light rail definition

[kenneo]

Mookie --- There was, once and maybe still is, a steam line (read freight rialroad) that runs directly from Omaha to Lincoln, and my memory wants to say CBQ (read BNSF). If that is the case, the costs would be very much lower using that line with AMTK equipment. The TALGO would fit right in. They are used here on the AMTRAK Cascades and they are right fine trains.

[Mookie]

thank you -

I know they are batting this around and the paper always says "light rail" - but it sounds very expensive and I can't imagine it would be well thought out - as is par for the course in at least Lincoln. We have had so many great ideas that we got into up to our necks and then dropped them, so while I think it is a nice idea, just not for us. Don't think we will get people off I-80 to ride it.

Mookie

[Mookie]

thank you -

I know they are batting this around and the paper always says "light rail" - but it sounds very expensive and I can't imagine it would be well thought out - as is par for the course in at least Lincoln. We have had so many great ideas that we got into up to our necks and then dropped them, so while I think it is a nice idea, just not for us. Don't think we will get people off I-80 to ride it.

Mookie

[mudchicken]

Head Mookie In Charge:

No, they don't have to be electric. Common terminology is "Commuter Rail". If you have seen Colorado/ Rader Railcar's DMU demonstrator. (The red & yellow updated RDC with crash protection) The obsession with electric railcars means a heck of a lot of cash spent on catenary. (Fairy Tale #1 that it's less polluting really means all that you are doing is moving the point source of the emissions + Fairy Tale # 2 that the electricity leaving the power station is the same amount of electricty that gets to the electric motor off the catenary theory creates the myth that light rail HAS to be electric.)
Add that to the non-railroad trained engineers and consultants singing the virtues of electric light rail and you have the messed-up transportation circus-world we're in currently.

Off of the battered old soapbox.

[mudchicken]

Head Mookie In Charge:

No, they don't have to be electric. Common terminology is "Commuter Rail". If you have seen Colorado/ Rader Railcar's DMU demonstrator. (The red & yellow updated RDC with crash protection) The obsession with electric railcars means a heck of a lot of cash spent on catenary. (Fairy Tale #1 that it's less polluting really means all that you are doing is moving the point source of the emissions + Fairy Tale # 2 that the electricity leaving the power station is the same amount of electricty that gets to the electric motor off the catenary theory creates the myth that light rail HAS to be electric.)
Add that to the non-railroad trained engineers and consultants singing the virtues of electric light rail and you have the messed-up transportation circus-world we're in currently.

Off of the battered old soapbox.

[CShaveRR]

I haven't heard of non-electric light rail systems; I suspect that any vehicle that contains an engine strong enough to propel itself would be too heavy for light rail.

I don't know, Sis...that Omaha-Lincoln proposal sounds a little strange to me. Sixty miles might be doable for a light-rail line, but I'm visualizing light rail as something that makes fairly frequent stops, and doesn't really offer a speed advantage, except perhaps during rush hours. I'm sure there are places to stop between Omaha and Lincoln, and don't doubt that a transit route could be justified. But I'd suspect that it might be better served by non-electrified commuter rail, using equipment like the new Colorado Railcar vehicle. Electrification is expensive, and if you're building a right-of-way anyway, I'd build it so it could handle heavier, faster stuff.

[CShaveRR]

I haven't heard of non-electric light rail systems; I suspect that any vehicle that contains an engine strong enough to propel itself would be too heavy for light rail.

I don't know, Sis...that Omaha-Lincoln proposal sounds a little strange to me. Sixty miles might be doable for a light-rail line, but I'm visualizing light rail as something that makes fairly frequent stops, and doesn't really offer a speed advantage, except perhaps during rush hours. I'm sure there are places to stop between Omaha and Lincoln, and don't doubt that a transit route could be justified. But I'd suspect that it might be better served by non-electrified commuter rail, using equipment like the new Colorado Railcar vehicle. Electrification is expensive, and if you're building a right-of-way anyway, I'd build it so it could handle heavier, faster stuff.

[Mookie]

Ahem - Gentlemen, if I may interrupt with a question.

They want to build a light rail from Lincoln to Omaha - Lincoln being the home as I understand it. Can this only be electric? Mileage would be about 60 miles.

Jen

[Mookie]

Ahem - Gentlemen, if I may interrupt with a question.

They want to build a light rail from Lincoln to Omaha - Lincoln being the home as I understand it. Can this only be electric? Mileage would be about 60 miles.

