csxengineer isn't the only one with experience to write that a lot of modern stuff is crap. I find it disappointing, especially with all the modern technology, but won't argue with someone with personal experience. I only know Conrail from being my local railroad and making something out of a lot of bankrupts, but most of us admired it for what it was.
On a similar note, if the railroads that got Conrail equipment found it to be in deplorable condition, can anyone imagine what they felt like when they got all the Penn Central stuff?
Its a shame, to call Sd80mac's crap, and all conrail junk? HE is comparing it with new locomotives, you can't do that, the stuff is 10+ years older then some new fangled Sd70m-2 or ACe's.
Tjsingle
Being from the northeast, I too, am somewhat a fan of Conrail, and disappointed to see their demise, but in this case, I agree with CSXengineer98 and Oskar. Conrail served it's point and was successful for it's era. Granted, it did make toast out of alot of useful railroad trackage, such as the Erie Railroad mainline, the former Pennsylvania Railroad Columbus Line, and several more I can think of. It was still a nice railroad, all in all, for the railfans. Railroaders absolutely despised Conrail.
What CSXengineer98 is trying to say about the power being junk, is that it is torn up, and worn out inside, pretty much held together by duct tape and is very uncomfortable. He is an engineer, so he knows what it is like to operate a Conrail unit. You just see them go by. I have been in several ex Conrail units that now belong to CSX, and I too, was not overly impressed. I have never been in a C40-8W or anything like that, but have been in a ex Conrail SD40-2, GP38-2 and GP40-2, off the top of my head.
As for the quality of the locomotives, from what I hear, Conrail did not do a good job maintaining their power, and they did not stay up to par with other railroad's C40-8W's, SD60I's and such. The SD80MAC units stayed in fairly good health, as they were pretty new when Conrail was divided among NS and CSX. The C40-8W's are terrible to run for 12 hours. I have seen photos from inside them. Same applies for the ex Conrail SD60I units. What's that? Photos? Alright, here you go.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=201069&nseq=1
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=109453&nseq=5
And that is just two examples. The chair in the second photo looks *real* (un)comfortable. In the first photo, do I need to explain what the problem is? Also, notice the amount of Conrail units that shoot flames? Not good maintenance.
We are not Conrail haters. Like I explained, I am a Conrail fan myself, and do not mind seeing the CSX 7300-series and such pass by, as a railfan, but I am sure the railroaders are not too thrilled to have that power. And then to say that a one-and-only classic like CSX 4617, a straight SD40 - the first SD40 built at that - needs to be painted into CR blue, is just crazy. Do you fail to see the historic background of this unit? It needs to stay as is....
oh my god, those cabs are horrid, maybe they should get a good cleaning! jeez, talk about heavy use, I didn't know it was that bad.
tjsingle
RRKen wrote:SD40-2's are so yesterday. Glad I no longer have to deal with that junk.
Dunno about Confail, but the Crash National SD40-2's were so beat up, on more than one occasion I had hood doors fly off at track speed, they never pulled right, and the units that happened to have DB, the DB never worked. The SD40-2's sucked, give me a pair of ES44DC's anyday!
Conrail didn't "sale" their railroad. NS and CSX basically lobbied the federal goverment to take over operations of the RR.
badeffect10 wrote: Conrail didn't "sale" their railroad. NS and CSX basically lobbied the federal goverment to take over operations of the RR.
Conrail had already been privatized so it was indeed a sale. The Feds were involved for the usual antitrust reasons.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: badeffect10 wrote: Conrail didn't "sale" their railroad. NS and CSX basically lobbied the federal goverment to take over operations of the RR. Conrail had already been privatized so it was indeed a sale. The Feds were involved for the usual antitrust reasons.
I stand corrected. My Conrail history is a little fuzzy, it's been awhile since I've broken out my books. I think it was privitized in 86 or 87 and then NS and CSX bought it in the 90's.
Awesome wrote:Wake up and smell the coffee. If you are going to sale your car or house. Are you going to put money unto the place? NO! Right! Conrail did what it need to be done in order to sale their railroad.
conrail was a bare bones no frills railroad that didnt take care of anything even befor the split was a twinkel in john snows and who ever was at the helm of NS at the time.... they spent money keeping the ROW nice..but when it came to giveing the crews a somewhat clean office to work in..they dropped the ball.. when it came to giveing the crews at least a comfortable seat to sit in..nope.. even old csx units have a more confortable seat then anything conrail had or was willing to put in the cabs.. but at least they had that nice bright blue paint that looked good along the ROW...
csx engineer
trainfan1221 wrote:The simple point is, Conrail had a huge task, which not only was important to the rail scene but the economy of the Northeast in general. Every major railroad had failed, with PC proudly leading the way. If anything it illustrated the importance of railroads as it was important that something be done immediately. They did what they had to, built a substantial intermodal business, and became profitable and privatized. At the end, they seemed willing to sell off whatever they could, essentially wanted two sets of mainlines between Boston-St.Louis and New York-Chicago, essentially a giant X. I can't account for the condition of their equipment, csxengineer certainly would know better about that, but as I said we admired Conrail for what it was and what it accomplished. I guess a lot of us felt it was our railroad and that is why it is missed. They put on a good show.
