solzrules wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: CNW 6000 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation. Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks? I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. If he's not working for the WIDOT, WTF is he doing acting like this? Well, if I lived in Wisconsin and was a curious taxpayer, I'd want to know exactly from where in the state budget the money to continue funding the job of this public official is coming [please see Freedom of Information Act]. I mean, what are we supposed to believe here? That even though his position, technically created by law, has not been renewed, he just keeps showing up and picking up a paycheck for almost a year and a half? How much is he costing taxpayers? Who does he account to? Who originally sponsored him for the job? Would anyone here like to apply for a job like this? Consider this: he has no current official standing as a state employee, which means any of his official actions would probably not be upheld in any court of law. Is that how they want the regulatory process to work in Wisconsin? It leaves the state wide-open for appeals on anything he's done in the last 16 months. Guess who'll pay for the lawyers? Plus, he really must be quite dense. Despite skating on both legal and ethical "thin ice" he continues not only to throw his weight around, but he does it in a highly questionable fashion that calls way too much attention to himself -- and creates nasty headlines. This does not make the state of Wisconsin -- or its leaders -- look good. Time for the current governor to do the right thing and surgically remove this bozo from the public trough immediately. And if his job needs to be filled, put someone in there who is more low-key. Frankly, I'm also surprised no Wisconsin-based newspaper journalist isn't all over this story beyond the superfluous reports. Does this guy have that many friends? Poppa Z Believe me these are all important questions. Our governor, however, is currently embroiled in scandal due to his unique talent of taking the term "pay to play" to new levels. His political appointees are questionable (and that's after a strong bottle of scotch). Our A.G. (we actually voted this 'gem' into office) showed up at an illegal immigrant rally to declare that she will not enforce WI law with regards to illegal immigration. This from the chief law enforcement officer of the state. Doyle's administration has suffered increased scrutiny after it was revealed that the state's travel agency contract was directed to a travel agency that made substantial campaign contributions before and after the contract was rewarded - and they weren't the lowest bidder. (By law government agencies in Wisconsin have to accept the lowest reasonable bid on contract work). As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is. State politics here are deplorable, and both parties are to blame. The current democratic government has a great number of problems, but past republican administrations have had an equal number of difficulties at leading. I guess this state is poor at turning out potential political leaders. Our senator Russ Feingold, althought I disagree with him one thousand percent of the time, at least is able to say what he really believes. I guess in a state where there is a such a lack of capable leaders in our government at least that is one of a very few admirable qualities. When political favors are fulfilled with perceived meanial appointments (like the state RR comissioner) this is the quality of leadership we should expect. The sad thing is that railroad safety at WSOR and accross the state on the publicly owned tracks will potentially suffer, just because this guy has a screw loose.
Poppa_Zit wrote: CNW 6000 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation. Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks? I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. If he's not working for the WIDOT, WTF is he doing acting like this? Well, if I lived in Wisconsin and was a curious taxpayer, I'd want to know exactly from where in the state budget the money to continue funding the job of this public official is coming [please see Freedom of Information Act]. I mean, what are we supposed to believe here? That even though his position, technically created by law, has not been renewed, he just keeps showing up and picking up a paycheck for almost a year and a half? How much is he costing taxpayers? Who does he account to? Who originally sponsored him for the job? Would anyone here like to apply for a job like this? Consider this: he has no current official standing as a state employee, which means any of his official actions would probably not be upheld in any court of law. Is that how they want the regulatory process to work in Wisconsin? It leaves the state wide-open for appeals on anything he's done in the last 16 months. Guess who'll pay for the lawyers? Plus, he really must be quite dense. Despite skating on both legal and ethical "thin ice" he continues not only to throw his weight around, but he does it in a highly questionable fashion that calls way too much attention to himself -- and creates nasty headlines. This does not make the state of Wisconsin -- or its leaders -- look good. Time for the current governor to do the right thing and surgically remove this bozo from the public trough immediately. And if his job needs to be filled, put someone in there who is more low-key. Frankly, I'm also surprised no Wisconsin-based newspaper journalist isn't all over this story beyond the superfluous reports. Does this guy have that many friends?
CNW 6000 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation. Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks? I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. If he's not working for the WIDOT, WTF is he doing acting like this?
Poppa_Zit wrote: He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation. Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks?
He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation.
Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. If he's not working for the WIDOT, WTF is he doing acting like this?
