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light rail definition

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 28, 2003 12:45 PM
Yes, they're planning a diesel-powered light rail...the Hudson-Bergen light rail line, on the original Camden & Amboy route in Joisey. But you all are missing the TRUE definition of "light rail": A system of tracks typically over-built for the service expected, heavily subsidized by some poor slobs in Idaho, for the enrichment of the political classes by the contractors' purchasing favors. [hence, the contractors are "lighter" after paying the politicals.] Note there is no mention of "break even", let alone "profit."
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 27, 2003 3:32 PM
Obviously, once a commuter rail is in place, Mudchicken suggested a DMU, you would hope the cities of Omaha and Lincoln bus transit systems would link. As it is I doubt whether Amtrak's California Zephyr service is enough, one daily in each direction is never enough. One, two, or three trainsets such as what Keeno suggested could possibly provide an hourly service, much better than any airliner I know of linking Omaha to Lincoln. When I think of light rail, as DART has, service is much more like a subway, every 5, 10, to 20 minutes. While light rail on streets is similar to a trolley, how many trolleys have you seen have 3 to 5 cars? How many buses have the sitting capacity of 3 to 5 light rail cars?
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 27, 2003 3:32 PM
Obviously, once a commuter rail is in place, Mudchicken suggested a DMU, you would hope the cities of Omaha and Lincoln bus transit systems would link. As it is I doubt whether Amtrak's California Zephyr service is enough, one daily in each direction is never enough. One, two, or three trainsets such as what Keeno suggested could possibly provide an hourly service, much better than any airliner I know of linking Omaha to Lincoln. When I think of light rail, as DART has, service is much more like a subway, every 5, 10, to 20 minutes. While light rail on streets is similar to a trolley, how many trolleys have you seen have 3 to 5 cars? How many buses have the sitting capacity of 3 to 5 light rail cars?
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Posted by cabforward on Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:42 AM
would appreciate details on houston metro.. is it in service now, where to? what is planned, where to?

can you believe new yorkers pronounce houston (YOU-ston) as HOW-ston??

the 'soho' district in new york means SOuth-of-HOu-ston..

COTTON BELT RUNS A

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Posted by cabforward on Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:42 AM
would appreciate details on houston metro.. is it in service now, where to? what is planned, where to?

can you believe new yorkers pronounce houston (YOU-ston) as HOW-ston??

the 'soho' district in new york means SOuth-of-HOu-ston..

COTTON BELT RUNS A

Blue Streak

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:36 PM
"shame-on"! brudda......
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:36 PM
"shame-on"! brudda......
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:26 PM
A shameless plug:

Lightrail in Ottawa:

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=OC%20Transpo

[:D][:D][:D][:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:26 PM
A shameless plug:

Lightrail in Ottawa:

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=OC%20Transpo

[:D][:D][:D][:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:19 PM
LIGHT RAIL IS JUST ANOTHER AND MODERN NAME FOR A TROLLEY.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 6:19 PM
LIGHT RAIL IS JUST ANOTHER AND MODERN NAME FOR A TROLLEY.
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Posted by Mookie on Friday, September 12, 2003 6:30 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

If Mookie has no kitty cat eyes,
then why one paw on the cake,
and one on the pies?
edSnake
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Mookie

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, September 12, 2003 6:30 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

If Mookie has no kitty cat eyes,
then why one paw on the cake,
and one on the pies?
edSnake
Don't need no personal data manager to keep track of life's important things!

Mookie

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, September 12, 2003 12:06 AM
If Mookie has no kitty cat eyes,
then why one paw on the cake,
and one on the pies?
edSnake

23 17 46 11

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, September 12, 2003 12:06 AM
If Mookie has no kitty cat eyes,
then why one paw on the cake,
and one on the pies?
edSnake

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!
[;)] That's a well trained dirty bird! .....Not happy until I go out and roll in the dirt prior to going to work!....Congrats on star #4!!!
I was so busy working on my acceptance speech, I totally missed it! Hmm..

Been one upped by a bird...and have a snake hot on my heels...Don't the railroads use names like - waterfall, pitter-patter, blue skies - instead they have muddy chickens, snakes, hogs and who knows what else. A real zoo!

And you can't prove a Mookie is a cat, either, so no arguments there!

[8D]

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!
[;)] That's a well trained dirty bird! .....Not happy until I go out and roll in the dirt prior to going to work!....Congrats on star #4!!!
I was so busy working on my acceptance speech, I totally missed it! Hmm..

Been one upped by a bird...and have a snake hot on my heels...Don't the railroads use names like - waterfall, pitter-patter, blue skies - instead they have muddy chickens, snakes, hogs and who knows what else. A real zoo!

And you can't prove a Mookie is a cat, either, so no arguments there!

