Train show in Jacksonville, Florida yesterday (2/24/07). Picked up a copy of "Illinois Central Pullmans and Parlor Cars" published by the Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis Historical and Technical Society, Inc. - Summer 2006 - Issue 66. Has a bunch of information and pictures that wolud answer some of your questions.
Mel Hazen
Jacksonville, Florida
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL Ride Amtrak. It's the only way to fly!!!
Chuck,
Yes the IC did at one time run a smooth sided, lightweight dome car in the City of Miami consist. I believe this started in the late 1950's and was (at least initially) operated only during the mid-fall to mid-spring time frame. The cars were leased from the Northern Pacific where they operated on the North Coast Limited during the summer months when the NCL ridership was at its peak. There would have been three of these cars, one for each of the CM's three trainsets. The IC would paint these cars in their chocolate brown, orange and yellow colors to match the rest of the CM's cars. At the beginning of the summer or late spring the cars would be repainted back to their original colors and returned to the NP for service in the NCL. Perhaps someone else will provide the years when this practice began and ended.
I was not aware that dome cars were run in the consists of either the City of New Orleans or the Panama Limited. I'm not saying they didn't at some time, just that I am not knowledgable as to their operation. My guess would be that if the IC did acquire four corrugated Budd domes in 1967 they were used year round on the CM and not the CNO. Well before 1967 the CM became an every second day train (it was formerly every third day) and four domes would have been required for that schedule.
Mark
jeaton wrote: ed Sorry, I wasn't tracking too well on this, but appreciate your post on the 1971 trains. I worked on the IC's suburban line until sometime in 1962. Up to that time and for a few more years, Wayne Johnston, the long time president of the IC, was still firmly in control of the railroad. In the late 40's and early 50's, Johnston had the view that a well run railroad passenger service could compete with auto and air for passengers of all types-business, vacation, etc. Of course, the the introduction of jets and the building of the Interstate Highway system in the 1960's put an end to that. As an aside for those here a little younger, from the time of the opening of the Interstates in the 1960's to the Arab oil boycott in October of 1973, posted speeds on the highways were typically 75mph and even "reasonable and proper" in many of the wide open western states. (That's how fast can this sucker go.) If you weren't worried about dropping $25-50 for the occasional speeding ticket, you could put the pedal to the metal and leave it there for the whole trip. As for flying, if you were in airport parking 20 minutes before flight time, you could probably make the flight without busting a hump. Coach seats had space for the tall and the heavy, and if the flight was over a meal period, there would be a small, but reasonably tasty meal. Is there any wonder that people left the trains? I don't know where Johnston was at on the issue of passenger trains in the period from 1963 on to his retirement. Bill Johnson took over the presidency of the IC and IC Industries in 1966, and I believe it was Johnson that hired Paul Reistrup to head up the passenger operations. Reistrup had taken the B&O through train-offs, and it is generally accepted that his job on the IC was to get the poorest performers taken out. By the time I went to work in the Marketing Department, Reistrup had been moved over to head up the development of the Intermodal Department. In addition to the north/south trains noted in ed's post, I think the IC was still running at least one St Louis and one Iowa Train at that time.
ed
Sorry, I wasn't tracking too well on this, but appreciate your post on the 1971 trains.
I worked on the IC's suburban line until sometime in 1962. Up to that time and for a few more years, Wayne Johnston, the long time president of the IC, was still firmly in control of the railroad. In the late 40's and early 50's, Johnston had the view that a well run railroad passenger service could compete with auto and air for passengers of all types-business, vacation, etc. Of course, the the introduction of jets and the building of the Interstate Highway system in the 1960's put an end to that.
As an aside for those here a little younger, from the time of the opening of the Interstates in the 1960's to the Arab oil boycott in October of 1973, posted speeds on the highways were typically 75mph and even "reasonable and proper" in many of the wide open western states. (That's how fast can this sucker go.) If you weren't worried about dropping $25-50 for the occasional speeding ticket, you could put the pedal to the metal and leave it there for the whole trip. As for flying, if you were in airport parking 20 minutes before flight time, you could probably make the flight without busting a hump. Coach seats had space for the tall and the heavy, and if the flight was over a meal period, there would be a small, but reasonably tasty meal. Is there any wonder that people left the trains?