That's true!!!!!! If Conrail would stay it would have fix the problems of CSX and NS.
Awesome wrote: trainfan1221 wrote:The simple point is, Conrail had a huge task, which not only was important to the rail scene but the economy of the Northeast in general. Every major railroad had failed, with PC proudly leading the way. If anything it illustrated the importance of railroads as it was important that something be done immediately. They did what they had to, built a substantial intermodal business, and became profitable and privatized. At the end, they seemed willing to sell off whatever they could, essentially wanted two sets of mainlines between Boston-St.Louis and New York-Chicago, essentially a giant X. I can't account for the condition of their equipment, csxengineer certainly would know better about that, but as I said we admired Conrail for what it was and what it accomplished. I guess a lot of us felt it was our railroad and that is why it is missed. They put on a good show.That's true!!!!!! If Conrail would stay it would have fix the problems of CSX and NS.
csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: trainfan1221 wrote:The simple point is, Conrail had a huge task, which not only was important to the rail scene but the economy of the Northeast in general. Every major railroad had failed, with PC proudly leading the way. If anything it illustrated the importance of railroads as it was important that something be done immediately. They did what they had to, built a substantial intermodal business, and became profitable and privatized. At the end, they seemed willing to sell off whatever they could, essentially wanted two sets of mainlines between Boston-St.Louis and New York-Chicago, essentially a giant X. I can't account for the condition of their equipment, csxengineer certainly would know better about that, but as I said we admired Conrail for what it was and what it accomplished. I guess a lot of us felt it was our railroad and that is why it is missed. They put on a good show.That's true!!!!!! If Conrail would stay it would have fix the problems of CSX and NS. please tell me what these problems that csx and ns have...this is the second time on this sight you have made mention of csx and ns haveing problems? i am dieing to hear them from you..do tell.......csx engineer
Since being a conrail fan, this may sound odd, what problems does NS and CSX have? I dont really know of many, there doing a pretty good job.
Tjsingle wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: trainfan1221 wrote:The simple point is, Conrail had a huge task, which not only was important to the rail scene but the economy of the Northeast in general. Every major railroad had failed, with PC proudly leading the way. If anything it illustrated the importance of railroads as it was important that something be done immediately. They did what they had to, built a substantial intermodal business, and became profitable and privatized. At the end, they seemed willing to sell off whatever they could, essentially wanted two sets of mainlines between Boston-St.Louis and New York-Chicago, essentially a giant X. I can't account for the condition of their equipment, csxengineer certainly would know better about that, but as I said we admired Conrail for what it was and what it accomplished. I guess a lot of us felt it was our railroad and that is why it is missed. They put on a good show.That's true!!!!!! If Conrail would stay it would have fix the problems of CSX and NS. please tell me what these problems that csx and ns have...this is the second time on this sight you have made mention of csx and ns haveing problems? i am dieing to hear them from you..do tell.......csx engineer Since being a conrail fan, this may sound odd, what problems does NS and CSX have? I dont really know of many, there doing a pretty good job.Tjsingle
taking over conrail made both companys stronger...at the beging of the takover yes there where major problems.. but if you look at the history of railroad take overs not every one of them has gone well.. take the UP/SP in the 90s.. was a total meltdown for UP...csx and ns had there share of issues at the day of split and for some time after..but in the end things are moving agin..and traffic is up and so are proffits.. sounds like problem solved to me...
trainfan1221 wrote:There are so few major railroads now that each one is big enough that when it gets taken over how could there not be problems? I just hope that the mergers are done for awhile, I like variety and there is less of it all the time. I know it's a sign of modern times, but a little competition never hurt either.
Awesome wrote: Conrail did what it need to be done in order to sale their railroad.
If Conrail was as great as you seem to think, Conrail would not have to do anything to "sale" the railroad.
