edbenton wrote:EMD is going to be in a WORLD of hurt then if they are determined to stick with the 710 for the future. I have seen the proposed tier 3 emisson standards and there is no way a 2 stroke design will make it. They are calling for a 40% reduction in the tier 2 amounts of NOX and CO2 and particualtes. The OTR transportion industry is having enough problems meeting the emissons with using aftertreatments that can not be jarred or shaken and also have to be changed every 60 days and it takes 6 hours to change them and this is a 400 hp movie with an EGR valve.
EMDX SD70ACE #70 has had major modifications made earlier this year with what is believed to be some type of catalatic converter or new intercooler. Photos of the unit from when it was new and when it showed up with the modifications back in April show some quite obvious differences just ahead of the prime mover and in the area of the exhaust system.
Bryan Jones
I caught this unit in new paint at St Denis Md. on 7/7/07 in paint. Look at the second pic, it appears that somebody does not know which way the 8's should go though.
Wow, I don't know what's more impressive in this thread, the bitterness or the ignorance? GE has sold a lot more units over the past 15 years, but I wouldn't call the numbers EMD has "throwing them a bone." EMD had delivery issues too.
Further, Suggesting that the 710 is just the same technology is the 567 is one of the craziest things I've ever read on the internet. The 710 is to the 567 as that Ford Mustang is to the Ford Pinto.
As was already stated, both GE and EMD had serious problems with their 6000HP Prime movers. In the end, EMD's problems were more electrical. Much like the problems the 50series had.
I don't know the future status of the H engine. I suppose if 2-stroke Diesels become to hard to make meet standards, then they'll go back to the H-Engine which was a 4 stroke, but we'll see. EMD is certainly thinking about this way more then us Shmucks on the internet.
YoHo1975 wrote: Wow, I don't know what's more impressive in this thread, the bitterness or the ignorance? GE has sold a lot more units over the past 15 years, but I wouldn't call the numbers EMD has "throwing them a bone." EMD had delivery issues too. Further, Suggesting that the 710 is just the same technology is the 567 is one of the craziest things I've ever read on the internet. The 710 is to the 567 as that Ford Mustang is to the Ford Pinto. As was already stated, both GE and EMD had serious problems with their 6000HP Prime movers. In the end, EMD's problems were more electrical. Much like the problems the 50series had. I don't know the future status of the H engine. I suppose if 2-stroke Diesels become to hard to make meet standards, then they'll go back to the H-Engine which was a 4 stroke, but we'll see. EMD is certainly thinking about this way more then us Shmucks on the internet.
Well said. I suppose the company that builds them knows what works with Tier III - they know their corporate existence depends on it.
I had read somewhere that the 16-710G3C-T2 engine far surpasses Tier II requirements, but who am I?
In the end, we will be seeing more of the 16V265H engine, perhaps a 12V265H which would be 4400HP like the GEVO.
GP40-2 wrote: Railfan1 wrote: I read a report that stated CSX was trading 75 SD40-2s for a new locomotive order and placing more of the 40-2s in storage. Is this end of an era on the CSX?(Fourth Statement down under June 23, 2007)http://www.midwestrailfan.com/MOTIVEPOWER.html Yep and good riddance. Those new GEVOs are fine running machines.
Railfan1 wrote: I read a report that stated CSX was trading 75 SD40-2s for a new locomotive order and placing more of the 40-2s in storage. Is this end of an era on the CSX?(Fourth Statement down under June 23, 2007)http://www.midwestrailfan.com/MOTIVEPOWER.html
I read a report that stated CSX was trading 75 SD40-2s for a new locomotive order and placing more of the 40-2s in storage. Is this end of an era on the CSX?
(Fourth Statement down under June 23, 2007)
http://www.midwestrailfan.com/MOTIVEPOWER.html
Yep and good riddance. Those new GEVOs are fine running machines.
But I bet you will see those in the scrap yards way before the SD40's ever were.