I don't know where Johnston was at on the issue of passenger trains in the period from 1963 on to his retirement. Bill Johnson took over the presidency of the IC and IC Industries in 1966, and I believe it was Johnson that hired Paul Reistrup to head up the passenger operations. Reistrup had taken the B&O through train-offs, and it is generally accepted that his job on the IC was to get the poorest performers taken out. By the time I went to work in the Marketing Department, Reistrup had been moved over to head up the development of the Intermodal Department.
In addition to the north/south trains noted in ed's post, I think the IC was still running at least one St Louis and one Iowa Train at that time.
Wayne Johnston was a dyed in the wool railroad man who believed in passenger service and saw to it IC trains lived up to his expectations until the very last day of his presidency. I recall hearing that he got a report on his desk every morning listing any passenger train that arrived late the prior day as well as the hot shot freights such as MS-1. The Hawkeye or Seminole could probably be 15 minutes late without repercussion but the Superintendant of the Division that caused a delay of the City of NO, The Panama Limited or the City of Miami could expect a personal phone call and better have an acceptable explanation (such as grade crossing accident, unavoidable mechanical breakdown, etc,) ready for the big guy.
I have posted this previously but will repeat it here to punctuate my respect for Wayne Johnston. As a boy of 12 or 13 I wrote a letter addressed only to the Illinois Central Railroad, Central Station, Chicago, Ill. requesting a copy of an Illinois Division Employee Timetable. Less than a week later I got a personal letter from Mr. Johnston stating that EET's were available only to railroad employees but if I'd arrange to meet him at his home he'd be glad to show one to me and explain the information it contained. He lived in Flossmoor and had noted that my address was in the adjancent town, Homewood. Well I called Mr. Johnston, arranged a time to meet with him and bicycled to his home at the appointed hour on a Saturday afternoon. He was a gracious host and we talked railroading for 2-1/2 hours. A the end of our visit he told me to drop him a line when I finished high school or college if I wanted a job with the IC. Almost unbelievable but true that the President of a major railroad would give that much of his leisure time to a pre-teenage kid who was interested in trains. Sadly, I don't think they make corporation presidents like him any more.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
KCSfan wrote: Info from 1954 Official Guide. CITY of NO - All coach train - Lv Chi 7:50am - Ar NO 12:15am (15min past midnight) - 921 miles - Ave speed 56mph - 22 intermediate stops - Car switching at both Carbondale & Memphis Consist - Coaches Chi-NO, Coaches St.L-NO (in No.'s 201 & 202 Carbondale St.L), Diner Chi-NO (sometimes two depending on passenger load), Tavern/Lounge/Obs Chi-NO PANAMA LIMITED - All Pullman train - Lv Chi 5:00pm - Ar NO 9:30am - Ave speed 56mph - 17 intermediate stops - Car switching at Carbondale, Memphis & Jackson Consist - Slpr Chi-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 5 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (11 Dbr), Slpr Chi-NO (DR, 4 Comp, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr/Obs Chi-NO (DBr, DR, Comp), Slpr* St.L-NO (10 Rmt, 6 DBr), Slpr* St.L-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-Jackson, MS (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr Mem-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Parlor Car Chi-Carbondale, Parlor Car Mem-NO, Twin Unit Diner Chi-NO, Buffet/Lounge* StL-NO *Carried in No's 205 & 16 Carbondale-St.L Other Lightweight IC Streamliners at the time were: The City of Miami - Chi & St.L - Florida (every 3rd Day) The Daylight & The Green Diamond Chi-StL, The Land o'Corn Chi-Waterloo, IA Heavyweight Named Trains Were: The Louisiane Chi-NO, The Southern Express Chi-NO, The Creole NO-Chi, The Chickasaw StL-Mem, The Seminole Chi-Jacksonville, The Night Diamond, Chi-StL, The Hawkeye, Chi-Sioux City, The Irwin S. Cobb, Louisville-Fulton, The Delta Express Mem-Greenville, The Southwestern/Northeastern Limited Shreveport-Meridian Additionally 5 Big Four (NYC) Chi-Cincy passenger trains including the streamlined James Whitcomb Riley were operated by the IC between Chi-Kankakee (54 miles) Mark
Info from 1954 Official Guide.