Well, if I lived in Wisconsin and was a curious taxpayer, I'd want to know exactly from where in the state budget the money to continue funding the job of this public official is coming [please see Freedom of Information Act]. I mean, what are we supposed to believe here? That even though his position, technically created by law, has not been renewed, he just keeps showing up and picking up a paycheck for almost a year and a half? How much is he costing taxpayers? Who does he account to? Who originally sponsored him for the job? Would anyone here like to apply for a job like this?
Consider this: he has no current official standing as a state employee, which means any of his official actions would probably not be upheld in any court of law. Is that how they want the regulatory process to work in Wisconsin? It leaves the state wide-open for appeals on anything he's done in the last 16 months. Guess who'll pay for the lawyers?
Plus, he really must be quite dense. Despite skating on both legal and ethical "thin ice" he continues not only to throw his weight around, but he does it in a highly questionable fashion that calls way too much attention to himself -- and creates nasty headlines. This does not make the state of Wisconsin -- or its leaders -- look good.
Time for the current governor to do the right thing and surgically remove this bozo from the public trough immediately. And if his job needs to be filled, put someone in there who is more low-key.
Frankly, I'm also surprised no Wisconsin-based newspaper journalist isn't all over this story beyond the superfluous reports. Does this guy have that many friends?
Poppa Z
Believe me these are all important questions. Our governor, however, is currently embroiled in scandal due to his unique talent of taking the term "pay to play" to new levels. His political appointees are questionable (and that's after a strong bottle of scotch). Our A.G. (we actually voted this 'gem' into office) showed up at an illegal immigrant rally to declare that she will not enforce WI law with regards to illegal immigration. This from the chief law enforcement officer of the state. Doyle's administration has suffered increased scrutiny after it was revealed that the state's travel agency contract was directed to a travel agency that made substantial campaign contributions before and after the contract was rewarded - and they weren't the lowest bidder. (By law government agencies in Wisconsin have to accept the lowest reasonable bid on contract work).
As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is.
State politics here are deplorable, and both parties are to blame. The current democratic government has a great number of problems, but past republican administrations have had an equal number of difficulties at leading. I guess this state is poor at turning out potential political leaders. Our senator Russ Feingold, althought I disagree with him one thousand percent of the time, at least is able to say what he really believes. I guess in a state where there is a such a lack of capable leaders in our government at least that is one of a very few admirable qualities.
When political favors are fulfilled with perceived meanial appointments (like the state RR comissioner) this is the quality of leadership we should expect. The sad thing is that railroad safety at WSOR and accross the state on the publicly owned tracks will potentially suffer, just because this guy has a screw loose.
The problems you cite are not exclusive. "Pay for Play" is just as rampant in Illinois, where five of the last seven governors have been convicted of politics-related crimes, all felonies. "Six? Six? Do I have six in the back of the room?"
Corruption is the bedfellow of politics. But there is one thing about all this that bothers me. Do the politicians also own the media in Wisconsin?
Where's the outrage?
solzrules wrote:As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is.
One of the reasons Bergie will kill or lock political threads is that they rarely rise above a citation of all the things that are bad with often containing gross generalities based on biased issue adds. Poppa can pick up a cross section of Wisconsin papers and find all the outrage he would like to see in editorials and letters to the editors.
Rodney Kreunen may have some ego issues or maybe he is just getting cranky in his older age. His job is independent of the Wisconsin Department of Transportation and over time he has been an outspoken advocate of the development (or redevelopment, if you prefer) of freight and passenger rail service in Wisconsin. Typically, his arguments are ignored other than to suggest that what he proposes is going to cost the state millions, billions or whatever. For rail service? We need a billion or so to rebuild the Marquette interchange to avoid the half hour or so rush hour back for the Milwaukee commuters! I'm not saying that I am against highway construction and I don't think there is a great deal of need for rail transit in any of our fairly small city areas. I'm just citing the attitude.
Uncle Rodney's main job now is to squeeze the governor and the legislature for as much money as possible to address the rail-highway crossing issues and then allocate the paltry sums appropriated as best as possible. That part is highly politicized. No matter where the money goes, the cry will be that the distribution will be unfair. For those interested, our governor is a Democrat and both houses of the legislature are controled by Republicans. I suspect that Gov. Doyle would just as soon leave a Republican appointee in the job and avoid the heat.
