Just thought I'd pass this one along,with NO JUDGEMENT!!
NEW YORK (AP) - A 13-year-old boy had just finished painting graffiti near railroad tracks he was struck and killed by a commuter train, authorities and friends said Saturday.
A Long Island Rail Road train hit Ari Kraft between stations in Queens during the evening rush hour Friday, police said. The city's medical examiner said he died of "blunt impact injuries to the head, torso and extremities."
The teen and three pals had been painting on the elevated tracks near a station, his friends said. As he crossed the tracks to head home, the train, carrying about 1,000 people, slammed into him. Train service was suspended for hours.
Friends said he often created large murals with inscriptions like "Remember 9/11" - under the tag name "Corporal."
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
No comment...
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
ericsp wrote:If he had not been committing a crime he would still be alive.
Maybe, but painting a mural shouldn't be a crime. In L.A., the local council let some of these graffitti artists satisfy their need to paint by creating murals. Some are in underpasses, some are close to the tracks so train passengers can see. These murals are not ugly---they really are impressive. It's the gang graffiti artists that I can't stand.
Reno Sparky wrote: ericsp wrote:If he had not been committing a crime he would still be alive.Maybe, but painting a mural shouldn't be a crime. In L.A., the local council let some of these graffitti artists satisfy their need to paint by creating murals. Some are in underpasses, some are close to the tracks so train passengers can see. These murals are not ugly---they really are impressive. It's the gang graffiti artists that I can't stand.
Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?
Maybe I'm just biased. I used to spend a lot of volunteer time working with teens in trouble.
I do feel sorry for the boy. Under other circumstances, maybe someone could have helped him straighten his life out. Maybe an understanding railfan could have noticed his activities and befriended him - helping him redirect his talents in other directions.
My heart also goes out to his family and friends.
If it is not your property and you do not have permission it should be, and is, a crime to paint a mural.
Datafever wrote: Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?
Death sentence? Who sentenced him to death? He did by being stupid. No court did, nobody but himself sentenced him to death.
ericsp wrote: Datafever wrote: Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?Death sentence? Who sentenced him to death? He did by being stupid. No court did, nobody but himself sentenced him to death.
Did I say tough? Maybe inhumane would be a better word.
Datafever wrote: ericsp wrote: Datafever wrote: Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?Death sentence? Who sentenced him to death? He did by being stupid. No court did, nobody but himself sentenced him to death.Did I say tough? Maybe inhumane would be a better word.
That is ridiculous. Did I say he should have been killed? No. It is a shame he chose that life style and it cost him his life. But, the blame for this rests solely on him. If there was a "death sentance" he is the one that pronounced it. What exactly is inhumane?
ericsp wrote: Datafever wrote: ericsp wrote: Datafever wrote: Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?Death sentence? Who sentenced him to death? He did by being stupid. No court did, nobody but himself sentenced him to death.Did I say tough? Maybe inhumane would be a better word. That is ridiculous. Did I say he should have been killed? No. It is a shame he chose that life style and it cost him his life. But, the blame for this rests solely on him. If there was a "death sentance" he is the one that pronounced it. What exactly is inhumane?
Very well said.
It is unfortunate that the boy's actions resulted in his death, but finally he is responsible for his own choice to do what he did. There is a reason why trespassing is bad. It isn't because RR's are trying to cramp artistic impression, but rather because they are trying to run a railroad safely.
I contrast this with the recent threads regarding railroad workers killed on the job. Railroad workers get the benefit of the doubt and every excuse under the sun why they made a mistake, even as trained professionals on the job.
Young people don't get that benefit here.
Even though lacking judgment is one of the reasons we call them young people.
A 13 year old boy made a mistake, did something stupid, and paid for it with his life. Most of you were lucky when you did your stupid stuff. He wasn't.
Godspeed to him and prayers to his devastated family.
A reason I don't have any kinship with railfans is the sanctity they place on railroad equipment. A 13 year old boy dies, and the railfans side with the box car he was spray-painting.
Some time ago I was involved in a program for youth from tough neighborhoods. I got to know some kids from Compton, CA, very well who had been involved in things far more serious than playing with spray paint. I have to admit, what shocked me after I got there was the realization that they were just people like me; fundamentally kind, good, intelligent, humane people - maybe moreso than the jerks I knew in college.