CITY of NO - All coach train - Lv Chi 7:50am - Ar NO 12:15am (15min past midnight) - 921 miles - Ave speed 56mph - 22 intermediate stops - Car switching at both Carbondale & Memphis
Consist - Coaches Chi-NO, Coaches St.L-NO (in No.'s 201 & 202 Carbondale St.L), Diner Chi-NO (sometimes two depending on passenger load), Tavern/Lounge/Obs Chi-NO
PANAMA LIMITED - All Pullman train - Lv Chi 5:00pm - Ar NO 9:30am - Ave speed 56mph - 17 intermediate stops - Car switching at Carbondale, Memphis & Jackson
Consist - Slpr Chi-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 5 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (11 Dbr), Slpr Chi-NO (DR, 4 Comp, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-NO (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr/Obs Chi-NO (DBr, DR, Comp), Slpr* St.L-NO (10 Rmt, 6 DBr), Slpr* St.L-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Slpr Chi-Jackson, MS (10 Rmt, 6DBr), Slpr Mem-NO (6 Sec, 6 Rmt, 4 DBr), Parlor Car Chi-Carbondale, Parlor Car Mem-NO, Twin Unit Diner Chi-NO, Buffet/Lounge* StL-NO
*Carried in No's 205 & 16 Carbondale-St.L
Other Lightweight IC Streamliners at the time were: The City of Miami - Chi & St.L - Florida (every 3rd Day) The Daylight & The Green Diamond Chi-StL, The Land o'Corn Chi-Waterloo, IA
Heavyweight Named Trains Were: The Louisiane Chi-NO, The Southern Express Chi-NO, The Creole NO-Chi, The Chickasaw StL-Mem, The Seminole Chi-Jacksonville, The Night Diamond, Chi-StL, The Hawkeye, Chi-Sioux City, The Irwin S. Cobb, Louisville-Fulton, The Delta Express Mem-Greenville, The Southwestern/Northeastern Limited Shreveport-Meridian
Additionally 5 Big Four (NYC) Chi-Cincy passenger trains including the streamlined James Whitcomb Riley were operated by the IC between Chi-Kankakee (54 miles)
I think these trains all kept running into the early 60's, but the IC's "train off" effort got going about that time. I was working for the IC on Amtrak startup day, and I think by that time all that was left was the Panama, City of New Orleans, a day train to St Louis and maybe the every third day City of Miami. I don't have a 1970-71 Railway Guide, so that is from a fading memory.
Interesting to me about the running times for the Panama and CNO. The average of 56mph might less than most would have thought. Once past the 65mph limit on the 30 mile Chicago Terminal, limits were 79mph to Champaign, then 99mph to DuQuoin. Due to curves and grades between Carbondale and Cairo, some limits were lower, but I think the 79 mph limit prevailed south of the Ohio River.
So the total time for the Panama-Chicago to NOLA was 16.5 hours. Take out the hour slop in the schedule and the current running time for Amtrak's City of New Orleans is 18.5 hours. Not great, but not bad given the single tracking of the Illinois mileage and the drop in the speed limit south of Champaign.
