Was her streamlined nose cowling ever repaired? Seems like I heard it was cracked 10-15 years ago.
I'm an optimist. I think the only shocking ultrasound revelation concerning 611 would be the old gal's pregnant!
S. ConnorAnyway, this is a subject that will require further analysis.
Let's give it some. The quoted 100 mph is 146'8" per second. Divide by the driver diameter, 18'4". That's as close to 8 revolutions per second as makes no nevermind. Or, just the 1/8 second being mentioned.
From a standpoint of AAR max rpm (504), I get 154ft/sec, which is 105 mph.
The original film movies were probably shot at 24 frames per second, and you will have to check what method was used (probably 3:2 pulldown) to get them converted to video. Reverse that to get the 'actual speed' for analysis. Interlaced TV is very close to 1/60 sec (1:59.94) for each HALF frame ... note that it is probably possible to observe rod position from a half an interlaced frame, so single-stepping through with a video editor ought to get you in the ballpark PDQ. The 'rendered' frames from, say, VCR slo-mo might resolve down to 1/30 sec per frame, so if you have the ability to single-step frames (many older VCR remotes had that control) it should be possible to get the blurred image in the two half-frames, with the actual rod position taken as the 'average' -- might need more than one revolution's worth of frames to get matching position for best accuracy, or do a little extrapolation...
friend611I would have to work from excursion era videos, as much 1950's footage is not available to me. I have seen one segment of film from 1959, where the 611 is being chased at close to 100 miles an hour between Petersburg and Suffolk. As I saw, the drivers are going so fast that tracking individual revolutions is almost impossible. I would estimate less than 1/4 second per driver revolution, even down to 1/8 or 1/16 second if necessary. I have seen fast footage in excursion service, especially one run on the Nickel Plate west to Fort Wayne in 1983. On this run, the video producer estimated the speed at over 75 miles an hour, but I recall the driver revolution time at around 3/4 to 1 second. The speed was not constant during the run, as the engine would slow down and then speed up again. Anyway, this is a subject that will require further analysis. Reference if you want to estimate driver speed on runs: 1959 run: Pocahontas Glory Volume 5, Herron Rail. 1983 run: Queen of the Fleet, Hopewell Productions. lois
That's crazy fast. I feel like I shouldn't be surprised but I am. So much harder than I thought it would be!
THEY DID NOT BOTHER TO PUT THE MAIN RODS BACK ON FOR DISPLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Using more of pi than just 3.14 gives you a more precise answer. I got about 18.325 feet for the circumference of 611's drivers. Close enough.(Using the first 9 digits of pi)
By the way, your link is not to 611 footage.
I need driver rotation time of 611 going fast. Really fast. "Friend611" is apparently working on this, from a 1959(?) shot of 611 running.
As a quick start to the calculations:
1 revolution at nominal driver diameter = just about 18'4"
Now see the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNPjx8bRZI8 (from which the speed can be eyeballed as a general check); I'd have said around 30 mph.
As a 'check' on all of you with h/m/s stopwatches, I measure 10 revolutions in just over .07 min (my stopwatch is decimal minutes) which translates to (almost exactly) 2619 fpm. Applying the conversion factor to mph gives about 29.75 mph, which I think is well within 'experimental error'!
Someone who can single-step through video frames will be able to determine more precisely a time per revolution, which in conjunction with the above circumference will give a more accurate answer. But here's a first cut.
friend611The N&W dynamometer car is at the Virginia Museum of Transportation, though I doubt that it is operational. lois
We have one here at St. Louis, I don't think it is operational, but it is in very good condition and under cover.
GP40-2 friend611That is why it is best that the locomotives are tested, and not rely on mechanical data. The data that exists on the J is mostly estimates by the N&W mechanical engineers, and regarding the 611's performance history, I have to wonder if even these numbers need to be revised. Any locomotive who can easily run 29 passenger cars on an upgrade is worthy of more respectable numbers. I wonder if any consideration has ever been made regarding testing 611 to see what she could truly do. lois It would be not only all the 4-8-4s in question would have to be tested, but the testing would have to be standardized. What are we testing for? Power at economical operation or maximum power that is uneconomical to sustain? At what speed are we concerned about? How about the power curve itself? Are we looking for a locomotive that has a peaked curve,or a locomotive that might not have as high peak power, but can sustain power over a broad speed range? If the locomotive is coal fired, shouldn't the coal be the same? What happens if we take a J and fire it with western coal? Think the power output will be the same? Conversely, what happens if we take a western locomotive and use high grade eastern coal? What about the operators? Steam locomotives are very dependent on how well the engineer and fireman work together. How do we assure each locomotive is operated at its best? Even after doing all that, you may still not know which is the "best". Steam locomotives were not only custom designed for each railroad, but they were custom designed for specific divisions on that railroad. A locomotive that scores high in general testing might not work as good as expected if placed on a division with different operational needs. I don't know if we can ever compare steam locomotives like we can compare an ES44AC to an SD40-2. Every ES44AC made is basically the same. It works the same on NS and CSX in the east as it does on UP and BNSF in the west. The same can not be said of steam locomotives.
friend611That is why it is best that the locomotives are tested, and not rely on mechanical data. The data that exists on the J is mostly estimates by the N&W mechanical engineers, and regarding the 611's performance history, I have to wonder if even these numbers need to be revised. Any locomotive who can easily run 29 passenger cars on an upgrade is worthy of more respectable numbers. I wonder if any consideration has ever been made regarding testing 611 to see what she could truly do. lois
It would be not only all the 4-8-4s in question would have to be tested, but the testing would have to be standardized. What are we testing for? Power at economical operation or maximum power that is uneconomical to sustain? At what speed are we concerned about? How about the power curve itself? Are we looking for a locomotive that has a peaked curve,or a locomotive that might not have as high peak power, but can sustain power over a broad speed range? If the locomotive is coal fired, shouldn't the coal be the same? What happens if we take a J and fire it with western coal? Think the power output will be the same? Conversely, what happens if we take a western locomotive and use high grade eastern coal? What about the operators? Steam locomotives are very dependent on how well the engineer and fireman work together. How do we assure each locomotive is operated at its best? Even after doing all that, you may still not know which is the "best". Steam locomotives were not only custom designed for each railroad, but they were custom designed for specific divisions on that railroad. A locomotive that scores high in general testing might not work as good as expected if placed on a division with different operational needs. I don't know if we can ever compare steam locomotives like we can compare an ES44AC to an SD40-2. Every ES44AC made is basically the same. It works the same on NS and CSX in the east as it does on UP and BNSF in the west. The same can not be said of steam locomotives.
Why isn't there a "like" button?
I don't have this video, but if you slow it down, and measure the amount of time for 1 driver to make a complete rotation, find the circumference of the wheel, and do some multiplying, you could measure how fast 611 was going.
If you can tell me how long it took one of the drivers to go around, I can do the math and report back with 611's speed.
Hope this helps!
S. Connor
I think the head guy is pretty busy and needs to get things done when he has the time available is all.
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May make access to other areas a lot easier.
Lois,They are only taking the main rod and eccentric rod off. They did that yesterday. Lesser work is being done today in order to get ready for the move.
friend611From what I have heard, the rods were painted several years ago, and the paint will have to be stripped off the rods before anything is done.
Lois,I was down at VMT today and the rods definitely are painted. However, I don't think they ran this way in service.
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