Jay
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
mikeyuhas wrote: solzrules wrote: As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is. Except this "Doyle appointee" -- if you're talking about the Railroad Commissioner -- was appointed by the previous governor.
solzrules wrote: As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is.
Mike -
I must first say that I really enjoy your website and your railfanning pictures! You obviously are very good at photography and I would highly recommend any railfan of the SE Wisconsin area to check them out! http://www.mikeyuhas.org/
As for the "Doyle appointee", note that I admit that previous republican administrations are guilty of low-quality leadership as well. One example of that is the appointment of this guy. Doyle, it should be noted, has made no effort to replace him or confirm him in the senate. You are right, it may be inaccurate to call him a "Doyle appointee", but given that he hasn't been ejected from his role of railroad commissionar by our governor I certainly wouldn't say that he is an exclusivly republican problem. I suppose one could argue he really isn't a legitimate railroad comissioner, either. Poppa Z made this point earlier.
Poppa_Zit wrote: solzrules wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: CNW 6000 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: He has been commissioner since 1996 when he was appointed to his first two-year term by then Gov. Tommy Thompson. His last term expired in March 2005 and Gov. Jim Doyle has not submitted his name to the state Senate for confirmation. Whoops! Since his term expired over 16 months ago, he no longer has any statutory authority. Why are they still issuing him paychecks? I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught that. If he's not working for the WIDOT, WTF is he doing acting like this? Well, if I lived in Wisconsin and was a curious taxpayer, I'd want to know exactly from where in the state budget the money to continue funding the job of this public official is coming [please see Freedom of Information Act]. I mean, what are we supposed to believe here? That even though his position, technically created by law, has not been renewed, he just keeps showing up and picking up a paycheck for almost a year and a half? How much is he costing taxpayers? Who does he account to? Who originally sponsored him for the job? Would anyone here like to apply for a job like this? Consider this: he has no current official standing as a state employee, which means any of his official actions would probably not be upheld in any court of law. Is that how they want the regulatory process to work in Wisconsin? It leaves the state wide-open for appeals on anything he's done in the last 16 months. Guess who'll pay for the lawyers? Plus, he really must be quite dense. Despite skating on both legal and ethical "thin ice" he continues not only to throw his weight around, but he does it in a highly questionable fashion that calls way too much attention to himself -- and creates nasty headlines. This does not make the state of Wisconsin -- or its leaders -- look good. Time for the current governor to do the right thing and surgically remove this bozo from the public trough immediately. And if his job needs to be filled, put someone in there who is more low-key. Frankly, I'm also surprised no Wisconsin-based newspaper journalist isn't all over this story beyond the superfluous reports. Does this guy have that many friends? Poppa Z Believe me these are all important questions. Our governor, however, is currently embroiled in scandal due to his unique talent of taking the term "pay to play" to new levels. His political appointees are questionable (and that's after a strong bottle of scotch). Our A.G. (we actually voted this 'gem' into office) showed up at an illegal immigrant rally to declare that she will not enforce WI law with regards to illegal immigration. This from the chief law enforcement officer of the state. Doyle's administration has suffered increased scrutiny after it was revealed that the state's travel agency contract was directed to a travel agency that made substantial campaign contributions before and after the contract was rewarded - and they weren't the lowest bidder. (By law government agencies in Wisconsin have to accept the lowest reasonable bid on contract work). As for this Doyle appointee - rest assured he will keep his job. As long as he remains a 'yes' man for Diamond Jim Doyle he will keep his job. Screw ups like this will blow over in a week or two. It is already out of the news cycle. Doyle has a history of backing anyone who agrees with him to the end, no matter how embarassing that is. State politics here are deplorable, and both parties are to blame. The current democratic government has a great number of problems, but past republican administrations have had an equal number of difficulties at leading. I guess this state is poor at turning out potential political leaders. Our senator Russ Feingold, althought I disagree with him one thousand percent of the time, at least is able to say what he really believes. I guess in a state where there is a such a lack of capable leaders in our government at least that is one of a very few admirable qualities. When political favors are fulfilled with perceived meanial appointments (like the state RR comissioner) this is the quality of leadership we should expect. The sad thing is that railroad safety at WSOR and accross the state on the publicly owned tracks will potentially suffer, just because this guy has a screw loose. The problems you cite are not exclusive. "Pay for Play" is just as rampant in Illinois, where five of the last seven governors have been convicted of politics-related crimes, all felonies. "Six? Six? Do I have six in the back of the room?" Corruption is the bedfellow of politics. But there is one thing about all this that bothers me. Do the politicians also own the media in Wisconsin? Where's the outrage?