Like most of the other LD trains, don't think there are many that are going to skip driving or flying to ride the City.
greyhounds wrote: daveklepper wrote: Is it possible that the City of NO was dropped and then restored because of protests? Or did I encounter something unusual and what was it? I don't think so. I went to school in Champaign during the transistion to Amtrak. I don't recall the CNO being a "train off". I remember it rolling south of Champaign with an A-B-B E unit lash up. Sure was pretty. I also remember the IC's first intermodal trains behind those E's. An equally pleasing site. The first Amtrak passenger fatalities came on the CNO. IIRC it was just a few days after Amtrak took over and the CNO was getting up near the century mark south of Champaign when an axle locked up on one of the E's. Six passengers died. I was still at the U of I then, but I latter went to work for the ICG. A VP told me he was there when the VP Operations of the ICG was told of the wreck. The VPO's face literally went totally white. That surely must be a terrible thing to hear, that a passenger train you're responsible for has wrecked while running nearly 100 MPH. A couple years ago I was having lunch with that same former VP who had told me the tale. In the conversation he referred to "The Lattest Wreck of the City of New Orleans". There was one passenger fatality in that one. Some things, unfortunately, do not change. I'll go on. I met my X working at the ICG, so she knew the railroad. She was in bed asleep and I was watching TV when the news of the Kankakee wreck came over the tube. They showed pictures from a helicopter. We had long since left the railroad. I went in and woke her up. I told her: "The City's wrecked and it's bad". She wasn't even mad that I woke her up. That train was the Soul of the Illinois Central. Somebody even wrote a song about it.
daveklepper wrote: Is it possible that the City of NO was dropped and then restored because of protests? Or did I encounter something unusual and what was it?
Is it possible that the City of NO was dropped and then restored because of protests? Or did I encounter something unusual and what was it?
I don't think so. I went to school in Champaign during the transistion to Amtrak. I don't recall the CNO being a "train off". I remember it rolling south of Champaign with an A-B-B E unit lash up. Sure was pretty. I also remember the IC's first intermodal trains behind those E's. An equally pleasing site.
The first Amtrak passenger fatalities came on the CNO. IIRC it was just a few days after Amtrak took over and the CNO was getting up near the century mark south of Champaign when an axle locked up on one of the E's. Six passengers died.
I was still at the U of I then, but I latter went to work for the ICG. A VP told me he was there when the VP Operations of the ICG was told of the wreck. The VPO's face literally went totally white. That surely must be a terrible thing to hear, that a passenger train you're responsible for has wrecked while running nearly 100 MPH.
A couple years ago I was having lunch with that same former VP who had told me the tale. In the conversation he referred to "The Lattest Wreck of the City of New Orleans". There was one passenger fatality in that one. Some things, unfortunately, do not change.
I'll go on. I met my X working at the ICG, so she knew the railroad. She was in bed asleep and I was watching TV when the news of the Kankakee wreck came over the tube. They showed pictures from a helicopter. We had long since left the railroad.
I went in and woke her up. I told her: "The City's wrecked and it's bad". She wasn't even mad that I woke her up. That train was the Soul of the Illinois Central. Somebody even wrote a song about it.
It may be an "Urban Ledgend" but I seem to recall that when the Steve Goodman/Arlo Guthrie song " City of New Orleans" was put forward in the Memphis, Tn. newspapers as a reason for the reinstatement of the name of the former IC train (nee-AMTRAK). At least in the 1970's it seemed to enjoy a resergence of ridership that was attributed strictly to the train? Can anoyone shed any light on this?
KCS,
One of my Dad's friends was a produce broker who did business through the Water St. produce market in Chicago. He would comment about how fast and reliable the IC was with strawberry shipments from Hammond, LA. He'd place his orders with the growers there, and the berries were delivered in Chicago the next day like clockwork.
KCSfan wrote: The migration of Blacks from the South in those times resulted in an imbalance of passenger traffic on the IC. This necessitated running one more train north than ran south, The Creole, which ran only northbound. The Creole's equipment was deadheaded back south and not open to revenue passengers on the Southern Express which was a one coach only mail and express local making all stops from southern Illinois to New Orleans.
The migration of Blacks from the South in those times resulted in an imbalance of passenger traffic on the IC. This necessitated running one more train north than ran south, The Creole, which ran only northbound. The Creole's equipment was deadheaded back south and not open to revenue passengers on the Southern Express which was a one coach only mail and express local making all stops from southern Illinois to New Orleans.