[8D]

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by michaelstevens on Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:24 PM
Kenneo is correct -- the FRA's definition of a Light Rail Vehicle has everything to do with the "buffing strength". Kenneo may well also be correct about that 400 ton capacity (against deformation) figure.
As a matter of fact; NJ Transit, Bechtel and Bombardier are close to completion of a "Light Rail Transit System" which uses diesel powered multiple units, primarily on the 35 mile former (Conrail Shared Assets) Bordentown Sub., between Camden and Trenton New Jersey.
The FRA has stipulated that there must not be any possibility of LRV's ever occupying the same tracks as freight trains (locomotives or cars), to which end; LIght Rail operations will be restricted to between 06:00 and 24:00, then freight trains (by trackage rights) will only be allowed during the remaining night-time hours.
What may also be of interest is that embedded tracks have also been constructed from the South end of CR's Pavonia Yard, thru Camden's city streets, to the Delaware River waterfront, enabling the LRV passengers to interchange with the PATCO subway (to Philadelphia) or even river taxis etc.
British Mike in Philly
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Posted by michaelstevens on Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:24 PM
Kenneo is correct -- the FRA's definition of a Light Rail Vehicle has everything to do with the "buffing strength". Kenneo may well also be correct about that 400 ton capacity (against deformation) figure.
As a matter of fact; NJ Transit, Bechtel and Bombardier are close to completion of a "Light Rail Transit System" which uses diesel powered multiple units, primarily on the 35 mile former (Conrail Shared Assets) Bordentown Sub., between Camden and Trenton New Jersey.
The FRA has stipulated that there must not be any possibility of LRV's ever occupying the same tracks as freight trains (locomotives or cars), to which end; LIght Rail operations will be restricted to between 06:00 and 24:00, then freight trains (by trackage rights) will only be allowed during the remaining night-time hours.
What may also be of interest is that embedded tracks have also been constructed from the South end of CR's Pavonia Yard, thru Camden's city streets, to the Delaware River waterfront, enabling the LRV passengers to interchange with the PATCO subway (to Philadelphia) or even river taxis etc.
British Mike in Philly
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Posted by TH&B on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:40 AM
Diesel RTs are available and do exist. Ottawa has a diesel RT service on ex CPR single track. It was apparently very cheap to set up and operate. The trains themselves are "off the shelf" by Bomardier.
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Posted by TH&B on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:40 AM
Diesel RTs are available and do exist. Ottawa has a diesel RT service on ex CPR single track. It was apparently very cheap to set up and operate. The trains themselves are "off the shelf" by Bomardier.
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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!
[;)] That's a well trained dirty bird! .....Not happy until I go out and roll in the dirt prior to going to work!....Congrats on star #4!!!
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!
[;)] That's a well trained dirty bird! .....Not happy until I go out and roll in the dirt prior to going to work!....Congrats on star #4!!!
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Kathi Kube on Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:52 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Could it be too much to ask if Kalmbach would consider putting the magazine (TRAINS) on the Site (subscription at regular rates open to paid subscribers only) - photos and everything, and then get it on a CD or two once a year (if we want it)? I don't like throwing the magazines away since I really like the stuff that is in them (and the $$price$$), but I have no room to keep them. I used to subscribe for a good many years, but had to stop because of the space reason.


I'm afraid that's pretty far outside my realm of influence, but I'll pass your idea on to the folks who do work in that area. Thanks for posing the question.

Kathi
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Posted by Kathi Kube on Thursday, September 11, 2003 8:52 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

Could it be too much to ask if Kalmbach would consider putting the magazine (TRAINS) on the Site (subscription at regular rates open to paid subscribers only) - photos and everything, and then get it on a CD or two once a year (if we want it)? I don't like throwing the magazines away since I really like the stuff that is in them (and the $$price$$), but I have no room to keep them. I used to subscribe for a good many years, but had to stop because of the space reason.


I'm afraid that's pretty far outside my realm of influence, but I'll pass your idea on to the folks who do work in that area. Thanks for posing the question.

Kathi
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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard
BANANA= Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything (really beware of the "green" ones! - totally uninformed, unreasonable, illogical nutcase ones)
RDC= Rail Diesel Car
DMU=Diesel Multiple Unit
LRT= Light Rail Transportation
[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!

La Moo

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard
BANANA= Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything (really beware of the "green" ones! - totally uninformed, unreasonable, illogical nutcase ones)
RDC= Rail Diesel Car
DMU=Diesel Multiple Unit
LRT= Light Rail Transportation
[:)] Dirty Bird: Thank you! I would have asked had you not explained - you know that!

La Moo

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by kenneo on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:44 PM
Kathi -- The cars have already been bought for the Beaverton-Tigard section if it should operate. They are the three RDC's that the State of Oregon purchased from the PGE (drat, excuse me, BCOL). Nothing is scheduled that I know of to operate there until after the Lewis & Clark Bicentenial now inits first year. There are two more RDC's operating on the POTB along the beach between Garibaldi and Wheeler.

It's good to hear from the magazine people on the Forums here. I know that if you contribute too much it can get to be like you are the leader and the rest should follow. Still and all; establishment and such. Could it be too much to ask if Kalmbach would consider putting the magazine (TRAINS) on the Site (subscription at regular rates open to paid subscribers only) - photos and everything, and then get it on a CD or two once a year (if we want it)? I don't like throwing the magazines away since I really like the stuff that is in them (and the $$price$$), but I have no room to keep them. I used to subscribe for a good many years, but had to stop because of the space reason.

