Which Class 1 Railroad is your Favorite?

[David3]

Between UP, BNSF, CSX, and NS which one of these is your favorite and why?

My favorite is probably UP because of their Building America slogan, and when you watch them they just don't haul intermodal like BNSF does, they haul everything you can think of! It was still hard for me to decide which one is my favorite because I like all railroads. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[David3]

Between UP, BNSF, CSX, and NS which one of these is your favorite and why?

My favorite is probably UP because of their Building America slogan, and when you watch them they just don't haul intermodal like BNSF does, they haul everything you can think of! It was still hard for me to decide which one is my favorite because I like all railroads. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Back in 1975 or even 1980 there would have been many choices. After that the choices became fewer and fewer. I have always liked Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, New York Central, Southern, Seaboard, Atlantic Coast Lines, Missouri Pacific, Frisco, Cotton Belt, Katy and many, many others. [:)] And even some of the "then " fallen flags like Nickle Plate and Wabash.

Today we have such little choice. [|)] I have never been a fan of Norfork Western. Therefore, NS is out of the running. I have nothing against CSXT, and even liked B&O, C&O, L&N, and many of their other lines. However, it just doesn't make my favorite list. BN is out of the running but I won't tell you why. If Santa Fe was around it would be in the top 3 of my list. But we all know it is now aligned with BN [:(] . I live in North Little Rock (former Mo Pac area) and see UP trains on a daily basis (BN does some switching here on trackage rights). There is really only one choice. That is Union Pacific.

And just think the UP SP merger was a merger of equals. They used Union of Union Pacific for their new first name, and Pacific of Southern Pacific for their second name thus creating the new railroad Union Pacific. (And if you believe all of that the swamp land I have for sale in Arizona is now reduced to $2,497 an acre. Just let me know how many acres you want.)

Well that is the way I see it . . . and that's the truth. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Back in 1975 or even 1980 there would have been many choices. After that the choices became fewer and fewer. I have always liked Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Santa Fe, New York Central, Southern, Seaboard, Atlantic Coast Lines, Missouri Pacific, Frisco, Cotton Belt, Katy and many, many others. [:)] And even some of the "then " fallen flags like Nickle Plate and Wabash.

Today we have such little choice. [|)] I have never been a fan of Norfork Western. Therefore, NS is out of the running. I have nothing against CSXT, and even liked B&O, C&O, L&N, and many of their other lines. However, it just doesn't make my favorite list. BN is out of the running but I won't tell you why. If Santa Fe was around it would be in the top 3 of my list. But we all know it is now aligned with BN [:(] . I live in North Little Rock (former Mo Pac area) and see UP trains on a daily basis (BN does some switching here on trackage rights). There is really only one choice. That is Union Pacific.

And just think the UP SP merger was a merger of equals. They used Union of Union Pacific for their new first name, and Pacific of Southern Pacific for their second name thus creating the new railroad Union Pacific. (And if you believe all of that the swamp land I have for sale in Arizona is now reduced to $2,497 an acre. Just let me know how many acres you want.)

Well that is the way I see it . . . and that's the truth. [;)]

[JoeKoh]

Fan of the B&O I just hate seeing what CSX has done to her.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

Fan of the B&O I just hate seeing what CSX has done to her.
stay safe
joe

[Anonymous]

KCS. Still small enough to be able to fina a person to talk to.

LC

[Anonymous]

KCS. Still small enough to be able to fina a person to talk to.

LC

[Willy2]

Mine is BNSF.

Willy

[Willy2]

Mine is BNSF.

Willy

[Anonymous]

Probably CSX, only because they service the former PRR nee Camden & Amboy lines I live near in New Jersey

[Anonymous]

Probably CSX, only because they service the former PRR nee Camden & Amboy lines I live near in New Jersey

[CP5415]

My favourite class 1 RR is the Canadian Pacific as i grew up railfanning it with my dad.