The mass media in this state is biased. This may seem like a generality but it is the truth. News articles critical of politicians the newspaper likes are buried in the back pages, while unfavorable politicians recieve front-page, above-the-fold coverage. Examples could be given but there isn't enough room in this forum for this. Those who read the Milwaukee Journel/Sentinal closely and who have studied propaganda will immediately note similarities. Newspapers can conveigh news through pictures as much as they can through words. Our TV media can best be described as a warm, fuzzy ball of fluff. News stories are centered around "human interest" items like the 80 year old lady with her collection of pound puppies, or the man who's gone to the park for the last 30 years to feed pigeons. All the while the crime rates in Milwaukee escalate and no one is willing to get serious about it. Industries leave the city for the country (or China). Taxes get higher and people find it harder to live in the city.
In this case, the newspaper has made it clear they support Jim Doyle over his opponent and any stories that are negative towards him are made light of or not reported at all. This incident is so small in the gran
The mass media in this state is biased. This may seem like a generality but it is the truth. News articles critical of politicians the newspaper likes are buried in the back pages, while unfavorable politicians recieve front-page, above-the-fold coverage. Examples could be given but there isn't enough room in this forum for this. Those who read the Milwaukee Journel/Sentinal closely and who have studied propaganda will immediately note similarities. Newspapers can conveigh news through pictures as much as they can through words. Our TV media can best be described as a warm, fuzzy ball of fluff. News stories are centered around "human interest" items like the 80 year old lady with her collection of pound puppies, or the man who's gone to the park for the last 30 years to feed pigeons. All the while the crime rates in Milwaukee escalate and no one is willing to get serious about it. Industries leave the city for the country (or China). Taxes get higher and people find it harder to live in the city. In this case, the newspaper has made it clear they support Jim Doyle over his opponent and any stories that are negative towards him are made light of or not reported at all. This incident is so small in the grand scheme of things it isn't reported at all anymore. The only way I found out about it was a small blurb in the Urinal/Sentinal (oops! I mean the Journel/Sentinal) that led to further research on line (including this forum).
In this case, the newspaper has made it clear they support Jim Doyle over his opponent and any stories that are negative towards him are made light of or not reported at all. This incident is so small in the grand scheme of things it isn't reported at all anymore. The only way I found out about it was a small blurb in the Urinal/Sentinal (oops! I mean the Journel/Sentinal) that led to further research on line (including this forum).
I am not indicting any individual or entity with these statements; rather, I speak in general terms.
Part of the problem may be a lack of a competing newspaper in either Milwaukee and Madison. Another reason may be the overall decline of advertising revenues and readership of general circulation daily newspapers. Many publishers and/or editors are afraid to offend anyone. This is not spoken, but when the juicy political corruption/incompetence stories get buried or are ignored, that's usually enough evidence to the fact.
This may sound funny, but taxing bodies (the government) also do some awfully lucrative advertising buys -- legal notices, notices to bid, lists of polling places, advertising for municipal golf courses and revenue-producing recreation facilities, etc. No newspaper wants to lose that revenue. Political parties also do quite a bit of print ad buys leading up to elections, too. No newspaper wants to be on the "outs" when those plums are passed out.
Unfortunately, the tendency in one-newspaper towns is that over the years, the publishers and editors (TV and radio people, too) get too chummy with the local pols -- they may be members of the same country club, they may sit on boards or dias together -- and feel like it's simply not worth rocking the boat. That's a shame, because without an unbiased media doing its job, democracy suffers.
Before you all go on a tear about politicians, political appointments, rights of taxpayers, and how bad things are in Wisconsin, you need to know about Rodney Kreunen and about the Wisconsin and Southern Railroad.
Mr. Kreunen is in the real estate business by trade who is also one of us -- a foamer. I would say he is the Dean of Foamers in Wisconsin, hence Uncle Rodney. People in real estate have political contacts, and Mr. Kreunen parlayed his into being appointed Railroad Commissioner by Governer Tommy Thompson.
Mr. Kreunen is a foamer who has a railroad-related job. It is often argued that foamer-dom and railroading don't mix and that railroads don't want them on their payroll, but Mr. Kreunen has taken his state regulatory job seriously and pursued crossing safety with zeal. The Railroad Commissioner post is an outlet for Mr. Kreunen's foamer impulses, but he has done good work on crossing safety and public education.