I think if you will check the very last timetable for IC passenger service, you will find that I am correct that the City of New Orleans was discontinued before the Amtrak startup. Unless for some reason the discontinuence that I experienced and that interfered with travel plans was some temporary matter due to trackwork or whatever. I'd be interested in someone checking this matter with the last IC timetable or if the suspension that I experienced was temporary, what was the reason?
The 1954 list shows the buffet lounge going through to New Orleans. At some point when I started riding, this car ran only Chicago - Carbondale, possibly starting around 1962.
While obviously not passenger trains, because of their many similarities I don't think its totally inappropriate to mention the strawberry trains which the IC ran until sometime in the 1950's. Each spring at the start and tail end of the season the IC carried one or two carloads of strawberries daily from south Louisiana to Chicago as part of the consist of either the Louisiane or the Creole. However at the height of the harvest the IC ran daily special trains consisting of up to 10 cars of strawberries carried in wood sided Railway Express reefers. These would be dispatched as passenger extras from Hammond, LA in the late afternoon arriving in Chicago mid morning the next day. They covered the 867 miles in 16+ hours which rivaled the schedules of both the Panama Limited and City of NO. When I remember them they were headed by one of the IC's high stepping 1100 series 4-6-2 passenger engines and stopped enroute only for crew and engine changes. Try as hard as I can, I can't remember whether they carried a coach or a caboose on the tail end for the conductor and rear brakeman to ride in. The much balloyhooed perishables express service which the BNSF/CSX inauguarated this past October from California to the east coast (5 days transit time at an average speed of 23 mph) couldn't hold a candle to the IC's stawberry specials of 50-60 years ago behind steam at that.
Your Aunt probably rode the Seminole which left Mattoon at 7:35 in the morning and put her in Central Station at 10:40 in plenty of time for a lunch in Chicago. Return was likely on either the Seminole leaving Chi at 5:10 or possibly the Louisiane which left at 7:45 but didn't get into Mattoon until the rather late hour of 11:10. Another possibility was the Illini which ran between Chicago and Carbondale. It had been discontinued prior to the 1954 date of my oldest OG. The Illini at one time was a popular train with passengers from southern and central Illinois going to and from Chicago and carried both an IC parlor car and a cafe lounge car though these were probably dropped in the latter years of its operation. For the life of me I can't remember its schedule but seem to recall it ran north to Chicago in the morning and back to Carbondale in the evening.
Somewhere I recall noting that you live in Valpariso. I remember the days when the PRR ran one or possibly two commuter trains from Valpo to Union Station in the morning and back at night. Also as a boy in the 1940's we'd often take Sunday afternoon trips over that way and I was always thrilled to see a train headed by one of the Pennsy's T-1 4-4-4-4's as we drove down old 4-lane super highway (at the time) US 30 east of Valpo. Recollections such as that will give you a clue to my age which was 74 as of last September.
Mark:
I remember looking at OGs and noticing there was an imbalance of passenger trains. Thanks for the info on why.
While I rode one IC train as a youth, I dont remember it. My aunt lived in Mattoon and her husband worked for the IC there. Thus she had a pass to ride all IC passenger trains at no charge and all others at half price. Her stories of riding the passenger train in the 60's probably contributed to my interest in trains. She would ride to Chicago every Wed morning with her best friend for lunch and shopping. That was her day off and she would take advantage of pass. Imagine the stories she told me, particularly about the Christmas lights on Michigan Avenue. I would have loved to have gone with her just once.
Very few Blacks rode the Panama Limited probably because it was pretty pricey what with the cost of a first class rail ticket plus the charge for Pullman accomodations. Ridership was largely business travelers and the more affluent passengers. In the 1960's and prior there were relatively few Blacks in the southern states served by the Panama that fit into either category. On the other hand I'd estimate ridership on the City of NO was about 40% Black north of Carbondale gradually shifting to 60% Black from Memphis southward.
