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A complaint box for those tired of always hearing about how bad the UP is.

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Monday, July 31, 2006 3:20 PM

Isn't spewing hatred for the UP much akin to bashing any sitting President, the Yankees, The Donald, MicroSoft, SUV owners, oil companies or any other large, easy, megabuck target?

Top five reasons for dissing Union Pacific:

1.) Jealousy

2.) Envy

3.) Jealousy

4.) Envy

5.) Jealousy  

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by Lord Atmo on Monday, July 31, 2006 3:12 PM
post deleted

Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.

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Posted by wctransfer on Monday, July 31, 2006 3:11 PM
Yes I am, VERY sick of it. Too many people love to be unhappy now adays!

And Max, Im not sure what the UP does, but the BNSF has a remote control operator IN the cab. And obviously a switchman on the ground. So you dont know if anybody was inside or not! And your still insulting the person who was operating the remote. UP had nothing to do with the derailment themselves, the controller did though!

Alec
Check out my pics! [url="http://wctransfer.rrpicturearchives.net/"] http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=8714
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Posted by silicon212 on Monday, July 31, 2006 2:50 PM

 Lord Atmo wrote:
 CopCarSS wrote:
Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.


after reading my rants everywhere, you should know exactly why...

not getting any deeper than that.

enr2099, read the text next time. it says "great job with those remotes". REMOTES! REMOTE CONTROLLED LOCOMOTIVE! there was NOBODY INSIDE!

Locomotives are not sentient beings.  Even with RCO, someone has to be running it.  Even if the RCO unit 'got away' from the crew, as can happen, I'm not sure I'd want to see that sig day in and day out if I was on that crew.

And that's the point.

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Posted by Lord Atmo on Monday, July 31, 2006 2:27 PM
 CopCarSS wrote:
Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.


after reading my rants everywhere, you should know exactly why...

not getting any deeper than that.

enr2099, read the text next time. it says "great job with those remotes". REMOTES! REMOTE CONTROLLED LOCOMOTIVE! there was NOBODY INSIDE!

i will not adapt to CNW's death. i will forever hate UP. however, my solution is rather to move to a BNSF track. a peaceful resolution. this title means i dont belong here. so.... i'm out

Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.

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Posted by enr2099 on Monday, July 31, 2006 2:25 PM
 jeffhergert wrote:

  Is anyone else getting tired of the tirade against the UP? 

 

YES!! I am sick and tired of all the UP bashing. SP, DRGW, CNW, MOPAC, WP, etc. are gone. GET USED TO IT!! BTW, Lord Atmo, I'm sure the crew that had that incident would just "love" your signature.

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by nucat78 on Monday, July 31, 2006 2:14 PM

I'm not quite sure I understand the royalties for putting the UP logo on models.  I know Kleenex was quite upset when "kleenex" became common usage for facial tissue and their brandname was in jeopardy, but I don't see how UP could be hurt by models - nobody is going to refer to trains as Yupes and it's free advertising.

 

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Posted by rockisland4309 on Monday, July 31, 2006 1:36 PM

Well said Jeff.  I too grew up on the U.P.'s Marysville, KS. Sub and had my very first cab ride in a GP30.  I remember the days when I would see the U50C's, DD35B's, GP30B's and GP9B's. I was a little kid but, I still remember seeing the St. Joseph, MO local come through Home, KS with the above units in ABA or ABBA consists. 

It amazes me how some of the members on this forum are never happy with what U.P. does. Especially, with the heritiage units.  I mean, yeah, they're not going to look like the original paint schemes for the previous railroads but, just use some imagination when you look at them. Because you never know what paint job MKT, MoP or WP would of had if they were still around.

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Monday, July 31, 2006 1:23 PM

 dingoix wrote:
There is one thing I can't ever forgive UP for- closing the C&NW (ex-CGW) Oelwein shops. Sure, C&NW owned and ran them at the time, but we all know UP essentaly had control of the Northwestern in 1993 (when the shops closed). BTW, how much C&NW stock (if any) did UP own in 1984?