I rode an open box car cross country when I was 18. I suppose if I had died the railfans would have said, "he deserved it - the criminal."
Everyone deserves a chance. No one at the age of 13 deserves to die.
Hi all,
As i am in the field of law enforcement, this issue is close to my heart as a railfan and an officer..
It's not that we don't place a higher value on the boxcar, but the laws are in place to keep this "poor 13-year old" kid (a.k.a. moron) alive. If you aren't supposed to be in a place, there is probably a good reason for it. As far as railroad employees getting killed on the job...yes they make mistakes, and sometimes die for it. But they were supposed to be there in the first place!!!!
I'm sick and tired of this countrys lack of responsibility for one's own actions. I see time and time again in the courts where we charge people for SERIOUS crimes, and it is ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSE"S FAULT. Bulls*&$!!!
If there aren't neon signs and landmines, and god only knows what else to prevent tresspassing, people still do it. And even if on your PRIVATE property you placed these things, and still someone entered and got hurt while trying to get around your preventive measures, that is your fault too!
Look at the news wire with the lawsuit filed against Amtrak. The lady pushed her car through the lowered gates, and the family is suing because they say the crossing shouldn't be there!!!! Unreal!!!!
And comments about being insensitive...why should we feel bad about a kid who paid the price for his stupidity. Why has it almost become a requirement to be politically correct about every facet of everyone else's actions? Sensitive.....Please....It's like fighting a war, but trying not to kill anybody who's shooting at you....
I realize I'm ranting a little bit here, and I apologize. A twelve hour shift will do that to you.
But enough is enough. People choose their own destiny, and if things go bad while doing stuff they know is wrong....TOO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marc
You know, it sucks that the kid had to die.
I don't sanctify railroad property, and I am not one who believes that everything the railroad does is right and proper. That being said.... the kids that were out doing the grafitti were doing something they weren't supposed to.... In some ways it is no different from the criminal who gets injured or killed while breaking into someone's house.
Breaking the law, no matter what law, has consequences, playing, or doing anything irresponsible near the railroad tracks has consequences also. Add to that, making stupid choices has it's own set of consequences also.
"Stupid"... that's a word that gets bandied about here quite often especially in threads like this. Now, I know we all do things that are less than bright some days, you know, locking keys in the car, forgetting important stuff as we leave the house, forgetting to check the toaster oven and filling the apartment with smoke.... You know, that's not stupid, I learned from my jobs as a 9-1-1 operator, that "stupid" has a whole different definition. To me, from what I have had to deal with, "stupid" reflects a complete lack of any type of logical mental process, in other words, thinking is arrested, and pushed out of the mind, something done not quite on impulse, but with a complete lack of comprehension of any and all results they may come from said action. There is an air of cluelessness that is hard to describe. That holds true for anyone, I have seen stupidity, of all kinds, displayed by people of all stripes. I learned a long time ago that "The same types of people live on both sides of the tracks." And it is very, very true.
MichaelSol wrote: Datafever wrote: ericsp wrote: Datafever wrote: Wow. This is really a tough crowd. Doesn't anyone think that a death sentence is a stiff penalty to pay for trespassing?Death sentence? Who sentenced him to death? He did by being stupid. No court did, nobody but himself sentenced him to death.Did I say tough? Maybe inhumane would be a better word. I contrast this with the recent threads regarding railroad workers killed on the job. Railroad workers get the benefit of the doubt and every excuse under the sun why they made a mistake, even as trained professionals on the job.Young people don't get that benefit here.Even though lacking judgment is one of the reasons we call them young people.A 13 year old boy made a mistake, did something stupid, and paid for it with his life. Most of you were lucky when you did your stupid stuff. He wasn't.Godspeed to him and prayers to his devastated family.
So now this is where the stereotype that all teens are trouble makers comes in. Because there are just a few bad apples in the barrel, everyone decides to stereotype and say that we all "lack judgement" and are troublemakers, etc, etc.
Take the grandmother who got herself and her two grandchildren stuck on the railroad tracks. Obviously, she is not a young person and she herself was lacking judgement. It's not just us young people, I do believe it's everyone.
http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=1324
And while I think that saying that this boy deserved to get killed is going a bit too far, it is his own fault because he knew the risks, but did it anyway. I think part of this also hinges on the parents. The parents should bring their kids up the right way, they should pound discipline and the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong into their kids' heads. My parents did just that with me and that is why I'm the decent person that I am, who tries to stay out of trouble and doesn't go out on the train tracks to paint graffiti on railroad cars.