When the Creole arrived in Champaign it was largely filled with Black riders from the south. Its early evening departure made it a popular train for Champaign passengers and several coaches and a diner were added there for the trip to Chicago. As a Uof I student in the mid 50's I often rode the Creole home to Homewood on Friday nights. That old heavyweight diner put out some truly great food. I didn't always eat a full meal but never failed to have their specialty, hot apple pie which was the best I ever ate topped with either a scoop of vanilla ice cream or a big slice of cheddar cheese. Those pies were baked on the diner in a coal fired stove prior to departing Champaign.
Mark:That is an interesting comment about the segregation on the IC. In my advanced adult years, I have often wondered if the IC trains were Jim Crow type operations. With so much of their business being Mississippi/Tennesee to Chicago African American business one would have thought the IC would have catered to that business. Of course the realities of the times probably dictated a policy.
In looking at the Official Guides of the 50's it is interesting to note the trains' services, mainly station stops deep in the South. It would be interesting to know how much of IC's African American business was handled on the Panama Ltd and City of New Orleans vs other trains.
A couple of more tidbits about ICRR passenger service. The City of NO in the late 40's and 1950s typically was a 15 car train but would carry up to 20 cars at peak travel times. Also in this time frame both it and the Panama carried only one head end car, a baggage car, no mail or express.
Trains magazine used to publish an annual listing of the fastest trains in the US. For several years after its inauguration the CNO topped the list with IIRC a 114 mph start to stop SCHEDULED speed for the 71 miles between Champaign and Effingham. This was a section of the road thad had in-cab signalling and predated ICC mandated speed limits. The CNO had a speedometer in its observation car and and I have personally seen it pegged at 120mph over this stretch.
Until outlawed in the 1960's IC coach passengers, like those on all other southern railroads, were racially segregated from Kentucky southward. At Central Station in Chicago the IC employed Passenger Service Reps ostensibly to assist boarding passengers. One of their duties was to direct passengers to various cars based on their destination. Blacks going to points in Kentucky and other southern states were directed to the head end coaches and whites to the rear coaches. Intrastate Illinois passengers could sit anywhere on the train. From Kentucky southward black passengers were not allowed in the observation lounge cars. Dining cars typically had two tables for black diners (across the aisle from each other and closest to the kitchen) which were partioned off from the rest of the seating area.
Corection to above, the through cars to and from St. Lousi were from and to New Orleans. Otherwise, yes, the Panama was the overnighter, all-Pullman and then just all-1st Class sleeper until the City of New Orleans was discontinued and its coaches added to the Panama as the Magnolia Star. And the City of New Orleans was the all day dawn to dusk train. I rode both a many times, not only on through trips on the Panama from New Orleans to Chicago, but also just down to Chapaign-Urbana and Carbondale, to and from Memphis, Memphis to Chapaign-Urbana, to and from Jackson, New Orleand to Jackson after a connection across the platform from the overnight TP-MP Houston - New Orleans train. Except for the Super Chief and El Cap, one could not find better food, smoother rides, better service, all around excellence on any trains in the USA at the time. Sure, the Merchants Limited was the equal but not any better! (But the track was never as smooth, only in spots.) The Pennsy was just as fast in the Corridor, but could not compair on other accounts. The Broadway and the Centry were fine also, but again the track wasn't as smooth. Well, yes maybe also the UP City of Los Angeles in the dome diner days, but the food was even better on the IC, and track was rougher on either the Northwestern or later the Milwaukee east of Omaha.
The IC provide a good Chicago - St. Louis service, separately, by the Green Diamond and an overnight train, but the Alton - Gulf Mobile and Ohio route was the bigger carrier, including through equipment to Texas via the MP.
