Dayliner I'm just a little surprised, from a safety point of view, that there is not a straightforward way of identifying every inch of line along the NEC.
So before they get around to broadening any curves they've already lost the exact distance. Then they do broaden some curves (or maybe just lengthen spirals, which will have the same effect). Then they rearrange the whole railroad between Zoo and Arsenal (which shifts the mileposts)-- then they rearrange it again a few decades later. That's all before Penn Central comes along-- maybe PC didn't change the RR much, but who knows how much old paper they dumped. Then Amtrak comes along and makes more changes to the railroad.
Some railfans like to think all the information is naturally all on paper in a vault somewhere. There may be a vault, and if we're lucky it's stuffed with bales of info, some up to date and some not, and some unknown percentage that was never right in the first place. The hopefully up to date info doesn't quite agree with the old info-- do we know why? Whoever knew the answer to that retired fifty years ago.
Deggesty henry6: Deggesty: Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston? As a railfan, probably yes. As a traveler my goal would be Hudson..we H's have to stay together even if not in order. Oh Henry! Very good.
henry6: Deggesty: Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston? As a railfan, probably yes. As a traveler my goal would be Hudson..we H's have to stay together even if not in order.
Deggesty: Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston?
Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston?
As a railfan, probably yes. As a traveler my goal would be Hudson..we H's have to stay together even if not in order.
Didn't you ever wonder where the phrase "where the 'H' are we?" came from?
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Well every inch of every right of way is registered, designated, and otherwise accounted for, including the Northeast Corridor. This information is in employee timetables, schedules, books of rules, track diagrams, property and tax maps, etc. and are for the eyes of employees of the railroads only. There is no reason to(and many reasons to not) allow the general public to have access to that information. That being said, there is a lot of this information out there in the hands of railfans. The information is in a form for the benefit of railroads and their employees; fans want the same information for other reasons than which it is presented.
Thanks again--the question may not be answered, but I sure learned a lot! Complicated trackage with a complicated history means there is no simple track designation, obviously. I'm just a little surprised, from a safety point of view, that there is not a straightforward way of identifying every inch of line along the NEC.
henry6 Deggesty: Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston? As a railfan, probably yes. As a traveler my goal would be Hudson..we H's have to stay together even if not in order.
Johnny
Dayliner Thanks so much! This is certainly filling in some of the gaps in my knowledge. But my original question is still unanswered--viz., what are the names of the various segments?
Thanks so much! This is certainly filling in some of the gaps in my knowledge. But my original question is still unanswered--viz., what are the names of the various segments?
There is no real answer, at least not one honed the way you wish. Overall, it has been answered according to Amtrak official operating procedures and documents. Still there are leftovers from Conrail, Penn Central, New Haven, and PRR offical procedures and documents coupled with coloquialisms and other unoffcial designations. Each segment has gone through many physical changes since being built plus railroads were prone to move segments on paper from one division or sub or branch or whatever to another...but as I said it was on paper, could have lasted a week or never changed. A lot is probably simplified for operations sake instead of the NHNR division from New Haven to New Rochelle and NR to HGW from New Rochelle to Hell Gate West and HFWH Hell Gate West to Harold, say, it is just New Haven to Harold on whatever the designation is (not having an Amtrak employees timetable handy).
Deggesty Henry, are you sure you want go back to Harold after passing through there on the way from Boston?
Timz, I at last pulled an Amtrak tt out, to see what it (not my"quick reference," which is a listing of my miles) says.
The lower level of 30th St. is 1.5 miles from Zoo, which is at mp 88.0 on the line from Jersey City. Now, just where on Zoo is not stated--it just notes "Zoo." Penn is also 1.5 miles from Zoo. The next point shown after Penn is Civic--which is 2.3 miles from the suburban station. After Civic is Phil (3.6 mi.), which apparently is a connection to the Harrisburg line for C. R. C. (8-25-86 tt), and then Brill (4.2 mi.), and Darby (6.1 mi.)
The PRR always irritated me because it did not show the distance between stations.