GP40-2 wrote: AntonioFP45 wrote: Good riddance? Why? Apparently you have never spent time on one. In notch 8. How about in notch 8 pulling tonnage up a 20 mile grade? They are loud, noisy and cramped. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. The cab leaks more air than it keeps out. They are fuel hogs compared to the GEVOs. They pollute the environment with their filthy exhaust (and you thought I wasn't a sensitive guy) Oh yea, did I mention they are loud in notch 8? AntonioFP45 wrote: I'm very glad that I got to see and appreciate these brutes in action. Compared to an C44AC or GEVO they are rather wimpy. When coupled to a C60AC they look about the size of a N guage toy.
AntonioFP45 wrote: Good riddance? Why?
Good riddance? Why?
Apparently you have never spent time on one. In notch 8. How about in notch 8 pulling tonnage up a 20 mile grade? They are loud, noisy and cramped. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. The cab leaks more air than it keeps out. They are fuel hogs compared to the GEVOs. They pollute the environment with their filthy exhaust (and you thought I wasn't a sensitive guy) Oh yea, did I mention they are loud in notch 8?
AntonioFP45 wrote: I'm very glad that I got to see and appreciate these brutes in action.
I'm very glad that I got to see and appreciate these brutes in action.
Compared to an C44AC or GEVO they are rather wimpy. When coupled to a C60AC they look about the size of a N guage toy.
Try a NW-5 in notch 8 pulling only 10 cars, then you can complain about your horrid conditions....or try worrking with a GE 44 toner with no heat/ a.c. and you can see threw the bullet hole in the window I know they are pigs to work with but so are all locomotives from 40 years ago you cant expect much from somthing that has over 2 million miles on it.
Funny, every REAL engineer I've ever talked with always speaks highly of the SD40 Family - no matter the age or condition!!!
Two relatives of mine {one retired after 40 years' engine service with Missouri Pacific / Union Pacific} say that the '40 is much like EMD's first winner, the GP7 - just an all-around GOOD design. GE has yet to build a comparable design, either in terms of durability OR reliability - emissions compliance and fast delivery simply don't compare to say a FORTY YEAR service life. EMD's first '40 is still turning in revenue miles daily for the CN {as IC #6071} - how many GE road units can say the same? {Hint: Don't ask any Amtrak engineers about their GE's, unless you've got lots of time, a strong stomach, and insensitive ears........}
One final thought - a forty-year service life also means a forty-year return on an investment, which is something the railroad "front offices" would also love!!! I've yet to hear the likes of Mr. Haverty, Mr. Donohue, or Mr. Mooman say anything bad about such an occurance!!!!
saxmusicman wrote:For the record, as a railfan and photographer, I hate the GEVOs. They are so asthetically unappealing. If you have photographed one, you have photographed them all. The SD40-2 however is a locomotive with character - second best to the SD60.
For the record, as a railfan and photographer, I hate the GEVOs. They are so asthetically unappealing. If you have photographed one, you have photographed them all. The SD40-2 however is a locomotive with character - second best to the SD60.
Funny, weren't railfans saying the same when SD40-2's were new?
First off, from any older railroader Ive ever talked to, says they dont mind the SD40-2s or even SD45s for that matter. All of the new guys are little babies when it comes to this, and If their little ears are going to hurt. As much as the new engines are nice, the SD40-2s perform. The GEVOs and ACes are solid units (moreso the GEVO from what Ive heard) but you can use an SD40-2 for anything. They load with the snap of a finger, and they are smooth riders. Ear plugs are a nice thing to have, so use them. Old units, how about the MP15ACs? I know a bunch of guys from CP who just LOVE those things, they kick cars like nothing else. The SD40-2s will be around a while yet, just in smaller numbers. Ive talked to people on CP who hate the AC44s, they are about as noisy and they rattle as much as an SD40-2. They would prefer a SOO Line SD60 any day. Its a good sign to see SD40-2s getting new paint, because the railroad wont be able to get rid of them as fast as they want. Look how long it took CN to get rid of the SD45s.
If CSX gets rid of the SD40-2s, get rid of the 80XX,81XXs first. The 83 and 84 hundreds are the best anyway.
Alec
wctransfer wrote: If CSX gets rid of the SD40-2s, get rid of the 80XX,81XXs first. The 83 and 84 hundreds are the best anyway.
How's that?