From the C&NWHS website-

  • 1989 Japonica Partners LP and Blackstone Capital Partners LP attempt a hostile takeover of the C&NW. The Union Pacific had to purchase millions of dollars in C&NW stock and the C&NW had to assume very heavy debt to fend off the takeover. While that saved the C&NW from a dubious fate, it left the Coal Line with the burden of pulling out of the debt and left the Union Pacific with what amounted to ultimate control over the C&NW.
  • 1991 The Traditional Yellow returned to the paint schemes of the rolling stock, the locomotives, and the Business Train. Not only did it honor a long tradition, it also weathered much better.
  • 1993 An initial public stock offering is tendered. UP investments are transferred to non-voting common stock, representing 25% ownership.
  • Dale
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    Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 31, 2006 1:14 PM

    There is nothing at all wrong with the UP.

    I like them...Always have!

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    Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 31, 2006 1:02 PM
    There is one thing I can't ever forgive UP for- closing the C&NW (ex-CGW) Oelwein shops. Sure, C&NW owned and ran them at the time, but we all know UP essentaly had control of the Northwestern in 1993 (when the shops closed). BTW, how much C&NW stock (if any) did UP own in 1984?
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    Posted by blhanel on Monday, July 31, 2006 12:59 PM
    //high-fives Jeff Yeah!! [yeah]Thumbs Up [tup]Sign - Ditto [#ditto]
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    Posted by n012944 on Monday, July 31, 2006 12:09 PM

     CopCarSS wrote:
    Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.

     

    I agree.  While I do think the copyright charges on the models suck, overall it a very good railroad that I like to watch.  The UP bashing, saying the same thing over and over, gets very old very quick.

     

    Bert

    An "expensive model collector"

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    Posted by NightrainAFD1987 on Monday, July 31, 2006 11:41 AM
     jeffhergert wrote:

      Just remember, you are lucky to still have an active rail line. What you hate and find boring today, you may miss tomorrow. 

    Jeff                           



    This hits home with me, cause I was young, and stupid....I took the old ATSF Yellowbonnets for granted, and now they are hardly around. I actually miss seeing them around nowdays
    Duff Long live the AT&SF
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    Posted by chad thomas on Monday, July 31, 2006 11:40 AM

    I noticed the ones who do the most UP bashing are so shallow they can't see past the paint. I agree, I am getting tired of all the UP bashing too.

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    Posted by CopCarSS on Monday, July 31, 2006 11:25 AM
    Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.

    -Chris
    West Chicago, IL
    Christopher May Fine Art Photography

    "In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams

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    Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, July 31, 2006 11:19 AM
         Bravo!  Jeff.  My only complaint with UP is that I'd have to drive an hour to see one of their trains.  When I did see one on vacation, it had  one lease locomotive, and one NS.

    Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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    A complaint box for those tired of always hearing about how bad the UP is.
    Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, July 31, 2006 10:52 AM

      Is anyone else getting tired of the tirade against the UP?  I know I am.  While I understand how some feel about losing their favorite railroad, that's just the way the business world is.  Back in 1965 industry leaders were expecting to consolidate into 2 to 4 major carriers.  The strong survive, the weaker get eaten up. I would guess the reason the UP name has survived is it's name recognition is probably greater, especially to non-railfans. At times in it's history, it was bankrupt. It took E. H. Harriman to get control and lay the foundation for which turned it into a major railroad institution that survives today.

      Is the UP perfect?  No. I should know, I work for them.  Do I complain about how they do things?  Sometimes.  My co-workers, the old heads at least, are former CNW. More than a few came from the Rock Island, before and after it's shut down. We even have one that started under CGW.  Do I hear complaints at work. Of course I do, but there are a few things my co-workers say is better under UP than CNW.  Ask any former CGW or MStL person who worked for the CNW.  You'll hear about the same complaints. It seems rarely is the new company looked upon as favorably as the company they replaced. Nostalgia is funny that way.

      The UP is a modern business.  It's not the UP of 30 years or more ago. I don't think any major business in any industry is like it once was.  They are all concerned more with the bottom line, making shareholder value the most important consideration.  Make business decisions that are good short term, but questionable long term.  There are a few times I think the UP does that, but I think every major company does.  