Gordon

[CP5415]

My favourite class 1 RR is the Canadian Pacific as i grew up railfanning it with my dad.

Gordon

[Nora]

What delineates a Class 1 railroad from...well, whatever other classes there are?

--Nora

[Nora]

What delineates a Class 1 railroad from...well, whatever other classes there are?

--Nora

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

What delineates a Class 1 railroad from...well, whatever other classes there are?

--Nora

Hi Nora, your answer is $ $ $ . It all comes down to how how much money they bring in. I don't know what the amounts are now. I am sure Ed can tell us or maybe one of the other railroaders. But at least this is a start on your answer. [:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

What delineates a Class 1 railroad from...well, whatever other classes there are?

--Nora

Hi Nora, your answer is $ $ $ . It all comes down to how how much money they bring in. I don't know what the amounts are now. I am sure Ed can tell us or maybe one of the other railroaders. But at least this is a start on your answer. [:)]

[Anonymous]

BNSF, if I had to chose. Sure, they swallowed ATSF, but... nice paint scheme.

Maybe it's just me but I like to think I'm going through an experience much the same as young railfans, say, 50 years ago... you know who you are. You were born in the 40s or 50s, and by the time you were old enough to reeeally appreciate trains... steam was on the way out! You came in at the end of the party, and it wasn't long before you were hard-pressed to find steam in regular service to photograph.

I was born in 1985... it really hit home around 1994 when I heard that UP was going to swallow up C&NW, my favorite, the yellow-and-green. And since then I saw the loss of the Santa Fe... Southern Pacfic... Illinois Central... it occurred to me that we're facing a future where, someday, one giant conglomerate transcon will handle all the freight, and passenger will be a distant memory. I came in at the end of the party, and I don't think I can enjoy mainline railroads quite the same as the older folks could back in the day. Sure, any train is a good train, and =nearly= all roads are good roads, but if I want to see true variety it looks like I'm going to have to hunt down regionals and short-lines!

Imagine, someday: NSUPCSXBNSF.

[Anonymous]

BNSF, if I had to chose. Sure, they swallowed ATSF, but... nice paint scheme.

Maybe it's just me but I like to think I'm going through an experience much the same as young railfans, say, 50 years ago... you know who you are. You were born in the 40s or 50s, and by the time you were old enough to reeeally appreciate trains... steam was on the way out! You came in at the end of the party, and it wasn't long before you were hard-pressed to find steam in regular service to photograph.

I was born in 1985... it really hit home around 1994 when I heard that UP was going to swallow up C&NW, my favorite, the yellow-and-green. And since then I saw the loss of the Santa Fe... Southern Pacfic... Illinois Central... it occurred to me that we're facing a future where, someday, one giant conglomerate transcon will handle all the freight, and passenger will be a distant memory. I came in at the end of the party, and I don't think I can enjoy mainline railroads quite the same as the older folks could back in the day. Sure, any train is a good train, and =nearly= all roads are good roads, but if I want to see true variety it looks like I'm going to have to hunt down regionals and short-lines!

Imagine, someday: NSUPCSXBNSF.

[edblysard]

Hi Jim and Nora,
Class 1, 2 and 3 are different buy the number of employees and man hours worked.
I dont have the formula on hand, but when I go back to work I will see if I can find it for you.
Class 1s are going to be the heavy hitters, UP, BNSF, CSX, NS, and KCS to name a few.
An example of a class 2 would be a regional or short line with X number of employees/hours worked like Wisconson Central, or the Montana Rail Link.
Some comuter lines fall into this catagory.
Class 3 would be terminal roads and local, and roads like Chicago Belt, the PTRA(my railroad) and the old Houston Belt and Terminal.
You may check the index here at Trains.com, they did a story about the different class distinctions.

To answer the question about which class 1 is my favorite.
It would have been Santa Fe, except now they are the Brand New Santa Fe, or BNSF.
Let you in on a little secret, BNSF is really Santa Fe with a lot more trackage. The guys who run BN were smart, they hired or kept the top quality managers from Santa Fe, and put them in key positions when they created BNSF.

