage issues. Under the car just wouldn't work even if there was room which there isn't.
A casino car could help Amtrak pay more of its own way. Bring it on!!!
Nat SVirtually every one uses wheeled suitcases which present wholly different storage issues. Under the car just wouldn't work even if there was room which there isn't.
Interesting point. Actually, I wonder why it took so long to develop wheeled suitcases. But you are right about them.
Yes, wheeled suitcases are quite practical, especially those with just two wheels. When the first ones, with four wheels, came out close to sixty years ago, even they were a great advance from those that required the user to lift the suitcase clear from the ground. When my wife went to Germany in the fifties, using one of the new styles, a German lady, upon seeing it, exclaimed "Wie practikt," (or something like that). You had to pack those with four wheels carefully, lest they be heavy on one side and fall over as you pulled them along.
Many years ago I was involved in building a special train for Marlborough cigarettes. It was going to be a party type train. The train had cars with dance floors, hot tubs, casino, bar, and everything else you could imagine. It was designed to be a 18 car train. It went over the 20 million budget with three cars left to be produced. After it went over budget, Marlborough was so angry they had nearly ever car cut up on the spot.
I had never seen anything like it in my life. Brand new finished passenger cars built from the ground up getting cut up by a mobile shear. It was a colossal waste of time, energy, and money.
Nat S I work as a station host at a fairly busy CA station and there is no dout that baggage storage under cars simply won't work. The amount of stuff that people bring aboard is amazing. The time i would take to stow it just wouldn't make sense. Sorting it out at each station would be nearly impossible. I don't think that most responders realize that virtually no one use regular suitcases or duffel bags any more. Virtually every one uses wheeled suitcases which present wholly different storage issues. Under the car just wouldn't work even if there was room which there isn't.
The idea was for checked bags, not to replace overhead storage for carry-on.
Thomas 9011 Many years ago I was involved in building a special train for Marlborough cigarettes. It was going to be a party type train. The train had cars with dance floors, hot tubs, casino, bar, and everything else you could imagine. It was designed to be a 18 car train. It went over the 20 million budget with three cars left to be produced. After it went over budget, Marlborough was so angry they had nearly ever car cut up on the spot. I had never seen anything like it in my life. Brand new finished passenger cars built from the ground up getting cut up by a mobile shear. It was a colossal waste of time, energy, and money.
Did they have a solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot?
oltmannd Thomas 9011 Many years ago I was involved in building a special train for Marlborough cigarettes. It was going to be a party type train. The train had cars with dance floors, hot tubs, casino, bar, and everything else you could imagine. It was designed to be a 18 car train. It went over the 20 million budget with three cars left to be produced. After it went over budget, Marlborough was so angry they had nearly ever car cut up on the spot. I had never seen anything like it in my life. Brand new finished passenger cars built from the ground up getting cut up by a mobile shear. It was a colossal waste of time, energy, and money. Did they have a solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot?
OK, so Marlboro Cigarettes (Philip Morris, I guess) spent 20 million dollars to build 15 passenger cars (3 short of 18) from the ground up?
1.3 million per passenger car with custom interiors sounds like a bargain, whether they are build new or are top-to-bottom rebuilds. I had read in Trains that (the now defunct) Colorado Railcar was building those Superdomes and other cars starting with old Southern Pacific commuter gallery cars, but their product looked like completely new designs when they were done.
So, could Amtrak contract out to Philip Morris for their new passenger car buy?
Thomas 9011 had never seen anything like it in my life. Brand new finished passenger cars built from the ground up getting cut up by a mobile shear. It was a colossal waste of time, energy, and money.
had never seen anything like it in my life. Brand new finished passenger cars built from the ground up getting cut up by a mobile shear. It was a colossal waste of time, energy, and money.
Thomas,
Do you have any insight into why Marlborough decided to build the train in the first place? If I were to decide to build a train I would make it a point to be sure I wanted to go through with the project before I began. Cost over runs are not unusual in this world. What the private sector is supposed to offer us is cost efficiency but it is hard to understand how these two decisions contribute to that goal.
With best regards, John
I wonder about that story, too. Someone involved should know the brand was/is Marlboro.
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