Jen

[cabforward]

muddchickencoop,

you're 99.9% right.. one system near houston, tx, operated with transit bus frames using diesel engines that were converted to operate only on rail 1948-61.. from late 20s-1948, it was electric.. it was the last interurban system that was started in america..

the electric units did haul freight.. after conversion to diesel bus frames, only passengers were transported..

a city transit system that operated in houston used std. gauge, which is odd.. most cities that prefer no r.r. freight pass thru their downtown due to the noise and damage to street surfaces..

this allowed the interurban to use another system's trackage for a terminus and turn-around point..

[cabforward]

muddchickencoop,

you're 99.9% right.. one system near houston, tx, operated with transit bus frames using diesel engines that were converted to operate only on rail 1948-61.. from late 20s-1948, it was electric.. it was the last interurban system that was started in america..

the electric units did haul freight.. after conversion to diesel bus frames, only passengers were transported..

a city transit system that operated in houston used std. gauge, which is odd.. most cities that prefer no r.r. freight pass thru their downtown due to the noise and damage to street surfaces..

this allowed the interurban to use another system's trackage for a terminus and turn-around point..

[mudchicken]

Transportation Research Board Definition:

Light Rail Transit (LRT) is a metropolitan electric railway system characterized by its ability to operate single cars or short trains along exclusive rights of way at ground level, on aerial structures, in subways, or occasionally, in streets, and to board and discharge passengers at track or car-floor level.....

http://www.ggw.org/rrtc/info/lightrail.html

Freight Railroaders Daffynition: Expensive Toy Train

[mudchicken]

Transportation Research Board Definition:

Light Rail Transit (LRT) is a metropolitan electric railway system characterized by its ability to operate single cars or short trains along exclusive rights of way at ground level, on aerial structures, in subways, or occasionally, in streets, and to board and discharge passengers at track or car-floor level.....

http://www.ggw.org/rrtc/info/lightrail.html

Freight Railroaders Daffynition: Expensive Toy Train

[mudchicken]

CabForward/EngineBackward: interurbans WERE regulated common carriers of light construction that were connected to the freight system in many cases....

Light Rail Transit: An electric RAILWAY constructed in a street or private right of way to transport passengers in an urban environment. Operations generally consist of trolleys or light rail vehicles - Dictionary of Railway Track Terms/ Simmons Boardman 1990

[mudchicken]

CabForward/EngineBackward: interurbans WERE regulated common carriers of light construction that were connected to the freight system in many cases....

Light Rail Transit: An electric RAILWAY constructed in a street or private right of way to transport passengers in an urban environment. Operations generally consist of trolleys or light rail vehicles - Dictionary of Railway Track Terms/ Simmons Boardman 1990

[cabforward]

i dont know the definition, but every light-rail discussion i have read was about mass rail transit.. it likely excludes freight service, and may limit the miles of r-o-w from the primary hub..

i wonder if interurbans would be considered light rail today.. units were of a passenger car design, the distance covered could be a hundred + miles, and there was a small section for freight storage.. they probably had a weight limit of 80-125lbs.. many lines operated multi-unit sets..

any thoughts?

[cabforward]

i dont know the definition, but every light-rail discussion i have read was about mass rail transit.. it likely excludes freight service, and may limit the miles of r-o-w from the primary hub..

i wonder if interurbans would be considered light rail today.. units were of a passenger car design, the distance covered could be a hundred + miles, and there was a small section for freight storage.. they probably had a weight limit of 80-125lbs.. many lines operated multi-unit sets..

any thoughts?

[kenneo]

I don't have a defination for you, but if I remember correctly, it has ti do with the FRA buff standards. If less that 800,000 lbs buff, it is light and the equipment can be built much lighter (like European equipment) and there can be NO PHYSICAL CONNECTION to a real railroad. If there is that connection then the equipment must meet all FRA standards and then become "heavy".

I realize the above is not just what you are looking for, but perhaps it will help.

[kenneo]

I don't have a defination for you, but if I remember correctly, it has ti do with the FRA buff standards. If less that 800,000 lbs buff, it is light and the equipment can be built much lighter (like European equipment) and there can be NO PHYSICAL CONNECTION to a real railroad. If there is that connection then the equipment must meet all FRA standards and then become "heavy".

I realize the above is not just what you are looking for, but perhaps it will help.

[Anonymous]

I urgently need the definition of "light rail". I can't get the whole thing from the glossary for some reason. I seem to recall it in the magazine in the past year or so. Can someone please help?
Scott Powers

[Anonymous]

I urgently need the definition of "light rail". I can't get the whole thing from the glossary for some reason. I seem to recall it in the magazine in the past year or so. Can someone please help?
Scott Powers