A complaint box for those tired of always hearing about how bad the UP is.

[Anonymous]

Who takes the blame when a Train stalls on a hill and is blocking crossings?

  That situation is a bit different. The situations I meant were ones where you know your going to be stopped for whatever reason.

  If you're stopped because of trouble and can't move that's a bit different.  The laws allow for crossings to be blocked longer than 10 minutes (or whatever the local time limit is).

  If you're stalled it depends what the circumstances are. If you are going to wait for someone to help you over the hill and it will be quite a while before help arrives, if safe, you could possibly back down off the crossing, or at least back enough of the train that the engines could pull some cars up to cut it.  If you're going to double the hill, and the portion you're leaving is on the crossing, there isn't much anyone can do, unless you can back the train down, at least to where the cut is made. If it isn't safe to do that, then blocking the crossing is no one's fault.

  If I stalled on Blair hill, I would probably say it's safer to leave it blocked until someone pushes you over it.  It's a judgement call and if I can't get a law officer or company officer to agree, I'd have to take the blame. 

 Jeff  

   

Ok ok I got it now. Luckly for the UP they haven't had anymore problems with Trains stalling. If a crew already knows that their Train is way to much for their Power to handle. Then why doesn't the Trainmaster or yardmaster give the Train enough Power to make the trip? And not just the UP is at falt too. Other Railroads do the same things and not just the UP. The CNW was very stupid too. Like many years ago I watched a Westbound CNW Ore Train come through Blair With 3 SD40-2 on the head end. And sure enough as thay where climing the hill the Train broke a knuckle right on the hill. It was stalled for two hours. There was no other Train going west for some time. So the CNW Dispatcher told the crew to cut half the Train and haul it to Kennard and go back for the other half. My Question is. If the crew knows if thier not going to make the hill.....then why risk it. It's way beyond me. UP still did the same thing the CNW did. The one thing I have learned is. DC Motors do suck on heave Trains. If there was a very heavy Grain Train pulling the hill. Most likely it would stall. I also have seem many time with very heave Grain Trains that have AC instead of DC. The AC Motors do a very nice job of pulling heavy Trains over a hill. I have seen that. Kudos to AC. But I must say that the UP has gotten much better of not have Trains stalled on the hill that much. And one more thing. UP would do so much better job if they where to go in and cut that stupid hill too. It needs it. Allan.

[enr2099]

enr2099, read the text next time. it says "great job with those remotes". REMOTES! REMOTE CONTROLLED LOCOMOTIVE! there was NOBODY INSIDE!

 

There is still a crew running the remote. 2 conductors, I know because we use the same system at CN!

[enr2099]

 

      If you have an engineer in the cab, why would you need the remote control?

 

No engineer, 2 conductors. One person protects the point and one does the switching. Some RCO operations have designated pull backs where both men can be on the ground switching.

[WP 3020]

Well written, Jeff. One other point I'll bring out again is that I still don't understand how any railfan can hate the only railroad that maintains it's own (mammoth) steam locomotives, and spends quite a bit of time running them all over their system. It just boggles my mind.

 

I agree.  While I do think the copyright charges on the models suck, overall it a very good railroad that I like to watch.  The UP bashing, saying the same thing over and over, gets very old very quick.

 

Bert

Jeff, one reason I can think of (and Iv'e posted this before) is that they (Youpee) maintain a policy to not allow "foreign" steam locos to run on its rails (except when other RRs have trackage rights over them). Even when those "foreign" steam locos (such as xSP 4449) are native to those paticular tracks (while other RRs like BNSF do allow them).
To those of you, like Bert, maybee people bash the Youpee is because, seeing the same Youpee paint and patches over and over, no matter were you go, gets old very quick.
We liked Youpee back when it was foreign power.

[james saunders]

I don't get it...

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business. they have to much yellow in their paint scheme? thats heritage. (IMO, its an attractive scheme, especially the flag units) I guess if CN bought BNSF, CN would be hated for buying BNSF who has (probably) more railroads in it's heritage than UP ever will.

If you don't like UP fine, But don't bring your dribble here.



long live UP!

Oh yeah, Whatever UP's actual reasons for painting the heritage units is, at least they are trying to preserve the heritage of the railroads absorbed into it, and the fact they keep some steamers and a DD40AX in operational condition is exceptional. Well done UP.

[Anonymous]

In addition to the steam program, UP Yellow and the winged herald date back to the start of the diesel age, so they are really part of UP's heritage as well for fans of the UP. As far as the old C&NW, I remember riding the old C&NW North commuter line when there were so many vertical dips in the track over the viaducts, one almost needed a seatbelt to avoid hitting the ceiling. From what I can see on the west line, the pink ballast is still there, the left-hand running is still there, but the track and ballast are in great shape, there's plenty of modern power, and no shortage of traffic. I'd guess there's at least a few former C&NW employees who don't miss the tight budgets of the past. Sure I miss the old semaphores, but Class I railroads are becoming more and more alike.

