Is anyone else getting tired of the tirade against the UP? I know I am. While I understand how some feel about losing their favorite railroad, that's just the way the business world is. Back in 1965 industry leaders were expecting to consolidate into 2 to 4 major carriers. The strong survive, the weaker get eaten up. I would guess the reason the UP name has survived is it's name recognition is probably greater, especially to non-railfans. At times in it's history, it was bankrupt. It took E. H. Harriman to get control and lay the foundation for which turned it into a major railroad institution that survives today.
Is the UP perfect? No. I should know, I work for them. Do I complain about how they do things? Sometimes. My co-workers, the old heads at least, are former CNW. More than a few came from the Rock Island, before and after it's shut down. We even have one that started under CGW. Do I hear complaints at work. Of course I do, but there are a few things my co-workers say is better under UP than CNW. Ask any former CGW or MStL person who worked for the CNW. You'll hear about the same complaints. It seems rarely is the new company looked upon as favorably as the company they replaced. Nostalgia is funny that way.
The UP is a modern business. It's not the UP of 30 years or more ago. I don't think any major business in any industry is like it once was. They are all concerned more with the bottom line, making shareholder value the most important consideration. Make business decisions that are good short term, but questionable long term. There are a few times I think the UP does that, but I think every major company does.
The UP does try to be a good neighbor, believe it or not. (I think they go too far sometimes, but that's just me) While you can't please everyone, they try to minimize the impact their operations affect the community. I know over in the Chicago area they try not to have idling engines sit where the noise and exhaust bothers the NIMBYs. They may not always be successful. At Bertram, you can't see it, but around the corner east of the east crossing in the little town (not the control point) is a sign. It says "Stop here for signal." If we don't have a signal to let us by the control point, we are to stop at this sign. There is no block signal there, it's around the corner. We do have cab signals so, normally, we can tell when the signal clears allowing us to go. We stop here to avoid idling next to houses. Engineers have been written up for not complying, even one on a very small train that went up to the control point to wait where there are no houses within a good quarter mile. Company policy (and the Rules) is to always keep crossings clear, cutting for them if necessary. Sometimes crossings get blocked. We try to avoid blocking crossings and generally know which ones are important to keep open and which aren't. Sometimes we think we are clear and we aren't. It's the major faux paus that get noticed, and rightly so but it happened because of the crew, not company policy.
The UP hates railfans. There are some employees who do, hate may be too strong a word. Some of us ARE railrans. I know of quite a few railfans and modellers in the ranks of train and engine men and even a few officials. There are many who really are railfans, but don't realize it. It comes with the job. Many don't always like the railroad, but they love railroading. The hours can be bad, the carriers are always looking for ways to pay less in wages and benefits, but railroading still beats working for a living.
In addition to this forum, I'm on a few yahoo group e-mail lists. One is the Ames, Iowa area Railfans. Once a year, they sponser a 24 hour vigil over in Ames next to the UP. I have read that UP is awhere of them and has sent out a representative to discuss safety with them in setting this up. I've read of a Cedar Rapids group that does about the same over near Bertram. What the UP does hate is trespassing. They don't want to be sued when some over zealous foamer gets hurt or worse. Thirty years ago, I used to spend time at my local RI depot. I made some life-long friends there. One agent tried to disuade me from chasing a railroad career, especially in the ranks. When he couldn't he started teaching me the rules. I credit him for turning me into more than just a fair-weather fan. I started collecting rule books and time tables, learning how the railroads worked. When I would visit him at one station, he had me do the operator's dutys those days. I copied line-ups, O Sed trains, and one time copied and repeated train orders. Back in that era I was able to get cab rides on the RI, MILW, BN. I visited interlocking towers at Des Moines (Short Line Jct) on the RI and Tama, IA on the CNW/MILW. All of that, was tresspassing and frowned upon, especially the cab rides. I have met trainmasters, road foremen, and even a superintendent once in depots. In this day and age none of that would be possible. It's not that railroad employees are less friendly, times have changed. People are more lawsuit crazy, no longer accepting any personnal responsiblity. Since 9/11 security has been a big concern. It comes from the Government and filters down. I'll be the first to say that much of this is just the powers that be looking like they are doing something. Any dedicated terrorist is going to get the job done, eventually. Any ploy actually foiled will more likely be by accident than planning. Even so, these are the times we live in.
Our paper work lists about 7 or 8 items to watch for. Actions that a terrorist might use in planning something. A few of them are activitities that railfans regularly and innocently engage in. Being a railfan, unless a fan is doing something unsafe or trespassing, I don't worry too much. Others turn in every thing, let the police or special agents sort it out. Maybe I'm wrong for cutting some slack. Unless it's someone I know, how do I know they really are fans?