But for railroading the way it should be, Uncle Pete is the top dog.

UP has steadly been increasing their trackage, and their business.
These guys are very serious about having a part of everything west of the mississippi, and they are working east .
They move a lot of trains, and their only concern is to move more of them, as soon as they can.
Look back to when they took over the Katy and the MoPac.
They bought them because they complimented their exsisting structure, increased business, with out overextending the rest of the company.

By the way, railroading is only one of the parent company's business, although it is the major concern of Union Pacific Industries.

If they had really wanted Santa Fe, they would have taken them, they have the cash, and the people.
But all they really would have been buying is a super intermodel service, and a lot of duplicate trackage.

SP and UP were, at one time, the same company, operating two different railroads, but the ICC ordered the SP to divest itself of UP, they felt it was a legal monopoly.
Lastly, how often did you hear of the SP, Santa Fe, Rio Grand, Rock Island, New York Central, Boston and Maine, all the other railroads going broke?
All at some time made the headlines in the last two or three decades.with their financial problems.
Except UP.
Besides the SP/UP service meltdown, when have you ever heard of UP having servere financial trouble?
Within the next ten years, you will only have two major railroads west of the mississippi, BNSF, and UP.
One of them is going to have to buy KCS, way too much money is going to be coming from Mexico, and a lot will be going back into that country to let KCS stay a lone wolf.
All the railroads east of the big muddy will bring their traffic to three or four super yards, and hand off the cars to one of these two for the rest of the trip west.
UP has already discovered that the big money is in getting the freight from big city to big city, Chicago to LA, then handing it off to belt lines or regional and terminal roads to deliver to the customer, instead of messing with running their own small trains and local switch crews.
Keep your eye on Uncle Pete, if they are not yet, they soon will be the benchmark other railroads will have to live up to.
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

[edblysard]

Hi Jim and Nora,
Class 1, 2 and 3 are different buy the number of employees and man hours worked.
I dont have the formula on hand, but when I go back to work I will see if I can find it for you.
Class 1s are going to be the heavy hitters, UP, BNSF, CSX, NS, and KCS to name a few.
An example of a class 2 would be a regional or short line with X number of employees/hours worked like Wisconson Central, or the Montana Rail Link.
Some comuter lines fall into this catagory.
Class 3 would be terminal roads and local, and roads like Chicago Belt, the PTRA(my railroad) and the old Houston Belt and Terminal.
You may check the index here at Trains.com, they did a story about the different class distinctions.

To answer the question about which class 1 is my favorite.
It would have been Santa Fe, except now they are the Brand New Santa Fe, or BNSF.
Let you in on a little secret, BNSF is really Santa Fe with a lot more trackage. The guys who run BN were smart, they hired or kept the top quality managers from Santa Fe, and put them in key positions when they created BNSF.

But for railroading the way it should be, Uncle Pete is the top dog.

UP has steadly been increasing their trackage, and their business.
These guys are very serious about having a part of everything west of the mississippi, and they are working east .
They move a lot of trains, and their only concern is to move more of them, as soon as they can.
Look back to when they took over the Katy and the MoPac.
They bought them because they complimented their exsisting structure, increased business, with out overextending the rest of the company.

By the way, railroading is only one of the parent company's business, although it is the major concern of Union Pacific Industries.

If they had really wanted Santa Fe, they would have taken them, they have the cash, and the people.
But all they really would have been buying is a super intermodel service, and a lot of duplicate trackage.