An "expensive model collector"
The feds only held onto Conrail long enough for it to get in the black - as soon as CR started turning a profit in the early 1980s, they sold it through an IPO (Conrail was a public company at the time of the sale listed on the New York Stock Exchange). The feds were involved in the merger also because the control of a railroad has to be approved by the Surface Transportation Board as well as the DOJ premerger notification bureau/antitrust bureau. The STB has jurisdiction over rail control/ownership and enforcing common carrier obligations and thus control over mergers. The STB is very big on competition between rail/preventing rail bottlenecks where previously competitive routes get served with one railroad - they imposed numerous conditions on the CR purchase including the creation of CR shared assets areas.
BTW, I've heard (from STB practicioners) that Conrail was outstanding in at least one area - they had the best lawyers at ICC and later STB practice of any of the railroads. In the business/law area Conrail was highly regarded as having some of the best minds in the rail industry.
csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: Tjsingle wrote:jeez are all of you guys conrail haters?! seriously wth?They get bend of out shape when we talk about CONRAIL.. Can you explain to me why the hate us?no one said anything about hateing you per say... just that your fanatic defence of a railroad that you dont know much about other then reading books and watching the trains go by is a bit over the top... being a train buff you dont get to see what we that do work for the carriers see is the behind the seans and talk that goes on between crews of differnt roads... you see a nice engin or a track that looks like its in nice shape...we crews see the junk and beat up condition of the cabs and the bandaids that are put on things just to get it out of the door... its nice to be loyal to something..but some of you gonrail nuts dont know what it was like for us crews to get our hands on them bright blue engins you all hold so near and dear... the uncomfortable toad stool seats for 211 miles... blue cemical crappers that smelled and if you tried to use them turned anything that came in conact with the seat blue even if you used a "butt gasket"...the realy pain in the but radios that had the up and down rocker switches to change the radio channels insted of the keypads for push button use.. HTDs that the distance counters didnt work..even the newer power was in bad shape.. the seat arm rests where defomaed to the point that the metal suport would poke you and to prevent getting hurt on a metal bur or courner..the shop just wraped the whole arm rest in ductap... from a crew standpoint them nice blue engins are nothing but nice blue piles of junk.. that is why we "hate" conrail as you put it.. or at least why i dont care for there engins and call them junk at any chance i get.. becouse from my point of view..they are all gonrail junk and need to be gone from the csx rosters too... csx engineer
Awesome wrote: Tjsingle wrote:jeez are all of you guys conrail haters?! seriously wth?They get bend of out shape when we talk about CONRAIL.. Can you explain to me why the hate us?
Tjsingle wrote:jeez are all of you guys conrail haters?! seriously wth?
They get bend of out shape when we talk about CONRAIL.. Can you explain to me why the hate us?
The cab seats, radios and head end EOT units in locomotives rarely stay in the unit they are delivered in for much time at all. It takes about 10 minutes to change out a radio or cab seat. So, chances are the radio and EOT you are complaining about was a CSX purchase... Conrail never had toad stool seats in anything. In fact, Conrail was stuck with an old NYC crew agreement that, until their last several years, prevented them from buying the same cab seats as the other roads (Conrail needed seat cushions that were 1" wider - go figure...)
In fairness to your point, however, Conrail was behind in loco overhauls for most of their last decade - an those chemical toilets were never any fun - or fun to maintain - particularly the ones in the short hood of Dash 2s.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: Tjsingle wrote:jeez are all of you guys conrail haters?! seriously wth?They get bend of out shape when we talk about CONRAIL.. Can you explain to me why the hate us?no one said anything about hateing you per say... just that your fanatic defence of a railroad that you dont know much about other then reading books and watching the trains go by is a bit over the top... being a train buff you dont get to see what we that do work for the carriers see is the behind the seans and talk that goes on between crews of differnt roads... you see a nice engin or a track that looks like its in nice shape...we crews see the junk and beat up condition of the cabs and the bandaids that are put on things just to get it out of the door... its nice to be loyal to something..but some of you gonrail nuts dont know what it was like for us crews to get our hands on them bright blue engins you all hold so near and dear... the uncomfortable toad stool seats for 211 miles... blue cemical crappers that smelled and if you tried to use them turned anything that came in conact with the seat blue even if you used a "butt gasket"...the realy pain in the but radios that had the up and down rocker switches to change the radio channels insted of the keypads for push button use.. HTDs that the distance counters didnt work..even the newer power was in bad shape.. the seat arm rests where defomaed to the point that the metal suport would poke you and to prevent getting hurt on a metal bur or courner..the shop just wraped the whole arm rest in ductap... from a crew standpoint them nice blue engins are nothing but nice blue piles of junk.. that is why we "hate" conrail as you put it.. or at least why i dont care for there engins and call them junk at any chance i get.. becouse from my point of view..they are all gonrail junk and need to be gone from the csx rosters too... csx engineer The cab seats, radios and head end EOT units in locomotives rarely stay in the unit they are delivered in for much time at all. It takes about 10 minutes to change out a radio or cab seat. So, chances are the radio and EOT you are complaining about was a CSX purchase... Conrail never had toad stool seats in anything. In fact, Conrail was stuck with an old NYC crew agreement that, until their last several years, prevented them from buying the same cab seats as the other roads (Conrail needed seat cushions that were 1" wider - go figure...)In fairness to your point, however, Conrail was behind in loco overhauls for most of their last decade - an those chemical toilets were never any fun - or fun to maintain - particularly the ones in the short hood of Dash 2s.