[chad thomas]

I don't get it...

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business. they have to much yellow in their paint scheme? thats heritage. (IMO, its an attractive scheme, especially the flag units) I guess if CN bought BNSF, CN would be hated for buying BNSF who has (probably) more railroads in it's heritage than UP ever will.

Well, there is a little more to it then that. I supose there is always a degree of resentment when a RR buys (or merges with) the RR you grew up with and or admired. But with the UP it's not just loosing the old paint scheme but usually a change in culture. A change many didn't like. With the SP the culture was like the 'good old boy' system (as probably was the CNW too) and the railroad was a very friendly place, which made the whole railroad very accessable for railfans. The UP culture is more like the military. And they run there railroad in a militant fashion. So when UP took controll of the SP and tried to run the SPs good old boys with UPs militant style it not only ruffled a lot of feathers but it ground the system into a meltdown. The two cultures clashed. The UP in there arrogance (another reason some don't like the UP) thought they could make changes and have the SP boys do it there way. They wouldn't listen to the SP boys that knew certain things didn't work that way. To a large degree the SP boys quit talking to a def ear and let the UP boys 'crash there car' so to speak. The worst part of the whole thing is they didn't learn there lesson from the CNW merger/meltdown just a couple years before and they let history repeat itself. Between that and there habbit of comming along with a wrecking ball in one hand and a paint brush in the other hand when they take over a railroad didn't exactly win over the hearts of the masses. Especially here in California were traditionaly UP had very little presence and now there vast network is almost entirely on railroads they took over (Before the 80s there only line in California was the Salt Lake-San Piedro route, and almost half of that was on AT&SF track rights).

Of course those arn't the only reason some don't like UP. Some just simply don't like the paint. Some are just angry that UP is trying to protect there copyrights. Pretty shallow reasons to hate a railroad if you ask me. I find it hard to understand how someone can be a railfan and hate a railroad.

I have always been a SP fan. I miss the SP but I don't spend my time whineing about it. I am a UP fan by default now. Change is constant (although rather slow) with railroads and you just have to go with it. They are not in the bussiness of pleasing railfans, but you got to give the UP credit for the bones they throw us. How many other railroads have a steam program? How many others have a heritage unit program?

 

[Train 284]

I have no problems with the UP. Like you said it is a modern business. C'mon guys it is the 21st century not the good ol' days anymore! Life is time and money (and trains). Some people on this forum get a little out of hand about how much they hate UP. I have one thing to say......GET OVER IT! Nothing you do or say will change how UP does their thing. NO ONE I REPEAT NO ONE wants to hear you guys whine on about how UP did this or UP is patching all the old locos. I know the pathing sucks, but lets just move on ok?

[Anonymous]

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business.

That's fine. But did UP assimilate YOUR favorite railroad?

 

I've noticed that most of you who don't think anybody should hate UP hasn't had their towns rail service DIE because of UP. They haven't had the excellent locomoitve shops in your area closed by UP. Classic buildings that COULD'VE stayed up were tore down by UP.Apparantly, those that haven't been hurt by UP don't think anybody else could be.

 

How many other railroads have a steam program?

NS had one until 1994. They had the N&W Class J 4-8-4 #611, N&W Class A 2-6-6-4 #1218, and the SOU 2-8-2 #4501

[chad thomas]

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business.

That's fine. But did UP assimilate YOUR favorite railroad?

 

I've noticed that most of you who don't think anybody should hate UP hasn't had their towns rail service DIE because of UP. They haven't had the excellent locomoitve shops in your area closed by UP. Classic buildings that COULD'VE stayed up were tore down by UP.Apparantly, those that haven't been hurt by UP don't think anybody else could be.

 

How many other railroads have a steam program?

NS had one until 1994. They had the N&W Class J 4-8-4 #611, N&W Class A 2-6-6-4 #1218, and the SOU 2-8-2 #4501

 

Well my Modoc line was abandoned and scrapped and that didn't make me hate the UP. Perhaps you should be thankfull the UP didn't abandon your line(s) all together.

And yes, we al know about the NS steam program, but it's gone, UPs is still around.

[n012944]

To me seeing a train, no matter what railroad, is better than seeing no train at all.  Again I don't like the copyright thing, but I do understand why they are doing it.  I think people are just so into "their" thing, that they hate anything that replaces it.  Think about all the great pictures that were lost in the 40's/50's because  many people would not take pictures of anything but steam.  They hated diesels because they replaced their beloved steam.  I think the hate towards the UP is along those same lines.