SP and UP were, at one time, the same company, operating two different railroads, but the ICC ordered the SP to divest itself of UP, they felt it was a legal monopoly.
Lastly, how often did you hear of the SP, Santa Fe, Rio Grand, Rock Island, New York Central, Boston and Maine, all the other railroads going broke?
All at some time made the headlines in the last two or three decades.with their financial problems.
Except UP.
Besides the SP/UP service meltdown, when have you ever heard of UP having servere financial trouble?
Within the next ten years, you will only have two major railroads west of the mississippi, BNSF, and UP.
One of them is going to have to buy KCS, way too much money is going to be coming from Mexico, and a lot will be going back into that country to let KCS stay a lone wolf.
All the railroads east of the big muddy will bring their traffic to three or four super yards, and hand off the cars to one of these two for the rest of the trip west.
UP has already discovered that the big money is in getting the freight from big city to big city, Chicago to LA, then handing it off to belt lines or regional and terminal roads to deliver to the customer, instead of messing with running their own small trains and local switch crews.
Keep your eye on Uncle Pete, if they are not yet, they soon will be the benchmark other railroads will have to live up to.
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D]

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed, years ago the railroad classes were determined by how many million of dollars they made each year. When did this change?

I have heard the comment you made about the two rr west of the Mississippi. But the way I heard it was that in time there would only be 2 major railroads in the whole country. I heard this comment about 10 years ago. And as UP swallowed up C & NW I could see it happening. Then the whole mess with BN and SF on one side and UP and SP on the other. I am not a fan of megamergers. (Of course I am looking at this from the point of view of a railfan and not the view from the economic side--which of course rules.) But now the question is which railroad will take NS and which will take CSXT? As far as KCS goes I believe it would "fit" better into BNSF because UP took the KATY and MO Pac. There would be some duplication of lines in several states. However, KCS took over Mid South (wasn't that the name) and UP might very well want those routes. Of course we are talking what if and might be.
Only time will tell the answer to these questions. One other thing to think about would be the Canadian railroads. They might want KCS. They already have IC.
I have always heard the CP was weak financially. I am not sure about CN, but taking over IC sure couldn't hurt them financially. It adds alot to their base. Well I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed, years ago the railroad classes were determined by how many million of dollars they made each year. When did this change?

I have heard the comment you made about the two rr west of the Mississippi. But the way I heard it was that in time there would only be 2 major railroads in the whole country. I heard this comment about 10 years ago. And as UP swallowed up C & NW I could see it happening. Then the whole mess with BN and SF on one side and UP and SP on the other. I am not a fan of megamergers. (Of course I am looking at this from the point of view of a railfan and not the view from the economic side--which of course rules.) But now the question is which railroad will take NS and which will take CSXT? As far as KCS goes I believe it would "fit" better into BNSF because UP took the KATY and MO Pac. There would be some duplication of lines in several states. However, KCS took over Mid South (wasn't that the name) and UP might very well want those routes. Of course we are talking what if and might be.
Only time will tell the answer to these questions. One other thing to think about would be the Canadian railroads. They might want KCS. They already have IC.
I have always heard the CP was weak financially. I am not sure about CN, but taking over IC sure couldn't hurt them financially. It adds alot to their base. Well I guess we will have to wait and see.

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Cant really tell you about the Canadians, but I can tell you about what goes on down here.
At one time, over 30 railroads entered Houston, now there is ony three, UP, BNSF and TexMex(KCS).
If you read Trains magazine, they had a story on KSC last month, and in that story they talked about the amount of time it takes the TexMex to cross Harris county/Houston and get out of town.
Basin yard, mentioned in the story, is literally right next door to the PTRAs north yard, we have a cross over into Basin, and the TexMex picks up here, on their way.
They cross over, couple into their tracks, then back up through the same crossover into Basin, and double back to their train.
To let you in on how UP treats them, I have seen the TexMex come into our yard, and while they were here, the UP parks a light motor fouling the crossover, and sends the crew to lunch.
Which means the TexMex has to wait till UP moves the motor.
UP has also parked a light motor on the diamond at the west end of Basin, in front of the TexMex, just to slow them up.
Yes, TexMex has trackage rights, but nothing says UP has to expidite them across the sub division, which I can promise you, they dont.
Why?
Because TexMex has something UP wants, and wants bad.
A lot of the Mexican business, both ways.
With railroads, it works like this.