I've done quite a bit of rambling here on the subject, so let me leave you with this. My all time favorite railroad is the Rock Island. Back in the late 70s the CNW was the enemy, not the people, the corporation. I hated them. (Ironicly, I work former CNW on the UP.) Although just like some here with the UP, I still ventured over and would wave to the crews and watch there trains. Because of my dislike, and also because you don't realize how fast things can change, I didn't take as many pictures as I should have. I missed some good opprotunities. So go ahead and hate the UP, it's colors, it's trains, whatever. Just remember, you are lucky to still have an active rail line. What you hate and find boring today, you may miss tomorrow.
Jeff
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
I noticed the ones who do the most UP bashing are so shallow they can't see past the paint. I agree, I am getting tired of all the UP bashing too.
jeffhergert wrote: Just remember, you are lucky to still have an active rail line. What you hate and find boring today, you may miss tomorrow. Jeff
Just remember, you are lucky to still have an active rail line. What you hate and find boring today, you may miss tomorrow.
CopCarSS wrote:Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.
I agree. While I do think the copyright charges on the models suck, overall it a very good railroad that I like to watch. The UP bashing, saying the same thing over and over, gets very old very quick.
Bert
An "expensive model collector"
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
There is nothing at all wrong with the UP.
I like them...Always have!
dingoix wrote:There is one thing I can't ever forgive UP for- closing the C&NW (ex-CGW) Oelwein shops. Sure, C&NW owned and ran them at the time, but we all know UP essentaly had control of the Northwestern in 1993 (when the shops closed). BTW, how much C&NW stock (if any) did UP own in 1984?
From the C&NWHS website-
Well said Jeff. I too grew up on the U.P.'s Marysville, KS. Sub and had my very first cab ride in a GP30. I remember the days when I would see the U50C's, DD35B's, GP30B's and GP9B's. I was a little kid but, I still remember seeing the St. Joseph, MO local come through Home, KS with the above units in ABA or ABBA consists.
It amazes me how some of the members on this forum are never happy with what U.P. does. Especially, with the heritiage units. I mean, yeah, they're not going to look like the original paint schemes for the previous railroads but, just use some imagination when you look at them. Because you never know what paint job MKT, MoP or WP would of had if they were still around.
I'm not quite sure I understand the royalties for putting the UP logo on models. I know Kleenex was quite upset when "kleenex" became common usage for facial tissue and their brandname was in jeopardy, but I don't see how UP could be hurt by models - nobody is going to refer to trains as Yupes and it's free advertising.
jeffhergert wrote: Is anyone else getting tired of the tirade against the UP?
Is anyone else getting tired of the tirade against the UP?
YES!! I am sick and tired of all the UP bashing. SP, DRGW, CNW, MOPAC, WP, etc. are gone. GET USED TO IT!! BTW, Lord Atmo, I'm sure the crew that had that incident would just "love" your signature.
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Lord Atmo wrote: CopCarSS wrote:Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.after reading my rants everywhere, you should know exactly why... not getting any deeper than that.enr2099, read the text next time. it says "great job with those remotes". REMOTES! REMOTE CONTROLLED LOCOMOTIVE! there was NOBODY INSIDE!
Locomotives are not sentient beings. Even with RCO, someone has to be running it. Even if the RCO unit 'got away' from the crew, as can happen, I'm not sure I'd want to see that sig day in and day out if I was on that crew.
And that's the point.
Isn't spewing hatred for the UP much akin to bashing any sitting President, the Yankees, The Donald, MicroSoft, SUV owners, oil companies or any other large, easy, megabuck target?
Top five reasons for dissing Union Pacific:
1.) Jealousy
2.) Envy
3.) Jealousy
4.) Envy
5.) Jealousy
The railroad. And a derailment is the railroads fault, but it will go to different departments of the railroad, such as engineering, mechanical etc...
I dont mind UP, in fact, they have some darn nice crew members.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
wctransfer wrote:Yes I am, VERY sick of it. Too many people love to be unhappy now adays! And Max, Im not sure what the UP does, but the BNSF has a remote control operator IN the cab. And obviously a switchman on the ground. So you dont know if anybody was inside or not! And your still insulting the person who was operating the remote. UP had nothing to do with the derailment themselves, the controller did though! Alec
If you have an engineer in the cab, why would you need the remote control?
I'm not RCO qualified, but from where I sit, it's been good. And so has UP (I'm not sure things would have been the same under CNW as they are now, and that, in my opinion as an employee of both, is positive on the whole).
As for your question about the two-man remote crew, Alec, consider the following scenario. Crew goes into a track, one guy on the ground, another in the cab. The guy on the ground is controlling the movement. He'll couple up the track, moving the engine as he needs to, and walking the length of the track, making joints, coupling the air hoses as necessary, whatever. He is assured of his own safety because he, and only he, is controlling the movement. Then when the track is coupled, he'll "pitch" control of the engine to the guy in the cab, who will, when it's OK, pull the cars out onto the lead, lining the switches as necessary. The original ground man will ride the cut out, tell the cab guy when to stop, then "catch" control again and double to another track, and possibly begin coupling again. This is a job that would have taken two switchmen even in pre-remote days.