Willy
thats like the car that goes around the warning gates at crossing and gets clobbered by a train,
they did not STOP LOOK LISTEN.......LIVE!!!
to keep illegal mexicans and terrorists from coming into usa we have fences to keep em out, rails need more fences,police,decting devices,dogs to do the same
Bottom line, when you play with fire, YOU WILL GET BURNED!
CaptainChuck wrote:Besides a crime being commited, you also have to think of the COMMON SENSE part of it. He was no doubt familiar with Railroads and has seen has fast they go and how frequently they go through. He was most likely aware that a train could come out at any moment, but chose to do so anyways.
Maybe the kid just had "faulty intelligence"?
That's the current "get out of jail free, screw everything up and dodge the blame" cure all excuse these days isn't it?
JUst a few details.
"We were doing graffiti, and when I turned around, he was gone," one of the pals told Diana Samudio, 14, who said she rushed to the scene after hearing "an explosion."
"He was a good kid," said Diana, who also identified herself as a graffiti artist. "He did some really nice pieces. He was very talented. He died doing what he liked."
The boy and his friends had been tagging signal boxes alongside the tracks and taking pictures of their work before the accident, law enforcement sources said.
Ari, who was behind his buddies, had made it across two sets of tracks, then beat out an oncoming train on a third track, sources said. He thought he was in the clear, but that train had blocked Ari's view of the eastbound train on the last track, a police source said. A heavy fog made visibility poor at the time.
Sources said the boy's mother, Yaffa Simantov, an Israeli immigrant who is divorced from Ari's dad, rushed to the horrific scene and, overcome with shock and grief, later fainted at the 112th Precinct stationhouse.
CONSEQUENCES!
Instant replay of what happened near Burbank/Gemco 15 years ago.
ericsp et. al.: I'd dearly love to have the names and addresses of the LA politicians (boobs) who encouraged "art & murals" on any available walls. I want to go to their residences and tag the living daylights out of their houses, cars, sidewalks etc. and then have their vaunted LA Street Sweeping/lot Cleaning offices fine them and them put them on notice to clean up or face an even bigger fine. The police need to tell them that this isn't a problem and they won't go after the vandals (in this case me as I'm laughing at 'em!)....This was LA in the 1990's and I understand it has hardly improved today. The LA roadmaster is still spending in the high six-figures in removing garbage and grafitti dumped on just one railroad by some of LA's fine citizens (VSmith excluded....That garbage included boats(!), cars, hazmat, travel trailers and lots of stuff you don't want to hear about.) The structures department repainted umpteen structures at a similar cost each year.
I just wish they'd stop using the word "artist" in concert with the word "graffiti".
It just sorta glorifies this type of criminal activity.
spokyone wrote: Sources said the boy's mother, Yaffa Simantov, an Israeli immigrant who is divorced from Ari's dad, rushed to the horrific scene and, overcome with shock and grief, later fainted at the 112th Precinct stationhouse.
I regret the 13 year old was killed - that's far too young to die doing anything. And I know the loss of her child has to tear the heart out of his mother -- she deserves comfort and sympathy in her time of loss -- but didn't your mother teach you not to play on the railroad tracks?
greyhounds wrote:I regret the 13 year old was killed - that's far too young to die doing anything. And I know the loss of her child has to tear the heart out of his mother -- she deserves comfort and sympathy in her time of loss -- but didn't your mother teach you not to play on the railroad tracks?
Dan
Have fun with your trains
As an Amtrak police officer, I have dealt with this type of situation for the last 3 years. Intresting enough when you do issue citations for trespassing or throwing rocks at trains, the parents female dog that what the kids do is what kids do and even go to court with that mentality.
The mother has already decided to sue the New York MTA, LIRR and NYC for not making the tracks inaccessible. Although Ive heard the other juveniles who were with the young man may still be issued citations for the trespass.
Goober wrote:In my opinion some of the comments have been insensitive to the boy and his family, however, your comment on the "kinship with railfans" is equally insensitive. No one said he "deserved" to die.
I accept your criticism. I recast other posters' comments too harshly and I shouldn't have. Thanks.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.