 

Bert 

[CNW 6000]

Here's my thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em.

I grew up next to the CNW mainline.  I missed them when the FRVR, WC, and eventually the CN took over.  UP bought CNW.  I know it's not going to come back.  It would make me so happy to see, in person, even one running CNW engine in original paint on a train.  Do I hate the UP?  No.  Would I railfan them?  No, probably not.  Is it because they bought CNW?  No.  Does that make me a bad person because I'm not a huge fan of the UP and occasionally express a wish to see one engine in CNW livery?  I think it's almost a double standard to say anyone who hates the UP isn't a railfan, or shouldn't express that opinon.  That's just what people are saying: opinoins!  You don't have to agree with them, or read them (some obvious ones anyway) for that matter.  Some may go overboard but telling them they can't have or express their opinion is, IMHO, as 'wrong' as telling them they're 'wrong' to have their opions.  Finally, taking constructive criticism is part of life.  Learn how to do that without getting upset and life gets a little easier.  Again, you can choose to accept it or ignore it. 

[Lord Atmo]

i'm moving on. and i have much thinking to do

[james saunders]

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business.

That's fine. But did UP assimilate YOUR favorite railroad?

 

No, they merged (SP), but I don't hate them for that. if UP hadn't bought them, who knows what would have happened.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I didn't make this clear but, I don't hate UP. Sure I'm mad for many of the things they have done, but they are trains. OTOH, I would never go out of my way to see a UP train (unless its the 844 or 3985) That's just how I feel about them. And, I like any railroads that have GP38-2s, so I'm obligated to somewhat like UP for that fact.

[james saunders]

Maybe I didn't make this clear but, I don't hate UP. Sure I'm mad for many of the things they have done, but they are trains. OTOH, I would never go out of my way to see a UP train (unless its the 844 or 3985) That's just how I feel about them. And, I like any railroads that have GP38-2s, so I'm obligated to somewhat like UP for that fact.

You like them GP38-2s as well? well we do like something the same

[Anonymous]

I have got to be one of the biggest GP38-2 fans, yet I model 1968. That's not to say a few aren't gonna sneak on the layout GP35s can almost substitute for 38-2s considering the year I model. But they're not the same.

[james saunders]

I have got to be one of the biggest GP38-2 fans, yet I model 1968. That's not to say a few aren't gonna sneak on the layout GP35s can almost substitute for 38-2s considering the year I model. But they're not the same.

thats one sharp scheme you got there.

I got 2 Geeps, and looking at getting 2 more Proto of course

[Anonymous]

I've got 6 Geeps- 2 Spectrum, 1 Atlas, 3 Athearns.

[CNW 6000]

I have 12 -9's, 2 -8's, 2 SD 60's, 2 GP 50's, and one GP 35.  All Athearn.  Two of the -9's and one of the -8's are patched UP units.

[StillGrande]

 Because, as the biggest Class I, and the only one (as far as I know) that makes TV commercials,

Norfolk Southern runs commercials all the time around here.  Heck, living in DC you see and hear commercials aimed at Congress for all kinds of stuff (the ones for defense contractors are always interesting!). 

Hardly inspires anyone to launch a tirade against them. 

Norfolk Southern also dropped the ball the day of the Conrail split.  They were also described as having a more military style of management than Conrail's (and CSX's for that matter) laid back style.  Still don't hear tirades against them.  NS also managed to work out the problems and is considered by some to be the best class one running this year.  UP seems to be working out the problems too.  No plan survives contact with the enemy.  No merger plan is perfect. 

I still haven't gotten over the Lake Erie & Western taking over the Fort Wayne, Muncie & Louisville Road (1890).

[Anonymous]

Speaking of how bad the UP is... An African American man who lives in my building told that in the 1960s when his uncle was a cook on their passenger trains, he was let go one day out of the blue. Let go after 29 years of service which happened to be 1 year short of him qualifying to claim his pension. It turned out that UP was doing this to many of their african american employees and a class action lawsuit was filed which the plaintiffs won (thank god). They all recieved the pensions they were promised as part of the settlement. I don't think there are any other railroads that are blameless in regards to racism, but I thought this was an especially low thing to do. I'm an Oregon boy and maybe because of it I wish SP had swallowed up UP when they had the chance in the 1960s.

[Anonymous]

Luke, I hadn't heard that the SP ever had a chance to swallow up the UP. Any details?