The Wisconsin and Southern Railroad is, how can I say it, a railroad with all that entails. Railroads, meaning the people who own and operate them, are an integral part of the local community, but they don't always get along with the local politicians, neighbors, foamers, and perhaps their own employees. A railroad wouldn't quite be a railroad if its management weren't a little grumpy.
A previous Madison mayor instituted a train whistle ban, which the W&S grumped about. The W&S operates some old commuter bilevels and an E8, and for a while it ran special trains from the town of Middleton to Madison for UW football games. After the whistle ban, the W&S decided it was not longer interested in football trains -- they weren't getting their way, and they decided to take their own football as it were an go home. The FRA managed to override all local-ordinance whistle bans, and now the W&S train crews are laying into the air horn like there is no tomorrow.
My first reaction to the incident with Mr. Kreunen was based on local TV news. Part of being a railfan is that sometimes the railroad and its representatives are very generous -- offering a spot on the property for a photo, cab rides, other goodies. More often the railroad acts as the big bad railroad -- no football train, get off our property, no photos even from public places (mainly NJ transit, not W&S so far). As a railfan, one is to accept the opportunities as they are presented as a free gift and one is to be philosophical about the times the railroad says no. Every railfan is a representative of the broader railfan community, and each railfan needs to conform to this code for the good of all other railfans. My initial reaction was that Rodney Kreunen wasn't conforming to the code.
But based on the newspaper account, it appears that Mr. Kreunen was trying to pull rank based on needing to be in the cab to inspect grade crossings, and the W&S was very much playing the part of the Big Bad Railroad by having Mr. Kreunen charged after the fact based on their account of what happened.
This story is very much topical to this forum because it is very much about relations between the railroads and foamerdom. I feel badly for Rodney Kreunen -- some railfans in these parts resent his highly public and now unfavorable profile, but others feel his radio program and other activities has had a good public outreach about trains to many who wouldn't otherwise consider themselves railfans.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul
Thanks for adding more substance to my comments. One might say it is a clash between two people who have frustrated each others efforts to do what is best.
Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with several points made here. Maybe someone will back me up, too.
First, the W&S is a Big Bad Railroad because on a day where it was doing public relations work in the community, Mr.Kreunen was tossed out of the cab? He just so happened to suddenly need to inspect grade crossings from the locomotive at the exact moment they were giving rides to festival-goers? C'mon, get real. This guy seems to be just a big weenie -- a weenie showoff with a huge ego.
"He's poking me in the chest and saying you got to stop being an (expletive)," Gardner told the AP. "I told him to go away. Then he says, 'you just see how far you get without MY safety funds. I'm going to cut you off.' "
HIS safety funds? Wow is HE important, everyone. Can you spell H-U-B-R-I-S?
I find it slightly disconcerting that some people seem to be willing to cut him slack because he's a foamer, he's getting old, he's getting grumpy, blah, blah, blah. Plain and simple, he's abused his position more than once. I don't doubt he has done some good things, but isn't that his job? Nobody pins awards on people for showing up for work or stopping for stop signs.
One of the reasons political threads get started here is because they're always about negatives -- otherwise, they're not news and not worth discussing, are they? I would hope Rodney has done some good for the railroads and people in Wisconsin for the last ten years in return for all those paychecks. And free train rides, too.
Paul Milenkovic wrote: A previous Madison mayor instituted a train whistle ban, which the W&S grumped about. The W&S operates some old commuter bilevels and an E8, and for a while it ran special trains from the town of Middleton to Madison for UW football games. After the whistle ban, the W&S decided it was not longer interested in football trains -- they weren't getting their way, and they decided to take their own football as it were an go home. The FRA managed to override all local-ordinance whistle bans, and now the W&S train crews are laying into the air horn like there is no tomorrow.
I don't think that the WSOR did anything wrong here, if the city is going to do something that may harm the railroad's buisness, the railroad should respond in kind. It could have been worse for the city. Here in the Chicago area, United Airlines is going to move some of its headquartes because the village that it is located in is against the expansion of O'hare. If you look at it United is funding the oposition of the expansion, which United wants in a bad way, by the taxes it pays from the HQ. The WSOR could have just stopped service in the city of Madison to protest, and said it was because of saftey concerns. Since the FRA overturned the horn ban, it seems that they maybe would of had a point.