Deggesty As well as I can tell, 30th St. (on the NYC-Washington track) is mp 89.2, and it is mp 1.5 from Broad Street.
timz Starting from Boston I think the mileposts go like this-- Counting down to Milepost Zero at 42nd St in Manhattan (i.e. a bit south of the end of track at GCT) as far as the junction just west of New Rochelle, then Counting down to Milepost Zero At NY Penn-- hopefully the same Milepost Zero as they used going west from NY Penn, but who knows. It seems westward Milepost Zero isn't quite midway between 7th Ave and 8th Ave; maybe it was the center of the waiting room? West from NY Penn the mileposts shift at about 8.6 from NY Penn, jumping back to about 7.2 from downtown NY. There was no actual Milepost Zero downtown; end of track at Jersey City was set at MP 1 exactly. Hard to say where the next change is-- maybe Zoo, maybe Arsenal-- probably not 30th St. In any case, Arsenal to somewhere near Washington (Washington Union Terminal limits?) is mileposted from Zero at Broad St Philadelphia.
Starting from Boston I think the mileposts go like this--
Counting down to Milepost Zero at 42nd St in Manhattan (i.e. a bit south of the end of track at GCT) as far as the junction just west of New Rochelle, then
Counting down to Milepost Zero At NY Penn-- hopefully the same Milepost Zero as they used going west from NY Penn, but who knows. It seems westward Milepost Zero isn't quite midway between 7th Ave and 8th Ave; maybe it was the center of the waiting room?
West from NY Penn the mileposts shift at about 8.6 from NY Penn, jumping back to about 7.2 from downtown NY. There was no actual Milepost Zero downtown; end of track at Jersey City was set at MP 1 exactly.
Hard to say where the next change is-- maybe Zoo, maybe Arsenal-- probably not 30th St. In any case, Arsenal to somewhere near Washington (Washington Union Terminal limits?) is mileposted from Zero at Broad St Philadelphia.
Now consider the practice followed on other roads, the SP and the Hill roads in particular. If there was a change in actual mileage on the SP, you would find two different mp's at a station--the first one is the new mp after the change, and the second one is the original mp. It's easy to spot these in the employee tt. The Hill roads (NP, GN, & Q, in particular) will show the distance from station to station in the station column--and the sum of these distances is not always the same as the distances indicated by the mile posts; for instance, the distance from Chicago Union Station to Pacific Junction is 475.7 miles--but Pacific Junction is at mp 475.5 (there are many differences along the way, but my quick reference shows the overall, and not the individual differences).
And, you will have an interesting note in a tt, such as the one in the CSX tt with the line from Jacksonville to Tampa that tells you that it is so many feet (0.1 mile is the closest in miles) from mp 768 to mp 771, and the one in the Rio Grande tt that tells you that it is so many feet (0.7 mile is the closest in miles) from mp 393 to 395.
By the way, remember that the NE Corridor does not go through Grand Central, but uses the Hell Gate Bridge, so you have the change near New Rochelle.
While considering lines other than the NE Corridor, I find it interesting that Penn Station is closer to the junction (CP12) with the Grand Central-Rensselaer line than Grand Central is--CP12 is only 10.2 miles from Penn Station, but is 11.8 miles from Grand Central.
From the Amtrak operating timetable, the mileage segments for the NE Corridor are Boston South Station to CP 216 (near New Rochelle) , CP 216 (via Hell Gate) to Penn Station, Penn Station to Hudson, Hudson to 30th St (Philadelphia), 30th St. through Washington Union Station to Virginia Ave. Even though Metro North owns the track from Grand Central to New Haven, and Amtrak uses Metro North between New Haven and CP216, the mileposts have not been changed.
You actually are missing several "segments" that make up the Corridor...I believe there is a Boston to New Haven, New Haven to New Rochelle, New Rochelle to Sunnyside, Sunnyside to Penn Sta, Penn Sta to Harold, Harold to Trenton, Trenton to Philadelphia, Philadelphia to Wilmington and Wilmington to Ivy City. These are different divisions of different railroads of different eras. I am sure an Amtrak employee or Employees timetable can put them all together for you. Good Luck!
I'm learning something about the complex history and ownership of the line we usually refer to as the "Northeast Corridor", that it wasn't built as such and is a knitting-together of many former lines. I understand that the mileposts on the route do not run consecutively from one end of the line to the other. As far as I can determine, the NEC is divided (in terms of milepost numbering) into four sections: Boston-New York (the former NYNH&H and predecessors); and New York-Philadelphia, Philadelphia-Landover and Landover-Washington (the former PRR and predecessors). What is the designation of each of these line segments today?
Thanks in advance!
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