Riprap

[Lord Atmo]

UP has done some work on the Altoona sub trackage around here. fixing track and replacing rails in some areas. if all goes well, i hope they'll get some new customers in the area. and that means more freight to move, and that means more trains to move the freight, and that means TRAINS IN THE DAYTIME!!!

bring 'em in, UP

[Anonymous]

I thought SP actually bought UP and changed the name to UP

[bobwilcox]

They don't like UP because it bought another railroad? thats called business.

That's fine. But did UP assimilate YOUR favorite railroad?

 

I've noticed that most of you who don't think anybody should hate UP hasn't had their towns rail service DIE because of UP. They haven't had the excellent locomoitve shops in your area closed by UP. Classic buildings that COULD'VE stayed up were tore down by UP.Apparantly, those that haven't been hurt by UP don't think anybody else could be.

 

How many other railroads have a steam program?

NS had one until 1994. They had the N&W Class J 4-8-4 #611, N&W Class A 2-6-6-4 #1218, and the SOU 2-8-2 #4501

 

We, the Northwestern, were trying to get out of  Oelwien in the late 1970s.  We were disapointed it took so long.

[WP 3020]

I don't get it...

If you don't like UP fine, But don't bring your dribble here.

That sounds close-minded to me. It sounds like you want to say whatever you will and call it a fact without having any opposition or fact checking to challange your (or our) inaccuracies. If you want to make sure your addition is correct you have to do some subtraction.
Anyone who has posted that someone "hates UP" and are thinking of me, they're flat out wrong. I have a problem with that ( I don't want to be missquoted and rather not be missunderstood ) and would want the chance correct a fault. Sure, there are some things I don't like (and have stated them elsewhere) about them, but I never said I hate them. Youpee used to send their calendars to my Grandpa (when I was young and he was alive) because he did something for them in the '20s or '30s. I liked the yellow and gray, but back then there had silver trucks and the top of the nose was green. I like the wings, but liked them better on a verranda or 8500 gass turbine. When you don't get to see something, you want to see, very often it's a treat when you do see it and it means something. But when you see it all the time it looses meaning and might become sickening. It just sucks for me, and some others, to go someplace that used to special, because that is where we get to see Youpee trains. But now there is nothing special about it because we can see the same thing at home
I like GP38s and 38-2s just fine, but I like them better in scarlet and gray.

[CopCarSS]

Anyone who has posted that someone "hates UP" and are thinking of me, they're flat out wrong. I have a problem with that ( I don't want to be missquoted and rather not be missunderstood ) and would want the chance correct a fault. Sure, there are some things I don't like (and have stated them elsewhere) about them, but I never said I hate them.

It's funny that you don't hate the UP, given the poor taste of your third quote in your signature...

[TimChgo9]

Well, let me see.  Since I am a train photographer, I really don't have any problems, with any railroads. Why? because all I am doing is shooting pictures. Yes, I have heard plenty about the UP, and how alot of people don't like them.  I grew up about 1 mile south of the C&NW's Proviso Yard, and my brother and I would make occasional trips up there to watch the goings on.  We never stayed long, because the CNW cops, or special agents, would eventually make there way to where we were (on the platform of the commuter station that was there) and shoo us out, just a couple of kids watching trains, and either are railroad employee, or a Special Agent would tell us to "get lost"... Since the UP has taken it over, they don't mind much, if I am there with my kids, and watching what goes on in the yard, and shooting pictures of trains that come through on Rockwell I and II. In fact, one day, while watching trains, a helpful crew member came over, just to say hi to my small kids, and ask me how the shooting was going.  He then proceeded to tell me that if I waited about 15 minutes, there was going to be several trains both east and west bound on Rockwell I and II. His train wasn't going to be moving until they cleared up the congestion, and lo and behold, about 12 minutes after our conversation, the first of 5 freight trains came through, all in the space of about 45 minutes or so. 

Is UP a giant? Yes, they are... do I wish I could still see some CNW livery... of course, I loved the green and yellow... but, time goes on and things change.  Do I think UP is the embodiment of evil?  Heck no.. they are a business doing what they do, that's all it is about.  I will only hate the UP when they stop running trains..... 

[WP 3020]

Anyone who has posted that someone "hates UP" and are thinking of me, they're flat out wrong. I have a problem with that ( I don't want to be missquoted and rather not be missunderstood ) and would want the chance correct a fault. Sure, there are some things I don't like (and have stated them elsewhere) about them, but I never said I hate them.

It's funny that you don't hate the UP, given the poor taste of your third quote in your signature...

Does that quote say anything about hate?
The quote maybe in poor taste, to some, but it has been said by quite a few people (Youpee customers, BNSF crews, Amtrak crews, Youpee crews, model railroaders, railfans, and some people who think highly of the Youpee), and the quote is sometimes true. When you don't spell youpee ponetically it is allways true. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I will correct it right away!