Bert
An "expensive model collector"
Paul Milenkovic wrote: Before you all go on a tear about politicians, political appointments, rights of taxpayers, and how bad things are in Wisconsin, you need to know about Rodney Kreunen and about the Wisconsin and Southern Railroad. Mr. Kreunen is in the real estate business by trade who is also one of us -- a foamer. I would say he is the Dean of Foamers in Wisconsin, hence Uncle Rodney. People in real estate have political contacts, and Mr. Kreunen parlayed his into being appointed Railroad Commissioner by Governer Tommy Thompson. Mr. Kreunen is a foamer who has a railroad-related job. It is often argued that foamer-dom and railroading don't mix and that railroads don't want them on their payroll, but Mr. Kreunen has taken his state regulatory job seriously and pursued crossing safety with zeal. The Railroad Commissioner post is an outlet for Mr. Kreunen's foamer impulses, but he has done good work on crossing safety and public education. The Wisconsin and Southern Railroad is, how can I say it, a railroad with all that entails. Railroads, meaning the people who own and operate them, are an integral part of the local community, but they don't always get along with the local politicians, neighbors, foamers, and perhaps their own employees. A railroad wouldn't quite be a railroad if its management weren't a little grumpy. A previous Madison mayor instituted a train whistle ban, which the W&S grumped about. The W&S operates some old commuter bilevels and an E8, and for a while it ran special trains from the town of Middleton to Madison for UW football games. After the whistle ban, the W&S decided it was not longer interested in football trains -- they weren't getting their way, and they decided to take their own football as it were an go home. The FRA managed to override all local-ordinance whistle bans, and now the W&S train crews are laying into the air horn like there is no tomorrow. My first reaction to the incident with Mr. Kreunen was based on local TV news. Part of being a railfan is that sometimes the railroad and its representatives are very generous -- offering a spot on the property for a photo, cab rides, other goodies. More often the railroad acts as the big bad railroad -- no football train, get off our property, no photos even from public places (mainly NJ transit, not W&S so far). As a railfan, one is to accept the opportunities as they are presented as a free gift and one is to be philosophical about the times the railroad says no. Every railfan is a representative of the broader railfan community, and each railfan needs to conform to this code for the good of all other railfans. My initial reaction was that Rodney Kreunen wasn't conforming to the code. But based on the newspaper account, it appears that Mr. Kreunen was trying to pull rank based on needing to be in the cab to inspect grade crossings, and the W&S was very much playing the part of the Big Bad Railroad by having Mr. Kreunen charged after the fact based on their account of what happened. This story is very much topical to this forum because it is very much about relations between the railroads and foamerdom. I feel badly for Rodney Kreunen -- some railfans in these parts resent his highly public and now unfavorable profile, but others feel his radio program and other activities has had a good public outreach about trains to many who wouldn't otherwise consider themselves railfans.
The fact that he is a foamer is not a license to act like a moron. One story reports that he stood on the tracks waving his hands in order to get a train to stop. The train did this only after going into emergency braking. The train crew says he wanted a ride, but Rodney says he wanted to inspect grade crossings. Either point is irrelevant because he placed the saftey of everyone involved (and a potential derailment on WSOR's bad track) at risk through his stupid actions. To me he sounds like the consumate foamer - I wanna ride the train and I can because of who I am. Rodney can claim that he won't be bullied by an 1890's era rail baron, but what about being bullied by 2000's era political hack?
I don't doubt that Rodney has done a lot to improve grade crossing safety around the state. I also don't doubt that he has been an avid rail supporter during his tenure with the government. But is he really someone that will develop good working relationships with railroads and communities? I can't imagine someone in that postion ticking off railroads and still being able to get the job done effectively. If he is a foamer that's his business. Why not get someone in the postion whose sole qualification is something other than 'foamer'?
Also, Rodney reveals how important he thinks he is when he makes the statement "I'm cutting off funding". Now who is threatening who? WSOR doesn't want him in the cab of a locomotive and Rodney threatens to 'cut funding'? To me that sounds like a politician threatening a railroad, not the other way around. Or how 'bout this: Rodney must not think much at all of grade crossing safety because when he didn't get his foamer ride he was more than willing to cut off funding for the 'safety' everyone credits him with working for. Sounds to me like he was using the safety of WI residents as a bargaining chip, don't you think? This is the last person I want to be in charge of safety. If he is willing to cut it because he doesn't get his way then I don't think he should be in charge of the safety of a sandbox, much less a railroad.