      The UP does try to be a good neighbor, believe it or not.  (I think they go too far sometimes, but that's just me) While you can't please everyone, they try to minimize the impact their operations affect the community.  I know over in the Chicago area they try not to have idling engines sit where the noise and exhaust bothers the NIMBYs. They may not always be successful.  At Bertram, you can't see it, but around the corner east of the east crossing in the little town (not the control point) is a sign. It says "Stop here for signal."  If we don't have a signal to let us by the control point, we are to stop at this sign. There is no block signal there, it's around the corner. We do have cab signals so, normally, we can tell when the signal clears allowing us to go.  We stop here to avoid idling next to houses.  Engineers have been written up for not complying, even one on a very small train that went up to the control point to wait where there are no houses within a good quarter mile. Company policy (and the Rules) is to always keep crossings clear, cutting for them if necessary. Sometimes crossings get blocked.  We try to avoid blocking crossings and generally know which ones are important to keep open and which aren't.  Sometimes we think we are clear and we aren't.  It's the major faux paus that get noticed, and rightly so but it happened because of the crew, not company policy.

      The UP hates railfans.  There are some employees who do, hate may be too strong a word.  Some of us ARE railrans.  I know of quite a few railfans and modellers in the ranks of train and engine men and even a few officials.  There are many who really are railfans, but don't realize it.  It comes with the job. Many don't always like the railroad, but they love railroading.  The hours can be bad, the carriers are always looking for ways to pay less in wages and benefits, but railroading still beats working for a living.

      In addition to this forum, I'm on a few yahoo group e-mail lists. One is the Ames, Iowa  area Railfans. Once a year, they sponser a 24 hour vigil over in Ames next to the UP. I have read that UP is awhere of them and has sent out a representative to discuss safety with them in setting this up.  I've read of a Cedar Rapids group that does about the same over near Bertram.  What the UP does hate is trespassing.  They don't want to be sued when some over zealous foamer gets hurt or worse.  Thirty years ago, I used to spend time at my local RI depot. I made some life-long friends there.  One agent tried to disuade me from chasing a railroad career, especially in the ranks.  When he couldn't he started teaching me the rules.  I credit him for turning me into more than just a fair-weather fan.  I started collecting rule books and time tables, learning how the railroads worked.  When I would visit him at one station, he had me do the operator's dutys those days. I copied line-ups, O Sed  trains, and one time copied and repeated train orders.  Back in that era I was able to get cab rides on the RI, MILW, BN. I visited interlocking towers at Des Moines (Short Line Jct) on the RI and Tama, IA on the CNW/MILW.  All of that, was tresspassing and frowned upon, especially the cab rides.  I have met trainmasters, road foremen, and even a superintendent once in depots.  In this day and age none of that would be possible.  It's not that railroad employees are less friendly, times have changed.  People are more lawsuit crazy, no longer accepting any personnal responsiblity.  Since 9/11 security has been a big concern.  It comes from the Government and filters down.  I'll be the first to say that much of this is just the powers that be looking like they are doing something.  Any dedicated terrorist is going to get the job done, eventually.  Any ploy actually foiled will more likely be by accident than planning. Even so, these are the times we live in. 

       Our paper work lists about 7 or 8 items to watch for.  Actions that a terrorist might use in planning something.  A few of them are activitities that railfans regularly and innocently engage in.  Being a railfan, unless a fan is doing something unsafe or trespassing, I don't worry too much.  Others turn in every thing, let the police or special agents sort it out. Maybe I'm wrong for cutting some slack.  Unless it's someone I know, how do I know they really are fans?

      I've done quite a bit of rambling here on the subject, so let me leave you with this.  My all time favorite railroad is the Rock Island.  Back in the late 70s the CNW was the enemy, not the people, the corporation.  I hated them. (Ironicly, I work former CNW on the UP.)  Although just like some here with the UP, I still ventured over and would wave to the crews and watch there trains.  Because of my dislike, and also because you don't realize how fast things can change,  I didn't take as many pictures as I should have. I missed some good opprotunities.  So go ahead and hate the UP, it's colors, it's trains, whatever.  Just remember, you are lucky to still have an active rail line. What you hate and find boring today, you may miss tomorrow. 

    Jeff                           

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