If you cant buy them, or they wont sell it to you at the price you want to pay, then you beat them up till they go away, or give you what you want.

Only problem is TexMex has nowhere else to go, and UP isnt going to help them one bit, instead they will do their best to make it as un profitable as they can for KSC to keep running these train, till KSC either quits, or sells UP the business.

UP has the money, the resources, and most importantly, the time to wait it out.
I am not real sure KCS has any of the above.

As for which, BNSF or UP taking NS or CSX?
I doubt either one really want them.
Its a whole different ballgame east of the mississippi.
CSX, NS and the others are designed to serve several large cities and routes, with a vastly different mix of traffic/freight to each one.
BNSF and UP are doing away with their smaller yards and local freights, in favor of the huge unit trains, and the just in time delivery of grain, coal and coke.
They are geared to run their trains from major yards to major yards across their systems.
Look at the UP grain trains we get here.
The final destination of these trains is ten miles from our north yard, and UP has trackage rights over that section of track.
Their crew could just keep on going the last ten miles, and spot the train themselves.
But UP perfers them to bring it to us, leave it in our yard, and put the crew on the outbound empty grain train asap, and get them moving out.
Why?
Because UP feels it more profitable to have the empty moving back to where it came from, to be turned around faster by that one hour, than to spent the hour spotting the train in Cargil, and pulling the empty from there.
So we spot and pull three and four of the grain trains every 8 hour shift for them.
This allows UP to plan on the empties getting to where they need to go at a certain time.
Ask any UP employee, and they will tell you that the grain and coal trains, although not the most superior trains on the system, are not held up anywhere if it can be helped.
UP wants these train back out in the boonies getting filled up as fast as they can.

None of the mergers UP has completed were due to neccesity or emergency, none were done out of the need to survive, like the NYC and Pennsy, or Santa Fe BN.
Taking the Katy, MoPac, and now SP, lets you look at part of a long term, and I mean long term business goal set 50 years ago, to be the number one railroad west of the mississippi.
UP hasnt had to worry about finiancal survival for a long time, what their main concern has been is expansion.
Heres something that might help.
Before BN and Santa Fe merged, they, along with UP, were the major member lines at the PTRA.
I loved switching out BN or Santa Fe trains, because they brought them to us blocked out, meaning all the cars for a paticular customer were in one place in the train, or in one big block.
Traditionaly, thats how railroad do it, they block, or switch out all the cars for one destination into groups for the different customers.

As an example, all the cars for Richardson steel will be in a group in a BN train, followed by the plastic hoppers for Phillips, the tanks for Shell Oil, so forth and so on.

On the other hand, I hate switching out a UP train, because there might be 15 Richardson steel cars in the train, but its rare to find two of them together, because UP isnt concerned about them being blocked out, all they were concerned about was that the cars were headed for the PTRA, what order they arrive in the train isnt important, the fact that they can run five trains in here that way compared to BNSFs 3 is!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Cant really tell you about the Canadians, but I can tell you about what goes on down here.
At one time, over 30 railroads entered Houston, now there is ony three, UP, BNSF and TexMex(KCS).
If you read Trains magazine, they had a story on KSC last month, and in that story they talked about the amount of time it takes the TexMex to cross Harris county/Houston and get out of town.
Basin yard, mentioned in the story, is literally right next door to the PTRAs north yard, we have a cross over into Basin, and the TexMex picks up here, on their way.
They cross over, couple into their tracks, then back up through the same crossover into Basin, and double back to their train.
To let you in on how UP treats them, I have seen the TexMex come into our yard, and while they were here, the UP parks a light motor fouling the crossover, and sends the crew to lunch.
Which means the TexMex has to wait till UP moves the motor.
UP has also parked a light motor on the diamond at the west end of Basin, in front of the TexMex, just to slow them up.
Yes, TexMex has trackage rights, but nothing says UP has to expidite them across the sub division, which I can promise you, they dont.
Why?
Because TexMex has something UP wants, and wants bad.
A lot of the Mexican business, both ways.
With railroads, it works like this.