One thing I'd like to straighten out. As of late, several people keep refering this argument as between the WSOR and Rodney. In reality, the argument is between William Gardner, the President of the WSOR, and Rodney Kreunen. I don't know all the details, but I've been told by a good friend and an inside source at the WSOR that this is a long running argument that has been going on and off for years. Apparently Rodney has been kicked off of trains before by Gardner, but charges have never been filed offically, and so that's why it's just coming to light to the general public now with this last incident. It's the "straw the broke the camels back," if you will. Now of course because William Gardner is President and CEO (or basically "god" is more like it) of the WSOR, that's where the railroad becomes involved in the argument, because it's a way Kreunen can attack Gardner, by threatening to attack what is essentially Gardner's railroad, and in this case at least, alledgedly threaten to cut off saftey funding for it.
Humbly adding my 2 cents,
Noah Hofrichter
(By the way, just as a side note, the WSOR's E units are E9s, not E8s as was previously mentioned. Just a minor thing, but for the purist out there I thought I'd note it.)
Noah Hofrichter wrote: One thing I'd like to straighten out. As of late, several people keep refering this argument as between the WSOR and Rodney. In reality, the argument is between William Gardner, the President of the WSOR, and Rodney Kreunen. I don't know all the details, but I've been told by a good friend and an inside source at the WSOR that this is a long running argument that has been going on and off for years. Apparently Rodney has been kicked off of trains before by Gardner, but charges have never been filed offically, and so that's why it's just coming to light to the general public now with this last incident. It's the "straw the broke the camels back," if you will. Now of course because William Gardner is President and CEO (or basically "god" is more like it) of the WSOR, that's where the railroad becomes involved in the argument, because it's a way Kreunen can attack Gardner, by threatening to attack what is essentially Gardner's railroad, and in this case at least, alledgedly threaten to cut off saftey funding for it. Humbly adding my 2 cents, Noah Hofrichter
Noah, the fact that it may be a long-running personal feud just recently come to light is not relative to justifying this type of boorish and arrogant behavior by a public official who allegedly abuses his position to extort free train rides and other "foamer goodies" from one of the entities he is paid to assist.
And attempting to justify his threats of cutting safety funding as "punishment" on the railroad for high crimes like halting football fan trains and "excessive" whistle blowing (a judgement call if there ever was one) is equally ridiculous.
It all comes down to one simple thing: What Mr. Kreunen is accused of doing is absolutely indefensible. Period.
Well it is unfortunate that the two guys who should get along the best for the good of the state and the good of the WSOR do not. Some of us remember when Rodney Kreunen was selling railroad postcards and luggage ID cards with railroad logos. He parlayed that into being RR commissioner. He is unquestionably a railfan and having someone pro-rail in state government should be and possibly is a plus.
But Bill Gardner of WSOR is also very much a railfan. Maybe he had a feud with the City of Madison over whistles (and believe me Madison would be the first place to blame the railroad if someone got hurt at a crossing even if they had mandates the no whistle rule) but last year he also gave train rides and allowed steam (Soo Line 1003) to run out of Madison. No sign of vindictiveness there that I can see.
The reason it is unfortunate is that WSOR is committed to local service in WI while increasingly CN, CP and UP are not. (BNSF never did have much local business in Wisconsin). The other railroads more or less can ignore what the Wisconsin RR commissioner says or does; WSOR cannot. WSOR very much needs government cooperation because they are operating rail lines that the state acquired after bigger roads walked away from them. As indicated above, for the most part the state owns the tracks; WSOR runs the trains. They are a railfan friendly railroad to be sure. The only facts I know are from the papers but it really seems to me that Kreunen overplayed his hand here
Dave Nelson
Poppa_Zit wrote: Noah, the fact that it may be a long-running personal feud just recently come to light is not relative to justifying this type of boorish and arrogant behavior by a public official who allegedly abuses his position to extort free train rides and other "foamer goodies" from one of the entities he is paid to assist. And attempting to justify his threats of cutting safety funding as "punishment" on the railroad for high crimes like halting football fan trains and "excessive" whistle blowing (a judgement call if there ever was one) is equally ridiculous. It all comes down to one simple thing: What Mr. Kreunen is accused of doing is absolutely indefensible. Period.