csxengineer98 wrote: oskar wrote: That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone. Kevinamen to that.. all the Gonrail stuff that came to csx as far as power has all been beat to hell and back and was falling apart junk.. i thought csx did a poor job of maintaing its equipment.. my oppionion changed when i got into the cab of my first gonrail units left in my charge.. they where beat and worn out worse then anything csx had... always had issues with them too.. never knew of you where going to get over the road or break down with Gonrail power...csx engineer
oskar wrote: That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone. Kevin
That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone.
Kevin
Conrail locomotives you rode where the old GP35, SD40, U-Boats..
Awesome wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: oskar wrote: That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone. Kevinamen to that.. all the Gonrail stuff that came to csx as far as power has all been beat to hell and back and was falling apart junk.. i thought csx did a poor job of maintaing its equipment.. my oppionion changed when i got into the cab of my first gonrail units left in my charge.. they where beat and worn out worse then anything csx had... always had issues with them too.. never knew of you where going to get over the road or break down with Gonrail power...csx engineer Conrail locomotives you rode where the old GP35, SD40, U-Boats..
Been hearing some bad news. I have overheard that CSX 4617 has been painted into YN3 paint. Anyone else heard the same news?
........it was just a matter of time.
csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: oskar wrote: That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone. Kevinamen to that.. all the Gonrail stuff that came to csx as far as power has all been beat to hell and back and was falling apart junk.. i thought csx did a poor job of maintaing its equipment.. my oppionion changed when i got into the cab of my first gonrail units left in my charge.. they where beat and worn out worse then anything csx had... always had issues with them too.. never knew of you where going to get over the road or break down with Gonrail power...csx engineer Conrail locomotives you rode where the old GP35, SD40, U-Boats..exactly how do you know what i ran and didnt run.. yes some where sd40s..some where gp 40s.. as well as models from the rest of the fleet.. all the way up to the 80macs..and they where all beat up junk... csx engineer
In the past forum you have told us the locomotives you rode.
Awesome wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: Awesome wrote: csxengineer98 wrote: oskar wrote: That will hopefully never happen. That SD40 is probably better than any Confails on CSX roster. Glad Conrail is gone. Kevinamen to that.. all the Gonrail stuff that came to csx as far as power has all been beat to hell and back and was falling apart junk.. i thought csx did a poor job of maintaing its equipment.. my oppionion changed when i got into the cab of my first gonrail units left in my charge.. they where beat and worn out worse then anything csx had... always had issues with them too.. never knew of you where going to get over the road or break down with Gonrail power...csx engineer Conrail locomotives you rode where the old GP35, SD40, U-Boats..exactly how do you know what i ran and didnt run.. yes some where sd40s..some where gp 40s.. as well as models from the rest of the fleet.. all the way up to the 80macs..and they where all beat up junk... csx engineer In the past forum you have told us the locomotives you rode.
some of the statements you have made to me regarding this issue show that you have no intrest in learning anything new or taking pro- railroaders insight regarding the state of conrails equipment.. it just shows the narrow mindedness of some railfans and why some rails have a bad additued about rail fans as a whole... some of us come here to share our personal experinces in the day to day opporations and to help awnser questions that some people have about the industry on any wide range of topics.. yet you personaly want to challange anything that anyone has to say about some topics even thow many others beside myself have tried to show you other side of the coin.. its one thing to hold on to a part of your past..and have "brand loyalty" but its another when you try to spout off facts that have been proven wrong by other people that are more in the know then you are...
from this point on.. unless you are willing to actuly learn and take part in conversations with a bit more of an open mind and not bash people in the know such as myself and question my credibilty and my quilfications to add input to conversations.. i wil no longer be responding to you... i bid you good day...
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