daveklepper wrote: OK, I rode both trains during the period 1967-1970. The City of New Orleans looked like an all-lightweight streamliner, from its E-units (2, usually) up front to the round-end observation that was used at least at the beginning of my riding, but possible dropped toward the end. But if I remember correctly the dining car was a much rebuilt older car, rebuilt to match the lightweights but still on 6-wheel trucks. The train did run solid from Chicago to New Orleans, except cars were added southbound and subtracted northbound for St. Louis, then this became a change-trains connection, and then a bus. Possibly in 1969, the train was discontiniued, and coaches were added to the Panama with a separate train name, "The Magnolia Star." On occasion, then two diners were used, but also on occasion just one. And sometimes three E's were on the point. I think there was a combination baggage-RPO car up front and sometimes additional head end equipment, sometimes spoiling the all-streamlined appearance, during the years that the City ran. The Panama's diner was similar, and the rest of the train was pretty much lighweight sleepers, up to the change noted above. An exception was from Chicago to Carbondale and return, when a parlor-observation with an interior made to represent the New Orleans French Quarter handled the passengers from Chicago to Chamapaign-Urbana and to Carbondale. This was a blunt-end observation, switched-out southbound and added northbound, a much-rebuilt heavyweight on 6-wheel trucks.. Through cars to St. Louis ran from New Orleans, and there were drop sleepers from Chicago for Memphis and even one for Jackson, MS, addedd northbound. Not after the Magnolia Star was established, when the connection was a separate train or bus. I think the Panama also had a baggage-RPO until the mail was switched to trucks in 1968 or 1969. I think most of the sleepers were ten and sixes. I don't remember any but smooth-sides cars used on these trains, no Budd stainless or fluted sides.
OK, I rode both trains during the period 1967-1970. The City of New Orleans looked like an all-lightweight streamliner, from its E-units (2, usually) up front to the round-end observation that was used at least at the beginning of my riding, but possible dropped toward the end. But if I remember correctly the dining car was a much rebuilt older car, rebuilt to match the lightweights but still on 6-wheel trucks. The train did run solid from Chicago to New Orleans, except cars were added southbound and subtracted northbound for St. Louis, then this became a change-trains connection, and then a bus. Possibly in 1969, the train was discontiniued, and coaches were added to the Panama with a separate train name, "The Magnolia Star." On occasion, then two diners were used, but also on occasion just one. And sometimes three E's were on the point. I think there was a combination baggage-RPO car up front and sometimes additional head end equipment, sometimes spoiling the all-streamlined appearance, during the years that the City ran.
The Panama's diner was similar, and the rest of the train was pretty much lighweight sleepers, up to the change noted above. An exception was from Chicago to Carbondale and return, when a parlor-observation with an interior made to represent the New Orleans French Quarter handled the passengers from Chicago to Chamapaign-Urbana and to Carbondale. This was a blunt-end observation, switched-out southbound and added northbound, a much-rebuilt heavyweight on 6-wheel trucks.. Through cars to St. Louis ran from New Orleans, and there were drop sleepers from Chicago for Memphis and even one for Jackson, MS, addedd northbound. Not after the Magnolia Star was established, when the connection was a separate train or bus. I think the Panama also had a baggage-RPO until the mail was switched to trucks in 1968 or 1969.
I think most of the sleepers were ten and sixes. I don't remember any but smooth-sides cars used on these trains, no Budd stainless or fluted sides.
"The City" was a day operation, day accomodations, from Chicago south to Carbondale, where it was customary to drop off the cars going on thru to St. Louis, and picked up the returning connection on the northbound leg. "The Panama" was originally the night train, all Pullman. Left NOLA in the evening, stop in Memphis around midnight and then into Chicago about morning. Some 600+- miles in a time of about 13/14 hours. The food onboard both trains, was always a treat, and frequent travelers got to know the crew members, and vice-versa. A good tipper would own the service!
A number of years ago, a model company,American Beauty, put out an excelent set of cars that could be modeled into about any IC pasenger train, and Hobbytown made some cast metal E-units that would pull as many cars as one wanted to run behind them.
These trains, The City of New Orlans and Panama Ltd. operated on what was a really well maitained and fast road. It was double, and in some places triple tracked, to create a fast operation, especially for the passenger trains.. Most of the line was operated at a speed only achieved on the NEC by Amtrak, today.
Correction. I rode these trains 1957-1970, not 1967-1970!
I also considered IC passenger service excellent. At the start of the era, near perfect, almost up to AT&SF standards, and still pretty good toward Amtrak.
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