I believe those all were rebuilt a lot later in their careers than the original SD40-2s. These were all old SD40s or old SD45s. Plus, I personally think they look better, with the original SD40 frame and the Flexicoil trucks with the open wheel barrings look awesome.
According to trainorders.com, CSX is getting 125 ES44AC's. They will be numbered 700 to 825. I hope the SD40-2's don't go. I hope they trade the ex UP SD40-2's and keep the Seaboard SD40-2's keep the SBD heritage alive. But my words don't count to Micheal J. Ward. I have been hearing they don't care about their heritage.
Kevin
they might be leaving csx but the up has them working overtime. fri afternoon at lafox il on the geneva sub here was 2 old and gruby looking sd 40-2 (one only a patch job CNW colors shown thru) on the head end of a very lond bbl stack heading east. at first i thought just a bunch of single stacks but the can the rest of the train and we had 106 dbl stack containers on the back half of the train. lots to see in lafox
conrad
Say, Conrad, you get the number on the CNW patch job? I (along with several others) have been trying to keep tabs on any remaining CNW patches: http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/3um/viewtopic.php?t=673
sorry about that fuzzy I go thru lafox 4 to 5 time a week so i will keep a eye out for you
ps
these two got the job done but they sure could't handle much more..
A couple things
As for CP getting rid of their SD40-2s. They are leaving in trickles. NRE has some DM&E/IC&E does, even a few went to South America to be stretched for narrow guage.
As for SD40-2s going to museums. There is already an x-MP SD40-2 in UP paint on display at the Amtrak station in Barstow, CA. It has also been said the CN is aware of the historical signifigance of IC 6071 and will probably be donated upon retirement.
The CSX SD70MACs in the 700s and SD80MACs in the 800s are being renumbered to group all the EMD AC units in the same number series. 4500-74 for the 70s 4590-4602 for the 80's
The SD40-2s versatility is one of the biggest reasons they are still running strong. You can see them on the stack trains of UP and BNSF, they are the staple of CSX's Bone Valley operations along side x-EMDX SD70Ms (they replaced GEs), and most every NS local I have seen has x-N&W/SOU SD40-2s. UP, BNSF & IHB use them for hump power de-rated or not.
The builders don't make a medium (3000hp) locomotives. EMD/GEs are 4300-4500hp, and I have not seen a genset over 2100hp. The reason is probably the large number of reliable SD40-2s still operating on class ones, regionals, short lines and leasing companys. I stopped by VMV Paducah and there appears to be around 100 SD40-2s in storage there so there is plenty to go around.
Dan
mark
i can't get to your fuzzy world so i will get the info to you this was.
patched cnw up # 3028 east bound with another up sd-40 on a short dbl stack.
I think the SD40-2s will be around for a while. I would really like to see one of those new GEVO try and switch around here. I don't think so. (Not saying the track is bad, just saying that it would be hard) So far I've only seen CN send SD40-2s, or SD40-3s. WC SD35 2500 also switched out her for a long time. WC wouldn't even send a large locomotive like the SD45 out here. They would always send 2500. I just can't see a GEVO or even an SD70ACe switch on all the little spurs. Unless they want to upgrade allot of track.
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
Ok, I know you SD40-2 fans will love this. It isn't CSX, and wctransfer has probably seen this a couple times. But I thought this was a lucky catch. I took the pic on July 10 2007.
I also have 2 photos of pure IC SD40-2 lash ups. I got a photo of WC SD40-2 6004 leading an SD40-3. I have a photo of a GTW Grey Goast(SD40-3) leading a IC SD40-2. I have one of a WC Grey Goast (SD40-3) leading a IC SD40-2. I have picture of a IC locomotive leading a CN locomotive. I have a picture of a SD40-2 CN/GTW repaint. I have a photo of a CN/IC repaint. I also have a couple pictures of the WC Grey Goasts. (SD40-3s) I won't bother to show them here because it's not CSX. Anway I don't think the SD40-2s will gone from CN for a long time.
WCfan wrote: Ok, I know you SD40-2 fans will love this. It isn't CSX, and wctransfer has probably seen this a couple times. But I thought this was a lucky catch. I took the pic on July 10 2007.
That looks like an old CP unit.
this one was leading yesterday 8.9.07 , CSX 8888.
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