Back to the question at hand: as an employee, I see the foulups, and know that UP has had to go back to previous practices that worked better, on more occasions than one. And, in spite of all of the "arrogance" we hear about, they do what's necessary. We also see what happens when the system is clogged, and nothing can move. But if fingers can be pointed, it's usually at an individual, not because the railroad itself is fouled up. And, on a few occasions, such as when I was hosting some Forum "guests" a couple of months ago, UP does things right--the sight of freight after freight, blowing through DeKalb at track speed, coupled with two flawless performances of UP dispatrchers and crews operating Metra trains, is enough to make anyone proud.
Thank you, Jeff.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
BNSFrailfan wrote:Who takes the blame when a Train stalls on a hill and is blocking crossings?
That situation is a bit different. The situations I meant were ones where you know your going to be stopped for whatever reason.
If you're stopped because of trouble and can't move that's a bit different. The laws allow for crossings to be blocked longer than 10 minutes (or whatever the local time limit is).
If you're stalled it depends what the circumstances are. If you are going to wait for someone to help you over the hill and it will be quite a while before help arrives, if safe, you could possibly back down off the crossing, or at least back enough of the train that the engines could pull some cars up to cut it. If you're going to double the hill, and the portion you're leaving is on the crossing, there isn't much anyone can do, unless you can back the train down, at least to where the cut is made. If it isn't safe to do that, then blocking the crossing is no one's fault.
If I stalled on Blair hill, I would probably say it's safer to leave it blocked until someone pushes you over it. It's a judgement call and if I can't get a law officer or company officer to agree, I'd have to take the blame.
The title of this thread was obviously a virtual razzberry to my previous one, so allow me to retort:
Grow. A. Backbone.
Why does everybody hate the UP so much?! I'm not even sure that that was the accepted premise. A better question might be: Why did Charles Schulz feature Beethoven as Schroeder's preferred composer in the Peanuts comic strip? B/c he was the most famous composer. Why is the crocodile one of the most feared species on the planet? B/c he's survived the longest, and is therefore the most "successful" living species today. Why did I make a "UP complaint box"? Because, as the biggest Class I, and the only one (as far as I know) that makes TV commercials, you guys are the face of railroading, whether you like it or not. Speaking for myself, I love all railroads, and I want to see railfanning and great pictures and photo-ops continue. I have no particular knife out against the UP. I would never engage in the kind of "terrorist" acts that the UP (and other Class I's too) say they are now afraid of. But the biggest kid on the block, as the most visible, can expect constructive criticism. That's all I was trying to promote. By all means, let's hear more about BNSF, NS, CSX, and the other Class Is. Bring it on!!
Riprap
I agree with the initial post. UP is a profitable company. It is a good example of an industry that uses 100 year old technology to make more money than washed up 20 somethings in the internet boom of the late 90's. They have done a lot to forward the industry into the current century, and I am sure that they will be around for a long time to come. Yes there have been troubles, but what company hasn't had them?
If the biggest complaint is the paint job then they must be doing everything else right. Where do I invest?
If employees are unhappy with the way things are run, why not quite and work for BNSF? Or file greviences with the union? Or take up coloring? I hear the same things at work day after day about how somebody should do this or that or that someone is worthless or worth a whole lot more. Usually the ones complaining are the ones not doing any work to begin with. I don't know if this is the same in railroading but it is a broken record in construction. If they are good workers with complaints then I listen. If they complain after a whole day of patting themselves on the back then I actively work for a dismissal.
I have to agree with Chris, and the others, it really gets tiresome- all this negativity. The railroads we enjoy and follow are all different, but similar in the job they do. Here in SE Kansas we have the UP, BNSF, KCS and Watco's lines; just about every flavor of railfanning you would want is available within a tollerable driving distance. These railraods are reflected in the most obvious way in their equipment. They are in fact a reflection of the men and women who keep them moving by just doing their jobs, and doing them well.
In fact, on saturday we are going train watching in Strong City on the BNSF transcon, and sunday,the wife and I are driving to Pittsburg, to ride behind the 475, a Southern Pacific Mike, operated by LASTA, out of Louisiana which was enroute over the KCS back home; this week-end it will pull a half dozen public trips for railfans over the SK&O. The first steam in Pittsburg in 60 years. It was acomplished by the local railfan club, Heart of the Heartlands, and facilitated by a Watco employee and railfan, who saw an opportunity, and was in a position to help it happen.
Thanks, John!
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