Poppa, I agree entirely with you there. It is entirely indefensible, and completely wrong, he should have never done anything like he did. I think Mr. Kreunen should be charged to the fullest extent possible assumming the allegations are true, and he should not be reappointed to his current position by the governor. I was just simply trying to clear up the point that it's really less the WSOR fighting him than it is one man fighting him. It's still not right no matter how you look at it.
Also, one clarification if you don't mind. Rodney Kreunen has never thought of whistle blowing as being excessive as far as I know, or at least he hasn't said it publicly in recent years. He's gone on local TV many times in direct opposition to the Madison Mayor, saying that the Whistle Ban should never have been started in the first place, and that the WSOR trains need to blow their whistles in town to help avoid accidents at grade crossings. That's probably though one of the few good things he's done in recent times, and I personally don't think it makes up for all the other things he's done. However it's one of things that can be added to his plus collumn.
Noah
Noah Hofrichter wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: Noah, the fact that it may be a long-running personal feud just recently come to light is not relative to justifying this type of boorish and arrogant behavior by a public official who allegedly abuses his position to extort free train rides and other "foamer goodies" from one of the entities he is paid to assist. And attempting to justify his threats of cutting safety funding as "punishment" on the railroad for high crimes like halting football fan trains and "excessive" whistle blowing (a judgement call if there ever was one) is equally ridiculous. It all comes down to one simple thing: What Mr. Kreunen is accused of doing is absolutely indefensible. Period. Poppa, I agree entirely with you there. It is entirely indefensible, and completely wrong, he should have never done anything like he did. I think Mr. Kreunen should be charged to the fullest extent possible assumming the allegations are true, and he should not be reappointed to his current position by the governor. I was just simply trying to clear up the point that it's really less the WSOR fighting him than it is one man fighting him. It's still not right no matter how you look at it. Also, one clarification if you don't mind. Rodney Kreunen has never thought of whistle blowing as being excessive as far as I know, or at least he hasn't said it publicly in recent years. He's gone on local TV many times in direct opposition to the Madison Mayor, saying that the Whistle Ban should never have been started in the first place, and that the WSOR trains need to blow their whistles in town to help avoid accidents at grade crossings. That's probably though one of the few good things he's done in recent times, and I personally don't think it makes up for all the other things he's done. However it's one of things that can be added to his plus collumn. Noah
I didn't say Mr. Kreunan was punishing the railroad for whistle blowing. Someone else offered that opinion -- in trying to further the weak premise that the railroad somehow deserves and/or brought Mr. Kreunen's treament on itself.
ShopsYardMaster wrote:Yeah, we got a fun little state here..heck we even got a State D. A. who was arrested for drunk driving...in a state vehicle...
I don't believe we have such a position as "railroad commish" here in Illinois -- although I'm pretty sure the state doesn't own any track like Wisconsin does. Is that the reason for his existence?
Poppa_Zit wrote: ShopsYardMaster wrote:Yeah, we got a fun little state here..heck we even got a State D. A. who was arrested for drunk driving...in a state vehicle... I don't believe we have such a position as "railroad commish" here in Illinois -- although I'm pretty sure the state doesn't own any track like Wisconsin does. Is that the reason for his existence?
Wrong, rail breath. You have five of them. http://www.icc.illinois.gov/cc.aspx
Plus 275 helpers.
jeaton wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: ShopsYardMaster wrote:Yeah, we got a fun little state here..heck we even got a State D. A. who was arrested for drunk driving...in a state vehicle... I don't believe we have such a position as "railroad commish" here in Illinois -- although I'm pretty sure the state doesn't own any track like Wisconsin does. Is that the reason for his existence? Wrong, rail breath. You have five of them. http://www.icc.illinois.gov/cc.aspx Plus 275 helpers.
Sorry, not wrong. Rodney's position is officially designated "Commissioner of Railroads." That is the position on which I was commenting, a one-man show. He has his own separate office and the agency is autonomous, limited strictly to overseeing railroads .
I looked at your link, and saw no member of the Illinois Commerce Commission designated with the specific title of "Commissioner of Railroads." That job -- and many others in transporation and public utilities -- is handled in Illinois by a committee, which probably prevents the embarrassment of outrageous and arrogant behavior by one person.
http://www.icc.illinois.gov/rr/railroadsafety.aspx
Rodney should be proud to have so many eager apologists.
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