Mudchicken -- You are correct about starting cheap and going from there. I mentioned the TALGO earlier, because, I think, there is a set or two just sitting around that were made for the LA-LV service that has never gotten going. That should be cheaper than new Radar Motors. RDC's would be even cheaper. It's not the speed that is needed here for a 60 mile trip.

The basic reason for wires normally going up for these light rail projects is that all of the manufactures are geared to make them and as a result they tend to be "off the shelf" and the diesel stuff tends to be special order. The reason the wires are so prevelent, is that when the commuter lines of the east finely had it up beyond here with the problems and costs of operating steam on commuter trains and the irritations of turning and servicing them at the routes end points, the only thing that was available was the electric powered multiple unit passanger coach. Diesels were 50 years away, yet. An RDC tied to either wires or third-rail. The RDC and Push-Pull are really adaptions of EMU's. Not trying to sell you on wires, just trying to explain.

Mookie -- If they should start your Lincoln-Omaha service, I would think they would be wise to buy used RDC's and go from there. With three or four cars, starting about 6 AM or so, at least from one end (Lincoln?), you could get a round trip every 2.5 hours which means 4 trains, one crew, three cars and probably one tank of gas. I'm sure the Q has room for that amount of traffic. Double those figures to start at each end.

The other part of the plan that would need to be in place would be several city bus lines starting at the depot and going out to where the traffic goes (or comes from). Leaving, of course, upon train arrival and returning ahead of train departure. Connections, you see. For instance, from Park and Rides in Lincoln and Omaha to the train, train to Omaha or Lincoln, and bus to the folks destinations or connections with other bus lines or Park and Rides in Omaha or Lincoln.
Eric
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Posted by kenneo on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:44 PM
Kathi -- The cars have already been bought for the Beaverton-Tigard section if it should operate. They are the three RDC's that the State of Oregon purchased from the PGE (drat, excuse me, BCOL). Nothing is scheduled that I know of to operate there until after the Lewis & Clark Bicentenial now inits first year. There are two more RDC's operating on the POTB along the beach between Garibaldi and Wheeler.

It's good to hear from the magazine people on the Forums here. I know that if you contribute too much it can get to be like you are the leader and the rest should follow. Still and all; establishment and such. Could it be too much to ask if Kalmbach would consider putting the magazine (TRAINS) on the Site (subscription at regular rates open to paid subscribers only) - photos and everything, and then get it on a CD or two once a year (if we want it)? I don't like throwing the magazines away since I really like the stuff that is in them (and the $$price$$), but I have no room to keep them. I used to subscribe for a good many years, but had to stop because of the space reason.

Mudchicken -- You are correct about starting cheap and going from there. I mentioned the TALGO earlier, because, I think, there is a set or two just sitting around that were made for the LA-LV service that has never gotten going. That should be cheaper than new Radar Motors. RDC's would be even cheaper. It's not the speed that is needed here for a 60 mile trip.

The basic reason for wires normally going up for these light rail projects is that all of the manufactures are geared to make them and as a result they tend to be "off the shelf" and the diesel stuff tends to be special order. The reason the wires are so prevelent, is that when the commuter lines of the east finely had it up beyond here with the problems and costs of operating steam on commuter trains and the irritations of turning and servicing them at the routes end points, the only thing that was available was the electric powered multiple unit passanger coach. Diesels were 50 years away, yet. An RDC tied to either wires or third-rail. The RDC and Push-Pull are really adaptions of EMU's. Not trying to sell you on wires, just trying to explain.

Mookie -- If they should start your Lincoln-Omaha service, I would think they would be wise to buy used RDC's and go from there. With three or four cars, starting about 6 AM or so, at least from one end (Lincoln?), you could get a round trip every 2.5 hours which means 4 trains, one crew, three cars and probably one tank of gas. I'm sure the Q has room for that amount of traffic. Double those figures to start at each end.

The other part of the plan that would need to be in place would be several city bus lines starting at the depot and going out to where the traffic goes (or comes from). Leaving, of course, upon train arrival and returning ahead of train departure. Connections, you see. For instance, from Park and Rides in Lincoln and Omaha to the train, train to Omaha or Lincoln, and bus to the folks destinations or connections with other bus lines or Park and Rides in Omaha or Lincoln.
Eric
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Posted by Kathi Kube on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:48 PM
Mudchicken, I think you're my new best buddy.

I'd never heard of bananas, but they sure are, aren't they? Yikes! There was a lot of chatter in the Milwaukee area a few years ago considering LRT. The anti-LRT hoard came out in force and the idea was dropped. In truth, we don't have bad enough traffic problems to warrant an additional tax—yet. But that's more an issue of city planners doing such a poor job in Milwaukee that too many companies left downtown for the suburbs—or left the state altogether. We'll have to see what the future holds around here.

I just realized you're in the Denver-La Junta area. There's been talk around there about relocating a freight line and putting commuter rail in that corridor. Do you know anything more about that?

As for the company leasing out RDCs, I'd not heard about that either. But it does sound very interesting. Could you email me off-line and provide some more details? (kkube@trains.com) I'd appreciate it!

Take care!
Kathi

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