If you cant buy them, or they wont sell it to you at the price you want to pay, then you beat them up till they go away, or give you what you want.

Only problem is TexMex has nowhere else to go, and UP isnt going to help them one bit, instead they will do their best to make it as un profitable as they can for KSC to keep running these train, till KSC either quits, or sells UP the business.

UP has the money, the resources, and most importantly, the time to wait it out.
I am not real sure KCS has any of the above.

As for which, BNSF or UP taking NS or CSX?
I doubt either one really want them.
Its a whole different ballgame east of the mississippi.
CSX, NS and the others are designed to serve several large cities and routes, with a vastly different mix of traffic/freight to each one.
BNSF and UP are doing away with their smaller yards and local freights, in favor of the huge unit trains, and the just in time delivery of grain, coal and coke.
They are geared to run their trains from major yards to major yards across their systems.
Look at the UP grain trains we get here.
The final destination of these trains is ten miles from our north yard, and UP has trackage rights over that section of track.
Their crew could just keep on going the last ten miles, and spot the train themselves.
But UP perfers them to bring it to us, leave it in our yard, and put the crew on the outbound empty grain train asap, and get them moving out.
Why?
Because UP feels it more profitable to have the empty moving back to where it came from, to be turned around faster by that one hour, than to spent the hour spotting the train in Cargil, and pulling the empty from there.
So we spot and pull three and four of the grain trains every 8 hour shift for them.
This allows UP to plan on the empties getting to where they need to go at a certain time.
Ask any UP employee, and they will tell you that the grain and coal trains, although not the most superior trains on the system, are not held up anywhere if it can be helped.
UP wants these train back out in the boonies getting filled up as fast as they can.

None of the mergers UP has completed were due to neccesity or emergency, none were done out of the need to survive, like the NYC and Pennsy, or Santa Fe BN.
Taking the Katy, MoPac, and now SP, lets you look at part of a long term, and I mean long term business goal set 50 years ago, to be the number one railroad west of the mississippi.
UP hasnt had to worry about finiancal survival for a long time, what their main concern has been is expansion.
Heres something that might help.
Before BN and Santa Fe merged, they, along with UP, were the major member lines at the PTRA.
I loved switching out BN or Santa Fe trains, because they brought them to us blocked out, meaning all the cars for a paticular customer were in one place in the train, or in one big block.
Traditionaly, thats how railroad do it, they block, or switch out all the cars for one destination into groups for the different customers.

As an example, all the cars for Richardson steel will be in a group in a BN train, followed by the plastic hoppers for Phillips, the tanks for Shell Oil, so forth and so on.

On the other hand, I hate switching out a UP train, because there might be 15 Richardson steel cars in the train, but its rare to find two of them together, because UP isnt concerned about them being blocked out, all they were concerned about was that the cars were headed for the PTRA, what order they arrive in the train isnt important, the fact that they can run five trains in here that way compared to BNSFs 3 is!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Hello fellow night owl Ed, [:)] As for the KCS you might be right. They paid and arm and two legs for the Mexico rights. So UP very well could be straving them out. [8D] As you said in an earlier post (about your buddy who had the acid shower) that's railroading.

Hello Ed, years ago the railroad classes were determined by how many million of dollars they made each year. When did this change?

[Anonymous]

Hello fellow night owl Ed, [:)] As for the KCS you might be right. They paid and arm and two legs for the Mexico rights. So UP very well could be straving them out. [8D] As you said in an earlier post (about your buddy who had the acid shower) that's railroading.

Hello Ed, years ago the railroad classes were determined by how many million of dollars they made each year. When did this change?

[David3]

[|)] Wow I guess I'm the only one who likes UP here! [:)][:)][:)]

[David3]

[|)] Wow I guess I'm the only one who likes UP here! [:)][:)][:)]